A fiend of mine was very excited yesterday evening when he was driving home.
He said the moon was three times its usual size and reddy yellow colour.

Obviously I cannot comment myself, but I do recall back in the 80s, sitting
on the Breakwater a resort on Tenerife, and in one direction the sun was
setting and that was dim but you could see it reflected in the see, and in
the other was this apparently huge mooned rising. My thought then as now
were that its an optical illusion or some artefact due to the low angle
through more of the atmosphere at that angle.

Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!

On 17/04/2022 09:05, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> A fiend of mine was very excited yesterday evening when he was driving home.
> He said the moon was three times its usual size and reddy yellow colour.

It is a purely optical illusion.

The moon when it is rising is fully one Earth radius further away from
an observer and slightly vertically compressed for good measure.

Chapter and verse here together with some nice photos.

https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/1191/the-moon-illusion-why-does-the-moon-look-so-big-sometimes/
>
> Obviously I cannot comment myself, but I do recall back in the 80s, sitting
> on the Breakwater a resort on Tenerife, and in one direction the sun was
> setting and that was dim but you could see it reflected in the see, and in
> the other was this apparently huge mooned rising. My thought then as now
> were that its an optical illusion or some artefact due to the low angle
> through more of the atmosphere at that angle.

You brain finds it convenient to make things on the horizon look bigger
than things that are high in the sky. Perhaps because humans have never
experienced predation by huge raptors (unlike smaller creatures).

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:

> A fiend of mine was very excited yesterday evening when he was driving home.
> He said the moon was three times its usual size and reddy yellow colour.
>

The moon does appear much larger when it's near the horizon, but it's a
illusion. There is a small variation as its distance varies throughout each
month, and also over the course of about 200 days (and no doubt other longer
cycles too) because its orbit is elliptical, if this occurs when the moon is
full, it's called a supermoon.

Brian Gaff (Sofa) <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote

> A fiend of mine was very excited yesterday evening when he was driving
> home.

> He said the moon was three times its usual size and reddy yellow colour.

Tell him to give up on the wacky weed before he ends up as blind as you.

> Obviously I cannot comment myself, but I do recall back in the 80s,
> sitting
> on the Breakwater a resort on Tenerife, and in one direction the sun was
> setting and that was dim but you could see it reflected in the see, and
> in
> the other was this apparently huge mooned rising. My thought then as now
> were that its an optical illusion or some artefact due to the low angle
> through more of the atmosphere at that angle.

And then the wacky weed sent you completely blind...

In article <jc24h1F4nn6U1@mid.individual.net>,
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:

> > A fiend of mine was very excited yesterday evening when he was driving
> > home. He said the moon was three times its usual size and reddy yellow
> > colour.
> >

> The moon does appear much larger when it's near the horizon, but it's a
> illusion. There is a small variation as its distance varies throughout
> each month, and also over the course of about 200 days (and no doubt
> other longer cycles too) because its orbit is elliptical, if this
> occurs when the moon is full, it's called a supermoon.

I've only seen it once. The first time I went abroad on holiday - to the
Algarve. In the days when you were only allowed to take 50 quid out of the
country.

I first thought it was a hot air baloon or something. Quite spectacular.

--
*If you can't see my mirrors, I'm doing my hair*

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 17/04/2022 09:29, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 17/04/2022 09:05, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
>> A fiend of mine was very excited yesterday evening when he was driving
>> home.
>> He said the moon was three times its usual size and reddy yellow colour.
>
> It is a purely optical illusion.
>
> The moon when it is rising is fully one Earth radius further away from
> an observer and slightly vertically compressed for good measure.
>
> Chapter and verse here together with some nice photos.
>
> https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/1191/the-moon-illusion-why-does-the-moon-look-so-big-sometimes/
>
>>
>> Obviously I cannot comment myself, but I do recall back in the 80s,
>> sitting
>> on the Breakwater a resort on Tenerife, and in one direction the sun was
>> setting and that was dim but you could see it reflected in the see,
>> and in
>> the other was this apparently huge mooned rising. My thought then as now
>> were that its an optical illusion or some artefact due to the low angle
>> through more of the atmosphere at that angle.
>
> You brain finds it convenient to make things on the horizon look bigger
> than things that are high in the sky. Perhaps because humans have never
> experienced predation by huge raptors (unlike smaller creatures).
>
Never heard that theory before, very interesting!

