I see that the Daily Telegraph is reporting that ministers are actively considering speed limiters on new vehicles to fall in line with a similar EU directive.

My Kuga already has such a system and I already have some concerns about how it works. The system relies on a camera spotting road signs rather than GPS, with the limiter on and on the motorway it will pick up the lane speeds from overhead gantry’s and power down the engine to comply but as far as I am aware the brake lights do not come on so no warning to anyone behind.

During normal driving the speed limit displays on the dashboard but the results can be spurious. On a 30mph road I frequently use there a number of side streets which have 20mph limits and on those that are at an acute angle the camera often picks up the road sign and declares the main road limit as 20mph. Partially obscured signs are often missed too.

I can understand the need for safety for considering such systems but to my mind it creates as many problems as it solves.

Richard

On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 17:44:17 +1000, Tricky Dicky <tricky.dicky@sky.com>
wrote:

> I see that the Daily Telegraph is reporting that ministers are actively
> considering speed limiters on new vehicles to fall in line with a
> similar EU directive.
>
> My Kuga already has such a system and I already have some concerns about
> how it works. The system relies on a camera spotting road signs rather
> than GPS, with the limiter on and on the motorway it will pick up the
> lane speeds from overhead gantry’s and power down the engine to comply

That isnt how the EU system works.

> but as far as I am aware the brake lights do not come on so no warning
> to anyone behind.
>
> During normal driving the speed limit displays on the dashboard but the
> results can be spurious. On a 30mph road I frequently use there a number
> of side streets which have 20mph limits and on those that are at an
> acute angle the camera often picks up the road sign and declares the
> main road limit as 20mph. Partially obscured signs are often missed too.
>
> I can understand the need for safety for considering such systems but to
> my mind it creates as many problems as it solves.

Not true of the EU system, the driver is free to override it if he chooses.

On 16/04/2022 08:44, Tricky Dicky wrote:
> I see that the Daily Telegraph is reporting that ministers are actively considering speed limiters on new vehicles to fall in line with a similar EU directive.
>
> My Kuga already has such a system and I already have some concerns about how it works. The system relies on a camera spotting road signs rather than GPS,

Just put something over the camera lens to defocus the image.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 09:28:13 +0100, alan_m wrote:

> On 16/04/2022 08:44, Tricky Dicky wrote:
>> I see that the Daily Telegraph is reporting that ministers are actively
>> considering speed limiters on new vehicles to fall in line with a
>> similar EU directive.
>>
>> My Kuga already has such a system and I already have some concerns
>> about how it works. The system relies on a camera spotting road signs
>> rather than GPS,
>
> Just put something over the camera lens to defocus the image.

No need. It can be turned off. In fact, by default it's off (at least on
my Ford S-Max).

--
My posts are my copyright and if @diy_forums or Home Owners' Hub
wish to copy them they can pay me £1 a message.
Use the BIG mirror service in the UK: http://www.mirrorservice.org
*lightning surge protection* - a w_tom conductor

On 16 Apr 2022 at 08:44:17 BST, Tricky Dicky <tricky.dicky@sky.com> wrote:

> During normal driving the speed limit displays on the dashboard but the results can be spurious. On a 30mph road I frequently use there a number of side streets which have 20mph limits and on those that are at an acute angle the camera often picks up the road sign and declares the main road limit as 20mph. Partially obscured signs are often missed too.

Just find a foreign truck with that set of speed limit roundels listed on the
back. One of those will reset your speed limit to 90mph.

--
"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689

On 16/04/2022 in message
<7adb9482-4ca0-4102-ba52-a0b425cb3541n@googlegroups.com> Tricky Dicky wrote:

>During normal driving the speed limit displays on the dashboard but the
>results can be spurious. On a 30mph road I frequently use there a number
>of side streets which have 20mph limits and on those that are at an acute
>angle the camera often picks up the road sign and declares the main road
>limit as 20mph. Partially obscured signs are often missed too.

When entering Oare (on the way to Marlborough) my Suzuki always showed two
speed limit signs, one "30" and the other "40", it also misses signs and
shows incorrect signs.

I think the EU system relies on GPS.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
That's an amazing invention but who would ever want to use one of them?
(President Hayes speaking to Alexander Graham Bell on the invention of the
telephone)

On 16/04/2022 08:44, Tricky Dicky wrote:
> I see that the Daily Telegraph is reporting that ministers are actively considering speed limiters on new vehicles to fall in line with a similar EU directive.
>
> My Kuga already has such a system and I already have some concerns about how it works. The system relies on a camera spotting road signs rather than GPS, with the limiter on and on the motorway it will pick up the lane speeds from overhead gantry’s and power down the engine to comply but as far as I am aware the brake lights do not come on so no warning to anyone behind.

