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aus+uk / aus.aviation / Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu

SubjectAuthor
* B737 ditches off HonoluluPhil Allison
+* Re: B737 ditches off HonoluluDaryl
|`* Re: B737 ditches off HonoluluPhil Allison
| `- Re: B737 ditches off HonoluluDaryl
`* Re: B737 ditches off HonoluluSylvia Else
 +* Re: B737 ditches off HonoluluPhil Allison
 |`* Re: B737 ditches off HonoluluDaryl
 | +* Re: B737 ditches off HonoluluPhil Allison
 | |`- Re: B737 ditches off HonoluluPhil Allison
 | `* Re: B737 ditches off HonoluluDavid Lesher
 |  `* Re: B737 ditches off HonoluluDaryl
 |   +* Re: B737 ditches off HonoluluSylvia Else
 |   |+- Re: B737 ditches off HonoluluRod Speed
 |   |`- Re: B737 ditches off HonoluluDaryl
 |   `- Re: B737 ditches off HonoluluJames Morrison
 +* Re: B737 ditches off HonoluluDaryl
 |+* Re: B737 ditches off HonoluluSylvia Else
 ||`* Re: B737 ditches off HonoluluDaryl
 || `- Re: B737 ditches off HonoluluSylvia Else
 |`* Re: B737 ditches off HonoluluPhil Allison
 | `- Re: B737 ditches off HonoluluDaryl
 `* Re: B737 ditches off Honolulukeithr0
  +- Re: B737 ditches off HonoluluSylvia Else
  `* Re: B737 ditches off HonoluluDaryl
   `* Re: B737 ditches off Honolulukeithr0
    `- Re: B737 ditches off HonoluluDaryl

Pages:12
B737 ditches off Honolulu

<be1af080-8cd6-499d-baea-1ff4f2755569n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: B737 ditches off Honolulu
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Sat, 3 Jul 2021 05:21 UTC

Hi,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ll4_33CpxI

Both engines failed after take off.
Very old plane.
Pilots picked up by CG heli but reportedly not in good shape.

Water is about 1500 feet deep in that area.

...... Phil

Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu

<ikavusFd5fqU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2021 21:28:26 +1000
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 by: Daryl - Sat, 3 Jul 2021 11:28 UTC

On 3/7/21 3:21 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
> Hi,
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ll4_33CpxI
>
> Both engines failed after take off.
> Very old plane.
> Pilots picked up by CG heli but reportedly not in good shape.
>
> Water is about 1500 feet deep in that area.
>

Juan Browne also did a vid on the same incident.
Seems like the pilots were overly concerned with completing the "one
engine failed" checklist and weren't in a big hurry to return to the
airport so in the end they ran out of time to land.
They were following correct procedure as per their training not
anticipating the other engine failing and simply ran out of time.

--
Daryl

Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu

<170bdde4-489e-4969-a440-9a923a81314fn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Sat, 3 Jul 2021 12:00 UTC

Daryl wrote:
============
>
> Juan Browne also did a vid on the same incident.
> Seems like the pilots were overly concerned with completing the "one
> engine failed" checklist and weren't in a big hurry to return to the
> airport so in the end they ran out of time to land.
> They were following correct procedure as per their training not
> anticipating the other engine failing and simply ran out of time.
>

** But they ditched loaded, gliding a B737 in the *sea at night* and lived to tell the tale.

Never happened before.

...... Phil

Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2021 22:53:48 +1000
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 by: Daryl - Sat, 3 Jul 2021 12:53 UTC

On 3/7/21 10:00 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
> Daryl wrote:
> ============
>>
>> Juan Browne also did a vid on the same incident.
>> Seems like the pilots were overly concerned with completing the "one
>> engine failed" checklist and weren't in a big hurry to return to the
>> airport so in the end they ran out of time to land.
>> They were following correct procedure as per their training not
>> anticipating the other engine failing and simply ran out of time.
>>
>
> ** But they ditched loaded, gliding a B737 in the *sea at night* and lived to tell the tale.