On 17/04/2022 09:05, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> A fiend of mine was very excited yesterday evening when he was driving home.
> He said the moon was three times its usual size and reddy yellow colour.
>
> Obviously I cannot comment myself, but I do recall back in the 80s, sitting
> on the Breakwater a resort on Tenerife, and in one direction the sun was
> setting and that was dim but you could see it reflected in the see, and in
> the other was this apparently huge mooned rising. My thought then as now
> were that its an optical illusion or some artefact due to the low angle
> through more of the atmosphere at that angle.
>
> Brian
>
The Isla Craig can look like that coming oner the hill to the coast at
Trump Turnberry

In message <t3h6ed$irk$2@dont-email.me>, newshound
<sradcliffe544@gmail.com> writes
>On 17/04/2022 09:29, Martin Brown wrote:
>> On 17/04/2022 09:05, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
>>> A fiend of mine was very excited yesterday evening when he was
>>>driving home.
>>> He said the moon was three times its usual size and reddy yellow colour.
>> It is a purely optical illusion.
>> The moon when it is rising is fully one Earth radius further away
>>from an observer and slightly vertically compressed for good measure.
>> Chapter and verse here together with some nice photos.
>>
>>https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/1191/the-moon-illusion-why-does-the-m
>>oon-look-so-big-sometimes/
>>>
>>> Obviously I cannot comment myself, but I do recall back in the 80s,
>>>sitting
>>> on the Breakwater a resort on Tenerife, and in one direction the sun was
>>> setting and that was dim but you could see it reflected in the see,
>>>and in
>>> the other was this apparently huge mooned rising. My thought then as now
>>> were that its an optical illusion or some artefact due to the low angle
>>> through more of the atmosphere at that angle.
>> You brain finds it convenient to make things on the horizon look
>>bigger than things that are high in the sky. Perhaps because humans
>>have never experienced predation by huge raptors (unlike smaller
>>creatures).
>>
>Never heard that theory before, very interesting!

A book I read many times as a youth had a sequence of photos
demonstrating that the Moon size does not change as it rises above the
horizon.

Rather left me wondering if there is a difference between a camera lens
and the human eye.

--
Tim Lamb

On 17/04/2022 17:05, Tim Lamb wrote:

>
> Rather left me wondering if there is a difference between a camera lens
> and the human eye.
>

cameras don't have monkey brains

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 17/04/2022 17:05, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <t3h6ed$irk$2@dont-email.me>, newshound
> <sradcliffe544@gmail.com> writes
>> On 17/04/2022 09:29, Martin Brown wrote:
>>> On 17/04/2022 09:05, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
>>>> A fiend of mine was very excited yesterday evening when he was
>>>> driving  home.
>>>> He said the moon was three times its usual size and reddy yellow
>>>> colour.
>>>  It is a purely optical illusion.
>>>  The moon when it is rising is fully one Earth radius further away
>>> from  an observer and slightly vertically compressed for good measure.
>>>  Chapter and verse here together with some nice photos.
>>>
>>> https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/1191/the-moon-illusion-why-does-the-m
>>> oon-look-so-big-sometimes/
>>>>
>>>> Obviously I cannot comment myself, but I do recall back in the 80s,
>>>> sitting
>>>> on the Breakwater a resort on Tenerife, and in one direction the sun
>>>> was
>>>> setting and that was dim but you could see it reflected in the see,
>>>> and in
>>>> the other was this apparently huge mooned rising. My thought then as
>>>> now
>>>> were that its an optical illusion or some artefact due to the low angle
>>>> through more of the atmosphere at that angle.
>>>  You brain finds it convenient to make things on the horizon look
>>> bigger  than things that are high in the sky. Perhaps because humans
>>> have never  experienced predation by huge raptors (unlike smaller
>>> creatures).
>>>
>> Never heard that theory before, very interesting!
>
> A book I read many times as a youth had a sequence of photos
> demonstrating that the  Moon size does not change as it rises above the
> horizon.
>
> Rather left me wondering if there is a difference between a camera lens
> and the human eye.

It's supposed to be about how the brain determines the absolute size of
things when we don't know how far away they are. When the moon is near
the horizon, we assume it is at the horizon. When it's high in the sky,
we assume it's much nearer. (I think I've got that the right way round.)

