Need a new consumer unit for approx three ring mains and two lighting
circuits (kitchen/extension and cooker already on a fairly new one, no
immersion heater).

One-man-band professional electrician coming round to quote at the
weekend. What should I reasonably be expecting?
--
Roland Perry

On 08/03/2022 18:03, Roland Perry wrote:
> Need a new consumer unit for approx three ring mains and two lighting
> circuits (kitchen/extension and cooker already on a fairly new one, no
> immersion heater).
>
> One-man-band professional electrician coming round to quote at the
> weekend. What should I reasonably be expecting?
To be shafted.

--
Gun Control: The law that ensures that only criminals have guns.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> Need a new consumer unit for approx three ring mains and two lighting
> circuits (kitchen/extension and cooker already on a fairly new one, no
> immersion heater).
>
> One-man-band professional electrician coming round to quote at the
> weekend. What should I reasonably be expecting?

Got my 7 way replaced with a 14 way Hager CU with 8 RCBOs and SPD (a quality
unit hence by no means the cheapest, parts cost £200-300), quotes were about
£650-800. Due to scheduling constraints I went with the £800.

It's roughly a half a day job so work out your hourly rate. Parts costs
upwards of £100 depending on what you want (RCDs, RCBOs, SPD, AFDDs*, etc
etc).

Theo

* you almost certainly don't want AFDDs

On 08/03/2022 18:03, Roland Perry wrote:
> Need a new consumer unit for approx three ring mains and two lighting
> circuits (kitchen/extension and cooker already on a fairly new one, no
> immersion heater).
>
> One-man-band professional electrician coming round to quote at the
> weekend. What should I reasonably be expecting?

It should be what you are asking.

IMHO get a price for all RCBO for a five circuit CU.

Are the two CU's getting combined or are you just swapping the older one?

On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 18:03:19 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:

> Need a new consumer unit for approx three ring mains and two lighting
> circuits (kitchen/extension and cooker already on a fairly new one, no
> immersion heater).
>
> One-man-band professional electrician coming round to quote at the
> weekend. What should I reasonably be expecting?

Metal clad consumer unit, 5x RCBO , and probably an upfront, or, consumer
unit integrated SPD, full test on completion, Install Certificate and
Part P notification should be included.
I would have SPD fitment if it was my house.
£600 would be about right. £500 is possible if a cheaper type of no-name
consumer unit is used, or standard circuit breakers with 2 x RCDs used.
e.g. Fusebox' RCBOs are £12, Wylex are £32.

In message <t08au1$5pj$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:31:12 on Tue, 8 Mar 2022,
ARW <adamwadsworth@blueyonder.co.uk> remarked:

>On 08/03/2022 18:03, Roland Perry wrote:

>> Need a new consumer unit for approx three ring mains and two lighting
>>circuits (kitchen/extension and cooker already on a fairly new one, no
>>immersion heater).

>> One-man-band professional electrician coming round to quote at the
>>weekend. What should I reasonably be expecting?
>
>It should be what you are asking.

?

>IMHO get a price for all RCBO for a five circuit CU.

I'm asking here what would one expect to pay for something like that,
fitted.

Half a day sounds about right, which round here is cheaper than in a big
city.

>Are the two CU's getting combined or are you just swapping the older one?

It's actually two older ones: one probably pre-war, the other maybe
50's.
--
Roland Perry

In message <FpOdncUHA7r-Mrr_nZ2dnUU7-eednZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
13:32:51 on Tue, 8 Mar 2022, Alan <alan@darkroom.+.com> remarked:
>On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 18:03:19 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
>
>> Need a new consumer unit for approx three ring mains and two lighting
>> circuits (kitchen/extension and cooker already on a fairly new one, no
>> immersion heater).
>>
>> One-man-band professional electrician coming round to quote at the
>> weekend. What should I reasonably be expecting?
>
>Metal clad consumer unit, 5x RCBO , and probably an upfront, or, consumer
>unit integrated SPD, full test on completion, Install Certificate and
>Part P notification should be included.

Yes, paperwork needs to be in order.

