On 22/05/2021 10:27, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <s88i6c$r24$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:04:44 on Fri, 21 May
>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <s87pfl$2ll$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:03:01 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> they were also attempting to rationalise down to a single
>>>>>>> operator per London terminus, which they achieved at Liverpool St, but
>>>>>>> was structurally impossible at Kings Cross.
>>>>>
>>>>> ...
>>>>>
>>>>>> They never quite managed it at Paddington either, Crossrail appearing
>>>>>> before HEx became gWr.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then there's Heathrow Connect, which was in a category all of its own.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if GBR will keep the branding of Stansted Express and Gatwick
>>>>> Express? (And Heathrow Express, which may be operating until at least
>>>>> 2028).
>>>>
>>>> HEx is a private open access operator, which will surely keep its branding
>>>> as long as it survives.
>>>
>>> Though with operation now sub-contracted to gWr (and crews TUPEd across);
>>> so in future presumably effectively GBR operating an open access operator's
>>> trains for them?!?
>>
>> No, it'll be whoever the concession holder is for gWr operating the
>> trains.
>
> But they'll be under contract to GBR, yes? And operating an OAO's trains.
>
>> Whether GBR takes over as the "controlling mind" for HEx is a
>> question similar to the one I've posted earlier about some of the
>> currently PTE-controlled services.
>
> What do you mean by 'controlling mind'? Do you mean GBR buying HEx off HAL?
>
>
> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>

What's going to happen with the London Underground? Will it remain under
TfL management or will that also go? What about the RER-types, such as
Thameslink and Crossrail?

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 22/05/2021 10:27, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <s88i6c$r24$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:04:44 on Fri, 21 May
>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <s87pfl$2ll$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:03:01 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> they were also attempting to rationalise down to a single
>>>>>>>> operator per London terminus, which they achieved at Liverpool St, but
>>>>>>>> was structurally impossible at Kings Cross.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They never quite managed it at Paddington either, Crossrail appearing
>>>>>>> before HEx became gWr.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then there's Heathrow Connect, which was in a category all of its own.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder if GBR will keep the branding of Stansted Express and Gatwick
>>>>>> Express? (And Heathrow Express, which may be operating until at least
>>>>>> 2028).
>>>>>
>>>>> HEx is a private open access operator, which will surely keep its branding
>>>>> as long as it survives.
>>>>
>>>> Though with operation now sub-contracted to gWr (and crews TUPEd across);
>>>> so in future presumably effectively GBR operating an open access operator's
>>>> trains for them?!?
>>>
>>> No, it'll be whoever the concession holder is for gWr operating the
>>> trains.
>>
>> But they'll be under contract to GBR, yes? And operating an OAO's trains.
>>
>>> Whether GBR takes over as the "controlling mind" for HEx is a
>>> question similar to the one I've posted earlier about some of the
>>> currently PTE-controlled services.
>>
>> What do you mean by 'controlling mind'? Do you mean GBR buying HEx off HAL?
>>
>>
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>
>
> What's going to happen with the London Underground? Will it remain under
> TfL management or will that also go? What about the RER-types, such as
> Thameslink and Crossrail?
>

There won't be any change with LU, TL or Crossrail. I also expect no change
with LO, apart from perhaps some modest growth if more suburban lines are
transferred to it (such as the GN Moorgate line). I'm also expecting no
change with Merseyrail or any of the light rail systems.

This is simply the redesign of the previous main line franchising system.
It was already in big trouble before Covid killed it altogether.

On 24/05/2021 20:37, Recliner wrote:
> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 22/05/2021 10:27, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <s88i6c$r24$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:04:44 on Fri, 21 May
>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <s87pfl$2ll$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:03:01 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> they were also attempting to rationalise down to a single
>>>>>>>>> operator per London terminus, which they achieved at Liverpool St, but
>>>>>>>>> was structurally impossible at Kings Cross.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They never quite managed it at Paddington either, Crossrail appearing
>>>>>>>> before HEx became gWr.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then there's Heathrow Connect, which was in a category all of its own.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wonder if GBR will keep the branding of Stansted Express and Gatwick
>>>>>>> Express? (And Heathrow Express, which may be operating until at least
>>>>>>> 2028).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HEx is a private open access operator, which will surely keep its branding
>>>>>> as long as it survives.
>>>>>
>>>>> Though with operation now sub-contracted to gWr (and crews TUPEd across);
>>>>> so in future presumably effectively GBR operating an open access operator's
>>>>> trains for them?!?
>>>>
>>>> No, it'll be whoever the concession holder is for gWr operating the
>>>> trains.
>>>
>>> But they'll be under contract to GBR, yes? And operating an OAO's trains.
>>>
>>>> Whether GBR takes over as the "controlling mind" for HEx is a
>>>> question similar to the one I've posted earlier about some of the
>>>> currently PTE-controlled services.
>>>
>>> What do you mean by 'controlling mind'? Do you mean GBR buying HEx off HAL?
>>>
>>>
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>
>>
>> What's going to happen with the London Underground? Will it remain under
>> TfL management or will that also go? What about the RER-types, such as
>> Thameslink and Crossrail?
>>
>
> There won't be any change with LU,

I was not thinking of LU, Glasgow Subway or any of the light rail lines

> TL or Crossrail. I also expect no change
> with LO,

That's what interested me.

> apart from perhaps some modest growth if more suburban lines are
> transferred to it (such as the GN Moorgate line).

Perhaps this will expedite the TfL taking over the Northern City Line?

> I'm also expecting no
> change with Merseyrail

I had not thought about that one, I must admit.

> This is simply the redesign of the previous main line franchising system.
> It was already in big trouble before Covid killed it altogether.

Ooh, I know.