--
Max Demian

On 17 Apr 2022 at 17:50:23 BST, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:

> On 17/04/2022 17:05, Tim Lamb wrote:
>> In message <t3h6ed$irk$2@dont-email.me>, newshound
>> <sradcliffe544@gmail.com> writes
>>> On 17/04/2022 09:29, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>> On 17/04/2022 09:05, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
>>>>> A fiend of mine was very excited yesterday evening when he was
>>>>> driving home.
>>>>> He said the moon was three times its usual size and reddy yellow
>>>>> colour.
>>>> It is a purely optical illusion.
>>>> The moon when it is rising is fully one Earth radius further away
>>>> from an observer and slightly vertically compressed for good measure.
>>>> Chapter and verse here together with some nice photos.
>>>>
>>>> https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/1191/the-moon-illusion-why-does-the-m
>>>> oon-look-so-big-sometimes/
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously I cannot comment myself, but I do recall back in the 80s,
>>>>> sitting
>>>>> on the Breakwater a resort on Tenerife, and in one direction the sun
>>>>> was
>>>>> setting and that was dim but you could see it reflected in the see,
>>>>> and in
>>>>> the other was this apparently huge mooned rising. My thought then as
>>>>> now
>>>>> were that its an optical illusion or some artefact due to the low angle
>>>>> through more of the atmosphere at that angle.
>>>> You brain finds it convenient to make things on the horizon look
>>>> bigger than things that are high in the sky. Perhaps because humans
>>>> have never experienced predation by huge raptors (unlike smaller
>>>> creatures).
>>>>
>>> Never heard that theory before, very interesting!
>>
>> A book I read many times as a youth had a sequence of photos
>> demonstrating that the Moon size does not change as it rises above the
>> horizon.
>>
>> Rather left me wondering if there is a difference between a camera lens
>> and the human eye.
>
> It's supposed to be about how the brain determines the absolute size of
> things when we don't know how far away they are. When the moon is near
> the horizon, we assume it is at the horizon. When it's high in the sky,
> we assume it's much nearer. (I think I've got that the right way round.)

I think our mental perception of the sky above is not as a hemisphere, but
rather a flattened one.

--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in someone else's pocket.

On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 23:58:37 +1000, newshound <sradcliffe544@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On 17/04/2022 09:29, Martin Brown wrote:
>> On 17/04/2022 09:05, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
>>> A fiend of mine was very excited yesterday evening when he was driving
>>> home.
>>> He said the moon was three times its usual size and reddy yellow
>>> colour.
>> It is a purely optical illusion.
>> The moon when it is rising is fully one Earth radius further away from
>> an observer and slightly vertically compressed for good measure.
>> Chapter and verse here together with some nice photos.
>>
>> https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/1191/the-moon-illusion-why-does-the-moon-look-so-big-sometimes/
>>>
>>> Obviously I cannot comment myself, but I do recall back in the 80s,
>>> sitting
>>> on the Breakwater a resort on Tenerife, and in one direction the sun
>>> was
>>> setting and that was dim but you could see it reflected in the see,
>>> and in
>>> the other was this apparently huge mooned rising. My thought then as
>>> now
>>> were that its an optical illusion or some artefact due to the low angle
>>> through more of the atmosphere at that angle.
>> You brain finds it convenient to make things on the horizon look
>> bigger than things that are high in the sky. Perhaps because humans
>> have never experienced predation by huge raptors (unlike smaller
>> creatures).
>>
> Never heard that theory before, very interesting!

More likely to be because you have something to compare it with when low
on the horizon imo.

On 17/04/2022 20:53, Rod Speed wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 23:58:37 +1000, newshound <sradcliffe544@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 17/04/2022 09:29, Martin Brown wrote:
>>> On 17/04/2022 09:05, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
>>>> A fiend of mine was very excited yesterday evening when he was
>>>> driving home.
>>>> He said the moon was three times its usual size and reddy yellow
>>>> colour.
>>>  It is a purely optical illusion.
>>>  The moon when it is rising is fully one Earth radius further away
>>> from an observer and slightly vertically compressed for good measure.
>>>  Chapter and verse here together with some nice photos.
>>>  https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/1191/the-moon-illusion-why-does-the-moon-look-so-big-sometimes/
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Obviously I cannot comment myself, but I do recall back in the 80s,
>>>> sitting
>>>> on the Breakwater a resort on Tenerife, and in one direction the sun
>>>> was
>>>> setting and that was dim but you could see it reflected in the see,
>>>> and in
>>>> the other was this apparently huge mooned rising. My thought then as
>>>> now
>>>> were that its an optical illusion or some artefact due to the low angle
>>>> through more of the atmosphere at that angle.
>>>  You brain finds it convenient to make things on the horizon look
>>> bigger than things that are high in the sky. Perhaps because humans
>>> have never experienced predation by huge raptors (unlike smaller
>>> creatures).
>>>
>> Never heard that theory before, very interesting!
>
> More likely to be because you have something to compare it with when low
> on the horizon imo.