>I would have SPD fitment if it was my house.
>£600 would be about right. £500 is possible if a cheaper type of no-name
>consumer unit is used, or standard circuit breakers with 2 x RCDs used.
>e.g. Fusebox' RCBOs are £12, Wylex are £32.

The Kitchen/extension consumer unit I'm thinking of keeping is similar
to:

<https://www.tradesparky.com/circuit-protection/distribution-equipment/c
onsumer-units/wylex-nhrs20463-consumer-unit-2way-63a>

with two NSB32's fitted in addition to the RCD.

But if it saves money (by making it easier to fit) there's room for a
wider version of that, to replace all three.
--
Roland Perry

On 08/03/2022 18:03, Roland Perry wrote:
> Need a new consumer unit for approx three ring mains and two lighting
> circuits (kitchen/extension and cooker already on a fairly new one, no
> immersion heater).
>
> One-man-band professional electrician coming round to quote at the
> weekend. What should I reasonably be expecting?

Sounds about what we had in July last year for a house in Penzance.
Supply and fit £300, and with all the necessary paperwork.

A one-man band too, who did a very neat job. The house was empty at the
time so I posted him the keys which may have helped him with fitting it in.

--
Cheers
Clive

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> posted
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> Need a new consumer unit for approx three ring mains and two lighting
>> circuits (kitchen/extension and cooker already on a fairly new one, no
>> immersion heater).
>>
>> One-man-band professional electrician coming round to quote at the
>> weekend. What should I reasonably be expecting?
>
>Got my 7 way replaced with a 14 way Hager CU with 8 RCBOs and SPD (a quality
>unit hence by no means the cheapest, parts cost £200-300), quotes were about
>£650-800. Due to scheduling constraints I went with the £800.
>
>It's roughly a half a day job so work out your hourly rate. Parts costs
>upwards of £100 depending on what you want (RCDs, RCBOs, SPD, AFDDs*, etc
>etc).

Yes, £600-800 were the quotes when I had ours done a couple of years
ago, for slightly larger house.

--
Algernon

On 08/03/2022 18:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> On 08/03/2022 18:03, Roland Perry wrote:
>> Need a new consumer unit for approx three ring mains and two lighting
>> circuits (kitchen/extension and cooker already on a fairly new one, no
>> immersion heater).
>>
>> One-man-band professional electrician coming round to quote at the
>> weekend. What should I reasonably be expecting?
> To be shafted.
>
>
Not all one-man bands are crooks. Fewer than if you use a big firm, I'd
say.

Bill

On 08/03/2022 19:54, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <t08au1$5pj$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:31:12 on Tue, 8 Mar 2022,
> ARW <adamwadsworth@blueyonder.co.uk> remarked:
>
>> On 08/03/2022 18:03, Roland Perry wrote:
>
>>> Need a new consumer unit for approx three ring mains and two lighting
>>> circuits (kitchen/extension and cooker already on a fairly new one,
>>> no immersion heater).
>
>>>  One-man-band professional electrician coming round to quote at the
>>> weekend. What should I reasonably be expecting?
>>
>> It should be what you are asking.
>
> ?
>
>> IMHO get a price for all RCBO for a five circuit CU.
>
> I'm asking here what would one expect to pay for something like that,
> fitted.
>
> Half a day sounds about right, which round here is cheaper than in a big
> city.
>
>> Are the two CU's getting combined or are you just swapping the older one?
>
> It's actually two older ones: one probably pre-war, the other maybe 50's.

so only fuses in existing, no RCD/ELCB etc. If so be prepared for
problems...

Dave

On 08/03/2022 18:03, Roland Perry wrote:
> Need a new consumer unit for approx three ring mains and two lighting
> circuits (kitchen/extension and cooker already on a fairly new one, no
> immersion heater).
>
> One-man-band professional electrician coming round to quote at the
> weekend. What should I reasonably be expecting?

Do you know if the circuits are in good order (eg from EICR before
purchase)?

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 08/03/2022 23:06, Robin wrote:
> On 08/03/2022 18:03, Roland Perry wrote:
>> Need a new consumer unit for approx three ring mains and two lighting
>> circuits (kitchen/extension and cooker already on a fairly new one, no
>> immersion heater).
>>
>> One-man-band professional electrician coming round to quote at the
>> weekend. What should I reasonably be expecting?
>
> Do you know if the circuits are in good order (eg from EICR before
> purchase)?

