My hard drive (data only) is becoming noisy at times and is very old,
probably 12 years. I hope to replace it with a solid state drive.

I am looking at a Samsung 870 Evo. I understand hard drives are 3.5
inches wide with solid state drives 2.5 inches and therefore a cradle
will be needed. Will any cradle do or does it need to match the
specific SSD? Will any cables be needed or is it just a case of
moving the existing cables?

Finally, I already have a 256MB SSD for the operating system and
programs. My thought was to add the new SSD as a data drive. Would
it be better practice to place the OS and programs on the new 1TB
drive?

Can I do this without being an IT expert?

Thanks for any help.

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> My hard drive (data only) is becoming noisy at times and is very old,
> probably 12 years. I hope to replace it with a solid state drive.
>
> I am looking at a Samsung 870 Evo. I understand hard drives are 3.5
> inches wide with solid state drives 2.5 inches and therefore a cradle
> will be needed. Will any cradle do or does it need to match the
> specific SSD? Will any cables be needed or is it just a case of
> moving the existing cables?

The drives are a standard size so any cradle will do. SSDs are sufficiently
light that they don't have to fit in a drive bay - I've previously just
taped them to the casing if I didn't have a convenient bay.

Assuming your system is less than 15 years old, the cabling should be a
direct swap. Although you may find it easier to install the HDD and SSD
together, to make it easier to copy data across. That would require an
additional SATA data cable (assuming a spare port on the motherboard), and
hopefully your PSU has a spare SATA power connector. If you have a DVD you
could steal the connections from there for the duration of the copying, and
you wouldn't need any extra cables.

> Finally, I already have a 256MB SSD for the operating system and
> programs. My thought was to add the new SSD as a data drive. Would
> it be better practice to place the OS and programs on the new 1TB
> drive?

It doesn't really matter either way, although moving the existing Windows
partition you are currently running is somewhat more complicated. Keeping
it as a data drive would be simpler.

> Can I do this without being an IT expert?

Should be fairly straightforward. There is software for Windows to make it
easier, if partitioning the new drive and copying the files across is too
much. But that is really only a handful of clicks in Windows.

Theo

On 14/04/2022 10:19, Scott wrote:
> My hard drive (data only) is becoming noisy at times and is very old,
> probably 12 years. I hope to replace it with a solid state drive.
>
> I am looking at a Samsung 870 Evo. I understand hard drives are 3.5
> inches wide with solid state drives 2.5 inches and therefore a cradle
> will be needed. Will any cradle do or does it need to match the
> specific SSD? Will any cables be needed or is it just a case of
> moving the existing cables?

2.5" SSDs match the size and connector arrangements of 2.5" HDDs and any
cradle will do. Check first though, as many machines have positions that
will take a 2.5" drive anyway and you may not need to use the existing
3.5" position.

> Finally, I already have a 256MB SSD for the operating system and
> programs. My thought was to add the new SSD as a data drive. Would
> it be better practice to place the OS and programs on the new 1TB
> drive?

I'd use whichever one had the fastest data rates, but 256MB is a bit
small these days and you might run out of room for the OS and
Applications there.

> Can I do this without being an IT expert?

Yes. Many drive manufacturers make programs to clone your existing drive
to the new one available on their websites and Samsung seem to.

Another thing to check is your motherboard. If it has an M2 slot, then
you can buy an M2 SSD that will plug straight into the motherboard and
potentially give you a far faster transfer rate.

You have to check carefully though, as some motherboards support
M2-SATA, some M2-PCI-E and some M2-NVME, so you have to get the matching
type of SSD.

On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 10:46:51 +0100, Steve Walker
<steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:

>On 14/04/2022 10:19, Scott wrote:
>> My hard drive (data only) is becoming noisy at times and is very old,
>> probably 12 years. I hope to replace it with a solid state drive.
>>
>> I am looking at a Samsung 870 Evo. I understand hard drives are 3.5
>> inches wide with solid state drives 2.5 inches and therefore a cradle
>> will be needed. Will any cradle do or does it need to match the
>> specific SSD? Will any cables be needed or is it just a case of
>> moving the existing cables?
>
>2.5" SSDs match the size and connector arrangements of 2.5" HDDs and any
>cradle will do. Check first though, as many machines have positions that
>will take a 2.5" drive anyway and you may not need to use the existing
>3.5" position.
>
>> Finally, I already have a 256MB SSD for the operating system and
>> programs. My thought was to add the new SSD as a data drive. Would
>> it be better practice to place the OS and programs on the new 1TB
>> drive?
>
>I'd use whichever one had the fastest data rates, but 256MB is a bit
>small these days and you might run out of room for the OS and
>Applications there.
>
>> Can I do this without being an IT expert?
>
>Yes. Many drive manufacturers make programs to clone your existing drive
>to the new one available on their websites and Samsung seem to.
>
>Another thing to check is your motherboard. If it has an M2 slot, then
>you can buy an M2 SSD that will plug straight into the motherboard and
>potentially give you a far faster transfer rate.
>
>You have to check carefully though, as some motherboards support
>M2-SATA, some M2-PCI-E and some M2-NVME, so you have to get the matching
>type of SSD.

