Hi,

see vid for one of the biggest reasons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU87SH5e0eI

TSMC make 92% of all high tech chips used today.
Be a massive prize for China to get control over TSMC.
Also, most of the machines essential to making them come from the USA.

Q:

what do countries being invaded do to disincentive their enemy?

....... Phil

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote

> see vid for one of the biggest reasons.

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GU87SH5e0eI

Its actually about that fool Xi deciding to fuck them over.

> TSMC make 92% of all high tech chips used today.
> Be a massive prize for China to get control over TSMC.
> Also, most of the machines essential to making them come from the USA.

> Q:

> what do countries being invaded do to disincentive their enemy?

Lots of military hardware and getting the yanks to fuck over anyone trying
it.

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> TSMC make 92% of all high tech chips used today.
> Be a massive prize for China to get control over TSMC.
> Also, most of the machines essential to making them come from the
> USA.

At the same time though they're developing their own x86_64 SoCs
(CPU+GPU etc. in one) and are currently reaching the capabilities
of current low-end western models.

But many say that x86-based CPUs are on the way out now anyway. ARM
China recently went independent from it's parent company and plans
to continue to develop its own ARM CPU architectures separately, so
that covers the likely alternative platform of the future.

So for getting away from their domestic reliance on TSMC and US
semi companies they're definately working on more peaceful (unless
you're an ARM exec.) options as well.

If they invaded they'd have to be pretty clever to do it quick
enough that the TSMC equipment couldn't be moved out or destroyed
anyway. They'd probably just achieve a temporary disruption to
global chip supplies.

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Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
=======================

** Q: Do you read posts at all ??

>
> > TSMC make 92% of all high tech chips used today.
> > Be a massive prize for China to get control over TSMC.
> > Also, most of the machines essential to making them come from the
> > USA.
>
> At the same time though they're developing their own x86_64 SoCs
> (CPU+GPU etc. in one) and are currently reaching the capabilities
> of current low-end western models.
>

** Who is "they".

> But many say that x86-based CPUs are on the way out now anyway. ARM
> China recently went independent from it's parent company and plans
> to continue to develop its own ARM CPU architectures separately, so
> that covers the likely alternative platform of the future.

** Yawnnnnn.....

> So for getting away from their domestic reliance on TSMC and US
> semi companies they're definately working on more peaceful (unless
> you're an ARM exec.) options as well.

** ???

> If they invaded they'd have to be pretty clever to do it quick
> enough that the TSMC equipment couldn't be moved out or destroyed
> anyway.

** OK - so now "they" = China.

>They'd probably just achieve a temporary disruption to
> global chip supplies.

** If Taiwan carries out a "scorched earth" policy - China gains nothing by invading.

China lacks the means to make the world's most valuable and wanted computer chips even for their own production.

...... Phil

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
> Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> =======================
>
>> If they invaded they'd have to be pretty clever to do it quick
>> enough that the TSMC equipment couldn't be moved out or destroyed
>> anyway.
>
> ** OK - so now "they" = China.
>
>>They'd probably just achieve a temporary disruption to
>> global chip supplies.
>
> ** If Taiwan carries out a "scorched earth" policy - China
> gains nothing by invading.

Yeah, so it's not "Why China wants Taiwan back".

> China lacks the means to make the world's most valuable

Yes.

> and wanted

No.

> computer chips even for their own production.

Most such computer chips are just for running office PCs, and
China has recently succeeded in making chips able to to that.
Their latest KaiXian KX-6000 model has fine performance for
that application.

The Chinese government is working to have all state-owned
computers based on domestic technology by 2022:
https://www.eenewsanalog.com/news/chinese-x86-firm-set-benefit-domestic-supply-mandate
(there seems to be a mistake saying 2020 in the first sentence of
that article)

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Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
=======================
>
> >> If they invaded they'd have to be pretty clever to do it quick
> >> enough that the TSMC equipment couldn't be moved out or destroyed
> >> anyway.
> >
> > ** OK - so now "they" = China.
> >
> >>They'd probably just achieve a temporary disruption to
> >> global chip supplies.
> >
> > ** If Taiwan carries out a "scorched earth" policy - China
> > gains nothing by invading.
>
> Yeah, so it's not "Why China wants Taiwan back".

** That does not follow in any way.

> > China lacks the means to make the world's most valuable
> Yes.
>
> > and wanted
>
> No.
> > computer chips even for their own production.

