I was hoping to have my electric meter turned off at reasonable cost
while I was away from my flat for 6 months.
Previously I've left my electric towel rail on and a small electric
heater but the new higher standing charge is way too daunting
considering the low usage in an empty flat.

First I saw this link:

https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect

Which showed a possible option as Item 4:
---------------------------------------------------
4. Disconnect an electricity meter

Typically customers need this when:

Moving out of a property and they don't’ want to be charged for an
electricity bill
Renovating a property and want their electricity meter removed
temporarily or permanently

The company you pay your electricity bills legally own the meter so
only they can work on the electricity meter and remove it for you.
Find out your electricity supplier and your MPAN
----------------------------------
I mentioned this on the MSE forum and was given this link as being
relevant
https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect/time-and-cost

I remember reading a few years a go that the cost for this procedure
was about 250 quid but this link page shows charges running into
thousands, though I'm not sure the context covers my particular
requirement.

"No standing charge tariffs" seem to have disappeared from the
possible options too.
--

Mike

Mike Halmarack <mikehalmarack@gmail.com> wrote:
> I was hoping to have my electric meter turned off at reasonable cost
> while I was away from my flat for 6 months.
> Previously I've left my electric towel rail on and a small electric
> heater but the new higher standing charge is way too daunting
> considering the low usage in an empty flat.

It might be worth investigating a 'logical disconnection', rather than a
'physical disconnection' (where they cut the cable and remove the meter, eg
for building works). Smart meters may be able to do a disconnection in
software (there's a 100A contactor inside to cut the power).

That's point 5 rather than point 4 on your reasons for disconnection list,
also:
https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/-/media/files/connections-guides/2018---september---mpan-guide.ashx

The route for a logical disconnection is via your supplier (ie the billing
company) not via the DNO. Point 5 says they send the DNO a DO132A message
to cancel the MPAN (ie cause the billing identity to cease to exist, a bit
like cancelling your BT line rental).

Theo

On 18 Apr 2022 at 12:22:28 BST, "Mike Halmarack" <mikehalmarack@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I was hoping to have my electric meter turned off at reasonable cost
> while I was away from my flat for 6 months.
> Previously I've left my electric towel rail on and a small electric
> heater but the new higher standing charge is way too daunting
> considering the low usage in an empty flat.
>
> First I saw this link:
>
> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect
>
> Which showed a possible option as Item 4:
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 4. Disconnect an electricity meter
>
> Typically customers need this when:
>
> Moving out of a property and they don't’ want to be charged for an
> electricity bill
> Renovating a property and want their electricity meter removed
> temporarily or permanently
>
> The company you pay your electricity bills legally own the meter so
> only they can work on the electricity meter and remove it for you.
> Find out your electricity supplier and your MPAN
> ----------------------------------
> I mentioned this on the MSE forum and was given this link as being
> relevant
> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect/time-and-cost
>
> I remember reading a few years a go that the cost for this procedure
> was about 250 quid but this link page shows charges running into
> thousands, though I'm not sure the context covers my particular
> requirement.
>
> "No standing charge tariffs" seem to have disappeared from the
> possible options too.

Seems you're not alone:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/apr/14/ive-been-trying-for-months-to-get-scottish-power-to-disconnect-my-gas

Might give you a better idea of the chain of responsibility and who to contact
etc.
--
Cheers, Rob

On 18/04/2022 12:22, Mike Halmarack wrote:
> I was hoping to have my electric meter turned off at reasonable cost
> while I was away from my flat for 6 months.
> Previously I've left my electric towel rail on and a small electric
> heater but the new higher standing charge is way too daunting
> considering the low usage in an empty flat.
>
> First I saw this link:
>
> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect
>
> Which showed a possible option as Item 4:
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 4. Disconnect an electricity meter
>
> Typically customers need this when:
>
> Moving out of a property and they don't’ want to be charged for an
> electricity bill
> Renovating a property and want their electricity meter removed
> temporarily or permanently
>
> The company you pay your electricity bills legally own the meter so
> only they can work on the electricity meter and remove it for you.
> Find out your electricity supplier and your MPAN
> ----------------------------------
> I mentioned this on the MSE forum and was given this link as being
> relevant
> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect/time-and-cost
>
> I remember reading a few years a go that the cost for this procedure
> was about 250 quid but this link page shows charges running into
> thousands, though I'm not sure the context covers my particular
> requirement.
>
> "No standing charge tariffs" seem to have disappeared from the
> possible options too.