On 24/05/2021 19:26, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
> On 22/05/2021 10:27, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <s88i6c$r24$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:04:44 on Fri, 21 May
>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <s87pfl$2ll$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:03:01 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> they were also attempting to rationalise down to a single
>>>>>>>> operator per London terminus, which they achieved at Liverpool
>>>>>>>> St, but
>>>>>>>> was structurally impossible at Kings Cross.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> They never quite managed it at Paddington either, Crossrail
>>>>>>> appearing
>>>>>>> before HEx became gWr.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then there's Heathrow Connect, which was in a category all of its
>>>>>> own.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wonder if GBR will keep the branding of Stansted Express and
>>>>>> Gatwick
>>>>>> Express? (And Heathrow Express, which may be operating until at least
>>>>>> 2028).
>>>>>
>>>>> HEx is a private open access operator, which will surely keep its
>>>>> branding
>>>>> as long as it survives.
>>>>
>>>> Though with operation now sub-contracted to gWr (and crews TUPEd
>>>> across);
>>>> so in future presumably effectively GBR operating an open access
>>>> operator's
>>>> trains for them?!?
>>>
>>> No, it'll be whoever the concession holder is for gWr operating the
>>> trains.
>>
>> But they'll be under contract to GBR, yes? And operating an OAO's trains.
>>
>>> Whether GBR takes over as the "controlling mind" for HEx is a
>>> question similar to the one I've posted earlier about some of the
>>> currently PTE-controlled services.
>>
>> What do you mean by 'controlling mind'? Do you mean GBR buying HEx off
>> HAL?
>>
>>
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>
>
> What's going to happen with the London Underground? Will it remain under
> TfL management or will that also go? What about the RER-types, such as
> Thameslink and Crossrail?

My best guess is that the present Westminster government intend to take
direct control.

On Mon, 24 May 2021 23:59:57 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
<hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>On 24/05/2021 20:37, Recliner wrote:
>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 22/05/2021 10:27, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <s88i6c$r24$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:04:44 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <s87pfl$2ll$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:03:01 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> they were also attempting to rationalise down to a single
>>>>>>>>>> operator per London terminus, which they achieved at Liverpool St, but
>>>>>>>>>> was structurally impossible at Kings Cross.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They never quite managed it at Paddington either, Crossrail appearing
>>>>>>>>> before HEx became gWr.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Then there's Heathrow Connect, which was in a category all of its own.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wonder if GBR will keep the branding of Stansted Express and Gatwick
>>>>>>>> Express? (And Heathrow Express, which may be operating until at least
>>>>>>>> 2028).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> HEx is a private open access operator, which will surely keep its branding
>>>>>>> as long as it survives.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Though with operation now sub-contracted to gWr (and crews TUPEd across);
>>>>>> so in future presumably effectively GBR operating an open access operator's
>>>>>> trains for them?!?
>>>>>
>>>>> No, it'll be whoever the concession holder is for gWr operating the
>>>>> trains.
>>>>
>>>> But they'll be under contract to GBR, yes? And operating an OAO's trains.
>>>>
>>>>> Whether GBR takes over as the "controlling mind" for HEx is a
>>>>> question similar to the one I've posted earlier about some of the
>>>>> currently PTE-controlled services.
>>>>
>>>> What do you mean by 'controlling mind'? Do you mean GBR buying HEx off HAL?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>
>>>
>>> What's going to happen with the London Underground? Will it remain under
>>> TfL management or will that also go? What about the RER-types, such as
>>> Thameslink and Crossrail?
>>>
>>
>> There won't be any change with LU,
>
>I was not thinking of LU, Glasgow Subway or any of the light rail lines
>
>> TL or Crossrail. I also expect no change
>> with LO,
>
>That's what interested me.
>
>> apart from perhaps some modest growth if more suburban lines are
>> transferred to it (such as the GN Moorgate line).
>
>Perhaps this will expedite the TfL taking over the Northern City Line?
>
Not much point, it went to BR because it was isolated from the rest of
LU because of Northern Line extensions that were never built.
<snip>

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 24/05/2021 20:37, Recliner wrote:
>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 22/05/2021 10:27, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <s88i6c$r24$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:04:44 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <s87pfl$2ll$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:03:01 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> they were also attempting to rationalise down to a single
>>>>>>>>>> operator per London terminus, which they achieved at Liverpool St, but
>>>>>>>>>> was structurally impossible at Kings Cross.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> They never quite managed it at Paddington either, Crossrail appearing
>>>>>>>>> before HEx became gWr.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Then there's Heathrow Connect, which was in a category all of its own.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wonder if GBR will keep the branding of Stansted Express and Gatwick
>>>>>>>> Express? (And Heathrow Express, which may be operating until at least
>>>>>>>> 2028).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> HEx is a private open access operator, which will surely keep its branding
>>>>>>> as long as it survives.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Though with operation now sub-contracted to gWr (and crews TUPEd across);
>>>>>> so in future presumably effectively GBR operating an open access operator's
>>>>>> trains for them?!?
>>>>>
>>>>> No, it'll be whoever the concession holder is for gWr operating the
>>>>> trains.
>>>>
>>>> But they'll be under contract to GBR, yes? And operating an OAO's trains.
>>>>
>>>>> Whether GBR takes over as the "controlling mind" for HEx is a
>>>>> question similar to the one I've posted earlier about some of the
>>>>> currently PTE-controlled services.
>>>>
>>>> What do you mean by 'controlling mind'? Do you mean GBR buying HEx off HAL?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>
>>>
>>> What's going to happen with the London Underground? Will it remain under
>>> TfL management or will that also go? What about the RER-types, such as
>>> Thameslink and Crossrail?
>>>
>>
>> There won't be any change with LU,
>
> I was not thinking of LU, Glasgow Subway or any of the light rail lines

In which case, why did you ask, "What's going to happen with the London
Underground?"

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 24/05/2021 19:26, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>> On 22/05/2021 10:27, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <s88i6c$r24$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:04:44 on Fri, 21 May
>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <s87pfl$2ll$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:03:01 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> they were also attempting to rationalise down to a single
>>>>>>>>> operator per London terminus, which they achieved at Liverpool
>>>>>>>>> St, but
>>>>>>>>> was structurally impossible at Kings Cross.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They never quite managed it at Paddington either, Crossrail
>>>>>>>> appearing
>>>>>>>> before HEx became gWr.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then there's Heathrow Connect, which was in a category all of its
>>>>>>> own.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wonder if GBR will keep the branding of Stansted Express and
>>>>>>> Gatwick
>>>>>>> Express? (And Heathrow Express, which may be operating until at least
>>>>>>> 2028).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HEx is a private open access operator, which will surely keep its
>>>>>> branding
>>>>>> as long as it survives.
>>>>>
>>>>> Though with operation now sub-contracted to gWr (and crews TUPEd
>>>>> across);
>>>>> so in future presumably effectively GBR operating an open access
>>>>> operator's
>>>>> trains for them?!?
>>>>
>>>> No, it'll be whoever the concession holder is for gWr operating the
>>>> trains.
>>>
>>> But they'll be under contract to GBR, yes? And operating an OAO's trains.
>>>
>>>> Whether GBR takes over as the "controlling mind" for HEx is a
>>>> question similar to the one I've posted earlier about some of the
>>>> currently PTE-controlled services.
>>>
>>> What do you mean by 'controlling mind'? Do you mean GBR buying HEx off
>>> HAL?
>>>
>>>
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>
>>
>> What's going to happen with the London Underground? Will it remain under
>> TfL management or will that also go? What about the RER-types, such as
>> Thameslink and Crossrail?
>
> My best guess is that the present Westminster government intend to take
> direct control.
>