Can I do this visually or does it need research? The machine is an HP
Pavilion (p6235uk) probably 12 years old so I was assuming it would be
of the older design.

Thanks

On 14/04/2022 10:52, Scott wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 10:46:51 +0100, Steve Walker
> <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 14/04/2022 10:19, Scott wrote:
>>> My hard drive (data only) is becoming noisy at times and is very old,
>>> probably 12 years. I hope to replace it with a solid state drive.
>>>
>>> I am looking at a Samsung 870 Evo. I understand hard drives are 3.5
>>> inches wide with solid state drives 2.5 inches and therefore a cradle
>>> will be needed. Will any cradle do or does it need to match the
>>> specific SSD? Will any cables be needed or is it just a case of
>>> moving the existing cables?
>>
>> 2.5" SSDs match the size and connector arrangements of 2.5" HDDs and any
>> cradle will do. Check first though, as many machines have positions that
>> will take a 2.5" drive anyway and you may not need to use the existing
>> 3.5" position.
>>
>>> Finally, I already have a 256MB SSD for the operating system and
>>> programs. My thought was to add the new SSD as a data drive. Would
>>> it be better practice to place the OS and programs on the new 1TB
>>> drive?
>>
>> I'd use whichever one had the fastest data rates, but 256MB is a bit
>> small these days and you might run out of room for the OS and
>> Applications there.
>>
>>> Can I do this without being an IT expert?
>>
>> Yes. Many drive manufacturers make programs to clone your existing drive
>> to the new one available on their websites and Samsung seem to.
>>
>> Another thing to check is your motherboard. If it has an M2 slot, then
>> you can buy an M2 SSD that will plug straight into the motherboard and
>> potentially give you a far faster transfer rate.
>>
>> You have to check carefully though, as some motherboards support
>> M2-SATA, some M2-PCI-E and some M2-NVME, so you have to get the matching
>> type of SSD.
>
> Can I do this visually or does it need research? The machine is an HP
> Pavilion (p6235uk) probably 12 years old so I was assuming it would be
> of the older design.

Ah, likely too old to have M2 support. A quick Google doesn't seem to
mention any.

"Scott" <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:g7pf5hp43d7mv682c1nbnn77ichi4innas@4ax.com...
> My hard drive (data only) is becoming noisy at times and is very old,
> probably 12 years. I hope to replace it with a solid state drive.
>
> I am looking at a Samsung 870 Evo. I understand hard drives are 3.5
> inches wide with solid state drives 2.5 inches and therefore a cradle
> will be needed. Will any cradle do or does it need to match the
> specific SSD? Will any cables be needed or is it just a case of
> moving the existing cables?
>
> Finally, I already have a 256MB SSD for the operating system and
> programs. My thought was to add the new SSD as a data drive. Would
> it be better practice to place the OS and programs on the new 1TB
> drive?
>
> Can I do this without being an IT expert?
>
> Thanks for any help.

Are the cables for your old hard drive the same as for your new one? I.e
SATA rather than 40 pin IDE.
Sata are about 8mm wide & IDE about 45mm wide.
The mounting threads are standard size & spacing for all 2.5" drives.
I prefer separate drives for the Operating System & data but a larger
partitioned drive is also acceptable.
If the drive is only for data you can just add the data & power cables to
your new SSD drive & turn the PC back on.
The drive will probably need to be initialised & formatted which sounds
complicated but is quite easy. You can look up how to do it or post back for
instructions.

--
Regards
wasbit

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 10:46:51 +0100, Steve Walker
> <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
> >You have to check carefully though, as some motherboards support
> >M2-SATA, some M2-PCI-E and some M2-NVME, so you have to get the matching
> >type of SSD.
>
> Can I do this visually or does it need research? The machine is an HP
> Pavilion (p6235uk) probably 12 years old so I was assuming it would be
> of the older design.