> Most such computer chips are just for running office PCs,

** Not one tiny bit true.

Smartphones, privately owned laptops and vehicles massively exceed office PCs.
Plus Military / aviation hardware and heaps of high tech items used in industry.

> China has recently succeeded in making chips able to to that.
> Their latest KaiXian KX-6000 model has fine performance for
> that application.

** 100% irrelevant.

China needs export earnings - big time.
Taiwan provides fab for all the leading chip design companies.
92% of that market.

When the poo hits the fan re Taiwan, all of them will refuse or be compelled NOT to deal with China.

...... Phil

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
> Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> =======================
>>
>> >> If they invaded they'd have to be pretty clever to do it quick
>> >> enough that the TSMC equipment couldn't be moved out or destroyed
>> >> anyway.
>> >
>> > ** OK - so now "they" = China.
>> >
>> >>They'd probably just achieve a temporary disruption to
>> >> global chip supplies.
>> >
>> > ** If Taiwan carries out a "scorched earth" policy - China
>> > gains nothing by invading.
>>
>> Yeah, so it's not "Why China wants Taiwan back".
>
> ** That does not follow in any way.
>
>
>> > China lacks the means to make the world's most valuable
>> Yes.
>>
>> > and wanted
>>
>> No.
>> > computer chips even for their own production.
>
>> Most such computer chips are just for running office PCs,
>
> ** Not one tiny bit true.
>
> Smartphones,

Hence I mentioned ARM before, they all run ARM CPUs. I assumed you
weren't talking about them, after all you were yawning before.

> privately owned laptops

Yeah, like the ones the Chinese can make themselves based on
their new KaiXian x86_64 CPUs.

> and vehicles

ARM again. The Chinese can already make 'em.

> massively exceed office PCs.

They're just the part that China has been behind on compared to
the big western chip companies.

> Plus Military / aviation hardware and heaps of high tech items
> used in industry.

I'm sure they have their own mill. spec. lines as well. Why
wouldn't they?

>> China has recently succeeded in making chips able to to that.
>> Their latest KaiXian KX-6000 model has fine performance for
>> that application.
>
> ** 100% irrelevant.
>
> China needs export earnings - big time.
> Taiwan provides fab for all the leading chip design companies.
> 92% of that market.
>
> When the poo hits the fan re Taiwan, all of them will refuse or
> be compelled NOT to deal with China.

Yeah, so it's not "Why China wants Taiwan back". They wouldn't get
the high-tech fab capability (which they're rapidly developing
themselves anyway), and their main export market would get closed
off. The chip fabs in Taiwan are irrelevant, except possibly for
strategic value in causing a temporary chip shortage for the west.

--
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#_ < |\| |< _#

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote
> Computer Nerd Kev wrote

> ** Q: Do you read posts at all ??
>
>>
>> > TSMC make 92% of all high tech chips used today.
>> > Be a massive prize for China to get control over TSMC.
>> > Also, most of the machines essential to making them come from the
>> > USA.
>>
>> At the same time though they're developing their own x86_64 SoCs
>> (CPU+GPU etc. in one) and are currently reaching the capabilities
>> of current low-end western models.
>>
>
> ** Who is "they".
>
>> But many say that x86-based CPUs are on the way out now anyway. ARM
>> China recently went independent from it's parent company and plans
>> to continue to develop its own ARM CPU architectures separately, so
>> that covers the likely alternative platform of the future.
>
> ** Yawnnnnn.....
>
>> So for getting away from their domestic reliance on TSMC and US
>> semi companies they're definately working on more peaceful (unless
>> you're an ARM exec.) options as well.
>
> ** ???
>
>
>> If they invaded they'd have to be pretty clever to do it quick
>> enough that the TSMC equipment couldn't be moved out or destroyed
>> anyway.
>
> ** OK - so now "they" = China.
>
>>They'd probably just achieve a temporary disruption to
>> global chip supplies.
>
> If Taiwan carries out a "scorched earth"
> policy - China gains nothing by invading.

They do get the kudos for doing that. It isn't about economics, stupid.
> China lacks the means to make the world's most valuable
> and wanted computer chips even for their own production.

Currently, but that can be fixed.

But the US wont let china take over taiwan, you watch.