No, Boris wants to be able to keep attacking his successor.

Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 24 May 2021 23:59:57 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 24/05/2021 20:37, Recliner wrote:
>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 22/05/2021 10:27, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <s88i6c$r24$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:04:44 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <s87pfl$2ll$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:03:01 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> they were also attempting to rationalise down to a single
>>>>>>>>>>> operator per London terminus, which they achieved at Liverpool St, but
>>>>>>>>>>> was structurally impossible at Kings Cross.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> They never quite managed it at Paddington either, Crossrail appearing
>>>>>>>>>> before HEx became gWr.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Then there's Heathrow Connect, which was in a category all of its own.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I wonder if GBR will keep the branding of Stansted Express and Gatwick
>>>>>>>>> Express? (And Heathrow Express, which may be operating until at least
>>>>>>>>> 2028).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> HEx is a private open access operator, which will surely keep its branding
>>>>>>>> as long as it survives.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Though with operation now sub-contracted to gWr (and crews TUPEd across);
>>>>>>> so in future presumably effectively GBR operating an open access operator's
>>>>>>> trains for them?!?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, it'll be whoever the concession holder is for gWr operating the
>>>>>> trains.
>>>>>
>>>>> But they'll be under contract to GBR, yes? And operating an OAO's trains.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Whether GBR takes over as the "controlling mind" for HEx is a
>>>>>> question similar to the one I've posted earlier about some of the
>>>>>> currently PTE-controlled services.
>>>>>
>>>>> What do you mean by 'controlling mind'? Do you mean GBR buying HEx off HAL?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What's going to happen with the London Underground? Will it remain under
>>>> TfL management or will that also go? What about the RER-types, such as
>>>> Thameslink and Crossrail?
>>>>
>>>
>>> There won't be any change with LU,
>>
>> I was not thinking of LU, Glasgow Subway or any of the light rail lines
>>
>>> TL or Crossrail. I also expect no change
>>> with LO,
>>
>> That's what interested me.
>>
>>> apart from perhaps some modest growth if more suburban lines are
>>> transferred to it (such as the GN Moorgate line).
>>
>> Perhaps this will expedite the TfL taking over the Northern City Line?
>>
> Not much point, it went to BR because it was isolated from the rest of
> LU because of Northern Line extensions that were never built.
> <snip>
>

Would it have gone over if the construction of the Victoria line hadn’t
curtailed it and isolated it even further leading to those intermittent
battery hauled workings for stock transfer over the otherwise disused line
via Crouch End that is now the Parkland Walk?

GH

Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 May 2021 23:59:57 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 24/05/2021 20:37, Recliner wrote:
>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 22/05/2021 10:27, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <s88i6c$r24$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:04:44 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message <s87pfl$2ll$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:03:01 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> they were also attempting to rationalise down to a single
>>>>>>>>>>>> operator per London terminus, which they achieved at Liverpool St, but
>>>>>>>>>>>> was structurally impossible at Kings Cross.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> They never quite managed it at Paddington either, Crossrail appearing
>>>>>>>>>>> before HEx became gWr.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Then there's Heathrow Connect, which was in a category all of its own.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if GBR will keep the branding of Stansted Express and Gatwick
>>>>>>>>>> Express? (And Heathrow Express, which may be operating until at least
>>>>>>>>>> 2028).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> HEx is a private open access operator, which will surely keep its branding
>>>>>>>>> as long as it survives.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Though with operation now sub-contracted to gWr (and crews TUPEd across);
>>>>>>>> so in future presumably effectively GBR operating an open access operator's
>>>>>>>> trains for them?!?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, it'll be whoever the concession holder is for gWr operating the
>>>>>>> trains.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But they'll be under contract to GBR, yes? And operating an OAO's trains.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whether GBR takes over as the "controlling mind" for HEx is a
>>>>>>> question similar to the one I've posted earlier about some of the
>>>>>>> currently PTE-controlled services.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you mean by 'controlling mind'? Do you mean GBR buying HEx off HAL?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What's going to happen with the London Underground? Will it remain under
>>>>> TfL management or will that also go? What about the RER-types, such as
>>>>> Thameslink and Crossrail?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There won't be any change with LU,
>>>
>>> I was not thinking of LU, Glasgow Subway or any of the light rail lines
>>>
>>>> TL or Crossrail. I also expect no change
>>>> with LO,
>>>
>>> That's what interested me.
>>>
>>>> apart from perhaps some modest growth if more suburban lines are
>>>> transferred to it (such as the GN Moorgate line).
>>>
>>> Perhaps this will expedite the TfL taking over the Northern City Line?
>>>
>> Not much point, it went to BR because it was isolated from the rest of
>> LU because of Northern Line extensions that were never built.
>> <snip>
>>
>
> Would it have gone over if the construction of the Victoria line hadn’t
> curtailed it and isolated it even further leading to those intermittent
> battery hauled workings for stock transfer over the otherwise disused line
> via Crouch End that is now the Parkland Walk?
>

When first built in 1994, the expectation was that it would be connected to
the ECML north of Finsbury Park, but the mainline companies failed to reach
an agreement and the connection was not made. It was subsequently taken
over by the Metropolitan Railway, which planned to connect it to its own
Circle Line tracks, but that also didn't happen. Subsequently, LT planned
to connect it to the Northern Line at Highgate, but that didn't happen
either. In a further indignity, it lost its link to Finsbury Park in the
1960s and became a real, unloved orphan, before suffering the worst LU
peacetime crash in 1975.