If it's 12 years old it won't have an M.2 slot and won't boot off an NVMe
SSD (btw, M.2 PCIe and M.2 NVMe are the same thing). An M.2 SATA drive
would still work in an adapter, but there's no advantage over a 2.5" SATA
SSD in that case.

[An NVMe SSD on a PCIe card (either directly or via an M.2 to PCIe adapter)
would be somewhat faster than SATA but not bootable on this machine. An
option, but I'd say the extra speed wouldn't be worth it if you might ever
want to use it as a boot drive in this machine. The upgrade from a HDD will
be fast enough]

Theo

On 14/04/2022 10:46, Steve Walker wrote:
> On 14/04/2022 10:19, Scott wrote:
>> My hard drive (data only) is becoming noisy at times and is very old,
>> probably 12 years.  I hope to replace it with a solid state drive.
>>
>> I am looking at a Samsung 870 Evo.  I understand hard drives are 3.5
>> inches wide with solid state drives 2.5 inches and therefore a cradle
>> will be needed.  Will any cradle do or does it need to match the
>> specific SSD?  Will any cables be needed or is it just a case of
>> moving the existing cables?
>
> 2.5" SSDs match the size and connector arrangements of 2.5" HDDs and any
> cradle will do. Check first though, as many machines have positions that
> will take a 2.5" drive anyway and you may not need to use the existing
> 3.5" position.
>
>> Finally, I already have a 256MB SSD for the operating system and
>> programs.  My thought was to add the new SSD as a data drive.  Would
>> it be better practice to place the OS and programs on the new 1TB
>> drive?
>
> I'd use whichever one had the fastest data rates, but 256MB is a bit
> small these days and you might run out of room for the OS and
> Applications there.

Likely that the new drive will come with a cut down version of clone my
drive onto the new one (do a backup first!). It is normally routine and
painless but if anything goes wrong serious data loss can occur.

>> Can I do this without being an IT expert?
>
> Yes. Many drive manufacturers make programs to clone your existing drive
> to the new one available on their websites and Samsung seem to.
>
> Another thing to check is your motherboard. If it has an M2 slot, then
> you can buy an M2 SSD that will plug straight into the motherboard and
> potentially give you a far faster transfer rate.
>
> You have to check carefully though, as some motherboards support
> M2-SATA, some M2-PCI-E and some M2-NVME, so you have to get the matching
> type of SSD.

The other thing to check is the manual for the old motherboard since it
many offer both SATA (150) and the faster second generation SATA-II
(300). More recent ones offer SATA-II & SATA-III. SSD's are always best
on the fastest available SATA port that the machine has.

SATA I or II will somewhat hobble a modern fast SSD but it will still be
a *lot* faster than spinning rust (particularly one on its last legs).
That may be an issue in cloning it if there is a bad patch you may test
out seldom trodden paths in the cloning software's error handling.

My Samsung 850 EVO can completely saturate the bandwidth of the even
faster SATA-III (600) connector. That's the last SATA SSD I have.

M2 is always preferable if your motherboard supports it.
(and not necessarily all that much more expensive)

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

In article <g7pf5hp43d7mv682c1nbnn77ichi4innas@4ax.com>,
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> My hard drive (data only) is becoming noisy at times and is very old,
> probably 12 years. I hope to replace it with a solid state drive.

> I am looking at a Samsung 870 Evo. I understand hard drives are 3.5
> inches wide with solid state drives 2.5 inches and therefore a cradle
> will be needed. Will any cradle do or does it need to match the
> specific SSD? Will any cables be needed or is it just a case of
> moving the existing cables?

A year ago, I had an EVO 870 fitted to my PC - the old drive was nearly
full. After only 11 months, it failed fairly catastrophically. Luckily
most of my important data was on Dropbox.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 14/04/2022 10:19, Scott wrote:

> My hard drive (data only) is becoming noisy at times and is very old,
> probably 12 years. I hope to replace it with a solid state drive.

ok

> I am looking at a Samsung 870 Evo. I understand hard drives are 3.5
> inches wide with solid state drives 2.5 inches and therefore a cradle
> will be needed.
> Will any cradle do or does it need to match the
> specific SSD?

The mounting points for both 3.5" and 2.5" drives are standard, so the
cradles are interchangeable. They vary from very simple bent bits of
metal to slightly more elaborate ones that will let you mount 2 smaller
drives in one larger bay.

Note you may not need a cradle - many cases have internal mounting
points for 2.5" drives anyway. (and since they are light and have no
moving parts, can quite often be mounted on some adhesive velcro tape or
similar).

> Will any cables be needed or is it just a case of
> moving the existing cables?

The existing ones should do (unless you change the mounting location too
much!)

