From
<https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/14/britains-vaccines-tsar-cant-travel-abroad-had-trial-jab/>

Vaccines tsar Kate Bingham can’t travel abroad because she had trial jab

Dame Kate among an estimated 40,000 people stuck in UK because NHS computer
system refuses to recognise trial doses

Britain's vaccines tsar, Dame Kate Bingham, is being prevented from
travelling abroad because she took part in early vaccine trials, The
Telegraph has learned.

The biochemist, hailed a pandemic hero after spearheading the Government's
vaccines taskforce, is among an estimated 40,000 people forced to put their
summer plans on hold after the NHS computer system refused to recognise
their Covid trial jabs.

The NHS system will not accept proof that they have taken part in a
clinical trial for several more weeks, leaving many unwilling to risk
booking a holiday – even if they have had two jabs – because a green tick
will not yet have appeared on their vaccine passport.

A source said: "It's not a good situation for any of the triallists to be
in. They're being held in limbo. I imagine it's quite awkward for Kate
because she has been asked to speak at events abroad this summer and
doesn't know if she will be able to, quite apart from whether she can
travel on holiday."

Dame Kate, a managing partner at venture capital firm SV Health Investors,
is due to be crowned "Woman of the Year" at a Women Innovating Together in
Healthcare event in Paris on Monday night – but it is not yet clear whether
she will be able to collect the award in person.

Last year, she oversaw the procurement of over 350 million doses of six
different Covid jabs. On Wednesday, the Department for Health and Social
Care (DHSC) announced that more than two in three British adults had now
received both jabs, taking the total to 35,155,767.

The 55-year-old mother of three, who is married to Jesse Norman, the
Financial Secretary to the Treasury, was rewarded in the Queen's Birthday
Honours List for her efforts in the unpaid role.

In an interview with The Telegraph in March, Dame Kate described taking
part in the Novavax trials, saying the vaccine looked "incredibly strong
against the variants".

It is understood she received her second Novavax jab in the spring – but as
the vaccine has not received final approval from the Medicines and
Healthcare products Regulatory Agency, it is not yet recognised by the NHS
or accepted by EU countries.

This is despite the trials, which started last October, showing the vaccine
to be 96 per cent effective against the original strain of SARS-CoV-2.

The Government has ordered 60 million doses of the vaccine and, if
approved, a large proportion of those supplies will be manufactured at
Novavax's UK factory in Billingham, Stockton-on-Tees.

It is thought Dame Kate and fellow taskforce members are concerned that
volunteers will be put off taking part in future trials if they cannot get
vaccine passports despite being double jabbed. The technical "glitch" also
affects those who took part in trials of the Johnson & Johnson and Valneva
vaccines.

In a letter sent to vaccine volunteers last month, Prof Jonathan Van-Tam,
the Deputy Chief Medical Officer, said: "The Department of Health and
Social Care makes a firm commitment to all volunteers in formally approved
Covid-19 vaccine trials in the UK that you will not be disadvantaged in
terms of any future domestic vaccine certification, if introduced, compared
to anyone else who has had their vaccines under the standard NHS
programme."

Insisting that anyone who has taken part in a clinical trial would be
"treated as fully vaccinated", he added: "Operationally, it will take a few
weeks for the NHS to complete the programming work, but it will happen
before the end of July.

"Participants in well-regulated clinical trials should also not be
disadvantaged as global travel resumes. We believe the added risk of
allowing the relatively small number of clinical trial participants to
travel – in the UK approximately 40,000 people, the vast majority of whom
have been vaccinated – is strongly outweighed by the benefit of ensuring
that recruitment and retention into clinical trials can continue."

A DHSC spokesman said: "The NHS Covid Pass service is helping tens of
thousands of English and Welsh citizens demonstrate their vaccination
status quickly, easily and for free, both for international travel and for
use at events as part of the Events Research Programme.

"The information displayed is from national NHS systems and, if a patient's
information is incorrect or missing, they can contact their GP who will be
able to update their record. The NHS Covid Pass service will in the coming
weeks display vaccine information for people enrolled in clinical trials."

In message <scnmn6$r9n$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:59:02 on Wed, 14 Jul
2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>From
><https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/14/britains-vaccines-tsar-cant
>-travel-abroad-had-trial-jab/>
>
>Vaccines tsar Kate Bingham can’t travel abroad because she had trial jab
>
>Dame Kate among an estimated 40,000 people stuck in UK because NHS
>computer system refuses to recognise trial doses weeks display vaccine
>information for people enrolled in clinical trials."

There's obviously more to this than meets the eye. Because someone in
her position could easily get onto the alpha-test programme and receive
the promised 'passport'.

Most likely it's frustration at the contractors doing the project, given
Van-Tam as much as promised it was a done deal, over a month ago.
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 21:59:02 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote:

> Insisting that anyone who has taken part in a clinical trial would be
> "treated as fully vaccinated",...

Eh? Not double-blind trials then.

On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 14:34:17 +0100, mechanic <mechanic@example.net> wrote:

>On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 21:59:02 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote:
>
>> Insisting that anyone who has taken part in a clinical trial would be
>> "treated as fully vaccinated",...
>
>Eh? Not double-blind trials then.