I don't u/s your Subject. The only energy saved by removing the meter
(over and above turning off the supply at the Consumer Unit) is the
energy the meter itself consumes. Even with a Smart Meter that's tiny
- about a kWh a year.

And don't confuse de-energisation and disconnection. If you are really
just interested in energy saving all you need is the former - which can
be done by just taking the main fuse out of the incomer.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:10:34 +0100, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:

>On 18/04/2022 12:22, Mike Halmarack wrote:
>> I was hoping to have my electric meter turned off at reasonable cost
>> while I was away from my flat for 6 months.
>> Previously I've left my electric towel rail on and a small electric
>> heater but the new higher standing charge is way too daunting
>> considering the low usage in an empty flat.
>>
>> First I saw this link:
>>
>> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect
>>
>> Which showed a possible option as Item 4:
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> 4. Disconnect an electricity meter
>>
>> Typically customers need this when:
>>
>> Moving out of a property and they don't’ want to be charged for an
>> electricity bill
>> Renovating a property and want their electricity meter removed
>> temporarily or permanently
>>
>> The company you pay your electricity bills legally own the meter so
>> only they can work on the electricity meter and remove it for you.
>> Find out your electricity supplier and your MPAN
>> ----------------------------------
>> I mentioned this on the MSE forum and was given this link as being
>> relevant
>> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect/time-and-cost
>>
>> I remember reading a few years a go that the cost for this procedure
>> was about 250 quid but this link page shows charges running into
>> thousands, though I'm not sure the context covers my particular
>> requirement.
>>
>> "No standing charge tariffs" seem to have disappeared from the
>> possible options too.
>
>I don't u/s your Subject. The only energy saved by removing the meter
>(over and above turning off the supply at the Consumer Unit) is the
>energy the meter itself consumes. Even with a Smart Meter that's tiny
>- about a kWh a year.
>
>And don't confuse de-energisation and disconnection. If you are really
>just interested in energy saving all you need is the former - which can
>be done by just taking the main fuse out of the incomer.

My thoughts were on similar lines - just throw the mains isolator
switch, except that when I went to look at mine, there wasn't one!
Must have been taken out when the smart meter was fitted. But I see
upthread Theo says there's a 100A isolator inside the smart meter
which I assume can do the same job if MH can get it to work. Failing
that, just throw the isolator(s) in the CU? Or even just go round the
house unplugging or switching off everything.

--
Chris

On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:10:34 +0100, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:

>On 18/04/2022 12:22, Mike Halmarack wrote:
>> I was hoping to have my electric meter turned off at reasonable cost
>> while I was away from my flat for 6 months.
>> Previously I've left my electric towel rail on and a small electric
>> heater but the new higher standing charge is way too daunting
>> considering the low usage in an empty flat.
>>
>> First I saw this link:
>>
>> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect
>>
>> Which showed a possible option as Item 4:
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> 4. Disconnect an electricity meter
>>
>> Typically customers need this when:
>>
>> Moving out of a property and they don't’ want to be charged for an
>> electricity bill
>> Renovating a property and want their electricity meter removed
>> temporarily or permanently
>>
>> The company you pay your electricity bills legally own the meter so
>> only they can work on the electricity meter and remove it for you.
>> Find out your electricity supplier and your MPAN
>> ----------------------------------
>> I mentioned this on the MSE forum and was given this link as being
>> relevant
>> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect/time-and-cost
>>
>> I remember reading a few years a go that the cost for this procedure
>> was about 250 quid but this link page shows charges running into
>> thousands, though I'm not sure the context covers my particular
>> requirement.
>>
>> "No standing charge tariffs" seem to have disappeared from the
>> possible options too.
>
>I don't u/s your Subject. The only energy saved by removing the meter
>(over and above turning off the supply at the Consumer Unit) is the
>energy the meter itself consumes. Even with a Smart Meter that's tiny
>- about a kWh a year.
>
>And don't confuse de-energisation and disconnection. If you are really
>just interested in energy saving all you need is the former - which can
>be done by just taking the main fuse out of the incomer.