The fact that survived says that they did something right.
If you listen to the ATC recording you hear them asking for the Coast
Guard, the CG was already alerted and on the way to the crash site
before they hit the water which is probably why they survived.

--
Daryl

Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu

<ikcg8oFm515U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: syl...@email.invalid (Sylvia Else)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 11:12:56 +1000
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 by: Sylvia Else - Sun, 4 Jul 2021 01:12 UTC

On 03-Jul-21 3:21 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
> Hi,
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ll4_33CpxI
>
> Both engines failed after take off.
> Very old plane.
> Pilots picked up by CG heli but reportedly not in good shape.
>
> Water is about 1500 feet deep in that area.
>
>
> ..... Phil
>
If this is a two engine failure due to independent causes, I believe it
would be the first for a transport category jet airliner.

Sylvia.

Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu

<4c90178d-6fe4-4572-b259-fed104c9587an@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Sun, 4 Jul 2021 01:58 UTC

Sylvia Else shifts the context as usual:
================================
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ll4_33CpxI
> >
> > Both engines failed after take off.
> > Very old plane.
> > Pilots picked up by CG heli but reportedly not in good shape.
> >
> > Water is about 1500 feet deep in that area.
> >
> >
> If this is a two engine failure due to independent causes, I believe it
> would be the first for a transport category jet airliner.
>

** Bad fuel is one suspect - but that would affect other aircraft using the same supply.
I suspect maintenance or ground crew error ie wrong or missing oil.

...... Phil

Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu
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 by: Daryl - Sun, 4 Jul 2021 02:04 UTC

On 4/7/21 11:12 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 03-Jul-21 3:21 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ll4_33CpxI
>>
>> Both engines failed after take off.
>> Very old plane.
>> Pilots picked up by CG heli but reportedly not in good shape.
>>
>> Water is about 1500 feet deep in that area.
>>
>>
>> .....   Phil
>>
> If this is a two engine failure due to independent causes, I believe it
> would be the first for a transport category jet airliner.
>

Certainly unusual, one engine failed not long after take off and the
second starting "running very hot" and losing power about 10mins later,
don't know if the second totally failed or it just wasn't producing
enough power to maintain altitude.
Its going to be a very expensive exercise if they decide to recover the
wreckage, without doing that they have little chance of finding out what
went wrong.

--
Daryl

Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu

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From: syl...@email.invalid (Sylvia Else)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 13:21:50 +1000
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 by: Sylvia Else - Sun, 4 Jul 2021 03:21 UTC

On 04-Jul-21 12:04 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 4/7/21 11:12 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 03-Jul-21 3:21 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ll4_33CpxI
>>>
>>> Both engines failed after take off.
>>> Very old plane.
>>> Pilots picked up by CG heli but reportedly not in good shape.
>>>
>>> Water is about 1500 feet deep in that area.
>>>
>>>
>>> .....   Phil
>>>
>> If this is a two engine failure due to independent causes, I believe
>> it would be the first for a transport category jet airliner.
>>
>
>
> Certainly unusual, one engine failed not long after take off and the
> second starting "running very hot" and losing power about 10mins later,
> don't know if the second totally failed or it just wasn't producing
> enough power to maintain altitude.
> Its going to be a very expensive exercise if they decide to recover the
> wreckage, without doing that they have little chance of finding out what
> went wrong.
>

I think they'll feel they have to recover the wreckage, unless some
ham-fisted mechanic comes forward and admits they made the same
maintenance mistake on both engines (wouldn't be the first time).

Sylvia.

Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu

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Subject: Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Sun, 4 Jul 2021 04:15 UTC

Daryl wrote:
==============
> Its going to be a very expensive exercise if they decide to recover the
> wreckage,

** Read my first post.

1500 feet is no big problem for engine & BB recovery.

...... Phil

Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 14:35:17 +1000
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 by: Daryl - Sun, 4 Jul 2021 04:35 UTC

On 4/7/21 2:15 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
> Daryl wrote:
> ==============
>> Its going to be a very expensive exercise if they decide to recover the
>> wreckage,
>
> ** Read my first post.
>
> 1500 feet is no big problem for engine & BB recovery.
>

I know that it doable but it will be costly.