"It is understood she received her second Novavax jab in the spring," so presumably she'd be unblinded soon after, so as
to know whether she needed to get normal NHS jabs when her turn came.

On 15/07/2021 14:44, Recliner wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 14:34:17 +0100, mechanic <mechanic@example.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 21:59:02 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote:
>>
>>> Insisting that anyone who has taken part in a clinical trial would be
>>> "treated as fully vaccinated",...
>>
>> Eh? Not double-blind trials then.
>
> "It is understood she received her second Novavax jab in the spring," so presumably she'd be unblinded soon after, so as
> to know whether she needed to get normal NHS jabs when her turn came.
>

If it was Novavax then:

'Novavax has announced that it will not submit its COVID-19 vaccine to
regulators in the US, UK and Europe until the third quarter of 2021,
following issues with the manufacturing of certain components of the jab.'

So it's currently an unapproved vaccine and so unsurprising that its
use cannot be recognised.

On 15/07/2021 14:44, Recliner wrote:
> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 14:34:17 +0100, mechanic <mechanic@example.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 21:59:02 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote:
>>
>>> Insisting that anyone who has taken part in a clinical trial would be
>>> "treated as fully vaccinated",...
>>
>> Eh? Not double-blind trials then.
>
> "It is understood she received her second Novavax jab in the spring," so presumably she'd be unblinded soon after, so as
> to know whether she needed to get normal NHS jabs when her turn came.
>
My original vaccination centre also used some of the Indian Astra
vaccinations and there's been reports of people from there being refused
exit from the UK by airlines.

This is just another example of the EU being awkward following the
vaccine wars and Brexit.

In message <scpfbn$qvp$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:05:42 on Thu, 15 Jul
2021, JGD <news@prodata.co.uk> remarked:
>On 15/07/2021 14:44, Recliner wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 14:34:17 +0100, mechanic <mechanic@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 21:59:02 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote:
>>>
>>>> Insisting that anyone who has taken part in a clinical trial would be
>>>> "treated as fully vaccinated",...
>>>
>>> Eh? Not double-blind trials then.
>> "It is understood she received her second Novavax jab in the
>>spring," so presumably she'd be unblinded soon after, so as
>> to know whether she needed to get normal NHS jabs when her turn came.
>>
>
>If it was Novavax then:
>
>'Novavax has announced that it will not submit its COVID-19 vaccine to
>regulators in the US, UK and Europe until the third quarter of 2021,
>following issues with the manufacturing of certain components of the
>jab.'
>
>So it's currently an unapproved vaccine and so unsurprising that its
>use cannot be recognised.

Doesn't matter, the public policy issue here is trying to avoid
participants refusing to take part in future trials if this kind of
thing is the outcome.
--
Roland Perry

In message <scpfda$7i3$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:06:17 on Thu, 15 Jul
2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>On 15/07/2021 14:44, Recliner wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 14:34:17 +0100, mechanic <mechanic@example.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 21:59:02 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote:
>>>
>>>> Insisting that anyone who has taken part in a clinical trial would be
>>>> "treated as fully vaccinated",...
>>>
>>> Eh? Not double-blind trials then.

>> "It is understood she received her second Novavax jab in the
>>spring," so presumably she'd be unblinded soon after, so as
>> to know whether she needed to get normal NHS jabs when her turn came.
>>
>My original vaccination centre also used some of the Indian Astra
>vaccinations and there's been reports of people from there being
>refused exit from the UK by airlines.
>
>This is just another example of the EU being awkward following the
>vaccine wars and Brexit.

They are being stringent about which vaccines they are prepared to
accept. The bigger question is why the Indian-manufactured vaccine
didn't seek EU approval. Should have been a formality, but if they
didn't bother...
--
Roland Perry

On 15/07/2021 16:35, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <scpfbn$qvp$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:05:42 on Thu, 15 Jul
> 2021, JGD <news@prodata.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 15/07/2021 14:44, Recliner wrote:
>>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 14:34:17 +0100, mechanic <mechanic@example.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 21:59:02 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Insisting that anyone who has taken part in a clinical trial would be
>>>>> "treated as fully vaccinated",...
>>>>
>>>> Eh? Not double-blind trials then.
>>>  "It is understood she received her second Novavax jab in the
>>> spring," so presumably she'd be unblinded soon after, so as
>>> to know whether she needed to get normal NHS jabs when her turn came.
>>>
>>
>> If it was Novavax then:
>>
>> 'Novavax has announced that it will not submit its COVID-19 vaccine to
>> regulators in the US, UK and Europe until the third quarter of 2021,
>> following issues with the manufacturing of certain components of the
>> jab.'
>>
>> So it's currently an unapproved vaccine  and so unsurprising that its
>> use cannot be recognised.
>
> Doesn't matter, the public policy issue here is trying to avoid
> participants refusing to take part in future trials if this kind of
> thing is the outcome.