Surely that is no different to you lifting your foot off the accelerator
and allowing your speed to drop? You don't brake, so no brake lights.

> During normal driving the speed limit displays on the dashboard but the results can be spurious. On a 30mph road I frequently use there a number of side streets which have 20mph limits and on those that are at an acute angle the camera often picks up the road sign and declares the main road limit as 20mph. Partially obscured signs are often missed too.

Yes, that can be a real problem.

> I can understand the need for safety for considering such systems but to my mind it creates as many problems as it solves.

I think that there are also other risks - you pull out to overtake, but
the vehicle in front speeds up and the gap you pulled out of has closed
up, so you need to accelerate. Even if the system lets you overide it,
your planned rate of acceleration has been momentarily interrupted and
the overtake takes longer.

Or as I had - a call from the hospital to say that they thought my son
had taken a sudden turn for the worse and he might be about to die ... I
was not for obeying speed limits on the way back there.

On 16 Apr 2022 09:33:07 GMT, Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net>
wrote:

>On 16 Apr 2022 at 08:44:17 BST, Tricky Dicky <tricky.dicky@sky.com> wrote:
>
>> During normal driving the speed limit displays on the dashboard but the results can be spurious. On a 30mph road I frequently use there a number of side streets which have 20mph limits and on those that are at an acute angle the camera often picks up the road sign and declares the main road limit as 20mph. Partially obscured signs are often missed too.
>
>Just find a foreign truck with that set of speed limit roundels listed on the
>back. One of those will reset your speed limit to 90mph.

My car will respond to the speed discs on UK trucks, and the speed
limit display changes to show if the indicated speed is being complied
with or not.

>Surely that is no different to you lifting your foot off the accelerator
>and allowing your speed to drop? You don't brake, so no brake lights.

Not in EV mode doing 70mph and the overhead says 50mph the slow down can be quite dramatic

The car does have a kick down on the accelerator to exit limiter mode but as someone has already said that involves a sight delay.

Richard

Tricky Dicky wrote:

> ministers are actively considering speed limiters on new vehicles to fall in line with a similar EU directive.

AFAIK, it's a done deal, I think if you stick your foot down harder it will
override it, and maybe beep a little, I'm sure it'll be possible to reprogram it
with an OBDII cable ...

On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 09:52:21 +0000, Jeff Gaines wrote:

> I think the EU system relies on GPS.

Not a great idea where motorways go over or under a dirt track.

On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 12:41:21 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:

> On 16/04/2022 08:44, Tricky Dicky wrote:
>> [quoted text muted]
>
> Surely that is no different to you lifting your foot off the accelerator
> and allowing your speed to drop? You don't brake, so no brake lights.

My (SEAT Ateca) has a feature where releasing the loud pedal you go into
a coast mode which can keep the car at speed for a surprisingly long
time. It's all part of the fuel saving gubbins.

Best and most used gadget since 2012 has been the speed limiter in every
car I've had since. If people have a problem with it, it's because they
are stupid, not because it is in any way new or even complicated.

Weirdly I originally though a cruise control would be a game changer. But
not in the UK it seems.

On 16/04/2022 13:50, Jethro_uk wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 12:41:21 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:
>
>> On 16/04/2022 08:44, Tricky Dicky wrote:
>>> [quoted text muted]
>>
>> Surely that is no different to you lifting your foot off the accelerator
>> and allowing your speed to drop? You don't brake, so no brake lights.
>
> My (SEAT Ateca) has a feature where releasing the loud pedal you go into
> a coast mode which can keep the car at speed for a surprisingly long
> time. It's all part of the fuel saving gubbins.
>
> Best and most used gadget since 2012 has been the speed limiter in every
> car I've had since. If people have a problem with it, it's because they
> are stupid, not because it is in any way new or even complicated.

My Jazz Mk3 has a speed limiter, but the software operating it isn't the
cleverest.

In "notify" mode, it just displays the speed limit picked up from the
signs or motorway gantries. In "limit" mode, it shows the set limit as
well as the limit itself, and keeps to that set limit. The set limit can
be adjusted up in 1mph steps to a max of 5 mph over the limit. I assume
that's to satisfy those who know that car speedos often show speeds
higher than the actual speed.