Yup, the subtext here is expect to uncover a few additional bits that
might need fixing...

Equipotential bonding might not be up to scratch. Circuits might not
text successfully (ring continuity etc), requiring extra investigation.
There might be shared neutrals between circuits (will cause RCD trip),
or circuits might fail insulation resistance checks.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

In message <t08mln$35r$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:51:35 on Tue, 8 Mar 2022,
David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> remarked:
>On 08/03/2022 19:54, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <t08au1$5pj$1@dont-email.me>, at 19:31:12 on Tue, 8 Mar
>>2022, ARW <adamwadsworth@blueyonder.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>> On 08/03/2022 18:03, Roland Perry wrote:
>>
>>>> Need a new consumer unit for approx three ring mains and two
>>>>lighting circuits (kitchen/extension and cooker already on a fairly
>>>>new one, no immersion heater).
>>
>>>>  One-man-band professional electrician coming round to quote at the
>>>>weekend. What should I reasonably be expecting?
>>>
>>> It should be what you are asking.
>> ?
>>
>>> IMHO get a price for all RCBO for a five circuit CU.

>> I'm asking here what would one expect to pay for something like
>>that, fitted.

>> Half a day sounds about right, which round here is cheaper than in a
>>big city.
>>
>>> Are the two CU's getting combined or are you just swapping the older
>>>one?

>> It's actually two older ones: one probably pre-war, the other maybe
>>50's.
>
>so only fuses in existing, no RCD/ELCB etc. If so be prepared for
>problems...

Apart from anything else, it's upgrading to a more modern configuration
I'm trying to achieve.

Or do you think it's possible the existing wiring might have undetected
'leaks'?
--
Roland Perry

In message <t08tbn$hcc$1@dont-email.me>, at 00:45:44 on Wed, 9 Mar 2022,
John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> remarked:

>On 08/03/2022 23:06, Robin wrote:
>> On 08/03/2022 18:03, Roland Perry wrote:

>>> Need a new consumer unit for approx three ring mains and two
>>>lighting circuits (kitchen/extension and cooker already on a fairly
>>>new one, no immersion heater).
>>>
>>> One-man-band professional electrician coming round to quote at the
>>>weekend. What should I reasonably be expecting?

>> Do you know if the circuits are in good order (eg from EICR before
>>purchase)?
>
>Yup, the subtext here is expect to uncover a few additional bits that
>might need fixing...
>
>Equipotential bonding might not be up to scratch. Circuits might not
>text successfully (ring continuity etc), requiring extra investigation.
>There might be shared neutrals between circuits (will cause RCD trip),
>or circuits might fail insulation resistance checks.

We'll have to take that as it comes. However a Smart Meter was fitted in
2017 by previous owners, so maybe it was checked out then (I will look
for paperwork at time of house purchase, later).
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry wrote:
> It's actually two older ones: one probably pre-war, the other maybe 50's.
Is your electrician a young chap?

If so, expect sucking of teeth followed by "this installation is older than my
greatgrandparents, it'll all need replacing" ...

On 09/03/2022 00:45, John Rumm wrote:
> On 08/03/2022 23:06, Robin wrote:
>> On 08/03/2022 18:03, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> Need a new consumer unit for approx three ring mains and two lighting
>>> circuits (kitchen/extension and cooker already on a fairly new one,
>>> no immersion heater).
>>>
>>> One-man-band professional electrician coming round to quote at the
>>> weekend. What should I reasonably be expecting?
>>
>> Do you know if the circuits are in good order (eg from EICR before
>> purchase)?
>
> Yup, the subtext here is expect to uncover a few additional bits that
> might need fixing...
>
> Equipotential bonding might not be up to scratch. Circuits might not
> text successfully (ring continuity etc), requiring extra investigation.
> There might be shared neutrals between circuits (will cause RCD trip),
> or circuits might fail insulation resistance checks.
>
>
Precisely. There's a lot to be said for letting sleeping dogs lie as far
as existing circuits are concerned, and installing a new CU to current
regs for any additional circuits.
--
Cheers,
Roger

Roland Perry wrote on 09/03/2022 :
> However a Smart Meter was fitted in 2017 by previous owners, so maybe it was
> checked out then (I will look for paperwork at time of house purchase,
> later).