I'm precipitating in a non-covid medical trial at the moment and would
have undertaken a civid vaccine trial if offered (which is possible) but
I've noted the Westminster government's abject failure to support
participants and will decline any offer to take part in such a vaccine
trial.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <scpfda$7i3$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:06:17 on Thu, 15 Jul
> 2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>> On 15/07/2021 14:44, Recliner wrote:
>>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 14:34:17 +0100, mechanic <mechanic@example.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 21:59:02 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Insisting that anyone who has taken part in a clinical trial would be
>>>>> "treated as fully vaccinated",...
>>>>
>>>> Eh? Not double-blind trials then.
>
>>> "It is understood she received her second Novavax jab in the
>>> spring," so presumably she'd be unblinded soon after, so as
>>> to know whether she needed to get normal NHS jabs when her turn came.
>>>
>> My original vaccination centre also used some of the Indian Astra
>> vaccinations and there's been reports of people from there being
>> refused exit from the UK by airlines.
>>
>> This is just another example of the EU being awkward following the
>> vaccine wars and Brexit.
>
> They are being stringent about which vaccines they are prepared to
> accept. The bigger question is why the Indian-manufactured vaccine
> didn't seek EU approval. Should have been a formality, but if they
> didn't bother...

The SII has no plans to market Covishield in the EU, so thought it had no
need to seek EU approval.

Only recently has it become apparent that the EU will only accept vaccine
passports from other countries that use vaccines explicitly approved for
use in the EU. If it sticks with this policy, it won't be accepting vaccine
passports from most other countries. Indeed, some EU countries are using
vaccines not approved by the EMA. Will their vaccine passports be accepted
in other EU countries?

Or is the EU going to accept that it is not the only country with a
competent medical regulator?

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 15/07/2021 16:35, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <scpfbn$qvp$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:05:42 on Thu, 15 Jul
>> 2021, JGD <news@prodata.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 15/07/2021 14:44, Recliner wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 14:34:17 +0100, mechanic <mechanic@example.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 21:59:02 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Insisting that anyone who has taken part in a clinical trial would be
>>>>>> "treated as fully vaccinated",...
>>>>>
>>>>> Eh? Not double-blind trials then.
>>>>  "It is understood she received her second Novavax jab in the
>>>> spring," so presumably she'd be unblinded soon after, so as
>>>> to know whether she needed to get normal NHS jabs when her turn came.
>>>>
>>>
>>> If it was Novavax then:
>>>
>>> 'Novavax has announced that it will not submit its COVID-19 vaccine to
>>> regulators in the US, UK and Europe until the third quarter of 2021,
>>> following issues with the manufacturing of certain components of the
>>> jab.'
>>>
>>> So it's currently an unapproved vaccine  and so unsurprising that its
>>> use cannot be recognised.
>>
>> Doesn't matter, the public policy issue here is trying to avoid
>> participants refusing to take part in future trials if this kind of
>> thing is the outcome.
>
> I'm precipitating in a non-covid medical trial at the moment and would
> have undertaken a civid vaccine trial if offered (which is possible) but
> I've noted the Westminster government's abject failure to support
> participants and will decline any offer to take part in such a vaccine
> trial.
>

It's not just the UK government. Let's say the MHRA approves Novavax next
week, and the NHS duly cites it in UK vaccine passports. Would that mean
that the EU would accept them? At the moment, it seems not, as the EMA
hasn't also approved it.

On 15/07/2021 17:24, Recliner wrote:
> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 15/07/2021 16:35, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <scpfbn$qvp$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:05:42 on Thu, 15 Jul
>>> 2021, JGD <news@prodata.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 15/07/2021 14:44, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 14:34:17 +0100, mechanic <mechanic@example.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 21:59:02 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Insisting that anyone who has taken part in a clinical trial would be
>>>>>>> "treated as fully vaccinated",...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eh? Not double-blind trials then.
>>>>>  "It is understood she received her second Novavax jab in the
>>>>> spring," so presumably she'd be unblinded soon after, so as
>>>>> to know whether she needed to get normal NHS jabs when her turn came.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If it was Novavax then:
>>>>
>>>> 'Novavax has announced that it will not submit its COVID-19 vaccine to
>>>> regulators in the US, UK and Europe until the third quarter of 2021,
>>>> following issues with the manufacturing of certain components of the
>>>> jab.'
>>>>
>>>> So it's currently an unapproved vaccine  and so unsurprising that its
>>>> use cannot be recognised.
>>>
>>> Doesn't matter, the public policy issue here is trying to avoid
>>> participants refusing to take part in future trials if this kind of
>>> thing is the outcome.
>>
>> I'm precipitating in a non-covid medical trial at the moment and would
>> have undertaken a civid vaccine trial if offered (which is possible) but
>> I've noted the Westminster government's abject failure to support
>> participants and will decline any offer to take part in such a vaccine
>> trial.
>>
>
> It's not just the UK government. Let's say the MHRA approves Novavax next
> week, and the NHS duly cites it in UK vaccine passports. Would that mean
> that the EU would accept them? At the moment, it seems not, as the EMA
> hasn't also approved it.
>
Covid passports will be used for more than just travel to the EU and
individual countries have the option to accept non-EMA approved. That's
how most people with the Indian Astra vaccine have been able to travel
there.