So far so good. The first programming failure is that if you stop the
car and turn off the engine, when restarted it does not automatically
resume at the same limit, it just resets to an "unknown" limit! Although
you can set any limit yourself, if you set it to 40 and you're actually
in a 30, you could be in trouble. Why wasn't it programmed to start at
the limit set when the engine was stopped?

The second issue is really weird. If you indicate to turn right at, for
example, a roundabout or junction, as soon as you begin to straighten
out on the new road, the speed indicator resets itself to the "unknown"
limit! It does this 9 times out of 10. It's less frequent when turning
left, but can occur. Very strangely, it almost never resets if the
indicators are not used at the roundabout or junction (am I the only
person who still uses turn signals?). What's the programming behind that?!

> Weirdly I originally though a cruise control would be a game changer. But
> not in the UK it seems.

Not enough long stretches of motorway with little traffic. In North
America it's a different story.

--

Jeff

On 16/04/2022 14:57, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 16/04/2022 13:50, Jethro_uk wrote:
.....
>> Weirdly I originally though a cruise control would be a game changer. But
>> not in the UK it seems.
>
> Not enough long stretches of motorway with little traffic. In North
> America it's a different story.
>

It works well in much of continental Europe. In the UK, the traffic is
too dense and drivers tend to drop in too close ahead for the radar on
mine to be happy about the spacing.

--
Colin Bignell

On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 14:57:41 +0100, Jeff Layman wrote:

> So far so good. The first programming failure is that if you stop the
> car and turn off the engine, when restarted it does not automatically
> resume at the same limit, it just resets to an "unknown" limit! Although
> you can set any limit yourself, if you set it to 40 and you're actually
> in a 30, you could be in trouble. Why wasn't it programmed to start at
> the limit set when the engine was stopped?

I have exactly the same grumble. And I invite posters here to try to
conceive of the edge case (if it exists) where you arrive at your
destination in a (say) 30mph limit, but when you leave, there is no limit
and hence the limiter is off.

The only one I can think of is where there is a time-dependent speed
limit. But - in the UK certainly - that's only a motorway or dual
carriageway. And you aren't stopping to park there.

On 16/04/2022 01:50 pm, Jethro_uk wrote:

> On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 12:41:21 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:

[ ... ]

> Best and most used gadget since 2012 has been the speed limiter in every
> car I've had since. If people have a problem with it, it's because they
> are stupid, not because it is in any way new or even complicated.

> Weirdly I originally though a cruise control would be a game changer. But
> not in the UK it seems.

I agree. I hardly ever have occasion to use the cruise control, but the
speed limiter - esp in 30mph zones - is invaluable.

The only snag is that it won't apply the brakes going downhill (in order
to overcome the acceleration effects caused by gravity). If it could do
that, it'd be perfect.

On 16/04/2022 02:57 pm, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 16/04/2022 13:50, Jethro_uk wrote:
>> On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 12:41:21 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:
>>
>>> On 16/04/2022 08:44, Tricky Dicky wrote:
>>>> [quoted text muted]
>>>
>>> Surely that is no different to you lifting your foot off the accelerator
>>> and allowing your speed to drop? You don't brake, so no brake lights.
>>
>> My (SEAT Ateca) has a feature where releasing the loud pedal you go into
>> a coast mode which can keep the car at speed for a surprisingly long
>> time. It's all part of the fuel saving gubbins.
>>
>> Best and most used gadget since 2012 has been the speed limiter in every
>> car I've had since. If people have a problem with it, it's because they
>> are stupid, not because it is in any way new or even complicated.
>
> My Jazz Mk3 has a speed limiter, but the software operating it isn't the
> cleverest.
>
> In "notify" mode, it just displays the speed limit picked up from the
> signs or motorway gantries. In "limit" mode, it shows the set limit as
> well as the limit itself, and keeps to that set limit. The set limit can
> be adjusted up in 1mph steps to a max of 5 mph over the limit. I assume
> that's to satisfy those who know that car speedos often show speeds
> higher than the actual speed.

For 30 zones, I set the limiter to 31 (checked it with a satnav).

41 for 40, 52 for 50.

> So far so good. The first programming failure is that if you stop the
> car and turn off the engine, when restarted it does not automatically
> resume at the same limit, it just resets to an "unknown" limit! Although
> you can set any limit yourself, if you set it to 40 and you're actually
> in a 30, you could be in trouble. Why wasn't it programmed to start at
> the limit set when the engine was stopped?

Mine does retain the last limit set, but leaves it at "pause" rather
than "on".