--
Daryl

Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu
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 by: Daryl - Sun, 4 Jul 2021 04:42 UTC

On 4/7/21 1:21 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 04-Jul-21 12:04 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 4/7/21 11:12 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>> On 03-Jul-21 3:21 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ll4_33CpxI
>>>>
>>>> Both engines failed after take off.
>>>> Very old plane.
>>>> Pilots picked up by CG heli but reportedly not in good shape.
>>>>
>>>> Water is about 1500 feet deep in that area.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> .....   Phil
>>>>
>>> If this is a two engine failure due to independent causes, I believe
>>> it would be the first for a transport category jet airliner.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Certainly unusual, one engine failed not long after take off and the
>> second starting "running very hot" and losing power about 10mins
>> later, don't know if the second totally failed or it just wasn't
>> producing enough power to maintain altitude.
>> Its going to be a very expensive exercise if they decide to recover
>> the wreckage, without doing that they have little chance of finding
>> out what went wrong.
>>
>
> I think they'll feel they have to recover the wreckage,

Very likely.

unless some
> ham-fisted mechanic comes forward and admits they made the same
> maintenance mistake on both engines (wouldn't be the first time).
>

Not impossible.
I wondered if they put the wrong fuel in, Avgas instead of Jet A?

--
Daryl

Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 14:43:52 +1000
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 by: Daryl - Sun, 4 Jul 2021 04:43 UTC

On 4/7/21 11:58 am, Phil Allison wrote:
> Sylvia Else shifts the context as usual:
> ================================
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ll4_33CpxI
>>>
>>> Both engines failed after take off.
>>> Very old plane.
>>> Pilots picked up by CG heli but reportedly not in good shape.
>>>
>>> Water is about 1500 feet deep in that area.
>>>
>>>
>> If this is a two engine failure due to independent causes, I believe it
>> would be the first for a transport category jet airliner.
>>
>
> ** Bad fuel is one suspect - but that would affect other aircraft using the same supply.
>
> I suspect maintenance or ground crew error ie wrong or missing oil.
>

Maybe not bad fuel but the wrong fuel such as Avgas?

--
Daryl

Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu

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From: syl...@email.invalid (Sylvia Else)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 15:18:57 +1000
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 by: Sylvia Else - Sun, 4 Jul 2021 05:18 UTC

On 04-Jul-21 2:42 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 4/7/21 1:21 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 04-Jul-21 12:04 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 4/7/21 11:12 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>> On 03-Jul-21 3:21 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ll4_33CpxI
>>>>>
>>>>> Both engines failed after take off.
>>>>> Very old plane.
>>>>> Pilots picked up by CG heli but reportedly not in good shape.
>>>>>
>>>>> Water is about 1500 feet deep in that area.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> .....   Phil
>>>>>
>>>> If this is a two engine failure due to independent causes, I believe
>>>> it would be the first for a transport category jet airliner.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Certainly unusual, one engine failed not long after take off and the
>>> second starting "running very hot" and losing power about 10mins
>>> later, don't know if the second totally failed or it just wasn't
>>> producing enough power to maintain altitude.
>>> Its going to be a very expensive exercise if they decide to recover
>>> the wreckage, without doing that they have little chance of finding
>>> out what went wrong.
>>>
>>
>> I think they'll feel they have to recover the wreckage,
>
> Very likely.
>
>  unless some
>> ham-fisted mechanic comes forward and admits they made the same
>> maintenance mistake on both engines (wouldn't be the first time).
>>
>
> Not impossible.
> I wondered if they put the wrong fuel in, Avgas instead of Jet A?
>

Never heard of that happening, though the reverse certainly has often
enough.

Sylvia.

Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu

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Subject: Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Sun, 4 Jul 2021 07:56 UTC

Daryl wrote:
============
>
> >
> > ** Bad fuel is one suspect - but that would affect other aircraft using the same supply.
> >
> > I suspect maintenance or ground crew error ie wrong or missing oil.
> >
> Maybe not bad fuel but the wrong fuel such as Avgas?
>

** That's bad enough.

Here is a news item that shows the actual night rescue.
The B737 must have broken up and sunk fast.