But given that the brain has, in principle, the hardware to calculate
the angle subtended, how does comparison come into it? I'd be much more
inclined to go with Martin's argument that the eye "zooms in" on objects
on the horizon because they are much more likely to be threats.

On 17/04/2022 09:05, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> A fiend of mine was very excited yesterday evening when he was driving home.
> He said the moon was three times its usual size and reddy yellow colour.
>
> Obviously I cannot comment myself, but I do recall back in the 80s, sitting
> on the Breakwater a resort on Tenerife, and in one direction the sun was
> setting and that was dim but you could see it reflected in the see, and in
> the other was this apparently huge mooned rising. My thought then as now
> were that its an optical illusion or some artefact due to the low angle
> through more of the atmosphere at that angle.
>
> Brian
>
IIRC - Tell your pal to watch the phenomena through a smoked piece of glass.

PA

newshound <sradcliffe544@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> newshound <sradcliffe544@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Martin Brown wrote
>>>> Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote

>>>>> A fiend of mine was very excited yesterday evening when he was
>>>>> driving home.
>>>>> He said the moon was three times its usual size and reddy yellow
>>>>> colour.
>>>> It is a purely optical illusion.
>>>> The moon when it is rising is fully one Earth radius further away
>>>> from an observer and slightly vertically compressed for good measure.
>>>> Chapter and verse here together with some nice photos.
>>>> https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/1191/the-moon-illusion-why-does-the-moon-look-so-big-sometimes/
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously I cannot comment myself, but I do recall back in the 80s,
>>>>> sitting
>>>>> on the Breakwater a resort on Tenerife, and in one direction the sun
>>>>> was
>>>>> setting and that was dim but you could see it reflected in the see,
>>>>> and in
>>>>> the other was this apparently huge mooned rising. My thought then as
>>>>> now
>>>>> were that its an optical illusion or some artefact due to the low
>>>>> angle
>>>>> through more of the atmosphere at that angle.
>>>> You brain finds it convenient to make things on the horizon look
>>>> bigger than things that are high in the sky. Perhaps because humans
>>>> have never experienced predation by huge raptors (unlike smaller
>>>> creatures).
>>>>
>>> Never heard that theory before, very interesting!
>> More likely to be because you have something to compare it with when
>> low on the horizon imo.

> But given that the brain has, in principle, the hardware to calculate
> the angle subtended,

In practice I can't think of any situation where the brain actually does
that.

> how does comparison come into it?

It's what the brain always uses when determining the size of things.

> I'd be much more inclined to go with Martin's argument that the eye
> "zooms in" on objects on the horizon because they are much more likely
> to be threats.

I don't buy that because stuff that far away is never a threat unless
its a tsunami and we didnt evolve where tsunamis happen.

Hmm, well I don't actually buy that, since at the time I remember trying how
much I need to reach out to cover it with my thumb, and its less far than
when it is full and high up.
I am willing to agree it may be some kind of atmospheric lensing effect,
but if its the brain I cannot square the old perspective test.
Unfortunately as I say, being blind now I cannot really run any tests on it
and its kind of the last thing you are thinking off when on your holidays.
Brian