Computer Nerd Kev is INSANE
========================
>>
> >> > ** If Taiwan carries out a "scorched earth" policy - China
> >> > gains nothing by invading.
> >>
> >> Yeah, so it's not "Why China wants Taiwan back".
>
** That does not follow in any way you idiot.
==============================

> > China needs export earnings - big time.
> > Taiwan provides fab for all the leading chip design companies.
> > 92% of that market.
> >
> > When the poo hits the fan re Taiwan, all of them will refuse or
> > be compelled NOT to deal with China.
>
> Yeah, so it's not "Why China wants Taiwan back".

** Shame that ridiculous idea is insane crap.

> They wouldn't get the high-tech fab capability

** They are very much expecting to.
Taiwan's wealth and GDP is what they desperately need.

....... Phil

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote
> Computer Nerd Kev wrote

>> >> > If Taiwan carries out a "scorched earth"
>> >> > policy - China gains nothing by invading.

>> >> Yeah, so it's not "Why China wants Taiwan back".

> That does not follow in any way you idiot.

Wrong, as always.

>> > China needs export earnings - big time.
>> > Taiwan provides fab for all the leading chip
>> > design companies. 92% of that market.

>> > When the poo hits the fan re Taiwan, all of them will
>> > refuse or be compelled NOT to deal with China.

>> Yeah, so it's not "Why China wants Taiwan back".

>> They wouldn't get the high-tech fab capability

> They are very much expecting to.

Wrong, as always.

> Taiwan's wealth and GDP is what they desperately need.

More of your mindless pig ignorant
bullshit. It’s a tiny part of china's.

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
> Computer Nerd Kev is INSANE
> ========================
>>>
>> >> > ** If Taiwan carries out a "scorched earth" policy - China
>> >> > gains nothing by invading.
>> >>
>> >> Yeah, so it's not "Why China wants Taiwan back".
>>
> ** That does not follow in any way you idiot.
> ==============================

Course it does, the Chinese do want to invade, but only for
political reasons. Nothing to do with semiconductor fabs, which
couldn't be reliably taken over that way anyway.

>> > China needs export earnings - big time.
>> > Taiwan provides fab for all the leading chip design companies.
>> > 92% of that market.
>> >
>> > When the poo hits the fan re Taiwan, all of them will refuse or
>> > be compelled NOT to deal with China.
>>
>> Yeah, so it's not "Why China wants Taiwan back".
>
> ** Shame that ridiculous idea is insane crap.
>
>> They wouldn't get the high-tech fab capability
>
> ** They are very much expecting to.

Nonsense, the Chinese are developing their own equivalent
technology and doing quite well at it lately. That's much cheaper
than invading Taiwan as well.

> Taiwan's wealth and GDP is what they desperately need.

Nah, they wouldn't get much out of it as all the high-tech
western-backed manufacturers would set up somewhere else (and do
their best to take or destroy their manufacturing equipment before
leaving if given half a chance). Plus pissing off the yanks would
do their GDP a lot of harm, much more than they could offset by
gaining that tiny island.

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#_ < |\| |< _#

Computer Nerd Kev is INSANE
========================
> >
> >> >> > ** If Taiwan carries out a "scorched earth" policy - China
> >> >> > gains nothing by invading.
> >> >>
> >> >> Yeah, so it's not "Why China wants Taiwan back".
> >>
> > ** That does not follow in any way you idiot.
> > ==============================
> Course it does, the Chinese do want to invade, but only for
> political reasons.

** Which vanishes if the are no economic benefits.

>>
> > ** Shame that ridiculous idea is insane crap.
> >
> >> They wouldn't get the high-tech fab capability
> >
> > ** They are very much expecting to.
>
> Nonsense, the Chinese are developing their own equivalent
> technology

** China did not get wealthy by making stuff for themselves.

> > Taiwan's wealth and GDP is what they desperately need.
>
> Nah,

** Bad word to use - it proves you have no case.

....... Phil

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote
> Computer wrote

>> >> >> > ** If Taiwan carries out a "scorched earth" policy - China
>> >> >> > gains nothing by invading.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Yeah, so it's not "Why China wants Taiwan back".
>> >>
>> > ** That does not follow in any way you idiot.
>> > ==============================
>> Course it does, the Chinese do want to invade, but only for
>> political reasons.

> Which vanishes if the are no economic benefits.

Bullshit back in china. That’s all that fool cares about.

>> > ** Shame that ridiculous idea is insane crap.
>> >
>> >> They wouldn't get the high-tech fab capability
>> >
>> > ** They are very much expecting to.
>>
>> Nonsense, the Chinese are developing their own equivalent
>> technology
>
> China did not get wealthy by making stuff for themselves.