Finally, a mere 70 years late, it got its connection to the ECML at
Finsbury Park in 1976, and transferred to BR. At last the line had the
through, mainline trains it was designed for. Things were looking up.

But, after an NSE tart-up, it became increasingly scruffy, with infrequent,
tatty trains running through scruffy stations. It's probably in the best
state it's ever been now, with brand-new 6-car trains and cleaned-up
stations.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 24 May 2021 23:59:57 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>>> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 24/05/2021 20:37, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 22/05/2021 10:27, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <s88i6c$r24$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:04:44 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In message <s87pfl$2ll$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:03:01 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they were also attempting to rationalise down to a single
>>>>>>>>>>>>> operator per London terminus, which they achieved at Liverpool St, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was structurally impossible at Kings Cross.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> They never quite managed it at Paddington either, Crossrail appearing
>>>>>>>>>>>> before HEx became gWr.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Then there's Heathrow Connect, which was in a category all of its own.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if GBR will keep the branding of Stansted Express and Gatwick
>>>>>>>>>>> Express? (And Heathrow Express, which may be operating until at least
>>>>>>>>>>> 2028).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> HEx is a private open access operator, which will surely keep its branding
>>>>>>>>>> as long as it survives.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Though with operation now sub-contracted to gWr (and crews TUPEd across);
>>>>>>>>> so in future presumably effectively GBR operating an open access operator's
>>>>>>>>> trains for them?!?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, it'll be whoever the concession holder is for gWr operating the
>>>>>>>> trains.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But they'll be under contract to GBR, yes? And operating an OAO's trains.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Whether GBR takes over as the "controlling mind" for HEx is a
>>>>>>>> question similar to the one I've posted earlier about some of the
>>>>>>>> currently PTE-controlled services.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do you mean by 'controlling mind'? Do you mean GBR buying HEx off HAL?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What's going to happen with the London Underground? Will it remain under
>>>>>> TfL management or will that also go? What about the RER-types, such as
>>>>>> Thameslink and Crossrail?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There won't be any change with LU,
>>>>
>>>> I was not thinking of LU, Glasgow Subway or any of the light rail lines
>>>>
>>>>> TL or Crossrail. I also expect no change
>>>>> with LO,
>>>>
>>>> That's what interested me.
>>>>
>>>>> apart from perhaps some modest growth if more suburban lines are
>>>>> transferred to it (such as the GN Moorgate line).
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps this will expedite the TfL taking over the Northern City Line?
>>>>
>>> Not much point, it went to BR because it was isolated from the rest of
>>> LU because of Northern Line extensions that were never built.
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>
>> Would it have gone over if the construction of the Victoria line hadn’t
>> curtailed it and isolated it even further leading to those intermittent
>> battery hauled workings for stock transfer over the otherwise disused line
>> via Crouch End that is now the Parkland Walk?
>>
>
> When first built in 1994,
1904 of course
> the expectation was that it would be connected to
> the ECML north of Finsbury Park, but the mainline companies failed to reach
> an agreement and the connection was not made. It was subsequently taken
> over by the Metropolitan Railway, which planned to connect it to its own
> Circle Line tracks, but that also didn't happen. Subsequently, LT planned
> to connect it to the Northern Line at Highgate, but that didn't happen
> either. In a further indignity, it lost its link to Finsbury Park in the
> 1960s and became a real, unloved orphan, before suffering the worst LU
> peacetime crash in 1975.
>
> Finally, a mere 70 years late, it got its connection to the ECML at
> Finsbury Park in 1976, and transferred to BR. At last the line had the
> through, mainline trains it was designed for. Things were looking up.
>
> But, after an NSE tart-up, it became increasingly scruffy, with infrequent,
> tatty trains running through scruffy stations. It's probably in the best
> state it's ever been now, with brand-new 6-car trains and cleaned-up
> stations.
>

On 25/05/2021 00:25, Charles Ellson wrote:
> On Mon, 24 May 2021 23:59:57 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 24/05/2021 20:37, Recliner wrote:
>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 22/05/2021 10:27, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <s88i6c$r24$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:04:44 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <s87pfl$2ll$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:03:01 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> they were also attempting to rationalise down to a single
>>>>>>>>>>> operator per London terminus, which they achieved at Liverpool St, but
>>>>>>>>>>> was structurally impossible at Kings Cross.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> They never quite managed it at Paddington either, Crossrail appearing
>>>>>>>>>> before HEx became gWr.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Then there's Heathrow Connect, which was in a category all of its own.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I wonder if GBR will keep the branding of Stansted Express and Gatwick
>>>>>>>>> Express? (And Heathrow Express, which may be operating until at least
>>>>>>>>> 2028).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> HEx is a private open access operator, which will surely keep its branding
>>>>>>>> as long as it survives.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Though with operation now sub-contracted to gWr (and crews TUPEd across);
>>>>>>> so in future presumably effectively GBR operating an open access operator's
>>>>>>> trains for them?!?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, it'll be whoever the concession holder is for gWr operating the
>>>>>> trains.
>>>>>
>>>>> But they'll be under contract to GBR, yes? And operating an OAO's trains.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Whether GBR takes over as the "controlling mind" for HEx is a
>>>>>> question similar to the one I've posted earlier about some of the
>>>>>> currently PTE-controlled services.
>>>>>
>>>>> What do you mean by 'controlling mind'? Do you mean GBR buying HEx off HAL?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What's going to happen with the London Underground? Will it remain under
>>>> TfL management or will that also go? What about the RER-types, such as
>>>> Thameslink and Crossrail?
>>>>
>>>
>>> There won't be any change with LU,
>>
>> I was not thinking of LU, Glasgow Subway or any of the light rail lines
>>
>>> TL or Crossrail. I also expect no change
>>> with LO,
>>
>> That's what interested me.
>>
>>> apart from perhaps some modest growth if more suburban lines are
>>> transferred to it (such as the GN Moorgate line).
>>
>> Perhaps this will expedite the TfL taking over the Northern City Line?
>>
> Not much point, it went to BR because it was isolated from the rest of
> LU because of Northern Line extensions that were never built.
> <snip>
>
I don't mean that TfL would take over the Northern City Line as part of
the Underground line, but rather as a suburban line.