--

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briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"newshound" <sradcliffe544@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:t3h6ed$irk$2@dont-email.me...
> On 17/04/2022 09:29, Martin Brown wrote:
>> On 17/04/2022 09:05, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
>>> A fiend of mine was very excited yesterday evening when he was driving
>>> home.
>>> He said the moon was three times its usual size and reddy yellow colour.
>>
>> It is a purely optical illusion.
>>
>> The moon when it is rising is fully one Earth radius further away from an
>> observer and slightly vertically compressed for good measure.
>>
>> Chapter and verse here together with some nice photos.
>>
>> https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/1191/the-moon-illusion-why-does-the-moon-look-so-big-sometimes/
>>>
>>> Obviously I cannot comment myself, but I do recall back in the 80s,
>>> sitting
>>> on the Breakwater a resort on Tenerife, and in one direction the sun was
>>> setting and that was dim but you could see it reflected in the see, and
>>> in
>>> the other was this apparently huge mooned rising. My thought then as now
>>> were that its an optical illusion or some artefact due to the low angle
>>> through more of the atmosphere at that angle.
>>
>> You brain finds it convenient to make things on the horizon look bigger
>> than things that are high in the sky. Perhaps because humans have never
>> experienced predation by huge raptors (unlike smaller creatures).
>>
> Never heard that theory before, very interesting!

Well assuming no zoom there should not be a lot of difference, but then if
we are talking what effect the brain uses, then it could be a bit like the
software zoom some cameras use.It does not seem or did not seem, when I was
able to see, that the sun and the planets in the same position had the
effect. But of course you are not supposed to look directly at the sun,I'd
ban the Sun as a health and safety risk, so its a bit hard to tell.

Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Tim Lamb" <tim@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:owDxcnGSrDXiFwcH@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk...
> In message <t3h6ed$irk$2@dont-email.me>, newshound
> <sradcliffe544@gmail.com> writes
>>On 17/04/2022 09:29, Martin Brown wrote:
>>> On 17/04/2022 09:05, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
>>>> A fiend of mine was very excited yesterday evening when he was driving
>>>> home.
>>>> He said the moon was three times its usual size and reddy yellow
>>>> colour.
>>> It is a purely optical illusion.
>>> The moon when it is rising is fully one Earth radius further away from
>>> an observer and slightly vertically compressed for good measure.
>>> Chapter and verse here together with some nice photos.
>>> https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/1191/the-moon-illusion-why-does-the-m
>>>oon-look-so-big-sometimes/
>>>>
>>>> Obviously I cannot comment myself, but I do recall back in the 80s,
>>>> sitting
>>>> on the Breakwater a resort on Tenerife, and in one direction the sun
>>>> was
>>>> setting and that was dim but you could see it reflected in the see, and
>>>> in
>>>> the other was this apparently huge mooned rising. My thought then as
>>>> now
>>>> were that its an optical illusion or some artefact due to the low angle
>>>> through more of the atmosphere at that angle.
>>> You brain finds it convenient to make things on the horizon look bigger
>>> than things that are high in the sky. Perhaps because humans have never
>>> experienced predation by huge raptors (unlike smaller creatures).
>>>
>>Never heard that theory before, very interesting!
>
> A book I read many times as a youth had a sequence of photos demonstrating
> that the Moon size does not change as it rises above the horizon.
>
> Rather left me wondering if there is a difference between a camera lens
> and the human eye.
>
> --
> Tim Lamb

No its the other way around to work as observed, surely. The difference
seems to be the proximity to something known though. This can of course
change if you happen to be on top of a hill, since the horizon is further
away.
I'm still not convinced by the pure illusion theory, and feel there may be
some kind of process in the mix somewhere.
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Max Demian" <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:t3hggd$1fkn$1@gioia.aioe.org...
> On 17/04/2022 17:05, Tim Lamb wrote:
>> In message <t3h6ed$irk$2@dont-email.me>, newshound
>> <sradcliffe544@gmail.com> writes
>>> On 17/04/2022 09:29, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>> On 17/04/2022 09:05, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
>>>>> A fiend of mine was very excited yesterday evening when he was driving
>>>>> home.
>>>>> He said the moon was three times its usual size and reddy yellow
>>>>> colour.
>>>> It is a purely optical illusion.
>>>> The moon when it is rising is fully one Earth radius further away from
>>>> an observer and slightly vertically compressed for good measure.
>>>> Chapter and verse here together with some nice photos.
>>>>
>>>> https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/1191/the-moon-illusion-why-does-the-m
>>>> oon-look-so-big-sometimes/
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously I cannot comment myself, but I do recall back in the 80s,
>>>>> sitting
>>>>> on the Breakwater a resort on Tenerife, and in one direction the sun
>>>>> was
>>>>> setting and that was dim but you could see it reflected in the see,
>>>>> and in
>>>>> the other was this apparently huge mooned rising. My thought then as
>>>>> now
>>>>> were that its an optical illusion or some artefact due to the low
>>>>> angle
>>>>> through more of the atmosphere at that angle.
>>>> You brain finds it convenient to make things on the horizon look bigger
>>>> than things that are high in the sky. Perhaps because humans have never
>>>> experienced predation by huge raptors (unlike smaller creatures).
>>>>
>>> Never heard that theory before, very interesting!
>>
>> A book I read many times as a youth had a sequence of photos
>> demonstrating that the Moon size does not change as it rises above the
>> horizon.
>>
>> Rather left me wondering if there is a difference between a camera lens
>> and the human eye.
>
> It's supposed to be about how the brain determines the absolute size of
> things when we don't know how far away they are. When the moon is near the
> horizon, we assume it is at the horizon. When it's high in the sky, we
> assume it's much nearer. (I think I've got that the right way round.)
>
> --
> Max Demian