I suspect EU countries desperate for UK citizens to spend, spend, spend
will accept almost anything going.

On 14/07/2021 22:59, Recliner wrote:
> From
> <https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/14/britains-vaccines-tsar-cant-travel-abroad-had-trial-jab/>

> A DHSC spokesman said: "The NHS Covid Pass service is helping tens of
> thousands of English and Welsh citizens
Who they?

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On 15/07/2021 17:56, Arthur Figgis wrote:
> On 14/07/2021 22:59, Recliner wrote:
>> From
>> <https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/07/14/britains-vaccines-tsar-cant-travel-abroad-had-trial-jab/>
>>
>
>
>> A DHSC spokesman said: "The NHS Covid Pass service is helping tens of
>> thousands of English and Welsh citizens
> Who they?
>
>

I don't recommend leaving it until the last minute to enroll as it took
me about 30 hours. I used a hi-res flat bed scan of my driving licence
and it was rejected the first time but I couldn't understand why so used
the same image second time which passed. They only accept jpeg.

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 15/07/2021 17:24, Recliner wrote:
>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 15/07/2021 16:35, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <scpfbn$qvp$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:05:42 on Thu, 15 Jul
>>>> 2021, JGD <news@prodata.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> On 15/07/2021 14:44, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 14:34:17 +0100, mechanic <mechanic@example.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 21:59:02 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Insisting that anyone who has taken part in a clinical trial would be
>>>>>>>> "treated as fully vaccinated",...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eh? Not double-blind trials then.
>>>>>>  "It is understood she received her second Novavax jab in the
>>>>>> spring," so presumably she'd be unblinded soon after, so as
>>>>>> to know whether she needed to get normal NHS jabs when her turn came.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If it was Novavax then:
>>>>>
>>>>> 'Novavax has announced that it will not submit its COVID-19 vaccine to
>>>>> regulators in the US, UK and Europe until the third quarter of 2021,
>>>>> following issues with the manufacturing of certain components of the
>>>>> jab.'
>>>>>
>>>>> So it's currently an unapproved vaccine  and so unsurprising that its
>>>>> use cannot be recognised.
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't matter, the public policy issue here is trying to avoid
>>>> participants refusing to take part in future trials if this kind of
>>>> thing is the outcome.
>>>
>>> I'm precipitating in a non-covid medical trial at the moment and would
>>> have undertaken a civid vaccine trial if offered (which is possible) but
>>> I've noted the Westminster government's abject failure to support
>>> participants and will decline any offer to take part in such a vaccine
>>> trial.
>>>
>>
>> It's not just the UK government. Let's say the MHRA approves Novavax next
>> week, and the NHS duly cites it in UK vaccine passports. Would that mean
>> that the EU would accept them? At the moment, it seems not, as the EMA
>> hasn't also approved it.
>>
> Covid passports will be used for more than just travel to the EU and
> individual countries have the option to accept non-EMA approved. That's
> how most people with the Indian Astra vaccine have been able to travel
> there.
>
> I suspect EU countries desperate for UK citizens to spend, spend, spend
> will accept almost anything going.

It's currently a rather confusing mess:
<https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/fact-check-are-9-eu-countries-accepting-covishield-vaccines-for-travel-in-spite-of-eus-decision-not-to/>

Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r
>> Or is the EU going to accept that it is not the only country with
>> acompetent medical regulator?
>
> Well, it's hardly unique at the moment. The UK only accepts
> vaccines administered by the NHS (sadly that rules me out of
> visiting the UK any time soon - oh dear, what a shame, never
> mind,) and China only accept Chinese vaccines to avoid mandatory
> quarantine, to name but two.
>
> On the bright side, I've flown into two non-EU countries (Bosnia &
> Ukraine) in the last week and sailed through with the EU Digital
> Covid Certificate (vaccine passport) with no problems, so it
> seems to be working reasonably well at least in our own backyard.
> And obviously it's working fine in/out of Schengen.

It might be better if countries agreed to accept WHO approval, as well as
their own.

>
>
> (Unfortunately my British passport is also now filling up with EU
> border stamps, something you assured us all would absolutely
> never happen a year ago - sigh.)
>

I got one with extra pages when I got my new black passport late last year.
My old maroon was full (obviously not with EU stamps).

In message <scpng6$d4u$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:24:38 on Thu, 15 Jul
2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
><martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 15/07/2021 16:35, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <scpfbn$qvp$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:05:42 on Thu, 15 Jul
>>> 2021, JGD <news@prodata.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 15/07/2021 14:44, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 14:34:17 +0100, mechanic <mechanic@example.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 21:59:02 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Insisting that anyone who has taken part in a clinical trial would be
>>>>>>> "treated as fully vaccinated",...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Eh? Not double-blind trials then.
>>>>>  "It is understood she received her second Novavax jab in the
>>>>> spring," so presumably she'd be unblinded soon after, so as
>>>>> to know whether she needed to get normal NHS jabs when her turn came.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If it was Novavax then:
>>>>
>>>> 'Novavax has announced that it will not submit its COVID-19 vaccine to
>>>> regulators in the US, UK and Europe until the third quarter of 2021,
>>>> following issues with the manufacturing of certain components of the
>>>> jab.'
>>>>
>>>> So it's currently an unapproved vaccine  and so unsurprising that its
>>>> use cannot be recognised.
>>>
>>> Doesn't matter, the public policy issue here is trying to avoid
>>> participants refusing to take part in future trials if this kind of
>>> thing is the outcome.
>>
>> I'm precipitating in a non-covid medical trial at the moment and would
>> have undertaken a civid vaccine trial if offered (which is possible) but
>> I've noted the Westminster government's abject failure to support
>> participants and will decline any offer to take part in such a vaccine
>> trial.
>
>It's not just the UK government. Let's say the MHRA approves Novavax next
>week, and the NHS duly cites it in UK vaccine passports. Would that mean
>that the EU would accept them?