On 25/05/2021 01:32, Recliner wrote:
> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 24/05/2021 20:37, Recliner wrote:
>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 22/05/2021 10:27, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <s88i6c$r24$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:04:44 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <s87pfl$2ll$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:03:01 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> they were also attempting to rationalise down to a single
>>>>>>>>>>> operator per London terminus, which they achieved at Liverpool St, but
>>>>>>>>>>> was structurally impossible at Kings Cross.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> They never quite managed it at Paddington either, Crossrail appearing
>>>>>>>>>> before HEx became gWr.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Then there's Heathrow Connect, which was in a category all of its own.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I wonder if GBR will keep the branding of Stansted Express and Gatwick
>>>>>>>>> Express? (And Heathrow Express, which may be operating until at least
>>>>>>>>> 2028).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> HEx is a private open access operator, which will surely keep its branding
>>>>>>>> as long as it survives.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Though with operation now sub-contracted to gWr (and crews TUPEd across);
>>>>>>> so in future presumably effectively GBR operating an open access operator's
>>>>>>> trains for them?!?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, it'll be whoever the concession holder is for gWr operating the
>>>>>> trains.
>>>>>
>>>>> But they'll be under contract to GBR, yes? And operating an OAO's trains.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Whether GBR takes over as the "controlling mind" for HEx is a
>>>>>> question similar to the one I've posted earlier about some of the
>>>>>> currently PTE-controlled services.
>>>>>
>>>>> What do you mean by 'controlling mind'? Do you mean GBR buying HEx off HAL?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What's going to happen with the London Underground? Will it remain under
>>>> TfL management or will that also go? What about the RER-types, such as
>>>> Thameslink and Crossrail?
>>>>
>>>
>>> There won't be any change with LU,
>>
>> I was not thinking of LU, Glasgow Subway or any of the light rail lines
>
> In which case, why did you ask, "What's going to happen with the London
> Underground?"
>
My mistake. I meant London Overground.

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 25/05/2021 00:25, Charles Ellson wrote:
>> On Mon, 24 May 2021 23:59:57 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 24/05/2021 20:37, Recliner wrote:
>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 22/05/2021 10:27, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <s88i6c$r24$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:04:44 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message <s87pfl$2ll$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:03:01 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> they were also attempting to rationalise down to a single
>>>>>>>>>>>> operator per London terminus, which they achieved at Liverpool St, but
>>>>>>>>>>>> was structurally impossible at Kings Cross.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> They never quite managed it at Paddington either, Crossrail appearing
>>>>>>>>>>> before HEx became gWr.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Then there's Heathrow Connect, which was in a category all of its own.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if GBR will keep the branding of Stansted Express and Gatwick
>>>>>>>>>> Express? (And Heathrow Express, which may be operating until at least
>>>>>>>>>> 2028).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> HEx is a private open access operator, which will surely keep its branding
>>>>>>>>> as long as it survives.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Though with operation now sub-contracted to gWr (and crews TUPEd across);
>>>>>>>> so in future presumably effectively GBR operating an open access operator's
>>>>>>>> trains for them?!?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No, it'll be whoever the concession holder is for gWr operating the
>>>>>>> trains.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But they'll be under contract to GBR, yes? And operating an OAO's trains.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whether GBR takes over as the "controlling mind" for HEx is a
>>>>>>> question similar to the one I've posted earlier about some of the
>>>>>>> currently PTE-controlled services.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you mean by 'controlling mind'? Do you mean GBR buying HEx off HAL?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What's going to happen with the London Underground? Will it remain under
>>>>> TfL management or will that also go? What about the RER-types, such as
>>>>> Thameslink and Crossrail?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There won't be any change with LU,
>>>
>>> I was not thinking of LU, Glasgow Subway or any of the light rail lines
>>>
>>>> TL or Crossrail. I also expect no change
>>>> with LO,
>>>
>>> That's what interested me.
>>>
>>>> apart from perhaps some modest growth if more suburban lines are
>>>> transferred to it (such as the GN Moorgate line).
>>>
>>> Perhaps this will expedite the TfL taking over the Northern City Line?
>>>
>> Not much point, it went to BR because it was isolated from the rest of
>> LU because of Northern Line extensions that were never built.
>> <snip>
>>
> I don't mean that TfL would take over the Northern City Line as part of
> the Underground line, but rather as a suburban line.
>

Yes, and its transfer to LO is quite likely.

eRecliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 24 May 2021 23:59:57 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>>> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 24/05/2021 20:37, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 22/05/2021 10:27, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <s88i6c$r24$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:04:44 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In message <s87pfl$2ll$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:03:01 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they were also attempting to rationalise down to a single
>>>>>>>>>>>>> operator per London terminus, which they achieved at Liverpool St, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was structurally impossible at Kings Cross.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> They never quite managed it at Paddington either, Crossrail appearing
>>>>>>>>>>>> before HEx became gWr.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Then there's Heathrow Connect, which was in a category all of its own.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if GBR will keep the branding of Stansted Express and Gatwick
>>>>>>>>>>> Express? (And Heathrow Express, which may be operating until at least
>>>>>>>>>>> 2028).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> HEx is a private open access operator, which will surely keep its branding
>>>>>>>>>> as long as it survives.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Though with operation now sub-contracted to gWr (and crews TUPEd across);
>>>>>>>>> so in future presumably effectively GBR operating an open access operator's
>>>>>>>>> trains for them?!?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, it'll be whoever the concession holder is for gWr operating the
>>>>>>>> trains.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But they'll be under contract to GBR, yes? And operating an OAO's trains.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Whether GBR takes over as the "controlling mind" for HEx is a
>>>>>>>> question similar to the one I've posted earlier about some of the
>>>>>>>> currently PTE-controlled services.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do you mean by 'controlling mind'? Do you mean GBR buying HEx off HAL?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What's going to happen with the London Underground? Will it remain under
>>>>>> TfL management or will that also go? What about the RER-types, such as
>>>>>> Thameslink and Crossrail?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There won't be any change with LU,
>>>>
>>>> I was not thinking of LU, Glasgow Subway or any of the light rail lines
>>>>
>>>>> TL or Crossrail. I also expect no change
>>>>> with LO,
>>>>
>>>> That's what interested me.
>>>>
>>>>> apart from perhaps some modest growth if more suburban lines are
>>>>> transferred to it (such as the GN Moorgate line).
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps this will expedite the TfL taking over the Northern City Line?
>>>>
>>> Not much point, it went to BR because it was isolated from the rest of
>>> LU because of Northern Line extensions that were never built.
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>
>> Would it have gone over if the construction of the Victoria line hadn’t
>> curtailed it and isolated it even further leading to those intermittent
>> battery hauled workings for stock transfer over the otherwise disused line
>> via Crouch End that is now the Parkland Walk?
>>
>
> When first built in 1994, the expectation was that it would be connected to
> the ECML north of Finsbury Park, but the mainline companies failed to reach
> an agreement and the connection was not made. It was subsequently taken
> over by the Metropolitan Railway, which planned to connect it to its own
> Circle Line tracks,
I knew the Met had taken it over but did not know about plan to connect it
to the circle.

