I had the misfortune of being caught on camera doing 57 in a 50 on the M1.
The online course to save 3 points on my licence was today.
Motorway Awareness, rather than Speed.
The usual bollocks mostly. What she did say was that the new style speed
cameras are now doing average speeds between cameras. Presumably this is
not all the time, as I was flying down the M1 in May, slowing down for
the cameras, then up to speed after passing. I was averaging a lot more
than 80.
They are now monitoring middle lane hoggers, apparently. That went live a
year ago, only in the last 3 months have NIP's gone out to the miscreants.
The cameras, supposedly, monitor both carriageways, and have a resolution
good enough to identify a driver in the opposite carriageway.
And they can detect mobile phone usage, by software which detects the
drivers position.
All possible, but it seems the Courts would be full of offenders if they
do carry out this level of surveillance.
And speed limit allowances. Counties can now set their own speed limits,
and allowances for speeders. Leics. is 10% over - 1mph. Notts is 10%
over. Derbys. is 10% +2.
'Smart' motorways are camera'd up everywhere, it is on those where you
are most likely to be caught just over the limit, and if the speed
reduction is in force, the cameras will be live for any speeding offence.
Apparently there are 200 people presenting the M/way / speed courses, and
they are recruiting more people as so many speeders are being caught.

And a gem, which I dont know whether to believe or not, if you are
stopped by the Police, they can seize your car, to get a readout from the
ECU to see what speed you were doing before they stopped you, or before a
collision. Do cars really record such data?

Will it slow me down - no. Will it make me more aware of the cameras -
yes.

On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 4:00:40 PM UTC+1, Alan wrote:
> I had the misfortune of being caught on camera doing 57 in a 50 on the M1.
> The online course to save 3 points on my licence was today.
> Motorway Awareness, rather than Speed.
> Snip drunk Friday night down the pub tales....
>
> Will it slow me down - no. Will it make me more aware of the cameras -
> yes.

About the only thing I'm wary of these days, average speed cameras.
The rest sounds possible, but probably not enforced or practical.
I imagine new clever cars/bikes that appear to be turning into computers on wheels might log certain parameters to a Black Box, but most older sheds won't have the soph fist hication.

On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 10:00:39 -0500, Alan <alan@darkroom.+.com> wrote:

>And a gem, which I dont know whether to believe or not, if you are
>stopped by the Police, they can seize your car, to get a readout from the
>ECU to see what speed you were doing before they stopped you, or before a
>collision. Do cars really record such data?

At a guess, some will, so if they really can seize the data then it
would be a case of "...if the ECU records it..."

I was told that my latest bike logs a *lot*, so that if I were to
return it for warranty work with a broken coolant pump, say, they
would know that I'd dropped it when it failed.

I think Police can already seize camera footage, so ECU logs would
really just be an extension of that.

--

-Pip

Pipl <pluscher@live.co.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 10:00:39 -0500, Alan <alan@darkroom.+.com> wrote:
>
>> And a gem, which I dont know whether to believe or not, if you are
>> stopped by the Police, they can seize your car, to get a readout from the
>> ECU to see what speed you were doing before they stopped you, or before a
>> collision. Do cars really record such data?
>
> At a guess, some will, so if they really can seize the data then it
> would be a case of "...if the ECU records it..."
>
> I was told that my latest bike logs a *lot*, so that if I were to
> return it for warranty work with a broken coolant pump, say, they
> would know that I'd dropped it when it failed.
>

IIRC Eddie had a warranty claim rejected because the manufacturer claimed
that the logs showed it had been over-revved when cold.

Pipl wrote:

> Alan wrote:
>
>> And a gem, which I dont know whether to believe or not, if you are
>> stopped by the Police, they can seize your car, to get a readout from the
>> ECU to see what speed you were doing before they stopped you, or before a
>> collision. Do cars really record such data?
>
> At a guess, some will

And yes they "can" but I doubt they'd seize it just for a speeding
roadside pull, if you'd killed someone then they might bother ...

Sounds like Mrs Speed Instructor has been told to spread FUD about what
they "can", "could" or "might" do ...

On 9/10/2021 10:32 AM, Higgins wrote:
> Pipl <pluscher@live.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 10:00:39 -0500, Alan <alan@darkroom.+.com> wrote:
>>
>>> And a gem, which I dont know whether to believe or not, if you are
>>> stopped by the Police, they can seize your car, to get a readout from the
>>> ECU to see what speed you were doing before they stopped you, or before a
>>> collision. Do cars really record such data?
>>
>> At a guess, some will, so if they really can seize the data then it
>> would be a case of "...if the ECU records it..."
>>
>> I was told that my latest bike logs a *lot*, so that if I were to
>> return it for warranty work with a broken coolant pump, say, they
>> would know that I'd dropped it when it failed.
>>
>
> IIRC Eddie had a warranty claim rejected because the manufacturer claimed
> that the logs showed it had been over-revved when cold.
>
It's about time. 1984 was 37 years ago.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

On 10/09/2021 17:36, Pipl wrote:
> At a guess, some will, so if they really can seize the data then it
> would be a case of "...if the ECU records it..."
>
> I was told that my latest bike logs a*lot*, so that if I were to
> return it for warranty work with a broken coolant pump, say, they
> would know that I'd dropped it when it failed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51466273

Apparently Discoverys log position.

