On Mon 02/01/2023 21:23, tony sayer wrote:
> In article <to4cfd$1nt6d$1@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> scribeth
> thus
>> On 23/12/2022 13:25, Woody wrote:
>>> Er, how far away is your local sub-station as that will likely be your
>>> truest earth.
>>
>>
>> Hopefully, we were told of one case of a lightning strike in a rural
>> area and a house was destroyed because the lightning found a better
>> earth path through it than that at the sub station. :-(
>
> It will go to where it likes and how it likes!..
>
> Got the old catholic church he here in Cambridge saw a strike hit that
> around halfway up!, came in almost horizontal couldn't be arsed to hit
> the spire conductor!
>
> https://goo.gl/maps/CKuUg1dxrXeSC5yf7
>
> If you look very carefully theres a sort of ridge walkway halfway up
> that carries the TX aerial for Cambridge 105 FM radio!..

Ah, we are talking about 'the caffolik' as it was always known when I
lived in Cantabria in the 70's!

On 23/12/2022 19:15, Mark Carver wrote:
> Yes, Our house has no earth bonding on any of the pipe work (water or
> gas) or a meal sink in the Utility Room. Apparently the regs don't call
> for it any more (because of the RCDs we have)

It's not necessarily anything to do with RCDs.

If there is a fault somewhere nearby and you have different bits of
metal connected to different earths (e.g. one to water pipe one to
sheath of mains cable) then you can get a nasty shock by touching the
two differently earthed bits of metal.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).

Op 22-12-2022 om 16:07 schreef Scott:
> On Thu, 22 Dec 2022 06:55:57 -0800 (PST), David Paste
> <pastedavid@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> How come my car car gets much better AM reception than my home stereo, even though I have a dedicated AM antenna arranged as well as I can, whilst the car has what I assume is a coil of wire on a ferrite rod within the metal body of the car itself.
>
> My expectations are: (1) a car radio is designed for use in a car and
> (2) the car is likely to be outdoors and not surrounded by electronic
> devices.
>

Do you have a car without electronic devices ?

Rink

On Wed, 4 Jan 2023 11:22:57 +0100, Rink
<rink.hof.haalditmaarweg@planet.nl> wrote:

>Op 22-12-2022 om 16:07 schreef Scott:
>> On Thu, 22 Dec 2022 06:55:57 -0800 (PST), David Paste
>> <pastedavid@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> How come my car car gets much better AM reception than my home stereo, even though I have a dedicated AM antenna arranged as well as I can, whilst the car has what I assume is a coil of wire on a ferrite rod within the metal body of the car itself.
>>
>> My expectations are: (1) a car radio is designed for use in a car and
>> (2) the car is likely to be outdoors and not surrounded by electronic
>> devices.
>>
>Do you have a car without electronic devices ?
>
Maybe I did not make myself clear but when I said 'a car radio is
designed for use in a car' perhaps I should have added 'and a car is
designed for use with its radio'.

On 04/01/2023 12:10, Scott wrote:
> Maybe I did not make myself clear but when I said 'a car radio is
> designed for use in a car' perhaps I should have added 'and a car is
> designed for use with its radio'.

Cars used to be metal with a longish antenna on a metal ground plane,
radios used in the home rarely have an external antenna.

Now cars tend to have a tiny antenna often mounted on plastic. I know
they are usually tuned and have amplification but you can never beat a
proper antenna.

On Wed, 4 Jan 2023 13:49:15 +0000, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:

>On 04/01/2023 12:10, Scott wrote:
>> Maybe I did not make myself clear but when I said 'a car radio is
>> designed for use in a car' perhaps I should have added 'and a car is
>> designed for use with its radio'.
>
>
>Cars used to be metal with a longish antenna on a metal ground plane,
>radios used in the home rarely have an external antenna.
>
>Now cars tend to have a tiny antenna often mounted on plastic. I know
>they are usually tuned and have amplification but you can never beat a
>proper antenna.
>
According to OP, 'How come my car car gets much better AM reception
than my home stereo, even though I have a dedicated AM antenna
arranged as well as I can, whilst the car has what I assume is a coil
of wire on a ferrite rod within the metal body of the car itself'.

