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aus+uk / uk.rec.audio / Re: 5v chargers and power supply woes

SubjectAuthor
* 5v chargers and power supply woesBrian Gaff \(Sofa\)
`* Re: 5v chargers and power supply woesJim Lesurf
 `* Re: 5v chargers and power supply woesBrian Gaff \(Sofa\)
  +- Re: 5v chargers and power supply woesDon Pearce
  `* Re: 5v chargers and power supply woesJim Lesurf
   `* Re: 5v chargers and power supply woesBrian Gaff \(Sofa\)
    `- Re: 5v chargers and power supply woesJim Lesurf

1
5v chargers and power supply woes

<s75j5k$9s4$1@dont-email.me>

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From: bria...@blueyonder.co.uk (Brian Gaff \(Sofa\))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.audio
Subject: 5v chargers and power supply woes
Date: Sat, 8 May 2021 09:46:41 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) - Sat, 8 May 2021 08:46 UTC

Is there any filter box or something like that that can make these devices
kick out less hash all over the radio spectrum. About the only reasonably
clean ones I have found are Apple, the ones with the folding pins, and
Amazon as supplied with their Echo devices. Most of the others, no matter
the cost just send out a rasping hash all over the place, one assumes
through the mains and from the power lead plugged into them. What you need
is an earthed metal box with a 13a socket and a USB on the outside or via a
fly lead, which contains a suitable mains and output filter to stop this.
This is the problem with switch mode designs, Often they oscillate with a
very dirty waveform straight onto the mains so a tiny transformer can be
used, Many saturate the ferrite core making matters far worse. The problem
is one cannot tell till you ge it home what its like.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!

Re: 5v chargers and power supply woes

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From: noi...@audiomisc.co.uk (Jim Lesurf)
Subject: Re: 5v chargers and power supply woes
Newsgroups: uk.rec.audio
Date: Sat, 08 May 2021 14:55:49 +0100
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 by: Jim Lesurf - Sat, 8 May 2021 13:55 UTC

I've tended more recently to add my own DIY filters. Combination of ferrite
'tubes'/clipon-blocks and old fashioned LC RFI filters. Mostly from CPC.

Finding decent mains distribution boards with actual RFI filters seems
harder these days than in past decades. Most which seem to be this actually
just use VDRs to clip spikes, no actual filters. I guess VDRs are cheaper
and avoid putting any 50 Hz onto the Earth which might risk tripping the
board in a modern house.

Try the clipon blocks, as they are the easiest to use. But they may not be
enough, alas.

Jim

In article <s75j5k$9s4$1@dont-email.me>, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)
<briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> Is there any filter box or something like that that can make these
> devices kick out less hash all over the radio spectrum. About the only
> reasonably clean ones I have found are Apple, the ones with the folding
> pins, and Amazon as supplied with their Echo devices. Most of the
> others, no matter the cost just send out a rasping hash all over the
> place, one assumes through the mains and from the power lead plugged
> into them. What you need is an earthed metal box with a 13a socket and a
> USB on the outside or via a fly lead, which contains a suitable mains
> and output filter to stop this. This is the problem with switch mode
> designs, Often they oscillate with a very dirty waveform straight onto
> the mains so a tiny transformer can be used, Many saturate the ferrite
> core making matters far worse. The problem is one cannot tell till you
> ge it home what its like. Brian

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Re: 5v chargers and power supply woes

<s7bl08$gsl$1@dont-email.me>

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From: bria...@blueyonder.co.uk (Brian Gaff \(Sofa\))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.audio
Subject: Re: 5v chargers and power supply woes
Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 16:54:47 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) - Mon, 10 May 2021 15:54 UTC

No the ferrites are no good as its going into the mains. At the moment one
high power quiet one bought from Apple is supplying three devices fine via
an empowered el capo USB 1 to four adaptor. Seems a little overkill.
I have been told that the problems lie in they get their rating with all
the suppression parts inside the device, them omit them all on production
in China. Is this true or an urban myth?
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Jim Lesurf" <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:59296cf1bfnoise@audiomisc.co.uk...
> I've tended more recently to add my own DIY filters. Combination of
> ferrite
> 'tubes'/clipon-blocks and old fashioned LC RFI filters. Mostly from CPC.
>
> Finding decent mains distribution boards with actual RFI filters seems
> harder these days than in past decades. Most which seem to be this
> actually
> just use VDRs to clip spikes, no actual filters. I guess VDRs are cheaper
> and avoid putting any 50 Hz onto the Earth which might risk tripping the
> board in a modern house.
>
> Try the clipon blocks, as they are the easiest to use. But they may not be
> enough, alas.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> In article <s75j5k$9s4$1@dont-email.me>, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)
> <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> Is there any filter box or something like that that can make these
>> devices kick out less hash all over the radio spectrum. About the only
>> reasonably clean ones I have found are Apple, the ones with the folding
>> pins, and Amazon as supplied with their Echo devices. Most of the
>> others, no matter the cost just send out a rasping hash all over the
>> place, one assumes through the mains and from the power lead plugged
>> into them. What you need is an earthed metal box with a 13a socket and a
>> USB on the outside or via a fly lead, which contains a suitable mains
>> and output filter to stop this. This is the problem with switch mode
>> designs, Often they oscillate with a very dirty waveform straight onto
>> the mains so a tiny transformer can be used, Many saturate the ferrite
>> core making matters far worse. The problem is one cannot tell till you
>> ge it home what its like. Brian
>
> --
> Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
> Electronics
> https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
> biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
> Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
>

