Embattled train company Avanti has asked the Department for Transport for
permission to declare “force majeure” on its struggling West Coast line in
a move that could set a precedent for the rail industry.

A declaration of force majeure would absolve Avanti from having to meet
performance targets on the line and help it avoid penalties for failing to
make trains run to schedule.

The operator axed scores of trains on the busy London to Manchester route
in August after drivers stopped working overtime. Avanti blamed
“unofficial” industrial action for the shortage of available train crew, a
claim hotly denied by rail unions.

Force majeure clauses usually apply to situations where a party cannot
fulfil their obligations because of unexpected circumstances outside their
control. One such event occurred in the rail industry in February when
storms battered Britain.

Industry sources questioned whether Avanti would succeed in its claim, as
the shortage of drivers is a chronic problem and train companies have long
relied on the goodwill of staff to work overtime.

<https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b349ff96-3bfb-11ed-8e9a-562640d83f98?shareToken=1ab42d8efd0c1ee2da470141aeb3fdf7>

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Embattled train company Avanti has asked the Department for Transport for
> permission to declare “force majeure” on its struggling West Coast line in
> a move that could set a precedent for the rail industry.
>
> A declaration of force majeure would absolve Avanti from having to meet
> performance targets on the line and help it avoid penalties for failing to
> make trains run to schedule.
>
> The operator axed scores of trains on the busy London to Manchester route
> in August after drivers stopped working overtime. Avanti blamed
> “unofficial” industrial action for the shortage of available train crew, a
> claim hotly denied by rail unions.
>
> Force majeure clauses usually apply to situations where a party cannot
> fulfil their obligations because of unexpected circumstances outside their
> control. One such event occurred in the rail industry in February when
> storms battered Britain.
>
> Industry sources questioned whether Avanti would succeed in its claim, as
> the shortage of drivers is a chronic problem and train companies have long
> relied on the goodwill of staff to work overtime.
>
> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b349ff96-3bfb-11ed-8e9a-562640d83f98?shareToken=1ab42d8efd0c1ee2da470141aeb3fdf7>
>
>
>

I suppose it depends on what DfT wants to do with the franchise. My guess
is they will allow the franchise to continue as they won’t want to take
direct blame for the situation just yet.

As a side note, I was on a Birmingham Glasgow flight on Friday. It wasn’t
100% full, so folk are probably not travelling rather than switching to
air. On a side side note, Birmingham airport was very busy so the recession
isn’t affecting travel just yet.

In message <tgorld$37t6n$1@dont-email.me>, at 06:15:09 on Sun, 25 Sep
2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Embattled train company Avanti has asked the Department for Transport for
>> permission to declare “force majeure” on its struggling West
>>Coast line in
>> a move that could set a precedent for the rail industry.
>>
>> A declaration of force majeure would absolve Avanti from having to meet
>> performance targets on the line and help it avoid penalties for failing to
>> make trains run to schedule.
>>
>> The operator axed scores of trains on the busy London to Manchester route
>> in August after drivers stopped working overtime. Avanti blamed
>> “unofficial” industrial action for the shortage of available
>>train crew, a
>> claim hotly denied by rail unions.
>>
>> Force majeure clauses usually apply to situations where a party cannot
>> fulfil their obligations because of unexpected circumstances outside their
>> control. One such event occurred in the rail industry in February when
>> storms battered Britain.
>>
>> Industry sources questioned whether Avanti would succeed in its claim, as
>> the shortage of drivers is a chronic problem and train companies have long
>> relied on the goodwill of staff to work overtime.
>>
>>
>><https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b349ff96-3bfb-11ed-8e9a-562640d83f9
>>8?shareToken=1ab42d8efd0c1ee2da470141aeb3fdf7>
>
>I suppose it depends on what DfT wants to do with the franchise. My guess
>is they will allow the franchise to continue as they won’t want to take
>direct blame for the situation just yet.
>
>As a side note, I was on a Birmingham Glasgow flight on Friday. It wasn’t
>100% full, so folk are probably not travelling rather than switching to
>air.

I wonder how full the Glasgow trains would be, anyway. And is the effect
of the remaining reduced service simply an inconvenience for passengers,
rather than causing the trains to be grossly overcrowded?