Does this fit your definition of a 'tiny antenna'?

My car is a 2008 Nissan Micra with a roof mounted aerial. Do I win
the constructor's prize?

In article <tovot4$1td6p$2@dont-email.me>, Woody
<harrogate3@ntlworld.com> scribeth thus
>On Mon 02/01/2023 21:23, tony sayer wrote:
>> In article <to4cfd$1nt6d$1@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> scribeth
>> thus
>>> On 23/12/2022 13:25, Woody wrote:
>>>> Er, how far away is your local sub-station as that will likely be your
>>>> truest earth.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hopefully, we were told of one case of a lightning strike in a rural
>>> area and a house was destroyed because the lightning found a better
>>> earth path through it than that at the sub station. :-(
>>
>> It will go to where it likes and how it likes!..
>>
>> Got the old catholic church he here in Cambridge saw a strike hit that
>> around halfway up!, came in almost horizontal couldn't be arsed to hit
>> the spire conductor!
>>
>> https://goo.gl/maps/CKuUg1dxrXeSC5yf7
>>
>> If you look very carefully theres a sort of ridge walkway halfway up
>> that carries the TX aerial for Cambridge 105 FM radio!..
>
>Ah, we are talking about 'the caffolik' as it was always known when I
>lived in Cantabria in the 70's!
>
>

Yes the very same down hills road. Been there since 1888 IIRC makes a
not bad TX site had to use four aerials on each corner to get an Ommni
pattern.

It used to have the SSDAB TX there but thats now been moved to Gog
Magog and Coldhams road. TX list to be altered!..
--
Tony Sayer

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

On 04/01/2023 14:01, Scott wrote:
> According to OP, 'How come my car car gets much better AM reception
> than my home stereo, even though I have a dedicated AM antenna
> arranged as well as I can, whilst the car has what I assume is a coil
> of wire on a ferrite rod within the metal body of the car itself'.
>
> Does this fit your definition of a 'tiny antenna'?

Most seem to have small "fin" like things on the roof. Unless they are
all covert police vehicles :-)

I doubt any have a ferrite rod inside the body!

On Wed 04/01/2023 15:37, tony sayer wrote:
> In article <tovot4$1td6p$2@dont-email.me>, Woody
> <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> scribeth thus
>> On Mon 02/01/2023 21:23, tony sayer wrote:
>>> In article <to4cfd$1nt6d$1@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> scribeth
>>> thus
>>>> On 23/12/2022 13:25, Woody wrote:
>>>>> Er, how far away is your local sub-station as that will likely be your
>>>>> truest earth.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hopefully, we were told of one case of a lightning strike in a rural
>>>> area and a house was destroyed because the lightning found a better
>>>> earth path through it than that at the sub station. :-(
>>>
>>> It will go to where it likes and how it likes!..
>>>
>>> Got the old catholic church he here in Cambridge saw a strike hit that
>>> around halfway up!, came in almost horizontal couldn't be arsed to hit
>>> the spire conductor!
>>>
>>> https://goo.gl/maps/CKuUg1dxrXeSC5yf7
>>>
>>> If you look very carefully theres a sort of ridge walkway halfway up
>>> that carries the TX aerial for Cambridge 105 FM radio!..
>>
>> Ah, we are talking about 'the caffolik' as it was always known when I
>> lived in Cantabria in the 70's!
>>
>>
>
> Yes the very same down hills road. Been there since 1888 IIRC makes a
> not bad TX site had to use four aerials on each corner to get an Ommni
> pattern.
>
> It used to have the SSDAB TX there but thats now been moved to Gog
> Magog and Coldhams road. TX list to be altered!..

Could never understand why aerials were never posted on the top of the
chimney at Addenbrookes given its height both asl and agl! Then there is
the spire at St Luke's on Victoria Road which could also have been used
for the same purpose - and its on higher ground than most of the city.
Got a superb organ as well.