JCB's boss says they directly receive logs of engine parameters from
thousands of their machines all over the world

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19Q7nAYjAJY

Alan <alan@darkroom.+.com> wrote in
news:-aqdnZNjWL6K7qb8nZ2dnUU78amdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk:

> And a gem, which I dont know whether to believe or not, if you are
> stopped by the Police, they can seize your car, to get a readout from
> the ECU to see what speed you were doing before they stopped you, or
> before a collision. Do cars really record such data?
>

It has a name: ECU Forensics. Can be used in accident investigation and
insurance fraud https://digitpol.com/ecu-forensics/

I doubt it is cheap so a constable is not going to use it to back up a
Fixed Penalty ticket.

The latest crop of BMW motorcycles make accessing such information very
easy. The bikes have a massive colour TV which can show all sorts of info
from throttle use, speeds, lean angles, braking force. The data can be
downloaded to an app so those inclined can play top trumps after they ride
their R1250GS down to Starbucks.

On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 10:43:58 -0700, Turby <xsurf@xmail.com> wrote:

>On 9/10/2021 10:32 AM, Higgins wrote:
>> Pipl <pluscher@live.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 10:00:39 -0500, Alan <alan@darkroom.+.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> And a gem, which I dont know whether to believe or not, if you are
>>>> stopped by the Police, they can seize your car, to get a readout from the
>>>> ECU to see what speed you were doing before they stopped you, or before a
>>>> collision. Do cars really record such data?
>>>
>>> At a guess, some will, so if they really can seize the data then it
>>> would be a case of "...if the ECU records it..."
>>>
>>> I was told that my latest bike logs a *lot*, so that if I were to
>>> return it for warranty work with a broken coolant pump, say, they
>>> would know that I'd dropped it when it failed.
>>>
>>
>> IIRC Eddie had a warranty claim rejected because the manufacturer claimed
>> that the logs showed it had been over-revved when cold.
>>
>It's about time. 1984 was 37 years ago.

But BB was Them watching Us because there was no choice. In reality it
is Us letting Them watch Us because it's convenient.

--

-Pip

On 10/09/2021 16:00, Alan wrote:

Wotcha

> They are now monitoring middle lane hoggers, apparently. That went live a
> year ago, only in the last 3 months have NIP's gone out to the miscreants.
> The cameras, supposedly, monitor both carriageways, and have a resolution
> good enough to identify a driver in the opposite carriageway.
> And they can detect mobile phone usage, by software which detects the
> drivers position.

Now all they need to do is find a way of catching the tailgaters.

>
> And a gem, which I dont know whether to believe or not, if you are
> stopped by the Police, they can seize your car, to get a readout from the
> ECU to see what speed you were doing before they stopped you, or before a
> collision. Do cars really record such data?

Best of luck with my B31 ( there again, exceeding motorway speeds ain't
gonna happen ).

> Will it slow me down - no. Will it make me more aware of the cameras -
> yes.
>

That's why they are called awareness courses :)

--
L.W.

On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 19:02:29 +0100, AJH <news@loampitsfarm.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 10/09/2021 17:36, Pipl wrote:
>> At a guess, some will, so if they really can seize the data then it
>> would be a case of "...if the ECU records it..."
>>
>> I was told that my latest bike logs a*lot*, so that if I were to
>> return it for warranty work with a broken coolant pump, say, they
>> would know that I'd dropped it when it failed.
>
>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51466273
>
>Apparently Discoverys log position.
>
>JCB's boss says they directly receive logs of engine parameters from
>thousands of their machines all over the world
>
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19Q7nAYjAJY

I guess it's a way of extending the service to the client - same as
RR do for their jet engines.