That would of course reduce their operating costs significantly.

>On a side side note, Birmingham airport was very busy so the recession
>isn’t affecting travel just yet.

I think airline leisure travel is still experiencing a post-Covid boost.
--
Roland Perry

On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 09:30:34 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:

>In message <tgorld$37t6n$1@dont-email.me>, at 06:15:09 on Sun, 25 Sep
>2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Embattled train company Avanti has asked the Department for Transport for
>>> permission to declare “force majeure” on its struggling West
>>>Coast line in
>>> a move that could set a precedent for the rail industry.
>>>
>>> A declaration of force majeure would absolve Avanti from having to meet
>>> performance targets on the line and help it avoid penalties for failing to
>>> make trains run to schedule.
>>>
>>> The operator axed scores of trains on the busy London to Manchester route
>>> in August after drivers stopped working overtime. Avanti blamed
>>> “unofficial” industrial action for the shortage of available
>>>train crew, a
>>> claim hotly denied by rail unions.
>>>
>>> Force majeure clauses usually apply to situations where a party cannot
>>> fulfil their obligations because of unexpected circumstances outside their
>>> control. One such event occurred in the rail industry in February when
>>> storms battered Britain.
>>>
>>> Industry sources questioned whether Avanti would succeed in its claim, as
>>> the shortage of drivers is a chronic problem and train companies have long
>>> relied on the goodwill of staff to work overtime.
>>>
>>>
>>><https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b349ff96-3bfb-11ed-8e9a-562640d83f9
>>>8?shareToken=1ab42d8efd0c1ee2da470141aeb3fdf7>
>>
>>I suppose it depends on what DfT wants to do with the franchise. My guess
>>is they will allow the franchise to continue as they won’t want to take
>>direct blame for the situation just yet.
>>
>>As a side note, I was on a Birmingham Glasgow flight on Friday. It wasn’t
>>100% full, so folk are probably not travelling rather than switching to
>>air.
>
>I wonder how full the Glasgow trains would be, anyway. And is the effect
>of the remaining reduced service simply an inconvenience for passengers,
>rather than causing the trains to be grossly overcrowded?
>
In my experience Glasgow trains, both Avanti and TPE, are usually very
busy, or were when I last did any significant travelling last June.

>That would of course reduce their operating costs significantly.
>
>>On a side side note, Birmingham airport was very busy so the recession
>>isn’t affecting travel just yet.
>
>I think airline leisure travel is still experiencing a post-Covid boost.

In message <rmn2jhpjdkd6bfcll4hcpsv1hb271ch99v@4ax.com>, at 09:13:32 on
Mon, 26 Sep 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 09:30:34 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <tgorld$37t6n$1@dont-email.me>, at 06:15:09 on Sun, 25 Sep
>>2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Embattled train company Avanti has asked the Department for Transport for
>>>> permission to declare “force majeure” on its struggling West
>>>>Coast line in
>>>> a move that could set a precedent for the rail industry.
>>>>
>>>> A declaration of force majeure would absolve Avanti from having to meet
>>>> performance targets on the line and help it avoid penalties for failing to
>>>> make trains run to schedule.
>>>>
>>>> The operator axed scores of trains on the busy London to Manchester route
>>>> in August after drivers stopped working overtime. Avanti blamed
>>>> “unofficial” industrial action for the shortage of available
>>>>train crew, a
>>>> claim hotly denied by rail unions.
>>>>
>>>> Force majeure clauses usually apply to situations where a party cannot
>>>> fulfil their obligations because of unexpected circumstances outside their
>>>> control. One such event occurred in the rail industry in February when
>>>> storms battered Britain.
>>>>
>>>> Industry sources questioned whether Avanti would succeed in its claim, as
>>>> the shortage of drivers is a chronic problem and train companies have long
>>>> relied on the goodwill of staff to work overtime.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>><https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b349ff96-3bfb-11ed-8e9a-562640d83f9
>>>>8?shareToken=1ab42d8efd0c1ee2da470141aeb3fdf7>
>>>
>>>I suppose it depends on what DfT wants to do with the franchise. My guess
>>>is they will allow the franchise to continue as they won’t want to take
>>>direct blame for the situation just yet.
>>>
>>>As a side note, I was on a Birmingham Glasgow flight on Friday. It wasn’t
>>>100% full, so folk are probably not travelling rather than switching to
>>>air.
>>
>>I wonder how full the Glasgow trains would be, anyway. And is the effect
>>of the remaining reduced service simply an inconvenience for passengers,
>>rather than causing the trains to be grossly overcrowded?
>>
>In my experience Glasgow trains, both Avanti and TPE, are usually very
>busy, or were when I last did any significant travelling last June.