If they can't manufacture the jab, would the NHS even offer it to
anyone?

>At the moment, it seems not, as the EMA hasn't also approved it.

--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <scpng6$d4u$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:24:38 on Thu, 15 Jul
> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 15/07/2021 16:35, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <scpfbn$qvp$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:05:42 on Thu, 15 Jul
>>>> 2021, JGD <news@prodata.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> On 15/07/2021 14:44, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 14:34:17 +0100, mechanic <mechanic@example.net>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 21:59:02 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Insisting that anyone who has taken part in a clinical trial would be
>>>>>>>> "treated as fully vaccinated",...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Eh? Not double-blind trials then.
>>>>>>  "It is understood she received her second Novavax jab in the
>>>>>> spring," so presumably she'd be unblinded soon after, so as
>>>>>> to know whether she needed to get normal NHS jabs when her turn came.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If it was Novavax then:
>>>>>
>>>>> 'Novavax has announced that it will not submit its COVID-19 vaccine to
>>>>> regulators in the US, UK and Europe until the third quarter of 2021,
>>>>> following issues with the manufacturing of certain components of the
>>>>> jab.'
>>>>>
>>>>> So it's currently an unapproved vaccine  and so unsurprising that its
>>>>> use cannot be recognised.
>>>>
>>>> Doesn't matter, the public policy issue here is trying to avoid
>>>> participants refusing to take part in future trials if this kind of
>>>> thing is the outcome.
>>>
>>> I'm precipitating in a non-covid medical trial at the moment and would
>>> have undertaken a civid vaccine trial if offered (which is possible) but
>>> I've noted the Westminster government's abject failure to support
>>> participants and will decline any offer to take part in such a vaccine
>>> trial.
>>
>> It's not just the UK government. Let's say the MHRA approves Novavax next
>> week, and the NHS duly cites it in UK vaccine passports. Would that mean
>> that the EU would accept them?
>
> If they can't manufacture the jab, would the NHS even offer it to
> anyone?

Perhaps you you should consult a dictionary to find the meaning of "Let's
say"?

In message <scrlum$ni1$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:10:30 on Fri, 16 Jul
2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <scpng6$d4u$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:24:38 on Thu, 15 Jul
>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 15/07/2021 16:35, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <scpfbn$qvp$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:05:42 on Thu, 15 Jul
>>>>> 2021, JGD <news@prodata.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> On 15/07/2021 14:44, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 14:34:17 +0100, mechanic <mechanic@example.net>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 21:59:02 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Insisting that anyone who has taken part in a clinical trial would be
>>>>>>>>> "treated as fully vaccinated",...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Eh? Not double-blind trials then.
>>>>>>>  "It is understood she received her second Novavax jab in the
>>>>>>> spring," so presumably she'd be unblinded soon after, so as
>>>>>>> to know whether she needed to get normal NHS jabs when her turn came.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If it was Novavax then:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 'Novavax has announced that it will not submit its COVID-19 vaccine to
>>>>>> regulators in the US, UK and Europe until the third quarter of 2021,
>>>>>> following issues with the manufacturing of certain components of the
>>>>>> jab.'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So it's currently an unapproved vaccine  and so unsurprising that its
>>>>>> use cannot be recognised.
>>>>>
>>>>> Doesn't matter, the public policy issue here is trying to avoid
>>>>> participants refusing to take part in future trials if this kind of
>>>>> thing is the outcome.
>>>>
>>>> I'm precipitating in a non-covid medical trial at the moment and would
>>>> have undertaken a civid vaccine trial if offered (which is possible) but
>>>> I've noted the Westminster government's abject failure to support
>>>> participants and will decline any offer to take part in such a vaccine
>>>> trial.
>>>
>>> It's not just the UK government. Let's say the MHRA approves Novavax next
>>> week, and the NHS duly cites it in UK vaccine passports. Would that mean
>>> that the EU would accept them?
>>
>> If they can't manufacture the jab, would the NHS even offer it to
>> anyone?
>
>Perhaps you you should consult a dictionary to find the meaning of "Let's
>say"?

Yes, I'm commenting on what might or might happen if your "let's say"
comes to pass.