What I'm seeking is to have the electric supply to my flat officially
stopped for six months so as to have the standing charge portion of
the bill removed along with the non-existent usage, during that
period.
--

Mike

On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:28:30 +0100, Chris Hogg <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:10:34 +0100, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>>On 18/04/2022 12:22, Mike Halmarack wrote:
>>> I was hoping to have my electric meter turned off at reasonable cost
>>> while I was away from my flat for 6 months.
>>> Previously I've left my electric towel rail on and a small electric
>>> heater but the new higher standing charge is way too daunting
>>> considering the low usage in an empty flat.
>>>
>>> First I saw this link:
>>>
>>> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect
>>>
>>> Which showed a possible option as Item 4:
>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>> 4. Disconnect an electricity meter
>>>
>>> Typically customers need this when:
>>>
>>> Moving out of a property and they don't’ want to be charged for an
>>> electricity bill
>>> Renovating a property and want their electricity meter removed
>>> temporarily or permanently
>>>
>>> The company you pay your electricity bills legally own the meter so
>>> only they can work on the electricity meter and remove it for you.
>>> Find out your electricity supplier and your MPAN
>>> ----------------------------------
>>> I mentioned this on the MSE forum and was given this link as being
>>> relevant
>>> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect/time-and-cost
>>>
>>> I remember reading a few years a go that the cost for this procedure
>>> was about 250 quid but this link page shows charges running into
>>> thousands, though I'm not sure the context covers my particular
>>> requirement.
>>>
>>> "No standing charge tariffs" seem to have disappeared from the
>>> possible options too.
>>
>>I don't u/s your Subject. The only energy saved by removing the meter
>>(over and above turning off the supply at the Consumer Unit) is the
>>energy the meter itself consumes. Even with a Smart Meter that's tiny
>>- about a kWh a year.
>>
>>And don't confuse de-energisation and disconnection. If you are really
>>just interested in energy saving all you need is the former - which can
>>be done by just taking the main fuse out of the incomer.
>
>My thoughts were on similar lines - just throw the mains isolator
>switch, except that when I went to look at mine, there wasn't one!
>Must have been taken out when the smart meter was fitted. But I see
>upthread Theo says there's a 100A isolator inside the smart meter
>which I assume can do the same job if MH can get it to work. Failing
>that, just throw the isolator(s) in the CU? Or even just go round the
>house unplugging or switching off everything.

It would be great if this prevented the standing charge from being
applied.
--

Mike

On 18 Apr 2022 12:53:38 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

>Mike Halmarack <mikehalmarack@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I was hoping to have my electric meter turned off at reasonable cost
>> while I was away from my flat for 6 months.
>> Previously I've left my electric towel rail on and a small electric
>> heater but the new higher standing charge is way too daunting
>> considering the low usage in an empty flat.
>
>It might be worth investigating a 'logical disconnection', rather than a
>'physical disconnection' (where they cut the cable and remove the meter, eg
>for building works). Smart meters may be able to do a disconnection in
>software (there's a 100A contactor inside to cut the power).
>
>That's point 5 rather than point 4 on your reasons for disconnection list,
>also:
>https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/-/media/files/connections-guides/2018---september---mpan-guide.ashx
>
>The route for a logical disconnection is via your supplier (ie the billing
>company) not via the DNO. Point 5 says they send the DNO a DO132A message
>to cancel the MPAN (ie cause the billing identity to cease to exist, a bit
>like cancelling your BT line rental).
>
>Theo
thanks. I'll see if I can approach the problem that way.
--

Mike

Chris Hogg wrote:

> My thoughts were on similar lines - just throw the mains isolator
> switch, except that when I went to look at mine, there wasn't one!
> Must have been taken out when the smart meter was fitted. But I see
> upthread Theo says there's a 100A isolator inside the smart meter
> which I assume can do the same job if MH can get it to work.

I think that's there to cut people off for non-payment

> Failing
> that, just throw the isolator(s) in the CU? Or even just go round the
> house unplugging or switching off everything.

If the O/P persuades the supplier to disconnect, will there be a cost to
reconnect in six months time? will that be less than the standing charge about £90?