> Finally, I already have a 256MB SSD for the operating system and
> programs. My thought was to add the new SSD as a data drive. Would
> it be better practice to place the OS and programs on the new 1TB
> drive?

There is a good argument for having data on a separate drive. The
justification for using the new one for OS and apps might be if it is
significantly higher in performance than the existing 250GB drive.

(a Samsung Evo 870 is a fast SSD - it will typically saturate a 6GB/s
SATA interface, and give sustained 550+MB/sec read speeds. It also has a
decenet amount of DRAM cache to keep write performance high. To go
faster than that you would need to move away from SATA to a drive on a
NVMe interface)

> Can I do this without being an IT expert?

Yup, very easy. I have managed to talk complete novices through the
process on the phone many times (having had the required bits sent to
them).

If you have the space in the existing machine and a spare SATA
interface, then add the drive, run some cloning software, and then
remove (or re-purpose) the old drive. If there is no space, treat
yourself to a USB3 to SATA adaptor (about £10 for a good one) and plug
the new drive in externally to clone to it, and then swap out the internal.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 14/04/2022 11:50, Martin Brown wrote:

> Likely that the new drive will come with a cut down version of clone my
> drive onto the new one (do a backup first!). It is normally routine and
> painless but if anything goes wrong serious data loss can occur.

Samsung supply free cloning software that works well:

https://semiconductor.samsung.com/resources/software-resources/Samsung_Data_Migration_Setup_4.0.0.18.exe

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 14/04/2022 12:21, charles wrote:
> In article <g7pf5hp43d7mv682c1nbnn77ichi4innas@4ax.com>,
> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> My hard drive (data only) is becoming noisy at times and is very old,
>> probably 12 years. I hope to replace it with a solid state drive.
>
>> I am looking at a Samsung 870 Evo. I understand hard drives are 3.5
>> inches wide with solid state drives 2.5 inches and therefore a cradle
>> will be needed. Will any cradle do or does it need to match the
>> specific SSD? Will any cables be needed or is it just a case of
>> moving the existing cables?
>
>
> A year ago, I had an EVO 870 fitted to my PC - the old drive was nearly
> full. After only 11 months, it failed fairly catastrophically. Luckily
> most of my important data was on Dropbox.

As can happen with any drive. Reliable backup is the solution!

However of all the SSDs I have used (and I have bought many hundreds),
the Sumsung drives have so far had the lowest failure rate. At the good
end, Kingston/HyperX "Savage" have been close to faultless, Kingston SSD
now Pretty good (and less than 3 failures out of 100+). At the bad end
Muskin getting on for 80%+ failures within a couple of years. AData even
worse! (and a very high infant mortality rate).

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 14/04/2022 11:28, Steve Walker wrote:
> On 14/04/2022 10:52, Scott wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 10:46:51 +0100, Steve Walker
>> <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 14/04/2022 10:19, Scott wrote:
>>>> My hard drive (data only) is becoming noisy at times and is very old,
>>>> probably 12 years.  I hope to replace it with a solid state drive.
>>>>
>>>> I am looking at a Samsung 870 Evo.  I understand hard drives are 3.5
>>>> inches wide with solid state drives 2.5 inches and therefore a cradle
>>>> will be needed.  Will any cradle do or does it need to match the
>>>> specific SSD?  Will any cables be needed or is it just a case of
>>>> moving the existing cables?
>>>
>>> 2.5" SSDs match the size and connector arrangements of 2.5" HDDs and any
>>> cradle will do. Check first though, as many machines have positions that
>>> will take a 2.5" drive anyway and you may not need to use the existing
>>> 3.5" position.
>>>
>>>> Finally, I already have a 256MB SSD for the operating system and
>>>> programs.  My thought was to add the new SSD as a data drive.  Would
>>>> it be better practice to place the OS and programs on the new 1TB
>>>> drive?
>>>
>>> I'd use whichever one had the fastest data rates, but 256MB is a bit
>>> small these days and you might run out of room for the OS and
>>> Applications there.
>>>
>>>> Can I do this without being an IT expert?
>>>
>>> Yes. Many drive manufacturers make programs to clone your existing drive
>>> to the new one available on their websites and Samsung seem to.
>>>
>>> Another thing to check is your motherboard. If it has an M2 slot, then
>>> you can buy an M2 SSD that will plug straight into the motherboard and
>>> potentially give you a far faster transfer rate.
>>>
>>> You have to check carefully though, as some motherboards support
>>> M2-SATA, some M2-PCI-E and some M2-NVME, so you have to get the matching
>>> type of SSD.
>>
>> Can I do this visually or does it need research?  The machine is an HP
>> Pavilion (p6235uk) probably 12 years old so I was assuming it would be
>> of the older design.
>
> Ah, likely too old to have M2 support. A quick Google doesn't seem to
> mention any.