Not relevant - they don't do any tests.

In message <j8r910Fia3oU1@mid.individual.net>, at 09:06:36 on Wed, 9 Mar
2022, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> remarked:

>Roland Perry wrote:

>> It's actually two older ones: one probably pre-war, the other maybe 50's.

>Is your electrician a young chap?
>
>If so, expect sucking of teeth followed by "this installation is older
>than my greatgrandparents, it'll all need replacing" ...

Neither the installation for the new kitchen/extension, nor the smart
meter, qualify for that.

Yes, the installation comprising the two old fuseboxes does, which is
why I want them replacing, Dear Liza.

Part of me wants him to upgrade the tails (quite short) between the main
fuse, the Smart Meter and the consumer unit backboard, with better than
the 60A ones currently in place, so I can get the main fuse upgraded.

But on balance, I think it might just confuse the situation.

I get this a lot when talking to eg professionals in HR, IT, the law,
that if you ask two, three, four or five questions at the same time,
they only answer the easiest, and ignore the rest.

I'm about to send off a request to an IT department regarding three
separate (but interlinked) tasks, and which would be *vastly* more
efficient for them to do all three at the same time. But I have this
sense of foreboding they'll just pick the easiest and ignore the other
two.

So maybe they'll get a series of them, instead.

[Recursively, I asked the guy doing the electrics for the new extension
to quote separately for doing this latest project, and despite several
reminders - and not even needing to do a special site survey as he was
already here - just ignored it. I suppose someone will now claim that's
evidence it's "too difficult" work, rather than "I'm already fully
booked till the end of the year"; which isn't true because I know for a
fact these guys moonlight at weekends].
--
Roland Perry

On 09/03/2022 06:38, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <t08tbn$hcc$1@dont-email.me>, at 00:45:44 on Wed, 9 Mar 2022,
> John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> remarked:
>
>> On 08/03/2022 23:06, Robin wrote:
>>> On 08/03/2022 18:03, Roland Perry wrote:
>
>>>> Need a new consumer unit for approx three ring mains and two
>>>> lighting  circuits (kitchen/extension and cooker already on a fairly
>>>> new one, no  immersion heater).
>>>>
>>>> One-man-band professional electrician coming round to quote at the
>>>> weekend. What should I reasonably be expecting?
>
>>>  Do you know if the circuits are in good order (eg from EICR before
>>> purchase)?
>>
>> Yup, the subtext here is expect to uncover a few additional bits that
>> might need fixing...
>>
>> Equipotential bonding might not be up to scratch. Circuits might not
>> text successfully (ring continuity etc), requiring extra
>> investigation. There might be shared neutrals between circuits (will
>> cause RCD trip), or circuits might fail insulation resistance checks.
>
> We'll have to take that as it comes.

Well yes, but investigation takes time. Most electricians don't want "if
then maybe" jobs they want predictable work so they can schedule the
next. I think most will want to re-wire. If you have shared neutrals,
for example between upstairs and downstairs lights how on earth can any
one find that? It could be in any junction box. In my case it was linked
smoke detectors that caused issues. Upstairs on on upstairs lights,
downstairs one on downstairs lights. Linked by wire it was enough to
trip the RCD/ELCB. Took me ages to find, and then get Sparks back to
finish job.

Later when the kitchen was re-fitted we had issues with broken rings.
Again a pig to find, you probably need to remove every socket.

> However a Smart Meter was fitted in
> 2017 by previous owners, so maybe it was checked out then (I will look
> for paperwork at time of house purchase, later).

No checks will have been done for Smart Meter. They just swap the meter.
So you didn't get an EICR when you bought?

Dave

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> Apart from anything else, it's upgrading to a more modern configuration
> I'm trying to achieve.
>
> Or do you think it's possible the existing wiring might have undetected
> 'leaks'?