On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 12:12:59 -0000 (UTC), RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com>
wrote:

>On 18 Apr 2022 at 12:22:28 BST, "Mike Halmarack" <mikehalmarack@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>> I was hoping to have my electric meter turned off at reasonable cost
>> while I was away from my flat for 6 months.
>> Previously I've left my electric towel rail on and a small electric
>> heater but the new higher standing charge is way too daunting
>> considering the low usage in an empty flat.
>>
>> First I saw this link:
>>
>> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect
>>
>> Which showed a possible option as Item 4:
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> 4. Disconnect an electricity meter
>>
>> Typically customers need this when:
>>
>> Moving out of a property and they don't? want to be charged for an
>> electricity bill
>> Renovating a property and want their electricity meter removed
>> temporarily or permanently
>>
>> The company you pay your electricity bills legally own the meter so
>> only they can work on the electricity meter and remove it for you.
>> Find out your electricity supplier and your MPAN
>> ----------------------------------
>> I mentioned this on the MSE forum and was given this link as being
>> relevant
>> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect/time-and-cost
>>
>> I remember reading a few years a go that the cost for this procedure
>> was about 250 quid but this link page shows charges running into
>> thousands, though I'm not sure the context covers my particular
>> requirement.
>>
>> "No standing charge tariffs" seem to have disappeared from the
>> possible options too.
>
>Seems you're not alone:
>
>https://www.theguardian.com/money/2022/apr/14/ive-been-trying-for-months-to-get-scottish-power-to-disconnect-my-gas
>
>Might give you a better idea of the chain of responsibility and who to contact
>etc.
Thanks. Those stories would embarrass the Mafia.
--

Mike

On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:38:27 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

>Chris Hogg wrote:
>
>
>> My thoughts were on similar lines - just throw the mains isolator
>> switch, except that when I went to look at mine, there wasn't one!
>> Must have been taken out when the smart meter was fitted. But I see
>> upthread Theo says there's a 100A isolator inside the smart meter
>> which I assume can do the same job if MH can get it to work.
>
>I think that's there to cut people off for non-payment
>
>> Failing
>> that, just throw the isolator(s) in the CU? Or even just go round the
>> house unplugging or switching off everything.
>
>If the O/P persuades the supplier to disconnect, will there be a cost to
>reconnect in six months time? will that be less than the standing charge about £90?

Now you come to mention it, I don't suppose British gas would make it
any less.
I thinks RJH came up with the apt phrase, "chain of responsibility".
--

Mike

On 18/04/2022 14:32, Mike Halmarack wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:28:30 +0100, Chris Hogg <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:10:34 +0100, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 18/04/2022 12:22, Mike Halmarack wrote:
>>>> I was hoping to have my electric meter turned off at reasonable cost
>>>> while I was away from my flat for 6 months.
>>>> Previously I've left my electric towel rail on and a small electric
>>>> heater but the new higher standing charge is way too daunting
>>>> considering the low usage in an empty flat.
>>>>
>>>> First I saw this link:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect
>>>>
>>>> Which showed a possible option as Item 4:
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>> 4. Disconnect an electricity meter
>>>>
>>>> Typically customers need this when:
>>>>
>>>> Moving out of a property and they don't’ want to be charged for an
>>>> electricity bill
>>>> Renovating a property and want their electricity meter removed
>>>> temporarily or permanently
>>>>
>>>> The company you pay your electricity bills legally own the meter so
>>>> only they can work on the electricity meter and remove it for you.
>>>> Find out your electricity supplier and your MPAN
>>>> ----------------------------------
>>>> I mentioned this on the MSE forum and was given this link as being
>>>> relevant
>>>> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect/time-and-cost
>>>>
>>>> I remember reading a few years a go that the cost for this procedure
>>>> was about 250 quid but this link page shows charges running into
>>>> thousands, though I'm not sure the context covers my particular
>>>> requirement.
>>>>
>>>> "No standing charge tariffs" seem to have disappeared from the
>>>> possible options too.
>>>
>>> I don't u/s your Subject. The only energy saved by removing the meter
>>> (over and above turning off the supply at the Consumer Unit) is the
>>> energy the meter itself consumes. Even with a Smart Meter that's tiny
>>> - about a kWh a year.
>>>
>>> And don't confuse de-energisation and disconnection. If you are really
>>> just interested in energy saving all you need is the former - which can
>>> be done by just taking the main fuse out of the incomer.
>>
>> My thoughts were on similar lines - just throw the mains isolator
>> switch, except that when I went to look at mine, there wasn't one!
>> Must have been taken out when the smart meter was fitted. But I see
>> upthread Theo says there's a 100A isolator inside the smart meter
>> which I assume can do the same job if MH can get it to work. Failing
>> that, just throw the isolator(s) in the CU? Or even just go round the
>> house unplugging or switching off everything.
>
> It would be great if this prevented the standing charge from being
> applied.