Photos of the GN& City stock are easy enough to find but few show much of
the point work,
I would like to see how the conductor rails were arranged as till it became
part of the Northern
it had the unusual arrangement of having both positive and negative rails
outside the running rails an arrangement which the MET and District had
used for their experimental electric train between Earls Court and
Kensington, and I have read that the SECR were considering that
arrangement as well for their proposed but never progressed
electrification. in their case the potential between them would have been
1500Volts.

> But, after an NSE tart-up, it became increasingly scruffy, with infrequent,
> tatty trains running through scruffy stations. It's probably in the best
> state it's ever been now, with brand-new 6-car trains and cleaned-up
> stations.
>
I never got to travel on it till about six years ago when the other halfs
brother moved to Finsbury Park
and we took that route to see what it was like, certainly was. getting
tatty and on my last use of it about 30 months ago it was even worse though
Essex Road was an interesting throwback to Network SouthEast. Now it has
been refurbished relics of that era must be getting few.

GH

On 25/05/2021 15:25, Recliner wrote:
> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 25/05/2021 00:25, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>> On Mon, 24 May 2021 23:59:57 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>>> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 24/05/2021 20:37, Recliner wrote:
>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> On 22/05/2021 10:27, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <s88i6c$r24$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:04:44 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In message <s87pfl$2ll$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:03:01 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> they were also attempting to rationalise down to a single
>>>>>>>>>>>>> operator per London terminus, which they achieved at Liverpool St, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was structurally impossible at Kings Cross.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> They never quite managed it at Paddington either, Crossrail appearing
>>>>>>>>>>>> before HEx became gWr.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Then there's Heathrow Connect, which was in a category all of its own.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if GBR will keep the branding of Stansted Express and Gatwick
>>>>>>>>>>> Express? (And Heathrow Express, which may be operating until at least
>>>>>>>>>>> 2028).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> HEx is a private open access operator, which will surely keep its branding
>>>>>>>>>> as long as it survives.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Though with operation now sub-contracted to gWr (and crews TUPEd across);
>>>>>>>>> so in future presumably effectively GBR operating an open access operator's
>>>>>>>>> trains for them?!?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> No, it'll be whoever the concession holder is for gWr operating the
>>>>>>>> trains.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But they'll be under contract to GBR, yes? And operating an OAO's trains.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Whether GBR takes over as the "controlling mind" for HEx is a
>>>>>>>> question similar to the one I've posted earlier about some of the
>>>>>>>> currently PTE-controlled services.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do you mean by 'controlling mind'? Do you mean GBR buying HEx off HAL?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What's going to happen with the London Underground? Will it remain under
>>>>>> TfL management or will that also go? What about the RER-types, such as
>>>>>> Thameslink and Crossrail?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There won't be any change with LU,
>>>>
>>>> I was not thinking of LU, Glasgow Subway or any of the light rail lines
>>>>
>>>>> TL or Crossrail. I also expect no change
>>>>> with LO,
>>>>
>>>> That's what interested me.
>>>>
>>>>> apart from perhaps some modest growth if more suburban lines are
>>>>> transferred to it (such as the GN Moorgate line).
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps this will expedite the TfL taking over the Northern City Line?
>>>>
>>> Not much point, it went to BR because it was isolated from the rest of
>>> LU because of Northern Line extensions that were never built.
>>> <snip>
>>>
>> I don't mean that TfL would take over the Northern City Line as part of
>> the Underground line, but rather as a suburban line.
>>
>
> Yes, and its transfer to LO is quite likely.
>

Thus, I thought that the revamp might make expedite this happening.

I believe that TfL is also licking its lips for TL?

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 25/05/2021 15:25, Recliner wrote:
>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 25/05/2021 00:25, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 24 May 2021 23:59:57 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>>>> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 24/05/2021 20:37, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 22/05/2021 10:27, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <s88i6c$r24$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:04:44 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> In message <s87pfl$2ll$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:03:01 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they were also attempting to rationalise down to a single
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> operator per London terminus, which they achieved at Liverpool St, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was structurally impossible at Kings Cross.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> They never quite managed it at Paddington either, Crossrail appearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>> before HEx became gWr.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Then there's Heathrow Connect, which was in a category all of its own.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if GBR will keep the branding of Stansted Express and Gatwick
>>>>>>>>>>>> Express? (And Heathrow Express, which may be operating until at least
>>>>>>>>>>>> 2028).
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> HEx is a private open access operator, which will surely keep its branding
>>>>>>>>>>> as long as it survives.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Though with operation now sub-contracted to gWr (and crews TUPEd across);
>>>>>>>>>> so in future presumably effectively GBR operating an open access operator's
>>>>>>>>>> trains for them?!?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> No, it'll be whoever the concession holder is for gWr operating the
>>>>>>>>> trains.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But they'll be under contract to GBR, yes? And operating an OAO's trains.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Whether GBR takes over as the "controlling mind" for HEx is a
>>>>>>>>> question similar to the one I've posted earlier about some of the
>>>>>>>>> currently PTE-controlled services.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What do you mean by 'controlling mind'? Do you mean GBR buying HEx off HAL?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What's going to happen with the London Underground? Will it remain under
>>>>>>> TfL management or will that also go? What about the RER-types, such as
>>>>>>> Thameslink and Crossrail?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There won't be any change with LU,
>>>>>
>>>>> I was not thinking of LU, Glasgow Subway or any of the light rail lines
>>>>>
>>>>>> TL or Crossrail. I also expect no change
>>>>>> with LO,
>>>>>
>>>>> That's what interested me.
>>>>>
>>>>>> apart from perhaps some modest growth if more suburban lines are
>>>>>> transferred to it (such as the GN Moorgate line).
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps this will expedite the TfL taking over the Northern City Line?
>>>>>
>>>> Not much point, it went to BR because it was isolated from the rest of
>>>> LU because of Northern Line extensions that were never built.
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>> I don't mean that TfL would take over the Northern City Line as part of
>>> the Underground line, but rather as a suburban line.
>>>
>>
>> Yes, and its transfer to LO is quite likely.
>>
>
> Thus, I thought that the revamp might make expedite this happening.
>
> I believe that TfL is also licking its lips for TL?
>