--

-Pip

On 9/10/2021 11:37 AM, wessie wrote:
> Alan <alan@darkroom.+.com> wrote in
> news:-aqdnZNjWL6K7qb8nZ2dnUU78amdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk:
>
>
>> And a gem, which I dont know whether to believe or not, if you are
>> stopped by the Police, they can seize your car, to get a readout from
>> the ECU to see what speed you were doing before they stopped you, or
>> before a collision. Do cars really record such data?
>>
>
> It has a name: ECU Forensics. Can be used in accident investigation and
> insurance fraud https://digitpol.com/ecu-forensics/
>
> I doubt it is cheap so a constable is not going to use it to back up a
> Fixed Penalty ticket.
>
> The latest crop of BMW motorcycles make accessing such information very
> easy. The bikes have a massive colour TV which can show all sorts of info
> from throttle use, speeds, lean angles, braking force. The data can be
> downloaded to an app so those inclined can play top trumps after they ride
> their R1250GS down to Starbucks.
>
I watched the first chapter of a new documentary last night - Connected
- Surveillance. Very interesting. It tells how companies are tracking so
much data about you in so many ways.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 23:36:54 +0100, Lone Wolf wrote:

> On 10/09/2021 16:00, Alan wrote:
>
> Wotcha
>
>
<snip>
>
> Now all they need to do is find a way of catching the tailgaters.
>
>
Local press claim thats already live on M1 J12 to J16 - doesnt look like
many drivers have heard though

On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 10:07:46 +0000, central77 wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 23:36:54 +0100, Lone Wolf wrote:
>> Now all they need to do is find a way of catching the tailgaters.

> Local press claim thats already live on M1 J12 to J16 - doesnt look like
> many drivers have heard though

(to show I was listening to some of it)
It was mentioned in the Course. IIRC, they can determine who is
tailgating, also, if too many cars are tailgating or bunching, they
automatically reduce the speed limits for a mile or so, or, until there
is enough gap between the vehicles.
Contrary to popular opinion, it is all done automatically, so you get to
a clear section of road that has a 50mph limit, the bunching has actually
cleared that section, but it is kept in place for another 5 minutes or so
to spread the traffic out. The bunching can be anything from lanes 1 and
2 slow with lorries doing 50mph, to a car braking in lane 4, then slowing
all 4 lanes down as everyone else brakes.
One thing that surprised me, (if it is true) is the average time for a
car on the hard shoulder (std. m/way, no info given on smart m/ways) to
be in a collision with another passing vehicle is 18 minutes. That seems
rather low, she was questioned about it, and it is, supposedly true. And,
again, contrary to popular opinion, deaths/injuries on smart motorways
are less than on standard m/ways, but facts do not help when someone has
died in their broken down car, they are quite clearly evil things and we
should go back to the more dangerous standard m/ways.

On 13/09/2021 17:19, Alan wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 10:07:46 +0000, central77 wrote:
>> On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 23:36:54 +0100, Lone Wolf wrote:
>
>>> Now all they need to do is find a way of catching the tailgaters.
>
>> Local press claim thats already live on M1 J12 to J16 - doesnt look like
>> many drivers have heard though
>
> (to show I was listening to some of it)
> It was mentioned in the Course. IIRC, they can determine who is
> tailgating, also, if too many cars are tailgating or bunching, they
> automatically reduce the speed limits for a mile or so, or, until there
> is enough gap between the vehicles.
> Contrary to popular opinion, it is all done automatically, so you get to

All done automatically when it's actually working...

<https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/28/smart-motorways-systems-dubbed-die-now-crashed-three-times-just/>

> a clear section of road that has a 50mph limit, the bunching has actually
> cleared that section, but it is kept in place for another 5 minutes or so
> to spread the traffic out. The bunching can be anything from lanes 1 and
> 2 slow with lorries doing 50mph, to a car braking in lane 4, then slowing
> all 4 lanes down as everyone else brakes.
> One thing that surprised me, (if it is true) is the average time for a
> car on the hard shoulder (std. m/way, no info given on smart m/ways) to
> be in a collision with another passing vehicle is 18 minutes. That seems
> rather low, she was questioned about it, and it is, supposedly true. And,
> again, contrary to popular opinion, deaths/injuries on smart motorways
> are less than on standard m/ways, but facts do not help when someone has
> died in their broken down car, they are quite clearly evil things and we
> should go back to the more dangerous standard m/ways.
>

--
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey, England

On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:19:45 -0500, Alan wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 10:07:46 +0000, central77 wrote:
>> On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 23:36:54 +0100, Lone Wolf wrote:
>
>>> Now all they need to do is find a way of catching the tailgaters.
>
>> Local press claim thats already live on M1 J12 to J16 - doesnt look
>> like many drivers have heard though
>
<snip>
> One thing that surprised me, (if it is true) is the average time for a
> car on the hard shoulder (std. m/way, no info given on smart m/ways) to
> be in a collision with another passing vehicle is 18 minutes. That seems
> rather low, she was questioned about it, and it is, supposedly true.