Re: 5v chargers and power supply woes

<60996e72.107860593@news.eternal-september.org>

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From: spa...@spam.com (Don Pearce)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.audio
Subject: Re: 5v chargers and power supply woes
Date: Mon, 10 May 2021 17:34:01 GMT
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 by: Don Pearce - Mon, 10 May 2021 17:34 UTC

On Mon, 10 May 2021 16:54:47 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
<briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>No the ferrites are no good as its going into the mains. At the moment one
>high power quiet one bought from Apple is supplying three devices fine via
>an empowered el capo USB 1 to four adaptor. Seems a little overkill.
> I have been told that the problems lie in they get their rating with all
>the suppression parts inside the device, them omit them all on production
>in China. Is this true or an urban myth?
> Brian

Absolutely true. I've experienced that first hand.

d

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Re: 5v chargers and power supply woes

<592adc52ecnoise@audiomisc.co.uk>

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From: noi...@audiomisc.co.uk (Jim Lesurf)
Subject: Re: 5v chargers and power supply woes
Newsgroups: uk.rec.audio
Date: Tue, 11 May 2021 09:48:35 +0100
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 by: Jim Lesurf - Tue, 11 May 2021 08:48 UTC

You'd have to be more specific wrt your "ferrites are no good" assertion as
their effect depend on the nature of the RFI, how you have fitted the
ferrites, etc.

You can clamp a block around a mains cable and that will tend to attenuate
common-mode RFI. To deal with differential modes you'd need to fit them to
the individial wires or may use an RFI opposing pair with a ferrite ring.
For examples.

Jim

In article <s7bl08$gsl$1@dont-email.me>, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)
<briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> No the ferrites are no good as its going into the mains. At the moment
> one high power quiet one bought from Apple is supplying three devices
> fine via an empowered el capo USB 1 to four adaptor. Seems a little
> overkill. I have been told that the problems lie in they get their
> rating with all the suppression parts inside the device, them omit them
> all on production in China. Is this true or an urban myth? Brian

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Re: 5v chargers and power supply woes

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From: bria...@blueyonder.co.uk (Brian Gaff \(Sofa\))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.audio
Subject: Re: 5v chargers and power supply woes
Date: Sat, 15 May 2021 09:29:20 +0100
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 by: Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) - Sat, 15 May 2021 08:29 UTC

I've tried the ones where you coil the output leads around then clamp the
two halves together. The main source of grot I feel is straight down the
mains plug which is integral.
I even have some low voltage gear, one is a line amp and another is a
compressor that seemingly have an internal swith mode psu that generates
several supply voltages from the 5v from the charger, often putting
wandering birdies all over the place.
Then there is the Samsung hdmi connection to a hdmi to via conversion
device that emits polling pulses every few seconds and you can hear these
all the way up to about 30Mhz as wide band splurting noises.

Bah humbug
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Jim Lesurf" <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:592adc52ecnoise@audiomisc.co.uk...
> You'd have to be more specific wrt your "ferrites are no good" assertion
> as
> their effect depend on the nature of the RFI, how you have fitted the
> ferrites, etc.
>
> You can clamp a block around a mains cable and that will tend to attenuate
> common-mode RFI. To deal with differential modes you'd need to fit them to
> the individial wires or may use an RFI opposing pair with a ferrite ring.
> For examples.
>
> Jim
>
>
> In article <s7bl08$gsl$1@dont-email.me>, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)
> <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> No the ferrites are no good as its going into the mains. At the moment
>> one high power quiet one bought from Apple is supplying three devices
>> fine via an empowered el capo USB 1 to four adaptor. Seems a little
>> overkill. I have been told that the problems lie in they get their
>> rating with all the suppression parts inside the device, them omit them
>> all on production in China. Is this true or an urban myth? Brian
>
> --
> Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
> Electronics
> https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
> biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
> Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
>

Re: 5v chargers and power supply woes

<592d6c5d28noise@audiomisc.co.uk>

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From: noi...@audiomisc.co.uk (Jim Lesurf)
Subject: Re: 5v chargers and power supply woes
Newsgroups: uk.rec.audio
Date: Sun, 16 May 2021 09:14:18 +0100
Message-ID: <592d6c5d28noise@audiomisc.co.uk>
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 by: Jim Lesurf - Sun, 16 May 2021 08:14 UTC

Your first situation might be fixed by buying a short mains extension cable
and putting the filer on that.

Simlar for other cases. But if an HDMI cable is transferring/radiating a
ferrite clamp at its sending end may help. Or a pair, one at each end.

Many HDMI cables are also crap. So a different cable may help.

Jim

In article <s7o0p5$bf6$1@dont-email.me>, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)
<briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> I've tried the ones where you coil the output leads around then clamp
> the two halves together. The main source of grot I feel is straight down
> the mains plug which is integral. I even have some low voltage gear, one
> is a line amp and another is a compressor that seemingly have an
> internal swith mode psu that generates several supply voltages from the
> 5v from the charger, often putting wandering birdies all over the place.
> Then there is the Samsung hdmi connection to a hdmi to via conversion
> device that emits polling pulses every few seconds and you can hear
> these all the way up to about 30Mhz as wide band splurting noises.

> Bah humbug Brian

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

1
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