By all accounts, it is near impossible to ditch a B737 on the ocean in the dark with no engines.
Those two pilots have a hell of a story to tell, if they survive their injuries.
Even Sully must be impressed.

...... Phil

Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu

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Subject: Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Sun, 4 Jul 2021 07:57 UTC

Phil Allison wrote:
============

>
> Here is a news item that shows the actual night rescue.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/41400/watch-pilots-get-rescued-after-their-ditched-737-sunk-off-oahu

Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu

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From: use...@account.invalid (keithr0)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 19:28:02 +1000
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 by: keithr0 - Sun, 4 Jul 2021 09:28 UTC

On 4/07/2021 11:12 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 03-Jul-21 3:21 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ll4_33CpxI
>>
>> Both engines failed after take off.
>> Very old plane.
>> Pilots picked up by CG heli but reportedly not in good shape.
>>
>> Water is about 1500 feet deep in that area.
>>
>>
>> .....   Phil
>>
> If this is a two engine failure due to independent causes, I believe it
> would be the first for a transport category jet airliner.
>
> Sylvia.

Crappy old 737 used for freight probably run by a bottom feeding
operation. Hawaii is also hard om aircraft, lots of short runs with a
lot more takeoffs per flying hour. Remember Aloha Airlines Flight 243?

Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu

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From: syl...@email.invalid (Sylvia Else)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 20:03:12 +1000
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 by: Sylvia Else - Sun, 4 Jul 2021 10:03 UTC

On 04-Jul-21 7:28 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 4/07/2021 11:12 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 03-Jul-21 3:21 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ll4_33CpxI
>>>
>>> Both engines failed after take off.
>>> Very old plane.
>>> Pilots picked up by CG heli but reportedly not in good shape.
>>>
>>> Water is about 1500 feet deep in that area.
>>>
>>>
>>> .....   Phil
>>>
>> If this is a two engine failure due to independent causes, I believe
>> it would be the first for a transport category jet airliner.
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> Crappy old 737 used for freight probably run by a bottom feeding
> operation. Hawaii is also hard om aircraft, lots of short runs with a
> lot more takeoffs per flying hour. Remember Aloha Airlines Flight 243?

It did occur to me that the second engine may have already been on the
blink, and known to be so, such that it could never have flown the
aircraft back on its own.

Sylvia.

Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 22:18:26 +1000
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 by: Daryl - Sun, 4 Jul 2021 12:18 UTC

On 4/7/21 7:28 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 4/07/2021 11:12 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 03-Jul-21 3:21 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ll4_33CpxI
>>>
>>> Both engines failed after take off.
>>> Very old plane.
>>> Pilots picked up by CG heli but reportedly not in good shape.
>>>
>>> Water is about 1500 feet deep in that area.
>>>
>>>
>>> .....   Phil
>>>
>> If this is a two engine failure due to independent causes, I believe
>> it would be the first for a transport category jet airliner.
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> Crappy old 737 used for freight probably run by a bottom feeding
> operation. Hawaii is also hard om aircraft, lots of short runs with a
> lot more takeoffs per flying hour. Remember Aloha Airlines Flight 243?

Maybe but the 737-200 if properly equipped can operate from gravel/dirt
runways which later models can't do so whilst it may be old it still can
be a very useful aircraft.

--
Daryl

Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu

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Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu
Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 13:54:31 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: David Lesher - Sun, 4 Jul 2021 13:54 UTC

Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> writes:

>Maybe not bad fuel but the wrong fuel such as Avgas?

Rather hard to do, I'd think. The fancy pressure receptacle
for Jet-A is not like opening the cap atop the wing, and sticking
in a nozzle.

The other question is why they delayed returning. Is the Engine Out
checklist mandatory prior to landing?

