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aus+uk / uk.people.silversurfers / Burning Oxygen

SubjectAuthor
* Burning OxygenJeff Gaines
+- Burning OxygenHarry Bloomfield Esq
+* Burning OxygenAbandoned_Trolley
|`- Burning OxygenJeff Gaines
`* Burning OxygenBri.
 `* Burning OxygenIndy Jess John
  `* Burning OxygenPete C
   +- Burning OxygenRay
   `- Burning OxygenHarry Bloomfield Esq

1
Burning Oxygen

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From: jgaines_...@yahoo.co.uk (Jeff Gaines)
Newsgroups: uk.people.silversurfers
Subject: Burning Oxygen
Date: 27 Apr 2022 13:24:22 GMT
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 by: Jeff Gaines - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 13:24 UTC

Probably a question for our science teacher :-)

There has been a report that an Egypt Air flight MS804 crashed because the
pilot lit a cigarette and oxygen from a leaking mask caught alight.
Accepting there may be issues with translation I was taught that while
oxygen supported combustion it didn't burn itself.

Big discussion in a newsgroup and the Daily Mail about, essentially, what
a twat I am to say something so stupid.

Any thoughts here?

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.
(Ken Olson, president Digital Equipment, 1977)

Re: Burning Oxygen

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From: a...@harrym1byt.plus.com (Harry Bloomfield Esq)
Newsgroups: uk.people.silversurfers
Subject: Re: Burning Oxygen
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 16:11:01 +0100
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 by: Harry Bloomfield Esq - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 15:11 UTC

Jeff Gaines pretended :
> Probably a question for our science teacher :-)
>
> There has been a report that an Egypt Air flight MS804 crashed because the
> pilot lit a cigarette and oxygen from a leaking mask caught alight. Accepting
> there may be issues with translation I was taught that while oxygen supported
> combustion it didn't burn itself.
>
> Big discussion in a newsgroup and the Daily Mail about, essentially, what a
> twat I am to say something so stupid.
>
> Any thoughts here?

Same answer as in the other newsgroup.

Re: Burning Oxygen

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From: fre...@fred-smith.co.uk (Abandoned_Trolley)
Newsgroups: uk.people.silversurfers
Subject: Re: Burning Oxygen
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 16:12:11 +0100
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 by: Abandoned_Trolley - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 15:12 UTC

On 27/04/2022 14:24, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
> Probably a question for our science teacher :-)
>
> There has been a report that an Egypt Air flight MS804 crashed because
> the pilot lit a cigarette and oxygen from a leaking mask caught alight.
> Accepting there may be issues with translation I was taught that while
> oxygen supported combustion it didn't burn itself.
>
> Big discussion in a newsgroup and the Daily Mail about, essentially,
> what a twat I am to say something so stupid.
>
> Any thoughts here?
>

I think that in a public forum you shouldn’t give people the opportunity
to confirm that you are a twat.

And, mistaking the Daily Mail for a newspaper might not be too smart
either :-\

But basically ... I think you are correct, and oxygen is NOT a fuel

I have had some oxy-acetylene welding gear for decades, and always been
advised to never use any oil or grease on the brass hose fittings for
fear of combustion. Inside the pressure regulator the diaphragm is
prevented from ratting and squeaking by what appears to be some powdered
graphite lubricant - similar to that used by locksmiths. The unregulated
contents of the bottle can be pressurised up to 200 bar.

I guess that all combustible materials must have some sort of flashpoint
at which spontaneous combustion occurs, so ... for example diesel fuel
is fairly harmless at room temp, but if you drastically increase the
pressure (which ... according to Boyles Law will increase the temp) then
it’s going to go off.

That much seems fairly clear to me, but the bit that I don't know is
whether an increase in the oxygen saturation might have the same effect.
If so, then it doesn’t have to get as far spontaneous combustion if
someone is going to help it along with a cigarette lighter.

Also, its probably not relevant, but I believe that most cigarettes
contain a bit of saltpetre to keep them smouldering …

--
random signature text inserted here

Re: Burning Oxygen

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From: Bri...@Derby.invalid (Bri.)
Newsgroups: uk.people.silversurfers
Subject: Re: Burning Oxygen
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 19:05:05 +0100
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 by: Bri. - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 18:05 UTC

Jeff Gaines wrote:

> Probably a question for our science teacher :-)
>
> There has been a report that an Egypt Air flight MS804 crashed because the
> pilot lit a cigarette and oxygen from a leaking mask caught alight.
> Accepting there may be issues with translation I was taught that while
> oxygen supported combustion it didn't burn itself.
>
> Big discussion in a newsgroup and the Daily Mail about, essentially, what
> a twat I am to say something so stupid.
>
> Any thoughts here?

My schooling is similar to yours, oxygen only assists burning.
--
Bri.
(W7 Desktop)

Re: Burning Oxygen

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From: bathwatc...@OMITTHISgooglemail.com (Indy Jess John)
Newsgroups: uk.people.silversurfers
Subject: Re: Burning Oxygen
Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2022 20:03:39 +0100
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 by: Indy Jess John - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 19:03 UTC

On 27/04/2022 19:05, Bri. wrote:
> Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
>> Probably a question for our science teacher :-)
>>
>> There has been a report that an Egypt Air flight MS804 crashed because the
>> pilot lit a cigarette and oxygen from a leaking mask caught alight.
>> Accepting there may be issues with translation I was taught that while
>> oxygen supported combustion it didn't burn itself.
>>
>> Big discussion in a newsgroup and the Daily Mail about, essentially, what
>> a twat I am to say something so stupid.
>>
>> Any thoughts here?
>
> My schooling is similar to yours, oxygen only assists burning.