The Avanti train I caught on what turned out to be the first weekend of
the school summer holidays this year was maybe half full. That was at
Crewe, I don't know what the situation was further north. Were they
still running almost a full timetable back in June?

What I understand to be a virtual withdrawal of AP tickets will also be
affecting demand (ie people deciding not to travel). I wouldn't expect
many of those to fly instead.

>>That would of course reduce their operating costs significantly.
>>
>>>On a side side note, Birmingham airport was very busy so the recession
>>>isn’t affecting travel just yet.
>>
>>I think airline leisure travel is still experiencing a post-Covid boost.

--
Roland Perry

On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 04:24:03 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>Embattled train company Avanti has asked the Department for Transport for
>permission to declare “force majeure” on its struggling West Coast line in
>a move that could set a precedent for the rail industry.
>
>A declaration of force majeure would absolve Avanti from having to meet
>performance targets on the line and help it avoid penalties for failing to
>make trains run to schedule.
>
>The operator axed scores of trains on the busy London to Manchester route
>in August after drivers stopped working overtime. Avanti blamed
>“unofficial” industrial action for the shortage of available train crew, a
>claim hotly denied by rail unions.
>
>Force majeure clauses usually apply to situations where a party cannot
>fulfil their obligations because of unexpected circumstances outside their
>control. One such event occurred in the rail industry in February when
>storms battered Britain.
>
>Industry sources questioned whether Avanti would succeed in its claim, as
>the shortage of drivers is a chronic problem and train companies have long
>relied on the goodwill of staff to work overtime.
>
><https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b349ff96-3bfb-11ed-8e9a-562640d83f98?shareToken=1ab42d8efd0c1ee2da470141aeb3fdf7>
>
I thought the franchise had come to an end, replaced by a management
contract. Do the same 'performance targets' as such still apply? I
thought Network Rail set the timetable and DfT retained the farebox
revenue and Avanti operated the service under contract. Maybe this is
over-simplistic.

In message <dbpajhpnje4u153u2ssu4nc594hgtbarp0@4ax.com>, at 10:32:04 on
Thu, 29 Sep 2022, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>On Sun, 25 Sep 2022 04:24:03 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
><recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Embattled train company Avanti has asked the Department for Transport for
>>permission to declare “force majeure” on its struggling West Coast line in
>>a move that could set a precedent for the rail industry.
>>
>>A declaration of force majeure would absolve Avanti from having to meet
>>performance targets on the line and help it avoid penalties for failing to
>>make trains run to schedule.
>>
>>The operator axed scores of trains on the busy London to Manchester route
>>in August after drivers stopped working overtime. Avanti blamed
>>“unofficial” industrial action for the shortage of available train crew, a
>>claim hotly denied by rail unions.
>>
>>Force majeure clauses usually apply to situations where a party cannot
>>fulfil their obligations because of unexpected circumstances outside their
>>control. One such event occurred in the rail industry in February when
>>storms battered Britain.
>>
>>Industry sources questioned whether Avanti would succeed in its claim, as
>>the shortage of drivers is a chronic problem and train companies have long
>>relied on the goodwill of staff to work overtime.
>>
>><https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/b349ff96-3bfb-11ed-8e9a-562640d83f9
>>8?shareToken=1ab42d8efd0c1ee2da470141aeb3fdf7>
>>
>I thought the franchise had come to an end, replaced by a management
>contract. Do the same 'performance targets' as such still apply? I
>thought Network Rail set the timetable and DfT retained the farebox
>revenue and Avanti operated the service under contract. Maybe this is
>over-simplistic.

Perhaps the problem here is that Avanti aren't delivering on that
service contract?
--
Roland Perry