HP pavilion good machine worth upgrading. That's a dual core pentium
with probably 6GB RAM and can go up to 8.

Will have straight SATA connectors - prolly need a STAT connector and a
disk cradle.

Leave the OS and stuff that gets written to a lot on the old primary SSD
as that is cheaper to replace if it goes bonkers

--
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale
returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.

Mark Twain

On 14/04/2022 10:44, Theo wrote:
> Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> My hard drive (data only) is becoming noisy at times and is very old,
>> probably 12 years. I hope to replace it with a solid state drive.
>>
>> I am looking at a Samsung 870 Evo. I understand hard drives are 3.5
>> inches wide with solid state drives 2.5 inches and therefore a cradle
>> will be needed. Will any cradle do or does it need to match the
>> specific SSD? Will any cables be needed or is it just a case of
>> moving the existing cables?
>
> The drives are a standard size so any cradle will do. SSDs are sufficiently
> light that they don't have to fit in a drive bay - I've previously just
> taped them to the casing if I didn't have a convenient bay.
>
> Assuming your system is less than 15 years old, the cabling should be a
> direct swap. Although you may find it easier to install the HDD and SSD
> together, to make it easier to copy data across. That would require an
> additional SATA data cable (assuming a spare port on the motherboard), and
> hopefully your PSU has a spare SATA power connector. If you have a DVD you
> could steal the connections from there for the duration of the copying, and
> you wouldn't need any extra cables.
>
>> Finally, I already have a 256MB SSD for the operating system and
>> programs. My thought was to add the new SSD as a data drive. Would
>> it be better practice to place the OS and programs on the new 1TB
>> drive?
>
> It doesn't really matter either way, although moving the existing Windows
> partition you are currently running is somewhat more complicated. Keeping
> it as a data drive would be simpler.
>
>> Can I do this without being an IT expert?
>
> Should be fairly straightforward. There is software for Windows to make it
> easier, if partitioning the new drive and copying the files across is too
> much. But that is really only a handful of clicks in Windows.

All very good advice.

I might consider leaving the old HDD in the machine, and after copying
stuff across using it as a backup. There is software that will retain
versions of files, just in case something gets overwritten.

The other thing about being a data drive, there shouldn't be any reason
to have issues with locked files that you might get with the C drive.

On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 13:45:15 +0100, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
[snip]

Thanks to everyone. This has proved to be an adventure. I opened the
machine and worked out how to remove the cradle and looked at all the
cables. One of the cables seemed to be loose and at a twisted angle.
When I tried to adjust this, I broke it. Unfortunately, this turned
out to be the cable for the primary drive. I took it to a computer
shop nearby and he helpfully fixed the problem for £18. Maybe I
should get him to install the SSD?

As I now understand it, I only need a cradle or similar to hold the
new SSD and the existing cables will fit. Mr Memory told me a
completely different story, that I needed a mounting kit and I would
need to buy Kingston to get this.

What is the difference between a basic SSD tray caddy, which seems to
be a shaped bit of steel with holes in it, and a converter drive
adapter, which has a port on it and costs three times as much?

Scott wrote:

> I opened the
> machine and worked out how to remove the cradle and looked at all the
> cables. One of the cables seemed to be loose and at a twisted angle.
> When I tried to adjust this, I broke it. Unfortunately, this turned
> out to be the cable for the primary drive. I took it to a computer
> shop nearby and he helpfully fixed the problem for £18. Maybe I
> should get him to install the SSD?

I'd be scared how much he'd charge you, that's at least a 20x markup on the SATA
cable

> As I now understand it, I only need a cradle or similar to hold the
> new SSD and the existing cables will fit.

As Theo said, a double-sided sticky pad is usually good enough.

> What is the difference between a basic SSD tray caddy, which seems to
> be a shaped bit of steel with holes in it, and a converter drive
> adapter, which has a port on it and costs three times as much?

One maybe for hot-plugging the drive via a floppy slot?