Mine was similar - oxygen on its own doesn't burn, but it readily
combines with other materials that do.

If the Egyptian pilot lit a cigarette in the presence of a high
concentration of oxygen then both the cigarette and whatever it was lit
with would have burned violently, using up some of the oxygen but the
oxygen itself doesn't burn.

Jim

Re: Burning Oxygen

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From: jgaines_...@yahoo.co.uk (Jeff Gaines)
Newsgroups: uk.people.silversurfers
Subject: Re: Burning Oxygen
Date: 27 Apr 2022 20:39:04 GMT
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 by: Jeff Gaines - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 20:39 UTC

On 27/04/2022 in message <t4bmgd$ukn$1@dont-email.me> Abandoned_Trolley
wrote:

>I think that in a public forum you shouldn’t give people the opportunity
>to confirm that you are a twat.

It doesn't worry me, I know what I have achieved.

>And, mistaking the Daily Mail for a newspaper might not be too smart
>either :-\

It's to balance the BBC News website :-)

>But basically ... I think you are correct, and oxygen is NOT a fuel

Thanks.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his friends for his
life.
(Jeremy Thorpe, 1962)

Re: Burning Oxygen

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 by: Pete C - Wed, 27 Apr 2022 22:15 UTC

On 27/04/2022 20:03, Indy Jess John wrote:
> On 27/04/2022 19:05, Bri. wrote:
>> Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>
>>> Probably a question for our science teacher :-)
>>>
>>> There has been a report that an Egypt Air flight MS804 crashed
>>> because the
>>> pilot lit a cigarette and oxygen from a leaking mask caught alight.
>>> Accepting there may be issues with translation I was taught that while
>>> oxygen supported combustion it didn't burn itself.
>>>
>>> Big discussion in a newsgroup and the Daily Mail about, essentially,
>>> what
>>> a twat I am to say something so stupid.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts here?
>>
>> My schooling is similar to yours, oxygen only assists burning.
>
> Mine was similar - oxygen on its own doesn't burn, but it readily
> combines with other materials that do.
>
> If the Egyptian pilot lit a cigarette in the presence of a high
> concentration of oxygen then both the cigarette and whatever it was lit
> with would have burned violently, using up some of the oxygen but the
> oxygen itself doesn't burn.
>
> Jim
>
The violent burning of the match/lighter would have caused the pilot to
drop the cigarette....catching other stuff on fire.

--
Pete C

Re: Burning Oxygen

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From: amos-jo...@outlook.com (Ray)
Newsgroups: uk.people.silversurfers
Subject: Re: Burning Oxygen
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 06:58:19 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Ray - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 06:58 UTC

On 27 Apr 2022 at 23:15:18 BST, "Pete C" <petcrow@blackberrymoon.co.uk> wrote:

> On 27/04/2022 20:03, Indy Jess John wrote:
>> On 27/04/2022 19:05, Bri. wrote:
>>> Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>
>>>> Probably a question for our science teacher :-)
>>>>
>>>> There has been a report that an Egypt Air flight MS804 crashed
>>>> because the
>>>> pilot lit a cigarette and oxygen from a leaking mask caught alight.
>>>> Accepting there may be issues with translation I was taught that while
>>>> oxygen supported combustion it didn't burn itself.
>>>>
>>>> Big discussion in a newsgroup and the Daily Mail about, essentially,
>>>> what
>>>> a twat I am to say something so stupid.
>>>>
>>>> Any thoughts here?
>>>
>>> My schooling is similar to yours, oxygen only assists burning.
>>
>> Mine was similar - oxygen on its own doesn't burn, but it readily
>> combines with other materials that do.
>>
>> If the Egyptian pilot lit a cigarette in the presence of a high
>> concentration of oxygen then both the cigarette and whatever it was lit
>> with would have burned violently, using up some of the oxygen but the
>> oxygen itself doesn't burn.
>>
>> Jim
>>
> The violent burning of the match/lighter would have caused the pilot to
> drop the cigarette....catching other stuff on fire.

More likely, drop the match/lighter. In your scenario I doubt he would have
got round to lighting the cigarette.

Now you know the real reasons why smoking is not allowed on aeroplanes.
--
A consultant is a person who borrows your watch, tells you what time it is, pockets the watch, and sends you a bill for it.

Re: Burning Oxygen

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From: a...@harrym1byt.plus.com (Harry Bloomfield Esq)
Newsgroups: uk.people.silversurfers
Subject: Re: Burning Oxygen
Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2022 08:22:49 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Harry Bloomfield Esq - Thu, 28 Apr 2022 07:22 UTC

Pete C explained :
> The violent burning of the match/lighter would have caused the pilot to drop
> the cigarette....catching other stuff on fire.

When I first heard that, I always assumed they were not permitted to
smoke in the cockpit of a commercial aircraft?

1
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