So less "Profit superSedes energy saving" and more "why do they make it
so hard for me to avoid the standing charge".

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 15:15:48 +0100, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:

>On 18/04/2022 14:32, Mike Halmarack wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:28:30 +0100, Chris Hogg <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:10:34 +0100, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 18/04/2022 12:22, Mike Halmarack wrote:
>>>>> I was hoping to have my electric meter turned off at reasonable cost
>>>>> while I was away from my flat for 6 months.
>>>>> Previously I've left my electric towel rail on and a small electric
>>>>> heater but the new higher standing charge is way too daunting
>>>>> considering the low usage in an empty flat.
>>>>>
>>>>> First I saw this link:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect
>>>>>
>>>>> Which showed a possible option as Item 4:
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>> 4. Disconnect an electricity meter
>>>>>
>>>>> Typically customers need this when:
>>>>>
>>>>> Moving out of a property and they don't’ want to be charged for an
>>>>> electricity bill
>>>>> Renovating a property and want their electricity meter removed
>>>>> temporarily or permanently
>>>>>
>>>>> The company you pay your electricity bills legally own the meter so
>>>>> only they can work on the electricity meter and remove it for you.
>>>>> Find out your electricity supplier and your MPAN
>>>>> ----------------------------------
>>>>> I mentioned this on the MSE forum and was given this link as being
>>>>> relevant
>>>>> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect/time-and-cost
>>>>>
>>>>> I remember reading a few years a go that the cost for this procedure
>>>>> was about 250 quid but this link page shows charges running into
>>>>> thousands, though I'm not sure the context covers my particular
>>>>> requirement.
>>>>>
>>>>> "No standing charge tariffs" seem to have disappeared from the
>>>>> possible options too.
>>>>
>>>> I don't u/s your Subject. The only energy saved by removing the meter
>>>> (over and above turning off the supply at the Consumer Unit) is the
>>>> energy the meter itself consumes. Even with a Smart Meter that's tiny
>>>> - about a kWh a year.
>>>>
>>>> And don't confuse de-energisation and disconnection. If you are really
>>>> just interested in energy saving all you need is the former - which can
>>>> be done by just taking the main fuse out of the incomer.
>>>
>>> My thoughts were on similar lines - just throw the mains isolator
>>> switch, except that when I went to look at mine, there wasn't one!
>>> Must have been taken out when the smart meter was fitted. But I see
>>> upthread Theo says there's a 100A isolator inside the smart meter
>>> which I assume can do the same job if MH can get it to work. Failing
>>> that, just throw the isolator(s) in the CU? Or even just go round the
>>> house unplugging or switching off everything.
>>
>> It would be great if this prevented the standing charge from being
>> applied.
>
>So less "Profit superSedes energy saving" and more "why do they make it
>so hard for me to avoid the standing charge".

If they made it easier and less expensive for me to have my meter
disconnected, my flat would be using even less energy than when having
a towel rail and a small heater running.
--

Mike

On 18/04/2022 12:22, Mike Halmarack wrote:
> I was hoping to have my electric meter turned off at reasonable cost
> while I was away from my flat for 6 months.

Spending your (UK taxpayer-funded) pension on someone else's GDP ?

> Previously I've left my electric towel rail on and a small electric
> heater but the new higher standing charge is way too daunting
> considering the low usage in an empty flat.

The standing charge is the same whether it is empty or not. It is
the unit charge that matters.