> The second issue is really weird. If you indicate to turn right at, for
> example, a roundabout or junction, as soon as you begin to straighten
> out on the new road, the speed indicator resets itself to the "unknown"
> limit! It does this 9 times out of 10. It's less frequent when turning
> left, but can occur. Very strangely, it almost never resets if the
> indicators are not used at the roundabout or junction (am I the only
> person who still uses turn signals?). What's the programming behind that?!

Sounds like fault rather than feature.

>> Weirdly I originally though a cruise control would be a game changer. But
>> not in the UK it seems.
>
> Not enough long stretches of motorway with little traffic. In North
> America it's a different story.

On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 22:46:43 +1000, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com>
wrote:

> On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 09:52:21 +0000, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
>> I think the EU system relies on GPS.
>
> Not a great idea where motorways go over or under a dirt track.

Works fine because it can see that the satellites aren't visible for a
bit, like with tunnels.

On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 23:57:41 +1000, Jeff Layman <jmlayman@invalid.invalid>
wrote:

> On 16/04/2022 13:50, Jethro_uk wrote:
>> On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 12:41:21 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:
>>
>>> On 16/04/2022 08:44, Tricky Dicky wrote:
>>>> [quoted text muted]
>>>
>>> Surely that is no different to you lifting your foot off the
>>> accelerator
>>> and allowing your speed to drop? You don't brake, so no brake lights.
>> My (SEAT Ateca) has a feature where releasing the loud pedal you go
>> into
>> a coast mode which can keep the car at speed for a surprisingly long
>> time. It's all part of the fuel saving gubbins.
>> Best and most used gadget since 2012 has been the speed limiter in
>> every
>> car I've had since. If people have a problem with it, it's because they
>> are stupid, not because it is in any way new or even complicated.
>
> My Jazz Mk3 has a speed limiter, but the software operating it isn't the
> cleverest.
>
> In "notify" mode, it just displays the speed limit picked up from the
> signs or motorway gantries. In "limit" mode, it shows the set limit as
> well as the limit itself, and keeps to that set limit. The set limit can
> be adjusted up in 1mph steps to a max of 5 mph over the limit. I assume
> that's to satisfy those who know that car speedos often show speeds
> higher than the actual speed.
>
> So far so good. The first programming failure is that if you stop the
> car and turn off the engine, when restarted it does not automatically
> resume at the same limit, it just resets to an "unknown" limit! Although
> you can set any limit yourself, if you set it to 40 and you're actually
> in a 30, you could be in trouble. Why wasn't it programmed to start at
> the limit set when the engine was stopped?
>
> The second issue is really weird. If you indicate to turn right at, for
> example, a roundabout or junction, as soon as you begin to straighten
> out on the new road, the speed indicator resets itself to the "unknown"
> limit! It does this 9 times out of 10. It's less frequent when turning
> left, but can occur. Very strangely, it almost never resets if the
> indicators are not used at the roundabout or junction (am I the only
> person who still uses turn signals?). What's the programming behind
> that?!
>
>> Weirdly I originally though a cruise control would be a game changer.
>> But
>> not in the UK it seems.
>
> Not enough long stretches of motorway with little traffic. In North
> America it's a different story.

Doesn't need to be little traffic, the best cruise controls allow you
to specify the distance from the car in front of you to travel. So it
is completely automatic when you come up to a car which is moving
slower than you want to cruise at, so you decide when to overtake if
you want to do that, or just cruise at the other car's speed.

The main thing none of them currently do is track the speed limit
when you come to a town, slow down thru the town and speed up
again once thru the town.

Some of Hondas will actually continue cruise thru traffic jams,
stopping and starting the car completely automatically.

On 16/04/2022 08:44, Tricky Dicky wrote:
> I see that the Daily Telegraph is reporting that ministers are actively considering speed limiters on new vehicles to fall in line with a similar EU directive.
>
> My Kuga already has such a system and I already have some concerns about how it works. The system relies on a camera spotting road signs rather than GPS, with the limiter on and on the motorway it will pick up the lane speeds from overhead gantry’s and power down the engine to comply but as far as I am aware the brake lights do not come on so no warning to anyone behind.
>
> During normal driving the speed limit displays on the dashboard but the results can be spurious. On a 30mph road I frequently use there a number of side streets which have 20mph limits and on those that are at an acute angle the camera often picks up the road sign and declares the main road limit as 20mph. Partially obscured signs are often missed too.
>
> I can understand the need for safety for considering such systems but to my mind it creates as many problems as it solves.
>
> Richard

If had my way a speed up device should be fitted to cars to get the
wankers up to the speed limit.