What else were you expecting anyone to do?
--
Roland Perry

On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 14:28:59 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <scrlum$ni1$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:10:30 on Fri, 16 Jul
>2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <scpng6$d4u$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:24:38 on Thu, 15 Jul
>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 15/07/2021 16:35, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <scpfbn$qvp$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:05:42 on Thu, 15 Jul
>>>>>> 2021, JGD <news@prodata.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> On 15/07/2021 14:44, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 14:34:17 +0100, mechanic <mechanic@example.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 21:59:02 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Insisting that anyone who has taken part in a clinical trial would be
>>>>>>>>>> "treated as fully vaccinated",...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Eh? Not double-blind trials then.
>>>>>>>>  "It is understood she received her second Novavax jab in the
>>>>>>>> spring," so presumably she'd be unblinded soon after, so as
>>>>>>>> to know whether she needed to get normal NHS jabs when her turn came.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If it was Novavax then:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 'Novavax has announced that it will not submit its COVID-19 vaccine to
>>>>>>> regulators in the US, UK and Europe until the third quarter of 2021,
>>>>>>> following issues with the manufacturing of certain components of the
>>>>>>> jab.'
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So it's currently an unapproved vaccine  and so unsurprising that its
>>>>>>> use cannot be recognised.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doesn't matter, the public policy issue here is trying to avoid
>>>>>> participants refusing to take part in future trials if this kind of
>>>>>> thing is the outcome.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm precipitating in a non-covid medical trial at the moment and would
>>>>> have undertaken a civid vaccine trial if offered (which is possible) but
>>>>> I've noted the Westminster government's abject failure to support
>>>>> participants and will decline any offer to take part in such a vaccine
>>>>> trial.
>>>>
>>>> It's not just the UK government. Let's say the MHRA approves Novavax next
>>>> week, and the NHS duly cites it in UK vaccine passports. Would that mean
>>>> that the EU would accept them?
>>>
>>> If they can't manufacture the jab, would the NHS even offer it to
>>> anyone?
>>
>>Perhaps you you should consult a dictionary to find the meaning of "Let's
>>say"?
>
>Yes, I'm commenting on what might or might happen if your "let's say"
>comes to pass.
>
>What else were you expecting anyone to do?

You, or someone sensible?

On 16/07/2021 14:28, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <scrlum$ni1$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:10:30 on Fri, 16 Jul
> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <scpng6$d4u$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:24:38 on Thu, 15 Jul
>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 15/07/2021 16:35, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <scpfbn$qvp$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:05:42 on Thu, 15 Jul
>>>>>> 2021, JGD <news@prodata.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> On 15/07/2021 14:44, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 14:34:17 +0100, mechanic <mechanic@example.net>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 21:59:02 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Insisting that anyone who has taken part in a clinical trial
>>>>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>>>> "treated as fully vaccinated",...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Eh? Not double-blind trials then.
>>>>>>>>  "It is understood she received her second Novavax jab in the
>>>>>>>> spring," so presumably she'd be unblinded soon after, so as
>>>>>>>> to know whether she needed to get normal NHS jabs when her turn
>>>>>>>> came.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If it was Novavax then:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 'Novavax has announced that it will not submit its COVID-19
>>>>>>> vaccine to
>>>>>>> regulators in the US, UK and Europe until the third quarter of 2021,
>>>>>>> following issues with the manufacturing of certain components of the
>>>>>>> jab.'
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So it's currently an unapproved vaccine  and so unsurprising that
>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>> use cannot be recognised.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Doesn't matter, the public policy issue here is trying to avoid
>>>>>> participants refusing to take part in future trials if this kind of
>>>>>> thing is the outcome.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm precipitating in a non-covid medical trial at the moment and would
>>>>> have undertaken a civid vaccine trial if offered (which is
>>>>> possible) but
>>>>> I've noted the Westminster government's abject failure to support
>>>>> participants and will decline any offer to take part in such a vaccine
>>>>> trial.
>>>>
>>>> It's not just the UK government. Let's say the MHRA approves Novavax
>>>> next
>>>> week, and the NHS duly cites it in UK vaccine passports. Would that
>>>> mean
>>>> that the EU would accept them?
>>>
>>> If they can't manufacture the jab, would the NHS even offer it to
>>> anyone?
>>
>> Perhaps you you should consult a dictionary to find the meaning of "Let's
>> say"?
>
> Yes, I'm commenting on what might or might happen if your "let's say"
> comes to pass.

In that case you should have correctly phrased your response. I totally
agree with Recliner's statement.

>
> What else were you expecting anyone to do?