On 18/04/2022 15:20, Mike Halmarack wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 15:15:48 +0100, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>> On 18/04/2022 14:32, Mike Halmarack wrote:
>>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:28:30 +0100, Chris Hogg <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:10:34 +0100, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 18/04/2022 12:22, Mike Halmarack wrote:
>>>>>> I was hoping to have my electric meter turned off at reasonable cost
>>>>>> while I was away from my flat for 6 months.
>>>>>> Previously I've left my electric towel rail on and a small electric
>>>>>> heater but the new higher standing charge is way too daunting
>>>>>> considering the low usage in an empty flat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> First I saw this link:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Which showed a possible option as Item 4:
>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> 4. Disconnect an electricity meter
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Typically customers need this when:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Moving out of a property and they don't’ want to be charged for an
>>>>>> electricity bill
>>>>>> Renovating a property and want their electricity meter removed
>>>>>> temporarily or permanently
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The company you pay your electricity bills legally own the meter so
>>>>>> only they can work on the electricity meter and remove it for you.
>>>>>> Find out your electricity supplier and your MPAN
>>>>>> ----------------------------------
>>>>>> I mentioned this on the MSE forum and was given this link as being
>>>>>> relevant
>>>>>> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect/time-and-cost
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I remember reading a few years a go that the cost for this procedure
>>>>>> was about 250 quid but this link page shows charges running into
>>>>>> thousands, though I'm not sure the context covers my particular
>>>>>> requirement.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "No standing charge tariffs" seem to have disappeared from the
>>>>>> possible options too.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't u/s your Subject. The only energy saved by removing the meter
>>>>> (over and above turning off the supply at the Consumer Unit) is the
>>>>> energy the meter itself consumes. Even with a Smart Meter that's tiny
>>>>> - about a kWh a year.
>>>>>
>>>>> And don't confuse de-energisation and disconnection. If you are really
>>>>> just interested in energy saving all you need is the former - which can
>>>>> be done by just taking the main fuse out of the incomer.
>>>>
>>>> My thoughts were on similar lines - just throw the mains isolator
>>>> switch, except that when I went to look at mine, there wasn't one!
>>>> Must have been taken out when the smart meter was fitted. But I see
>>>> upthread Theo says there's a 100A isolator inside the smart meter
>>>> which I assume can do the same job if MH can get it to work. Failing
>>>> that, just throw the isolator(s) in the CU? Or even just go round the
>>>> house unplugging or switching off everything.
>>>
>>> It would be great if this prevented the standing charge from being
>>> applied.
>>
>> So less "Profit superSedes energy saving" and more "why do they make it
>> so hard for me to avoid the standing charge".
>
> If they made it easier and less expensive for me to have my meter
> disconnected, my flat would be using even less energy than when having
> a towel rail and a small heater running.

Why you need to leave them - or anything - on while you are away?

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 18/04/2022 14:32, Mike Halmarack wrote:

> It would be great if this prevented the standing charge from being
> applied.

Blimey, you are getting worse !.

If you have a meter, then you have a supply that you *can* use
at any time, and therefore you have to pay the standing charge.
The *only* way to avoid a standing charge is to cease being
a customer and have the meter removed - permanently.

For many years the energy suppliers had zero-standing charge
tariffs and simply charged dual rates where the first NNNN
units were at a higher rate than the rate for NNNN+1 units.

Ofgem effectively got rid of these when 'Smart meters' were
mandated and the standing charge was then intended to provide
the (never ending) money stream to pay for the 'free' smart
meters. Over a 30 year period the standing charges will pay
for the smart meter rollout many times over.