Several issues. One is lack of RCDs could find undetected cross-wiring - eg
lighting circuit borrowing neutral from nearby sockets. Or just straight
leaky appliances - an old boiler, immersion or something.

The other is the general condition of the installation: if the CUs are that
old, how old is the wiring? Do you know it's sound - not rubber, not
cotton, no 'green goo' (failed PVC insulation)? Earthing in place where
it's needed?

For something of that age you might be advised to commission an EICR
(£100-200) and get the system tested. Testing is part of the CU change
anyway, so it's work that needs to be done (although an electrician should
retest once the CU is replaced).

Having done an EICR it's essentially a todo list of work that needs to be
done, and you can then show it to people when you're asked for quotes. It
puts them on more solid ground than quoting for a CU change, taking it apart
and discovering wiring issues that make the job much bigger. It may result
in lower quotes if it means they need allow for less contingency since the
job has lower risks. It may also allow you to fix more things on the EICR
while the electrician is on site.

Theo

In message <t09sor$kvg$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:41:47 on Wed, 9 Mar 2022,
David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> remarked:

>> However a Smart Meter was fitted in 2017 by previous owners, so
>>maybe it was checked out then (I will look for paperwork at time of
>>house purchase, later).
>
>No checks will have been done for Smart Meter. They just swap the
>meter. So you didn't get an EICR when you bought?

Like I said, I'll look that up later.
--
Roland Perry

On 09/03/2022 09:28, Roger Mills wrote:
> On 09/03/2022 00:45, John Rumm wrote:
>> On 08/03/2022 23:06, Robin wrote:
>>> On 08/03/2022 18:03, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> Need a new consumer unit for approx three ring mains and two
>>>> lighting circuits (kitchen/extension and cooker already on a fairly
>>>> new one, no immersion heater).
>>>>
>>>> One-man-band professional electrician coming round to quote at the
>>>> weekend. What should I reasonably be expecting?
>>>
>>> Do you know if the circuits are in good order (eg from EICR before
>>> purchase)?
>>
>> Yup, the subtext here is expect to uncover a few additional bits that
>> might need fixing...
>>
>> Equipotential bonding might not be up to scratch. Circuits might not
>> text successfully (ring continuity etc), requiring extra
>> investigation. There might be shared neutrals between circuits (will
>> cause RCD trip), or circuits might fail insulation resistance checks.
>>
>>
> Precisely. There's a lot to be said for letting sleeping dogs lie as far
> as existing circuits are concerned, and installing a new CU to current
> regs for any additional circuits.

There is some argument for switching existing stuff to a new CU if it
means you get RCD protection on socket circuits that currently have
none, or if you have re-wireable fuses and the place is likely to be
occupied by people not able to re-wire a fuse etc.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

Roland Perry wrote:

> Andy Burns remarked:
>
>> "it'll all need replacing" ...
>
> Neither the installation for the new kitchen/extension, nor the smart meter,
> qualify for that.
>
> Yes, the installation comprising the two old fuseboxes does, which is why I want
> them replacing, Dear Liza.

Confine him to that then

> Part of me wants him to upgrade the tails (quite short) between the main fuse,
> the Smart Meter and the consumer unit backboard

Most of which isn't yours to upgrade, no isolator after the meter?

> I'm about to send off a request to an IT department regarding three separate
> (but interlinked) tasks, and which would be *vastly* more efficient for them to
> do all three at the same time. But I have this sense of foreboding they'll just
> pick the easiest and ignore the other two.

I understand their attitude, the more things you do at once, the chances of
finding some undocumented interaction between them rapidly increases, and the
one person who knew about the baler-twine holding it together left years ago,
you get more departments involved, they all want you to sneak their own pet
change in at the same time ...

Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
> Precisely. There's a lot to be said for letting sleeping dogs lie as far
> as existing circuits are concerned, and installing a new CU to current
> regs for any additional circuits.

It seems like that's already been done: the geriatric CU remains, a
secondary CU has been added for the extension. At some point the
installation is unsafe and somebody has to bite the bullet and be prepared
to rectify anything that may be lurking. While a 'sleeping dogs' approach
might be fine if the installation is actually OK, just not up to current
regs, from the description I'm not convinced this installation is OK.

Theo