In message <scs3jc$vir$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:03:24 on Fri, 16 Jul
2021, martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk remarked:
>On 16/07/2021 14:28, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <scrlum$ni1$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:10:30 on Fri, 16 Jul
>>2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <scpng6$d4u$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:24:38 on Thu, 15 Jul
>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 15/07/2021 16:35, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <scpfbn$qvp$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:05:42 on Thu, 15 Jul
>>>>>>> 2021, JGD <news@prodata.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On 15/07/2021 14:44, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 14:34:17 +0100, mechanic <mechanic@example.net>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 21:59:02 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Insisting that anyone who has taken part in a clinical trial
>>>>>>>>>>>would be
>>>>>>>>>>> "treated as fully vaccinated",...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Eh? Not double-blind trials then.
>>>>>>>>>  "It is understood she received her second Novavax jab in the
>>>>>>>>> spring," so presumably she'd be unblinded soon after, so as
>>>>>>>>> to know whether she needed to get normal NHS jabs when her
>>>>>>>>>turn came.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If it was Novavax then:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 'Novavax has announced that it will not submit its COVID-19
>>>>>>>>vaccine to
>>>>>>>> regulators in the US, UK and Europe until the third quarter of 2021,
>>>>>>>> following issues with the manufacturing of certain components of the
>>>>>>>> jab.'
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So it's currently an unapproved vaccine  and so unsurprising
>>>>>>>>that its
>>>>>>>> use cannot be recognised.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doesn't matter, the public policy issue here is trying to avoid
>>>>>>> participants refusing to take part in future trials if this kind of
>>>>>>> thing is the outcome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm precipitating in a non-covid medical trial at the moment and would
>>>>>> have undertaken a civid vaccine trial if offered (which is
>>>>>>possible) but
>>>>>> I've noted the Westminster government's abject failure to support
>>>>>> participants and will decline any offer to take part in such a vaccine
>>>>>> trial.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not just the UK government. Let's say the MHRA approves
>>>>>Novavax next week, and the NHS duly cites it in UK vaccine
>>>>>passports. Would that mean that the EU would accept them?
>>>>
>>>> If they can't manufacture the jab, would the NHS even offer it to
>>>> anyone?
>>>
>>> Perhaps you you should consult a dictionary to find the meaning of "Let's
>>> say"?

>> Yes, I'm commenting on what might or might happen if your "let's
>>say" comes to pass.
>
>In that case you should have correctly phrased your response. I
>totally agree with Recliner's statement.

Can you suggest some alternative wording, because I don't understand the
nuance you imply.

>> What else were you expecting anyone to do?
>

--
Roland Perry

In message <m733fg1ekc5up1qabf046gb7e8vuhed8mp@4ax.com>, at 14:43:38 on
Fri, 16 Jul 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 14:28:59 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <scrlum$ni1$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:10:30 on Fri, 16 Jul
>>2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <scpng6$d4u$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:24:38 on Thu, 15 Jul
>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 15/07/2021 16:35, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <scpfbn$qvp$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:05:42 on Thu, 15 Jul
>>>>>>> 2021, JGD <news@prodata.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On 15/07/2021 14:44, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 14:34:17 +0100, mechanic <mechanic@example.net>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 21:59:02 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Insisting that anyone who has taken part in a clinical trial
>>>>>>>>>>>would be
>>>>>>>>>>> "treated as fully vaccinated",...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Eh? Not double-blind trials then.
>>>>>>>>>  "It is understood she received her second Novavax jab in the
>>>>>>>>> spring," so presumably she'd be unblinded soon after, so as
>>>>>>>>> to know whether she needed to get normal NHS jabs when her turn came.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If it was Novavax then:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 'Novavax has announced that it will not submit its COVID-19 vaccine to
>>>>>>>> regulators in the US, UK and Europe until the third quarter of 2021,
>>>>>>>> following issues with the manufacturing of certain components of the
>>>>>>>> jab.'
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So it's currently an unapproved vaccine  and so unsurprising that its
>>>>>>>> use cannot be recognised.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Doesn't matter, the public policy issue here is trying to avoid
>>>>>>> participants refusing to take part in future trials if this kind of
>>>>>>> thing is the outcome.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm precipitating in a non-covid medical trial at the moment and would
>>>>>> have undertaken a civid vaccine trial if offered (which is possible) but
>>>>>> I've noted the Westminster government's abject failure to support
>>>>>> participants and will decline any offer to take part in such a vaccine
>>>>>> trial.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's not just the UK government. Let's say the MHRA approves Novavax next
>>>>> week, and the NHS duly cites it in UK vaccine passports. Would that mean
>>>>> that the EU would accept them?
>>>>
>>>> If they can't manufacture the jab, would the NHS even offer it to
>>>> anyone?
>>>
>>>Perhaps you you should consult a dictionary to find the meaning of "Let's
>>>say"?
>>
>>Yes, I'm commenting on what might or might happen if your "let's say"
>>comes to pass.
>>
>>What else were you expecting anyone to do?
>
>You, or someone sensible?