In article <t3j0ot$9pp$1@dont-email.me>,
Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> No its the other way around to work as observed, surely. The difference
> seems to be the proximity to something known though. This can of course
> change if you happen to be on top of a hill, since the horizon is further
> away.
> I'm still not convinced by the pure illusion theory, and feel there may be
> some kind of process in the mix somewhere.

When I saw it, was in town. Appeared above the end of the street, so had
buildings to get a reference from.

It's a long time ago, but guess it looked about 4 times the size of
normal. And of course red rather than white/yellow.

--
*Your kid may be an honours student, but you're still an idiot.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 18/04/2022 01:20, Rod Speed wrote:
> newshound <sradcliffe544@gmail.com> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> newshound <sradcliffe544@gmail.com>  wrote
>>>> Martin Brown wrote
>>>>> Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote
>
>>>>>> A fiend of mine was very excited yesterday evening when he was
>>>>>> driving home.
>>>>>> He said the moon was three times its usual size and reddy yellow
>>>>>> colour.
>>>>>  It is a purely optical illusion.
>>>>>  The moon when it is rising is fully one Earth radius further away
>>>>> from an observer and slightly vertically compressed for good measure.
>>>>>  Chapter and verse here together with some nice photos.
>>>>>  https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/1191/the-moon-illusion-why-does-the-moon-look-so-big-sometimes/
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Obviously I cannot comment myself, but I do recall back in the
>>>>>> 80s, sitting
>>>>>> on the Breakwater a resort on Tenerife, and in one direction the
>>>>>> sun was
>>>>>> setting and that was dim but you could see it reflected in the
>>>>>> see, and in
>>>>>> the other was this apparently huge mooned rising. My thought then
>>>>>> as now
>>>>>> were that its an optical illusion or some artefact due to the low
>>>>>> angle
>>>>>> through more of the atmosphere at that angle.
>>>>>  You brain finds it convenient to make things on the horizon look
>>>>> bigger than things that are high in the sky. Perhaps because humans
>>>>> have never experienced predation by huge raptors (unlike smaller
>>>>> creatures).
>>>>>
>>>> Never heard that theory before, very interesting!
>>>  More likely to be because you have something to compare it with when
>>> low on the horizon imo.
>
>> But given that the brain has, in principle, the hardware to calculate
>> the angle subtended,
>
> In practice I can't think of any situation where the brain actually does
> that.

That's exactly what the brain does. The distance between excited
receptors is a proxy.

>
>> how does comparison come into it?
>
> It's what the brain always uses when determining the size of things.

No, the brain either does a calculation for range if it thinks it can
assume the size, or a calculation for size if it can estimate range.
>
>> I'd be much more inclined to go with Martin's argument that the eye
>> "zooms in" on objects on the horizon because they are much more likely
>> to be threats.
>
> I don't buy that because stuff that far away is never a threat unless
> its a tsunami and we didnt evolve where tsunamis happen.

Balls. If you are in a dip in the ground, your horizon may only be fifty
metres away. In tiger or brown bear country, be very very afraid.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> When I saw it, was in town. Appeared above the end of the street, so had
> buildings to get a reference from.

But your brain was probably convinced it wasn't far beyond the end of the
street, rather that a quarter of a million miles away

On 18/04/2022 07:34, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> No its the other way around to work as observed, surely. The difference
> seems to be the proximity to something known though. This can of course
> change if you happen to be on top of a hill, since the horizon is further
> away.
> I'm still not convinced by the pure illusion theory, and feel there may be
> some kind of process in the mix somewhere.
> Brian
>

The other way around? Re-read my post. I've not made any comment,
relative or absolute, on observations reported - just suggested that
your pal might acquire more experimental data.