Irrelevant to what makes sense for them to do now.

>> > Taiwan's wealth and GDP is what they desperately need.
>>
>> Nah,

Phil Allison <pallison49@gmail.com> wrote:
> Computer Nerd Kev is INSANE
> ========================
>> >
>> >> >> > ** If Taiwan carries out a "scorched earth" policy - China
>> >> >> > gains nothing by invading.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Yeah, so it's not "Why China wants Taiwan back".
>> >>
>> > ** That does not follow in any way you idiot.
>> > ==============================
>> Course it does, the Chinese do want to invade, but only for
>> political reasons.
>
> ** Which vanishes if the are no economic benefits.

Nope, in fact the Chinese Communist Party has long had the benefit
of being able to use their official intention to invade Taiwan to
drum up nationalist sentiment domestically, without even making a
serious attempt to launch an invasion. That's been going on long
before Taiwan got wealthy and started making the world's computer
chips as well. It's political, not economic, and they're not the
same thing.

>> > ** Shame that ridiculous idea is insane crap.
>> >
>> >> They wouldn't get the high-tech fab capability
>> >
>> > ** They are very much expecting to.
>>
>> Nonsense, the Chinese are developing their own equivalent
>> technology
>
> ** China did not get wealthy by making stuff for themselves.

They're doing it anyway though, right now with their x86_64 CPU
clones, instead of invading Taiwan which would annoy the people
in the West who they're making lots of other "stuff" for.

>> > Taiwan's wealth and GDP is what they desperately need.
>>
>> Nah,
>
> ** Bad word to use - it proves you have no case.

Ha! If you're going to snip away my whole argument and cliam that's
because it begins with a word you don't like, I think it's pretty
obvious that you're the one without a case.

--
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Compewter nurds ARE nut cases

===========================
> >> >
> >> >> >> > ** If Taiwan carries out a "scorched earth" policy - China
> >> >> >> > gains nothing by invading.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Yeah, so it's not "Why China wants Taiwan back".
> >> >>
> >> > ** That does not follow in any way you idiot.
> >> > ==============================
> >> Course it does, the Chinese do want to invade, but only for
> >> political reasons.
> >
> > ** Which vanishes if the are no economic benefits.
>>
> Nope,

** Wrong word again - you are bullshitting wildly.

> >>
> >> >> They wouldn't get the high-tech fab capability
> >> >
> >> > ** They are very much expecting to.
> >>
> >> Nonsense, the Chinese are developing their own equivalent
> >> technology
> >
> > ** China did not get wealthy by making stuff for themselves.
>
> They're doing it anyway though,

** No they are not.

> >> Nah,
> >
> > ** Bad word to use - it proves you have no case.
>
> Ha! If you're going to snip away my whole argument and cliam that's
> because it begins with a word you don't like,

** Funny how you just dismissed my points with one word.

> I think it's pretty obvious that ....

** You are a fucking, raving nut case ?.
Been bloody obvious for decades.

...... Phil

On Wednesday, October 20, 2021 at 10:45:51 AM UTC+8, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> > When the poo hits the fan re Taiwan, all of them will refuse or
> > be compelled NOT to deal with China.
> Yeah, so it's not "Why China wants Taiwan back". They wouldn't get
> the high-tech fab capability (which they're rapidly developing
> themselves anyway), and their main export market would get closed
> off. The chip fabs in Taiwan are irrelevant, except possibly for
> strategic value in causing a temporary chip shortage for the west.
> --
>
A war over Taiwan would certainly fuck shit up, even if they don't succeed.
Upgrade your PC and phone before it happens.

Falscher Bruce <bruce56@topmail.co.nz> wrote
> Computer Nerd Kev wrote

>>> When the poo hits the fan re Taiwan, all of them will
>>> refuse or be compelled NOT to deal with China.

>> Yeah, so it's not "Why China wants Taiwan back". They wouldn't
>> get the high-tech fab capability (which they're rapidly developing
>> themselves anyway), and their main export market would get closed
>> off. The chip fabs in Taiwan are irrelevant, except possibly for
>> strategic value in causing a temporary chip shortage for the west.

> A war over Taiwan would certainly fuck shit up, even if they don't
> succeed.

> Upgrade your PC and phone before it happens.

Guaranteed that everyone will do that imo.