On 18/04/2022 15:31, Robin wrote:
> On 18/04/2022 15:20, Mike Halmarack wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 15:15:48 +0100, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 18/04/2022 14:32, Mike Halmarack wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:28:30 +0100, Chris Hogg <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:10:34 +0100, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 18/04/2022 12:22, Mike Halmarack wrote:
>>>>>>>     I was hoping to have my electric meter turned off at
>>>>>>> reasonable cost
>>>>>>> while I was away from my flat for 6 months.
>>>>>>> Previously I've left my electric towel rail on and a small electric
>>>>>>> heater but the new higher standing charge is way too daunting
>>>>>>> considering the low usage in an empty flat.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> First I saw this link:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which showed a possible option as Item 4:
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> 4. Disconnect an electricity meter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Typically customers need this when:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>        Moving out of a property and they don't’ want to be
>>>>>>> charged for an
>>>>>>> electricity bill
>>>>>>>        Renovating a property and want their electricity meter
>>>>>>> removed
>>>>>>> temporarily or permanently
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The company you pay your electricity bills legally own the meter so
>>>>>>> only they can work on the electricity meter and remove it for you.
>>>>>>> Find out your electricity supplier and your MPAN
>>>>>>> ----------------------------------
>>>>>>> I mentioned this on the MSE forum and was given this link as being
>>>>>>> relevant
>>>>>>> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect/time-and-cost
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I remember reading a few years a go that the cost for this procedure
>>>>>>> was about 250 quid but this link page shows charges  running into
>>>>>>> thousands, though I'm not sure the context covers my particular
>>>>>>> requirement.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "No standing charge tariffs" seem to have disappeared from the
>>>>>>> possible options too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't u/s your Subject.  The only energy saved by removing the
>>>>>> meter
>>>>>> (over and above turning off the supply at the Consumer Unit) is the
>>>>>> energy the meter itself consumes.  Even with a Smart Meter that's
>>>>>> tiny
>>>>>> - about a kWh a year.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And don't confuse de-energisation and disconnection. If you are
>>>>>> really
>>>>>> just interested in energy saving all you need is the former -
>>>>>> which can
>>>>>> be done by just taking the main fuse out of the incomer.
>>>>>
>>>>> My thoughts were on similar lines - just throw the mains isolator
>>>>> switch, except that when I went to look at mine, there wasn't one!
>>>>> Must have been taken out when the smart meter was fitted. But I see
>>>>> upthread Theo says there's a 100A isolator inside the smart meter
>>>>> which I assume can do the same job if MH can get it to work. Failing
>>>>> that, just throw the isolator(s) in the CU? Or even just go round the
>>>>> house unplugging or switching off everything.
>>>>
>>>> It would be great if this prevented the standing charge from being
>>>> applied.
>>>
>>> So less "Profit superSedes energy saving" and more "why do they make it
>>> so hard for me to avoid the standing charge".
>>
>> If they made it easier and less expensive for me to have my meter
>> disconnected, my flat would be using even less energy than when having
>> a towel rail and a small heater running.
>
> Why you need to leave them - or anything - on while you are away?
>

+1

On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 15:31:14 +0100, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:

>On 18/04/2022 15:20, Mike Halmarack wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 15:15:48 +0100, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 18/04/2022 14:32, Mike Halmarack wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:28:30 +0100, Chris Hogg <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:10:34 +0100, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 18/04/2022 12:22, Mike Halmarack wrote:
>>>>>>> I was hoping to have my electric meter turned off at reasonable cost
>>>>>>> while I was away from my flat for 6 months.
>>>>>>> Previously I've left my electric towel rail on and a small electric
>>>>>>> heater but the new higher standing charge is way too daunting
>>>>>>> considering the low usage in an empty flat.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> First I saw this link:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Which showed a possible option as Item 4:
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> 4. Disconnect an electricity meter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Typically customers need this when:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Moving out of a property and they don't’ want to be charged for an
>>>>>>> electricity bill
>>>>>>> Renovating a property and want their electricity meter removed
>>>>>>> temporarily or permanently
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The company you pay your electricity bills legally own the meter so
>>>>>>> only they can work on the electricity meter and remove it for you.
>>>>>>> Find out your electricity supplier and your MPAN
>>>>>>> ----------------------------------
>>>>>>> I mentioned this on the MSE forum and was given this link as being
>>>>>>> relevant
>>>>>>> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect/time-and-cost
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I remember reading a few years a go that the cost for this procedure
>>>>>>> was about 250 quid but this link page shows charges running into
>>>>>>> thousands, though I'm not sure the context covers my particular
>>>>>>> requirement.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "No standing charge tariffs" seem to have disappeared from the
>>>>>>> possible options too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't u/s your Subject. The only energy saved by removing the meter
>>>>>> (over and above turning off the supply at the Consumer Unit) is the
>>>>>> energy the meter itself consumes. Even with a Smart Meter that's tiny
>>>>>> - about a kWh a year.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And don't confuse de-energisation and disconnection. If you are really
>>>>>> just interested in energy saving all you need is the former - which can
>>>>>> be done by just taking the main fuse out of the incomer.
>>>>>
>>>>> My thoughts were on similar lines - just throw the mains isolator
>>>>> switch, except that when I went to look at mine, there wasn't one!
>>>>> Must have been taken out when the smart meter was fitted. But I see
>>>>> upthread Theo says there's a 100A isolator inside the smart meter
>>>>> which I assume can do the same job if MH can get it to work. Failing
>>>>> that, just throw the isolator(s) in the CU? Or even just go round the
>>>>> house unplugging or switching off everything.
>>>>
>>>> It would be great if this prevented the standing charge from being
>>>> applied.
>>>
>>> So less "Profit superSedes energy saving" and more "why do they make it
>>> so hard for me to avoid the standing charge".
>>
>> If they made it easier and less expensive for me to have my meter
>> disconnected, my flat would be using even less energy than when having
>> a towel rail and a small heater running.
>
>Why you need to leave them - or anything - on while you are away?