I'm assuming that the NHS is sensible - and wouldn't offer a vaccine
that isn't in mass production, and no vaccine means no subsequent
vaccine passports [for that vaccine] to worry about, until it is in
mass production *and* there are people fully vaccinated.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <m733fg1ekc5up1qabf046gb7e8vuhed8mp@4ax.com>, at 14:43:38 on
> Fri, 16 Jul 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 14:28:59 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <scrlum$ni1$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:10:30 on Fri, 16 Jul
>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <scpng6$d4u$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:24:38 on Thu, 15 Jul
>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 15/07/2021 16:35, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <scpfbn$qvp$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:05:42 on Thu, 15 Jul
>>>>>>>> 2021, JGD <news@prodata.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> On 15/07/2021 14:44, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 14:34:17 +0100, mechanic <mechanic@example.net>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 21:59:02 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Insisting that anyone who has taken part in a clinical trial
>>>>>>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>>>>>> "treated as fully vaccinated",...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Eh? Not double-blind trials then.
>>>>>>>>>>  "It is understood she received her second Novavax jab in the
>>>>>>>>>> spring," so presumably she'd be unblinded soon after, so as
>>>>>>>>>> to know whether she needed to get normal NHS jabs when her turn came.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If it was Novavax then:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 'Novavax has announced that it will not submit its COVID-19 vaccine to
>>>>>>>>> regulators in the US, UK and Europe until the third quarter of 2021,
>>>>>>>>> following issues with the manufacturing of certain components of the
>>>>>>>>> jab.'
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So it's currently an unapproved vaccine  and so unsurprising that its
>>>>>>>>> use cannot be recognised.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Doesn't matter, the public policy issue here is trying to avoid
>>>>>>>> participants refusing to take part in future trials if this kind of
>>>>>>>> thing is the outcome.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm precipitating in a non-covid medical trial at the moment and would
>>>>>>> have undertaken a civid vaccine trial if offered (which is possible) but
>>>>>>> I've noted the Westminster government's abject failure to support
>>>>>>> participants and will decline any offer to take part in such a vaccine
>>>>>>> trial.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's not just the UK government. Let's say the MHRA approves Novavax next
>>>>>> week, and the NHS duly cites it in UK vaccine passports. Would that mean
>>>>>> that the EU would accept them?
>>>>>
>>>>> If they can't manufacture the jab, would the NHS even offer it to
>>>>> anyone?
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps you you should consult a dictionary to find the meaning of "Let's
>>>> say"?
>>>
>>> Yes, I'm commenting on what might or might happen if your "let's say"
>>> comes to pass.
>>>
>>> What else were you expecting anyone to do?
>>
>> You, or someone sensible?
>
> I'm assuming that the NHS is sensible - and wouldn't offer a vaccine
> that isn't in mass production, and no vaccine means no subsequent
> vaccine passports [for that vaccine] to worry about, until it is in
> mass production *and* there are people fully vaccinated.

It's not the NHS that is stupid...

In message <scstnn$rkp$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:29:27 on Fri, 16 Jul
2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <m733fg1ekc5up1qabf046gb7e8vuhed8mp@4ax.com>, at 14:43:38 on
>> Fri, 16 Jul 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 14:28:59 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <scrlum$ni1$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:10:30 on Fri, 16 Jul
>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <scpng6$d4u$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:24:38 on Thu, 15 Jul
>>>>>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 15/07/2021 16:35, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <scpfbn$qvp$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:05:42 on Thu, 15 Jul
>>>>>>>>> 2021, JGD <news@prodata.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> On 15/07/2021 14:44, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, 15 Jul 2021 14:34:17 +0100, mechanic <mechanic@example.net>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, 14 Jul 2021 21:59:02 -0000 (UTC), Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Insisting that anyone who has taken part in a clinical trial
>>>>>>>>>>>>> would be
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "treated as fully vaccinated",...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Eh? Not double-blind trials then.
>>>>>>>>>>>  "It is understood she received her second Novavax jab in the
>>>>>>>>>>> spring," so presumably she'd be unblinded soon after, so as
>>>>>>>>>>> to know whether she needed to get normal NHS jabs when her
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If it was Novavax then:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 'Novavax has announced that it will not submit its COVID-19
>>>>>>>>>>vaccine to
>>>>>>>>>> regulators in the US, UK and Europe until the third quarter of 2021,
>>>>>>>>>> following issues with the manufacturing of certain components of the
>>>>>>>>>> jab.'
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So it's currently an unapproved vaccine  and so unsurprising
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> use cannot be recognised.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Doesn't matter, the public policy issue here is trying to avoid
>>>>>>>>> participants refusing to take part in future trials if this kind of
>>>>>>>>> thing is the outcome.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm precipitating in a non-covid medical trial at the moment and would
>>>>>>>> have undertaken a civid vaccine trial if offered (which is
>>>>>>>>possible) but
>>>>>>>> I've noted the Westminster government's abject failure to support
>>>>>>>> participants and will decline any offer to take part in such a vaccine
>>>>>>>> trial.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not just the UK government. Let's say the MHRA approves
>>>>>>>Novavax next
>>>>>>> week, and the NHS duly cites it in UK vaccine passports. Would that mean
>>>>>>> that the EU would accept them?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If they can't manufacture the jab, would the NHS even offer it to
>>>>>> anyone?
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps you you should consult a dictionary to find the meaning of "Let's
>>>>> say"?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, I'm commenting on what might or might happen if your "let's say"
>>>> comes to pass.
>>>>
>>>> What else were you expecting anyone to do?
>>>
>>> You, or someone sensible?
>>
>> I'm assuming that the NHS is sensible - and wouldn't offer a vaccine
>> that isn't in mass production, and no vaccine means no subsequent
>> vaccine passports [for that vaccine] to worry about, until it is in
>> mass production *and* there are people fully vaccinated.
>
>It's not the NHS that is stupid...

I know people think the EU is stupid when it comes to Vaccine Passports,
but we are where we are. Were we still a member, we might have some
traction in forming their view.
--
Roland Perry