Unless you mean smoking your pal and telling the glass to look through
him !!!

PA

In article <jc4v7tFl7nuU1@mid.individual.net>,
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> > When I saw it, was in town. Appeared above the end of the street, so had
> > buildings to get a reference from.

> But your brain was probably convinced it wasn't far beyond the end of the
> street, rather that a quarter of a million miles away

Quite. I'd guess we'd not have been enjoying an evening stroll if the moon
had shifted that much closer. ;-)

--
*The longest recorded flightof a chicken is thirteen seconds *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 20:46:48 +1000, Dave Plowman (News)
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <t3j0ot$9pp$1@dont-email.me>,
> Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> No its the other way around to work as observed, surely. The difference
>> seems to be the proximity to something known though. This can of course
>> change if you happen to be on top of a hill, since the horizon is
>> further
>> away.
>> I'm still not convinced by the pure illusion theory, and feel there
>> may be
>> some kind of process in the mix somewhere.
>
> When I saw it, was in town. Appeared above the end of the street, so had
> buildings to get a reference from.

Me too but mine was behind my neighbour's house on
the opposite side of the street, just above his roof line.

> It's a long time ago,

Mine was just last saturday morning, waiting in the
dark for my mate to pick me up, with me standing
on the side of the road for a minute or two.

> but guess it looked about 4 times the size of normal.

Nothing like that big in my case, but still eye catching.

> And of course red rather than white/yellow.

Yep. Known effect, the path for the light is thru much more air.

newshound <sradcliffe544@gmail.com> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> newshound <sradcliffe544@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> newshound <sradcliffe544@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Martin Brown wrote
>>>>>> Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote

>>>>>>> A fiend of mine was very excited yesterday evening when he was
>>>>>>> driving home.
>>>>>>> He said the moon was three times its usual size and reddy yellow
>>>>>>> colour.
>>>>>> It is a purely optical illusion.
>>>>>> The moon when it is rising is fully one Earth radius further away
>>>>>> from an observer and slightly vertically compressed for good
>>>>>> measure.
>>>>>> Chapter and verse here together with some nice photos.
>>>>>> https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/news/1191/the-moon-illusion-why-does-the-moon-look-so-big-sometimes/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Obviously I cannot comment myself, but I do recall back in the
>>>>>>> 80s, sitting
>>>>>>> on the Breakwater a resort on Tenerife, and in one direction the
>>>>>>> sun was
>>>>>>> setting and that was dim but you could see it reflected in the
>>>>>>> see, and in
>>>>>>> the other was this apparently huge mooned rising. My thought then
>>>>>>> as now
>>>>>>> were that its an optical illusion or some artefact due to the low
>>>>>>> angle
>>>>>>> through more of the atmosphere at that angle.
>>>>>> You brain finds it convenient to make things on the horizon look
>>>>>> bigger than things that are high in the sky. Perhaps because humans
>>>>>> have never experienced predation by huge raptors (unlike smaller
>>>>>> creatures).
>>>>>>
>>>>> Never heard that theory before, very interesting!

>>>> More likely to be because you have something to compare it with when
>>>> low on the horizon imo.
>>
>>> But given that the brain has, in principle, the hardware to calculate
>>> the angle subtended,

>> In practice I can't think of any situation where the brain actually
>> does that.

> That's exactly what the brain does.

In what situation ?

> The distance between excited receptors is a proxy.

That isn't angle.

>>> how does comparison come into it?

>> It's what the brain always uses when determining the size of things.

> No, the brain either does a calculation for range if it thinks it can
> assume the size, or a calculation for size if it can estimate range.

But doesn't use angle for that.

>>> I'd be much more inclined to go with Martin's argument that the eye
>>> "zooms in" on objects on the horizon because they are much more likely
>>> to be threats.

>> I don't buy that because stuff that far away is never a threat unless
>> its a tsunami and we didnt evolve where tsunamis happen.

> Balls.

We'll see...

> If you are in a dip in the ground, your horizon may only be fifty metres
> away. In tiger or brown bear country, be very very afraid.

But no evidence that the brain exaggerates the sise of the animal in that
situaton.

And we didn't evolve where tigers and brown bears are anyway,