On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 16:59:32 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

>Scott wrote:
>
>> I opened the
>> machine and worked out how to remove the cradle and looked at all the
>> cables. One of the cables seemed to be loose and at a twisted angle.
>> When I tried to adjust this, I broke it. Unfortunately, this turned
>> out to be the cable for the primary drive. I took it to a computer
>> shop nearby and he helpfully fixed the problem for £18. Maybe I
>> should get him to install the SSD?
>
>I'd be scared how much he'd charge you, that's at least a 20x markup on the SATA
>cable

It was the mounting to the motherboard that I broke. I think most of
the charge would be labour although he did replace the cable.
>
>> As I now understand it, I only need a cradle or similar to hold the
>> new SSD and the existing cables will fit.
>
>As Theo said, a double-sided sticky pad is usually good enough.

I'm not too bothered about the cost of the mount. I am more
interested in whether there is any more checking to do to ensure the
existing cables are fit for purpose.
>
>> What is the difference between a basic SSD tray caddy, which seems to
>> be a shaped bit of steel with holes in it, and a converter drive
>> adapter, which has a port on it and costs three times as much?
>
>One maybe for hot-plugging the drive via a floppy slot?

Looking further, this does seem to be the explanation.

On 14/04/2022 16:59, Andy Burns wrote:
> Scott wrote:
>
>> I opened the
>> machine and worked out how to remove the cradle and looked at all the
>> cables.  One of the cables seemed to be loose and at a twisted angle.
>> When I tried to adjust this, I broke it.  Unfortunately, this turned
>> out to be the cable for the primary drive.  I took it to a computer
>> shop nearby and he helpfully fixed the problem for £18.  Maybe I
>> should get him to install the SSD?
>
> I'd be scared how much he'd charge you, that's at least a 20x markup on
> the SATA cable
>
>> As I now understand it, I only need a cradle or similar to hold the
>> new SSD and the existing cables will fit.
>
> As Theo said, a double-sided sticky pad is usually good enough.
>
>> What is the difference between a basic SSD tray caddy, which seems to
>> be a shaped bit of steel with holes in it, and a converter drive
>> adapter, which has a port on it and costs three times as much?
>
> One maybe for hot-plugging the drive via a floppy slot?
>
converter will have electronics to go from e.g. SATA to USB

Juts get the cradle and some screws

--
"If you don’t read the news paper, you are un-informed. If you read the
news paper, you are mis-informed."

Mark Twain

On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 17:36:45 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On 14/04/2022 16:59, Andy Burns wrote:
>> Scott wrote:
>>
>>> I opened the
>>> machine and worked out how to remove the cradle and looked at all the
>>> cables.  One of the cables seemed to be loose and at a twisted angle.
>>> When I tried to adjust this, I broke it.  Unfortunately, this turned
>>> out to be the cable for the primary drive.  I took it to a computer
>>> shop nearby and he helpfully fixed the problem for £18.  Maybe I
>>> should get him to install the SSD?
>>
>> I'd be scared how much he'd charge you, that's at least a 20x markup on
>> the SATA cable
>>
>>> As I now understand it, I only need a cradle or similar to hold the
>>> new SSD and the existing cables will fit.
>>
>> As Theo said, a double-sided sticky pad is usually good enough.
>>
>>> What is the difference between a basic SSD tray caddy, which seems to
>>> be a shaped bit of steel with holes in it, and a converter drive
>>> adapter, which has a port on it and costs three times as much?
>>
>> One maybe for hot-plugging the drive via a floppy slot?
>>
>converter will have electronics to go from e.g. SATA to USB
>
>Juts get the cradle and some screws

Thanks. That seems to be it.

On 14/04/2022 16:47, Scott wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 13:45:15 +0100, John Rumm
> <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
> [snip]
>
> Thanks to everyone. This has proved to be an adventure. I opened the
> machine and worked out how to remove the cradle and looked at all the
> cables. One of the cables seemed to be loose and at a twisted angle.
> When I tried to adjust this, I broke it. Unfortunately, this turned
> out to be the cable for the primary drive. I took it to a computer
> shop nearby and he helpfully fixed the problem for £18. Maybe I
> should get him to install the SSD?

Not at those prices!

> As I now understand it, I only need a cradle or similar to hold the
> new SSD and the existing cables will fit.

Yup... and as others have said, the cradle is often not necessary.

> Mr Memory told me a
> completely different story, that I needed a mounting kit and I would
> need to buy Kingston to get this.

Some retail packaged SSDs come with basic mounting kits. Handy if you
need one, but probably not enough incentive to go for it unless you also
want that make/model of SSD.

> What is the difference between a basic SSD tray caddy, which seems to
> be a shaped bit of steel with holes in it, and a converter drive
> adapter, which has a port on it and costs three times as much?