--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2021 10:24:20 +1000
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 by: Daryl - Mon, 5 Jul 2021 00:24 UTC

On 4/7/21 11:54 pm, David Lesher wrote:
> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> writes:
>
>
>
>> Maybe not bad fuel but the wrong fuel such as Avgas?
>
> Rather hard to do, I'd think. The fancy pressure receptacle
> for Jet-A is not like opening the cap atop the wing, and sticking
> in a nozzle.
>
> The other question is why they delayed returning. Is the Engine Out
> checklist mandatory prior to landing?
>
I wondered the same thing, looks like they didn't think about the second
engine failing.
They spent an awful lot of time dithering over a checklist when IMHO
they should have got it on the ground ASAP.
You can listen to the communication between the aircraft and ATC here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsjIMAr3nZk
they seemed to be more interested in the checklist than landing although
to be fair it seems that it how they are trained to react in such
situations.

--
Daryl

Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu

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From: syl...@email.invalid (Sylvia Else)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2021 11:53:09 +1000
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 by: Sylvia Else - Mon, 5 Jul 2021 01:53 UTC

On 05-Jul-21 10:24 am, Daryl wrote:
> On 4/7/21 11:54 pm, David Lesher wrote:
>> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> writes:
>>
>>
>>
>>> Maybe not bad fuel but the wrong fuel such as Avgas?
>>
>> Rather hard to do, I'd think. The fancy pressure receptacle
>> for Jet-A is not like opening the cap atop the wing, and sticking
>> in a nozzle.
>>
>> The other question is why they delayed returning. Is the Engine Out
>> checklist mandatory prior to landing?
>>
> I wondered the same thing, looks like they didn't think about the second
> engine failing.
> They spent an awful lot of time dithering over a checklist when IMHO
> they should have got it on the ground ASAP.

There isn't usually any great urgency to get the aircraft on the ground
after an engine failure in a twin-jet, even if the passengers (where
there are some) don't see it that way.

The other engine is expected to continue to run normally, and the
aircraft should fly perfectly well on one engine.

Going through the engine out checklists methodically avoids mistakes.

Clearly, that didn't work out for them here. Whether they were just
extremely unlucky, or whether there is some systemic maintenance issue
is something that will no doubt come out in the investigation.

They didn't need to go so far from the airport, though.

Sylvia.

Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2021 19:21:26 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:21 UTC

"Sylvia Else" <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote in message
news:ikf706F7iepU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 05-Jul-21 10:24 am, Daryl wrote:
>> On 4/7/21 11:54 pm, David Lesher wrote:
>>> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Maybe not bad fuel but the wrong fuel such as Avgas?
>>>
>>> Rather hard to do, I'd think. The fancy pressure receptacle
>>> for Jet-A is not like opening the cap atop the wing, and sticking
>>> in a nozzle.
>>>
>>> The other question is why they delayed returning. Is the Engine Out
>>> checklist mandatory prior to landing?
>>>
>> I wondered the same thing, looks like they didn't think about the second
>> engine failing.
>> They spent an awful lot of time dithering over a checklist when IMHO they
>> should have got it on the ground ASAP.
>
> There isn't usually any great urgency to get the aircraft on the ground
> after an engine failure in a twin-jet, even if the passengers (where there
> are some) don't see it that way.
>
> The other engine is expected to continue to run normally, and the aircraft
> should fly perfectly well on one engine.
>
> Going through the engine out checklists methodically avoids mistakes.
>
> Clearly, that didn't work out for them here. Whether they were just
> extremely unlucky, or whether there is some systemic maintenance issue is
> something that will no doubt come out in the investigation.
>
> They didn't need to go so far from the airport, though.

Yeah, that was stupid.

Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2021 22:48:24 +1000
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 by: Daryl - Mon, 5 Jul 2021 12:48 UTC

On 5/7/21 11:53 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 05-Jul-21 10:24 am, Daryl wrote:
>> On 4/7/21 11:54 pm, David Lesher wrote:
>>> Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Maybe not bad fuel but the wrong fuel such as Avgas?
>>>
>>> Rather hard to do, I'd think. The fancy pressure receptacle
>>> for Jet-A is not like opening the cap atop the wing, and sticking
>>> in a nozzle.
>>>
>>> The other question is why they delayed returning. Is the Engine Out
>>> checklist mandatory prior to landing?
>>>
>> I wondered the same thing, looks like they didn't think about the
>> second engine failing.
>> They spent an awful lot of time dithering over a checklist when IMHO
>> they should have got it on the ground ASAP.
>
> There isn't usually any great urgency to get the aircraft on the ground
> after an engine failure in a twin-jet, even if the passengers (where
> there are some) don't see it that way.