On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 18:00:28 +0100, JNugent wrote:

> On 16/04/2022 01:50 pm, Jethro_uk wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 12:41:21 +0100, Steve Walker wrote:
>
> [ ... ]
>
>> Best and most used gadget since 2012 has been the speed limiter in
>> every car I've had since. If people have a problem with it, it's
>> because they are stupid, not because it is in any way new or even
>> complicated.
>
>> Weirdly I originally though a cruise control would be a game changer.
>> But not in the UK it seems.
>
> I agree. I hardly ever have occasion to use the cruise control, but the
> speed limiter - esp in 30mph zones - is invaluable.
>
> The only snag is that it won't apply the brakes going downhill (in order
> to overcome the acceleration effects caused by gravity). If it could do
> that, it'd be perfect.

The engine pull in the SEAT helps, but as you say you get runaway. I can
knock the (auto) gear down one, but it's a faff.

It's why (passim) I leave mine at 30 which is really 28. You get a slight
float for average speed cameras - especially when (if ?) they start
policing zones as well as roads with ASCs.

On 16/04/2022 13:42, Tricky Dicky wrote:
>> Surely that is no different to you lifting your foot off the accelerator
>> and allowing your speed to drop? You don't brake, so no brake lights.
>
> Not in EV mode doing 70mph and the overhead says 50mph the slow down can be quite dramatic

That seems a very poor design, surely it could start decelerating early
enough and at a rate similar to an IC engined car, so as to fit in with
the rest of the traffic?

In message <t3f7dh$mp6$1@dont-email.me>, ARW
<adamwadsworth@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>On 16/04/2022 08:44, Tricky Dicky wrote:
>> I see that the Daily Telegraph is reporting that ministers are
>>actively considering speed limiters on new vehicles to fall in line
>>with a similar EU directive.
>> My Kuga already has such a system and I already have some concerns
>>about how it works. The system relies on a camera spotting road signs
>>rather than GPS, with the limiter on and on the motorway it will pick
>>up the lane speeds from overhead gantry’s and power down the engine
>>to comply but as far as I am aware the brake lights do not come on so
>>no warning to anyone behind.
>> During normal driving the speed limit displays on the dashboard but
>>the results can be spurious. On a 30mph road I frequently use there a
>>number of side streets which have 20mph limits and on those that are
>>at an acute angle the camera often picks up the road sign and declares
>>the main road limit as 20mph. Partially obscured signs are often missed too.
>> I can understand the need for safety for considering such systems
>>but to my mind it creates as many problems as it solves.
>> Richard
>
>If had my way a speed up device should be fitted to cars to get the
>wankers up to the speed limit.

The trick is to not drive after 9.00am when us geriatrics venture
forth:-)

--
Tim Lamb

On 17/04/2022 08:49, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <t3f7dh$mp6$1@dont-email.me>, ARW
> <adamwadsworth@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
>> On 16/04/2022 08:44, Tricky Dicky wrote:
>>> I see that the Daily Telegraph is reporting that ministers are
>>> actively considering speed limiters on new vehicles to fall in line
>>> with a similar EU directive.
>>>  My Kuga already has such a system and I already have some concerns
>>> about how it works. The system relies on a camera spotting road signs
>>> rather than GPS, with the limiter on and on the motorway it will pick
>>> up the lane speeds from overhead gantry’s and power down the engine
>>> to comply but as far as I am aware the brake lights do not come on so
>>> no warning to anyone behind.
>>>  During normal driving the speed limit displays on the dashboard but
>>> the results can be spurious. On a 30mph road I frequently use there a
>>> number of side streets which have 20mph limits and on those that are
>>> at an acute angle the camera often picks up the road sign and
>>> declares the main road limit as 20mph. Partially obscured signs are
>>> often missed too.
>>>  I can understand the need for safety for considering such systems
>>> but to my mind it creates as many problems as it solves.
>>>  Richard
>>
>> If had my way a speed up device should be fitted to cars to get the
>> wankers up to the speed limit.
>
> The trick is to not drive after 9.00am when us geriatrics venture forth:-)
>

I had a geriatric passenger yesterday:-)

He was delighted when I passed my car parking pay and display ticket to
the bloke that took my parking spot as I left as there was 2 hours left
on it. No number plate details had to be entered on the machine.

--

Adam

On 17/04/2022 10:37, ARW wrote:

> I had a geriatric passenger yesterday:-)

>
> He was delighted when I passed my car parking pay and display ticket to
> the bloke that took my parking spot as I left as there was 2 hours left
> on it. No number plate details had to be entered on the machine.
>
> --
>
> Adam

You and your passenger sound like complete anarchists.

Bill