Certainly seems odd, Ive spent way longer than that and survived! Was
stopping at an angle ie 'not exactly parallel' to the road mentioned?
I've heard that, optically, people are more likely to register a vehicle
as stopped if it isnt neatly lined up

central77 <central77nospam@fastmail.fm> wrote in news:WB_%I.206380
$c0G7.103920@usenetxs.com:

> On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 11:19:45 -0500, Alan wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 10:07:46 +0000, central77 wrote:
>>> On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 23:36:54 +0100, Lone Wolf wrote:
>>
>>>> Now all they need to do is find a way of catching the tailgaters.
>>
>>> Local press claim thats already live on M1 J12 to J16 - doesnt look
>>> like many drivers have heard though
>>
> <snip>
>> One thing that surprised me, (if it is true) is the average time for a
>> car on the hard shoulder (std. m/way, no info given on smart m/ways) to
>> be in a collision with another passing vehicle is 18 minutes. That seems
>> rather low, she was questioned about it, and it is, supposedly true.
>
> Certainly seems odd, Ive spent way longer than that and survived! Was
> stopping at an angle ie 'not exactly parallel' to the road mentioned?
> I've heard that, optically, people are more likely to register a vehicle
> as stopped if it isnt neatly lined up

the other thing if the vehicle is turned towards the side of the road is
that a shunt from the rear might punt you clear into the drainage ditch,
rather than you getting shunted down the road or the other vehicle bouncing
across into the other lanes.

On 14/09/2021 11:14, central77 wrote:
> Was
> stopping at an angle ie 'not exactly parallel' to the road mentioned?
> I've heard that, optically, people are more likely to register a vehicle
> as stopped if it isnt neatly lined up

Now that's a thing I would never have thought of but may well make a lot
of sense.

On 10/09/2021 18:32, Higgins wrote:
> Pipl <pluscher@live.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> I was told that my latest bike logs a *lot*, so that if I were to
>> return it for warranty work with a broken coolant pump, say, they
>> would know that I'd dropped it when it failed.
>
> IIRC Eddie had a warranty claim rejected because the manufacturer claimed
> that the logs showed it had been over-revved when cold.

Yeah, it counts the number of times it's exceeded the rev limiter, when
above and below normal operating temperature, and that's stored permanently.

It was outside of warranty, and I definitely hadn't ever done that. I
think they were spurious errors logged when I was having battery issues.
It also used to come up with other (temporary and non-existent) errors
on the dashboard.

Computers, eh?

--
Eddie eddie@deguello.org

On 15/09/2021 11:51, Eddie wrote:
> On 10/09/2021 18:32, Higgins wrote:
>> Pipl <pluscher@live.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> I was told that my latest bike logs a *lot*, so that if I were to
>>> return it for warranty work with a broken coolant pump, say, they
>>> would know that I'd dropped it when it failed.
>>
>> IIRC Eddie had a warranty claim rejected because the manufacturer claimed
>> that the logs showed it had been over-revved when cold.
>
> Yeah, it counts the number of times it's exceeded the rev limiter, when
> above and below normal operating temperature, and that's stored
> permanently.
>
> It was outside of warranty, and I definitely hadn't ever done that. I
> think they were spurious errors logged when I was having battery issues.
> It also used to come up with other (temporary and non-existent) errors
> on the dashboard.
>
> Programmers, eh?
>

I've fixed that for you.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
https://the-ytc1-shed.blogspot.com/ Deprected(http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/)
There *is* an alternative! https://www.libreoffice.org/

On 18/09/2021 18:36, YTC#1 wrote:
> On 15/09/2021 11:51, Eddie wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, it counts the number of times it's exceeded the rev limiter,
>> when above and below normal operating temperature, and that's stored
>> permanently.
>>
>> It was outside of warranty, and I definitely hadn't ever done that. I
>> think they were spurious errors logged when I was having battery
>> issues. It also used to come up with other (temporary and
>> non-existent) errors on the dashboard.
>>
>> Programmers, eh?
>
> I've fixed that for you.

Oi. That's probably a hardware issue, not software.

--
Eddie eddie@deguello.org

On 19/09/2021 12:59, Eddie wrote:
> On 18/09/2021 18:36, YTC#1 wrote:
>> On 15/09/2021 11:51, Eddie wrote:
>>>
>>> Yeah, it counts the number of times it's exceeded the rev limiter,
>>> when above and below normal operating temperature, and that's stored
>>> permanently.
>>>
>>> It was outside of warranty, and I definitely hadn't ever done that. I
>>> think they were spurious errors logged when I was having battery
>>> issues. It also used to come up with other (temporary and
>>> non-existent) errors on the dashboard.
>>>
>>> Programmers, eh?
>>
>> I've fixed that for you.
>
> Oi. That's probably a hardware issue, not software.
>

hardware needs programming as well :-)

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
https://the-ytc1-shed.blogspot.com/ Deprected(http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/)
There *is* an alternative! https://www.libreoffice.org/