A cradle is basically a passive thing to allow the different sized bits
to be screwed into place. You can also get a caddie that will allow a
SATA drive to be mounted on a USB port - that is an active adaptor with
a small interface chip to allow one hardware interface to be connected
to the other and presented as a USB mass storage device.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 14/04/2022 17:22, Scott wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 16:59:32 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> Scott wrote:
>>
>>> I opened the
>>> machine and worked out how to remove the cradle and looked at all the
>>> cables. One of the cables seemed to be loose and at a twisted angle.
>>> When I tried to adjust this, I broke it. Unfortunately, this turned
>>> out to be the cable for the primary drive. I took it to a computer
>>> shop nearby and he helpfully fixed the problem for £18. Maybe I
>>> should get him to install the SSD?
>>
>> I'd be scared how much he'd charge you, that's at least a 20x markup on the SATA
>> cable
>
> It was the mounting to the motherboard that I broke. I think most of
> the charge would be labour although he did replace the cable.

It is possible you pull the plastic shroud off the mobo. Typically that
leaves the pins in place, and you can normally get the plastic back on
if you are careful.

Basically take care when pulling a cable free - some have metal locking
clips, you need to squeeze the clips to remove the plug. Also take care
with right angled sockets that deflect the SATA plug to the side - they
don't like being accidentally yanked straight up (DAMHIK!)

>>
>>> As I now understand it, I only need a cradle or similar to hold the
>>> new SSD and the existing cables will fit.
>>
>> As Theo said, a double-sided sticky pad is usually good enough.
>
> I'm not too bothered about the cost of the mount. I am more
> interested in whether there is any more checking to do to ensure the
> existing cables are fit for purpose.
>>
>>> What is the difference between a basic SSD tray caddy, which seems to
>>> be a shaped bit of steel with holes in it, and a converter drive
>>> adapter, which has a port on it and costs three times as much?
>>
>> One maybe for hot-plugging the drive via a floppy slot?
>
> Looking further, this does seem to be the explanation.

Yup that is another option. SATA devices can be "hot swapped" with the
right kind of mounted connector.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 18:46:59 +0100, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:

>On 14/04/2022 17:22, Scott wrote:
>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 16:59:32 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Scott wrote:
>>>
>>>> I opened the
>>>> machine and worked out how to remove the cradle and looked at all the
>>>> cables. One of the cables seemed to be loose and at a twisted angle.
>>>> When I tried to adjust this, I broke it. Unfortunately, this turned
>>>> out to be the cable for the primary drive. I took it to a computer
>>>> shop nearby and he helpfully fixed the problem for £18. Maybe I
>>>> should get him to install the SSD?
>>>
>>> I'd be scared how much he'd charge you, that's at least a 20x markup on the SATA
>>> cable
>>
>> It was the mounting to the motherboard that I broke. I think most of
>> the charge would be labour although he did replace the cable.
>
>It is possible you pull the plastic shroud off the mobo. Typically that
>leaves the pins in place, and you can normally get the plastic back on
>if you are careful.
>
>Basically take care when pulling a cable free - some have metal locking
>clips, you need to squeeze the clips to remove the plug. Also take care
>with right angled sockets that deflect the SATA plug to the side - they
>don't like being accidentally yanked straight up (DAMHIK!)
>
How did he manage to fix it if I broke off some of the pins?

On 15/04/2022 10:54, Scott wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 18:46:59 +0100, John Rumm
> <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
>
>> On 14/04/2022 17:22, Scott wrote:
>>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 16:59:32 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Scott wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I opened the
>>>>> machine and worked out how to remove the cradle and looked at all the
>>>>> cables. One of the cables seemed to be loose and at a twisted angle.
>>>>> When I tried to adjust this, I broke it. Unfortunately, this turned
>>>>> out to be the cable for the primary drive. I took it to a computer
>>>>> shop nearby and he helpfully fixed the problem for £18. Maybe I
>>>>> should get him to install the SSD?
>>>>
>>>> I'd be scared how much he'd charge you, that's at least a 20x markup on the SATA
>>>> cable
>>>
>>> It was the mounting to the motherboard that I broke. I think most of
>>> the charge would be labour although he did replace the cable.
>>
>> It is possible you pull the plastic shroud off the mobo. Typically that
>> leaves the pins in place, and you can normally get the plastic back on
>> if you are careful.
>>
>> Basically take care when pulling a cable free - some have metal locking
>> clips, you need to squeeze the clips to remove the plug. Also take care
>> with right angled sockets that deflect the SATA plug to the side - they
>> don't like being accidentally yanked straight up (DAMHIK!)
>>
> How did he manage to fix it if I broke off some of the pins?