>
> The other engine is expected to continue to run normally, and the
> aircraft should fly perfectly well on one engine.
>
> Going through the engine out checklists methodically avoids mistakes.

It does and its good SOP but they didn't appear to be in much of a hurry.
I know that they have to follow procedure but common sense would dictate
that they also need to act quickly and they appeared to procede at a
very leisurely pace (which is obvious after listening to the radio
communications).
>
> Clearly, that didn't work out for them here. Whether they were just
> extremely unlucky, or whether there is some systemic maintenance issue
> is something that will no doubt come out in the investigation.
>
> They didn't need to go so far from the airport, though.
>

That certainly wasn't a great plan.

--
Daryl

Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu

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From: use...@account.invalid (keithr0)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 16:12:00 +1000
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 by: keithr0 - Tue, 6 Jul 2021 06:12 UTC

On 4/07/2021 10:18 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 4/7/21 7:28 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 4/07/2021 11:12 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>> On 03-Jul-21 3:21 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ll4_33CpxI
>>>>
>>>> Both engines failed after take off.
>>>> Very old plane.
>>>> Pilots picked up by CG heli but reportedly not in good shape.
>>>>
>>>> Water is about 1500 feet deep in that area.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> .....   Phil
>>>>
>>> If this is a two engine failure due to independent causes, I believe
>>> it would be the first for a transport category jet airliner.
>>>
>>> Sylvia.
>>
>> Crappy old 737 used for freight probably run by a bottom feeding
>> operation. Hawaii is also hard om aircraft, lots of short runs with a
>> lot more takeoffs per flying hour. Remember Aloha Airlines Flight 243?
>
>
> Maybe but the 737-200 if properly equipped can operate from gravel/dirt
> runways which later models can't do so whilst it may be old it still can
> be a very useful aircraft.
>
Like I said Hawaii is brutal to aircraft, in the Aloha case the plane
had done 35,496 flight hours but nearly 90,000 flight cycles (takeoffs
and landings).

On the professional forums, the betting is between contaminated fuel and
the pilots turning off the good engine by mistake.

Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: B737 ditches off Honolulu
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2021 16:30:07 +1000
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 by: Daryl - Tue, 6 Jul 2021 06:30 UTC

On 6/7/21 4:12 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 4/07/2021 10:18 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 4/7/21 7:28 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 4/07/2021 11:12 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>> On 03-Jul-21 3:21 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ll4_33CpxI
>>>>>
>>>>> Both engines failed after take off.
>>>>> Very old plane.
>>>>> Pilots picked up by CG heli but reportedly not in good shape.
>>>>>
>>>>> Water is about 1500 feet deep in that area.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> .....   Phil
>>>>>
>>>> If this is a two engine failure due to independent causes, I believe
>>>> it would be the first for a transport category jet airliner.
>>>>
>>>> Sylvia.
>>>
>>> Crappy old 737 used for freight probably run by a bottom feeding
>>> operation. Hawaii is also hard om aircraft, lots of short runs with a
>>> lot more takeoffs per flying hour. Remember Aloha Airlines Flight 243?
>>
>>
>> Maybe but the 737-200 if properly equipped can operate from
>> gravel/dirt runways which later models can't do so whilst it may be
>> old it still can be a very useful aircraft.
>>
> Like I said Hawaii is brutal to aircraft, in the Aloha case the plane
> had done 35,496 flight hours but nearly 90,000 flight cycles (takeoffs
> and landings).

I would of thought that pressurized aircraft had an expiry date
determined by the number of takeoff and landing cycles?
Easy enough to maintain mechanical components but the airframe can't
last forever.

>
> On the professional forums, the betting is between contaminated fuel and
> the pilots turning off the good engine by mistake.

Both reasonable possibilities although the later seems unlikely after
listening to the communications.

--
Daryl

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