No, there is absolutely no evidence that the mayor or TfL has ever
expressed any such an interest. It's a rumour Roland started here just
recently, but it's completely untrue. In any case, taking over a few
suburban more routes is very low on TfL's priority list right now.

For TfL, surviving intact with sustainable financing, successfully opening
Crossrail and the Northern Line extension, re-starting the Drain,
completing the Bank and 4LM projects, introducing the 2024TS and extending
the order for the Central, W&C and Bakerloo lines are all much higher rail
priorities. Then there's the Piccadilly resignalling, splitting the
Northern line, re-starting the Night Tube, the Bakerloo extension, XR2…

On 25/05/2021 20:26, Recliner wrote:
> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 25/05/2021 15:25, Recliner wrote:
>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 25/05/2021 00:25, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 24 May 2021 23:59:57 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>>>>> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 24/05/2021 20:37, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 22/05/2021 10:27, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message <s88i6c$r24$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:04:44 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> In message <s87pfl$2ll$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:03:01 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they were also attempting to rationalise down to a single
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> operator per London terminus, which they achieved at Liverpool St, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was structurally impossible at Kings Cross.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They never quite managed it at Paddington either, Crossrail appearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before HEx became gWr.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then there's Heathrow Connect, which was in a category all of its own.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if GBR will keep the branding of Stansted Express and Gatwick
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Express? (And Heathrow Express, which may be operating until at least
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2028).
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> HEx is a private open access operator, which will surely keep its branding
>>>>>>>>>>>> as long as it survives.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Though with operation now sub-contracted to gWr (and crews TUPEd across);
>>>>>>>>>>> so in future presumably effectively GBR operating an open access operator's
>>>>>>>>>>> trains for them?!?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> No, it'll be whoever the concession holder is for gWr operating the
>>>>>>>>>> trains.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But they'll be under contract to GBR, yes? And operating an OAO's trains.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Whether GBR takes over as the "controlling mind" for HEx is a
>>>>>>>>>> question similar to the one I've posted earlier about some of the
>>>>>>>>>> currently PTE-controlled services.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What do you mean by 'controlling mind'? Do you mean GBR buying HEx off HAL?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> What's going to happen with the London Underground? Will it remain under
>>>>>>>> TfL management or will that also go? What about the RER-types, such as
>>>>>>>> Thameslink and Crossrail?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> There won't be any change with LU,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was not thinking of LU, Glasgow Subway or any of the light rail lines
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> TL or Crossrail. I also expect no change
>>>>>>> with LO,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's what interested me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> apart from perhaps some modest growth if more suburban lines are
>>>>>>> transferred to it (such as the GN Moorgate line).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps this will expedite the TfL taking over the Northern City Line?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Not much point, it went to BR because it was isolated from the rest of
>>>>> LU because of Northern Line extensions that were never built.
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>> I don't mean that TfL would take over the Northern City Line as part of
>>>> the Underground line, but rather as a suburban line.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, and its transfer to LO is quite likely.
>>>
>>
>> Thus, I thought that the revamp might make expedite this happening.
>>
>> I believe that TfL is also licking its lips for TL?
>>
>
> No, there is absolutely no evidence that the mayor or TfL has ever
> expressed any such an interest. It's a rumour Roland started here just
> recently, but it's completely untrue.

I apologise for perpetuating that rumour, particularly if it came from
others.

> In any case, taking over a few
> suburban more routes is very low on TfL's priority list right now.
>
Fair enough.

> For TfL, surviving intact with sustainable financing, successfully opening
> Crossrail and the Northern Line extension, re-starting the Drain,
> completing the Bank and 4LM projects,

What is 4LM?

> introducing the 2024TS and extending
> the order for the Central, W&C and Bakerloo lines are all much higher rail
> priorities. Then there's the Piccadilly resignalling, splitting the
> Northern line, re-starting the Night Tube, the Bakerloo extension, XR2…

XR2?

On Tue, 25 May 2021 20:34:22 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
<hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
>What is 4LM?
>
"Four Lines Modernisation" upograding the sub-surface lines signalling
etc.
https://tfl.gov.uk/travel-information/improvements-and-projects/four-lines-modernisation
https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/united-kingdom/news/inside-4lm-challenges-delivering-worlds-largest-signalling-upgrade
<snip>