On Wed 04/01/2023 15:40, MB wrote:
> On 04/01/2023 14:01, Scott wrote:
>> According to OP, 'How come my car car gets much better AM reception
>> than my home stereo, even though I have a dedicated AM antenna
>> arranged as well as I can, whilst the car has what I assume is a coil
>> of wire on a ferrite rod within the metal body of the car itself'.
>>
>> Does this fit your definition of a 'tiny antenna'?
>
>
> Most seem to have small "fin" like things on the roof.  Unless they are
> all covert police vehicles :-)
>
> I doubt any have a ferrite rod inside the body!

In many cases a shark's fin is either a cellular aerial or GPS aerial
but unless it has a bee-sting as well it is rarely a radio aerial - that
may be part of the heated rear/side windows or windscreen.

There is also no tuning per se. The wire - whatever it is - will have
one or more amplifiers in it each with a preceding bandpass filter so
that each amp does the right piece of band. My Passat estate has two
sets of wires in the two rear side windows, one works on AM and DAB, and
both are used on FM through their own filters and amps.

On 04/01/2023 15:40, MB wrote:
> On 04/01/2023 14:01, Scott wrote:
>> According to OP, 'How come my car car gets much better AM reception
>> than my home stereo, even though I have a dedicated AM antenna
>> arranged as well as I can, whilst the car has what I assume is a coil
>> of wire on a ferrite rod within the metal body of the car itself'.
>>
>> Does this fit your definition of a 'tiny antenna'?
>
>
> Most seem to have small "fin" like things on the roof.  Unless they are
> all covert police vehicles :-)

normally for satnav and/or 3g/4g...

>
> I doubt any have a ferrite rod inside the body!

Many either use part of the rear window heater, or like my Merc estate
has a separate printed pattern on the rear side window

Dave

On Wednesday, 4 January 2023 at 13:49:17 UTC, MB wrote:
>
> Now cars tend to have a tiny antenna often mounted on plastic. I know
> they are usually tuned and have amplification but you can never beat a
> proper antenna.
However you can use a proper antenna to beat someone.
Bill

In article <tp47h3$2gpgp$2@dont-email.me>, Woody
<harrogate3@ntlworld.com> scribeth thus
>On Wed 04/01/2023 15:37, tony sayer wrote:
>> In article <tovot4$1td6p$2@dont-email.me>, Woody
>> <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> scribeth thus
>>> On Mon 02/01/2023 21:23, tony sayer wrote:
>>>> In article <to4cfd$1nt6d$1@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> scribeth
>>>> thus
>>>>> On 23/12/2022 13:25, Woody wrote:
>>>>>> Er, how far away is your local sub-station as that will likely be your
>>>>>> truest earth.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hopefully, we were told of one case of a lightning strike in a rural
>>>>> area and a house was destroyed because the lightning found a better
>>>>> earth path through it than that at the sub station. :-(
>>>>
>>>> It will go to where it likes and how it likes!..
>>>>
>>>> Got the old catholic church he here in Cambridge saw a strike hit that
>>>> around halfway up!, came in almost horizontal couldn't be arsed to hit
>>>> the spire conductor!
>>>>
>>>> https://goo.gl/maps/CKuUg1dxrXeSC5yf7
>>>>
>>>> If you look very carefully theres a sort of ridge walkway halfway up
>>>> that carries the TX aerial for Cambridge 105 FM radio!..
>>>
>>> Ah, we are talking about 'the caffolik' as it was always known when I
>>> lived in Cantabria in the 70's!
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Yes the very same down hills road. Been there since 1888 IIRC makes a
>> not bad TX site had to use four aerials on each corner to get an Ommni
>> pattern.
>>
>> It used to have the SSDAB TX there but thats now been moved to Gog
>> Magog and Coldhams road. TX list to be altered!..
>
>
>Could never understand why aerials were never posted on the top of the
>chimney at Addenbrookes given its height both asl and agl! Then there is
>the spire at St Luke's on Victoria Road which could also have been used
>for the same purpose - and its on higher ground than most of the city.
>Got a superb organ as well.
>
>
We did ask them sometime ago when looking for a TX site for Cambridge
105 radio but they didn't what anything up there citing H&S among other
things. Coverage plots showed it wasn't that good anyway!.

As to St Lukes the problem there is the spire itself there is a lot of
attenuation thru stonework and I rather doubt they'd like much of an
aerial visible sticking u the "lights" thats wot they call the openings
in the spire.