Probably by desoldering the original connector and fitting a new one.
They are typically through hole mounting and right at the edge of the
board which makes them a bit easier - especially if you have a hot air
rework station.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 15/04/2022 10:54, Scott wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 18:46:59 +0100, John Rumm
> <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
>
>> On 14/04/2022 17:22, Scott wrote:
>>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 16:59:32 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Scott wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I opened the
>>>>> machine and worked out how to remove the cradle and looked at all the
>>>>> cables. One of the cables seemed to be loose and at a twisted angle.
>>>>> When I tried to adjust this, I broke it. Unfortunately, this turned
>>>>> out to be the cable for the primary drive. I took it to a computer
>>>>> shop nearby and he helpfully fixed the problem for £18. Maybe I
>>>>> should get him to install the SSD?
>>>>
>>>> I'd be scared how much he'd charge you, that's at least a 20x markup on the SATA
>>>> cable
>>>
>>> It was the mounting to the motherboard that I broke. I think most of
>>> the charge would be labour although he did replace the cable.
>>
>> It is possible you pull the plastic shroud off the mobo. Typically that
>> leaves the pins in place, and you can normally get the plastic back on
>> if you are careful.
>>
>> Basically take care when pulling a cable free - some have metal locking
>> clips, you need to squeeze the clips to remove the plug. Also take care
>> with right angled sockets that deflect the SATA plug to the side - they
>> don't like being accidentally yanked straight up (DAMHIK!)
>>
> How did he manage to fix it if I broke off some of the pins?

Desolder the old broken component, insert a new one and solder it in.
Solder sucker is the neatest but fluxed copper wick will do at a pinch.

You need a fairly beefy soldering iron and a good magnifying glass to
check the joints but it isn't rocket science. Closer to plumbing!

The ground planes on PC motherboards make certain pins rather hard to
melt the solder on with anything but a thermostatically controlled high
power soldering iron. It is just about DIYable if you can solder.

I have replaced the odd failed capacitor in my time. Back in the days of
the stolen Murata capacitor formula and the knock off Chinese fakes that
failed after 3-4 years by internal gassing.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 4/15/2022 5:54 AM, Scott wrote:
> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 18:46:59 +0100, John Rumm
> <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
>
>> On 14/04/2022 17:22, Scott wrote:
>>> On Thu, 14 Apr 2022 16:59:32 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Scott wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I opened the
>>>>> machine and worked out how to remove the cradle and looked at all the
>>>>> cables. One of the cables seemed to be loose and at a twisted angle.
>>>>> When I tried to adjust this, I broke it. Unfortunately, this turned
>>>>> out to be the cable for the primary drive. I took it to a computer
>>>>> shop nearby and he helpfully fixed the problem for £18. Maybe I
>>>>> should get him to install the SSD?
>>>>
>>>> I'd be scared how much he'd charge you, that's at least a 20x markup on the SATA
>>>> cable
>>>
>>> It was the mounting to the motherboard that I broke. I think most of
>>> the charge would be labour although he did replace the cable.
>>
>> It is possible you pull the plastic shroud off the mobo. Typically that
>> leaves the pins in place, and you can normally get the plastic back on
>> if you are careful.
>>
>> Basically take care when pulling a cable free - some have metal locking
>> clips, you need to squeeze the clips to remove the plug. Also take care
>> with right angled sockets that deflect the SATA plug to the side - they
>> don't like being accidentally yanked straight up (DAMHIK!)
>>
> How did he manage to fix it if I broke off some of the pins?
>

The first generation vertical ones had no mechanical strength
when you pulled on them. I have an Asrock 4Core family board
(VIA chipset) with two of those connectors on it.

The pins are thruhole, with very little excess pin length.
The end pins are a forked piece of metal, intended to keep
the connector in the board during soldering. First, clean up
with solder wick or a Solder Sucker, then insert a new connector.
You can only fit a connector, with the same thruhole pattern.
Modern connectors may be SMT and not compatible, so repair
parts won't be available indefinitely.

https://i.postimg.cc/v8v8pfM4/SATA-poor.gif

If you pull on the cable, the thing comes off the board.

Cables with second generation metal "jaw" on the end, the
jaw must be fully depressed while you attempt to remove the cable.
Inspect the jaw action, before installing the cable, so you
know how it works later.

What I would do with those cables, is once you select the
right cable for the job (straight on one end, right-angle
on the other end), leave the cable connected to the motherboard
whether a drive is installed for it or not. The cables do not
mind just sitting there, with no drive. Both my computers here
are run that way. Just don't jam the cables into areas
with high voltages or exposed wiring.

Paul