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 25/05/2021 20:26, Recliner wrote:
>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 25/05/2021 15:25, Recliner wrote:
>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 25/05/2021 00:25, Charles Ellson wrote:
>>>>>> On Mon, 24 May 2021 23:59:57 +0100, "hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk"
>>>>>> <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 24/05/2021 20:37, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 22/05/2021 10:27, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In message <s88i6c$r24$2@dont-email.me>, at 15:04:44 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> In message <s87pfl$2ll$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:03:01 on Fri, 21 May
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2021, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they were also attempting to rationalise down to a single
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> operator per London terminus, which they achieved at Liverpool St, but
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was structurally impossible at Kings Cross.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They never quite managed it at Paddington either, Crossrail appearing
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> before HEx became gWr.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Then there's Heathrow Connect, which was in a category all of its own.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder if GBR will keep the branding of Stansted Express and Gatwick
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Express? (And Heathrow Express, which may be operating until at least
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2028).
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> HEx is a private open access operator, which will surely keep its branding
>>>>>>>>>>>>> as long as it survives.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Though with operation now sub-contracted to gWr (and crews TUPEd across);
>>>>>>>>>>>> so in future presumably effectively GBR operating an open access operator's
>>>>>>>>>>>> trains for them?!?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No, it'll be whoever the concession holder is for gWr operating the
>>>>>>>>>>> trains.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> But they'll be under contract to GBR, yes? And operating an OAO's trains.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Whether GBR takes over as the "controlling mind" for HEx is a
>>>>>>>>>>> question similar to the one I've posted earlier about some of the
>>>>>>>>>>> currently PTE-controlled services.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> What do you mean by 'controlling mind'? Do you mean GBR buying HEx off HAL?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> What's going to happen with the London Underground? Will it remain under
>>>>>>>>> TfL management or will that also go? What about the RER-types, such as
>>>>>>>>> Thameslink and Crossrail?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There won't be any change with LU,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was not thinking of LU, Glasgow Subway or any of the light rail lines
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> TL or Crossrail. I also expect no change
>>>>>>>> with LO,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's what interested me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> apart from perhaps some modest growth if more suburban lines are
>>>>>>>> transferred to it (such as the GN Moorgate line).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Perhaps this will expedite the TfL taking over the Northern City Line?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not much point, it went to BR because it was isolated from the rest of
>>>>>> LU because of Northern Line extensions that were never built.
>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>> I don't mean that TfL would take over the Northern City Line as part of
>>>>> the Underground line, but rather as a suburban line.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, and its transfer to LO is quite likely.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thus, I thought that the revamp might make expedite this happening.
>>>
>>> I believe that TfL is also licking its lips for TL?
>>>
>>
>> No, there is absolutely no evidence that the mayor or TfL has ever
>> expressed any such an interest. It's a rumour Roland started here just
>> recently, but it's completely untrue.
>
> I apologise for perpetuating that rumour, particularly if it came from
> others.
>
>
>> In any case, taking over a few
>> suburban more routes is very low on TfL's priority list right now.
>>
> Fair enough.
>
>> For TfL, surviving intact with sustainable financing, successfully opening
>> Crossrail and the Northern Line extension, re-starting the Drain,
>> completing the Bank and 4LM projects,
>
> What is 4LM?

The SSL resignalling project.

<https://www.london.gov.uk/questions/2021/0502>

<https://tfl.gov.uk/travel-information/improvements-and-projects/four-lines-modernisation>

>
>
>> introducing the 2024TS and extending
>> the order for the Central, W&C and Bakerloo lines are all much higher rail
>> priorities. Then there's the Piccadilly resignalling, splitting the
>> Northern line, re-starting the Night Tube, the Bakerloo extension, XR2…
>
> XR2?

Crossrail 2, with all work now on hold.

In message <s8jj0g$krf$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:26:08 on Tue, 25 May
2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

>>>> I don't mean that TfL would take over the Northern City Line as part of
>>>> the Underground line, but rather as a suburban line.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, and its transfer to LO is quite likely.
>>>
>>
>> Thus, I thought that the revamp might make expedite this happening.
>>
>> I believe that TfL is also licking its lips for TL?
>
>No, there is absolutely no evidence that the mayor or TfL has ever
>expressed any such an interest. It's a rumour Roland started here just
>recently, but it's completely untrue.

It's in the category of "recliner doesn't recall the issue being mooted
in the past, so has decided it never existed".

>In any case, taking over a few
>suburban more routes is very low on TfL's priority list right now.

That's disjoint from whether or not such a thing was on the table *some
time ago*, or might be pursued *years in the future*.

>For TfL, surviving intact with sustainable financing, successfully opening
>Crossrail and the Northern Line extension, re-starting the Drain,
>completing the Bank and 4LM projects, introducing the 2024TS and extending
>the order for the Central, W&C and Bakerloo lines are all much higher rail
>priorities. Then there's the Piccadilly resignalling, splitting the
>Northern line, re-starting the Night Tube, the Bakerloo extension, XR2…
>

--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <s8jj0g$krf$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:26:08 on Tue, 25 May
> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>>>> I don't mean that TfL would take over the Northern City Line as part of
>>>>> the Underground line, but rather as a suburban line.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, and its transfer to LO is quite likely.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thus, I thought that the revamp might make expedite this happening.
>>>
>>> I believe that TfL is also licking its lips for TL?
>>
>> No, there is absolutely no evidence that the mayor or TfL has ever
>> expressed any such an interest. It's a rumour Roland started here just
>> recently, but it's completely untrue.
>
> It's in the category of "recliner doesn't recall the issue being mooted
> in the past, so has decided it never existed".

No, it comes in the category of, "Roland made it up".

>
>> In any case, taking over a few
>> suburban more routes is very low on TfL's priority list right now.
>
> That's disjoint from whether or not such a thing was on the table *some
> time ago*, or might be pursued *years in the future*.

Yes, we're talking about the priorities in the here and now.

In message <s8l1m6$klc$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:42:46 on Wed, 26 May
2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <s8jj0g$krf$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:26:08 on Tue, 25 May
>> 2021, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>>>>> I don't mean that TfL would take over the Northern City Line as part of
>>>>>> the Underground line, but rather as a suburban line.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, and its transfer to LO is quite likely.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thus, I thought that the revamp might make expedite this happening.
>>>>
>>>> I believe that TfL is also licking its lips for TL?
>>>
>>> No, there is absolutely no evidence that the mayor or TfL has ever
>>> expressed any such an interest. It's a rumour Roland started here just
>>> recently, but it's completely untrue.
>>
>> It's in the category of "recliner doesn't recall the issue being mooted
>> in the past, so has decided it never existed".
>
>No, it comes in the category of, "Roland made it up".

I have no desire to make things up, we'd be here all day if I was prone
to that.

>>> In any case, taking over a few
>>> suburban more routes is very low on TfL's priority list right now.
>>
>> That's disjoint from whether or not such a thing was on the table *some
>> time ago*, or might be pursued *years in the future*.
>
>Yes, we're talking about the priorities in the here and now.

Hence the disjointed-ness. But that doesn't mean it wasn't on the table
at some point in the past (even if you didn't notice).
--
Roland Perry