I suspect that its a sod to get up there too if the catholic is anything
like it just a few planks nailed to a couple of uprights with foot or
hand holds cut in them! Sod that! Theres are a couple of ladders there
now much safer!..

Some years ago when we set up the star radio TX at Ely cathedral we had
an analyser up there with a single di-pole on a long cable walking
around he walkway there was a 25 or more dB difference with the aerial
out in the open and then just inside a turret walkway! Very little
signal for rebroadcast purposes was inside the building belfry despite
it being some 140 feet above ground level!!

--
Tony Sayer

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 12:46:13 PM UTC+1, tony sayer wrote:
> In article <tp47h3$2gpgp$2...@dont-email.me>, Woody
> <harro...@ntlworld.com> scribeth thus
> >On Wed 04/01/2023 15:37, tony sayer wrote:
> >> In article <tovot4$1td6p$2...@dont-email.me>, Woody
> >> <harro...@ntlworld.com> scribeth thus
> >>> On Mon 02/01/2023 21:23, tony sayer wrote:
> >>>> In article <to4cfd$1nt6d$1...@dont-email.me>, MB <M...@nospam.net> scribeth
> >>>> thus
> >>>>> On 23/12/2022 13:25, Woody wrote:
> >>>>>> Er, how far away is your local sub-station as that will likely be your
> >>>>>> truest earth.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hopefully, we were told of one case of a lightning strike in a rural
> >>>>> area and a house was destroyed because the lightning found a better
> >>>>> earth path through it than that at the sub station. :-(
> >>>>
> >>>> It will go to where it likes and how it likes!..
> >>>>
> >>>> Got the old catholic church he here in Cambridge saw a strike hit that
> >>>> around halfway up!, came in almost horizontal couldn't be arsed to hit
> >>>> the spire conductor!
> >>>>
> >>>> https://goo.gl/maps/CKuUg1dxrXeSC5yf7
> >>>>
> >>>> If you look very carefully theres a sort of ridge walkway halfway up
> >>>> that carries the TX aerial for Cambridge 105 FM radio!..
> >>>
> >>> Ah, we are talking about 'the caffolik' as it was always known when I
> >>> lived in Cantabria in the 70's!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> Yes the very same down hills road. Been there since 1888 IIRC makes a
> >> not bad TX site had to use four aerials on each corner to get an Ommni
> >> pattern.
> >>
> >> It used to have the SSDAB TX there but thats now been moved to Gog
> >> Magog and Coldhams road. TX list to be altered!..
> >
> >
> >Could never understand why aerials were never posted on the top of the
> >chimney at Addenbrookes given its height both asl and agl! Then there is
> >the spire at St Luke's on Victoria Road which could also have been used
> >for the same purpose - and its on higher ground than most of the city.
> >Got a superb organ as well.
> >
> >
> We did ask them sometime ago when looking for a TX site for Cambridge
> 105 radio but they didn't what anything up there citing H&S among other
> things. Coverage plots showed it wasn't that good anyway!.
>
> As to St Lukes the problem there is the spire itself there is a lot of
> attenuation thru stonework and I rather doubt they'd like much of an
> aerial visible sticking u the "lights" thats wot they call the openings
> in the spire.
>
> I suspect that its a sod to get up there too if the catholic is anything
> like it just a few planks nailed to a couple of uprights with foot or
> hand holds cut in them! Sod that! Theres are a couple of ladders there
> now much safer!..
>
> Some years ago when we set up the star radio TX at Ely cathedral we had
> an analyser up there with a single di-pole on a long cable walking
> around he walkway there was a 25 or more dB difference with the aerial
> out in the open and then just inside a turret walkway! Very little
> signal for rebroadcast purposes was inside the building belfry despite
> it being some 140 feet above ground level!!
> --
> Tony Sayer
>
>
> Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.
>
> Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.
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On Friday, 6 January 2023 at 14:10:11 UTC, wrightsaerials@aol.com wrote:

> However you can use a proper antenna to beat someone.
> Bill

It's gonna cost you, Bill. Err, "them", sorry.