It's been a preference in the past. My sister would come and water the
houseplants and other housekeeping checks. But the cost of doing so
has increased with the newly imposed standard tariffs.
--

Mike

On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 15:33:38 +0100, Andrew
<Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com> wrote:

>On 18/04/2022 14:32, Mike Halmarack wrote:
>
>> It would be great if this prevented the standing charge from being
>> applied.
>
>Blimey, you are getting worse !.

That's possible?

>If you have a meter, then you have a supply that you *can* use
>at any time, and therefore you have to pay the standing charge.
>The *only* way to avoid a standing charge is to cease being
>a customer and have the meter removed - permanently.

I'm sure that's not true.

>For many years the energy suppliers had zero-standing charge
>tariffs and simply charged dual rates where the first NNNN
>units were at a higher rate than the rate for NNNN+1 units.

That would be useful.

>Ofgem effectively got rid of these when 'Smart meters' were
>mandated and the standing charge was then intended to provide
>the (never ending) money stream to pay for the 'free' smart
>meters. Over a 30 year period the standing charges will pay
>for the smart meter rollout many times over.

Something else that seems unreasonable.
--

Mike

On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 15:23:36 +0100, Andrew
<Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com> wrote:

>On 18/04/2022 12:22, Mike Halmarack wrote:
>> I was hoping to have my electric meter turned off at reasonable cost
>> while I was away from my flat for 6 months.
>
>Spending your (UK taxpayer-funded) pension on someone else's GDP ?
>
>> Previously I've left my electric towel rail on and a small electric
>> heater but the new higher standing charge is way too daunting
>> considering the low usage in an empty flat.
>
>The standing charge is the same whether it is empty or not. It is
>the unit charge that matters.

I'm afraid you brilliant deduction has lost me there.
--

Mike

In article <emsq5h9kh8dhe92r3vngtiqo4jvjfn1aje@4ax.com>,
Mike Halmarack <mikehalmarack@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 15:15:48 +0100, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:

> >On 18/04/2022 14:32, Mike Halmarack wrote:
> >> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:28:30 +0100, Chris Hogg <me@privacy.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:10:34 +0100, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> On 18/04/2022 12:22, Mike Halmarack wrote:
> >>>>> I was hoping to have my electric meter turned off at reasonable cost
> >>>>> while I was away from my flat for 6 months.
> >>>>> Previously I've left my electric towel rail on and a small electric
> >>>>> heater but the new higher standing charge is way too daunting
> >>>>> considering the low usage in an empty flat.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> First I saw this link:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Which showed a possible option as Item 4:
> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> 4. Disconnect an electricity meter
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Typically customers need this when:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Moving out of a property and they don't’ want to be charged for an
> >>>>> electricity bill
> >>>>> Renovating a property and want their electricity meter removed
> >>>>> temporarily or permanently
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The company you pay your electricity bills legally own the meter so
> >>>>> only they can work on the electricity meter and remove it for you.
> >>>>> Find out your electricity supplier and your MPAN
> >>>>> ----------------------------------
> >>>>> I mentioned this on the MSE forum and was given this link as being
> >>>>> relevant
> >>>>> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect/time-and-cost
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I remember reading a few years a go that the cost for this procedure
> >>>>> was about 250 quid but this link page shows charges running into
> >>>>> thousands, though I'm not sure the context covers my particular
> >>>>> requirement.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "No standing charge tariffs" seem to have disappeared from the
> >>>>> possible options too.
> >>>>
> >>>> I don't u/s your Subject. The only energy saved by removing the meter
> >>>> (over and above turning off the supply at the Consumer Unit) is the
> >>>> energy the meter itself consumes. Even with a Smart Meter that's tiny
> >>>> - about a kWh a year.
> >>>>
> >>>> And don't confuse de-energisation and disconnection. If you are really
> >>>> just interested in energy saving all you need is the former - which can
> >>>> be done by just taking the main fuse out of the incomer.
> >>>
> >>> My thoughts were on similar lines - just throw the mains isolator
> >>> switch, except that when I went to look at mine, there wasn't one!
> >>> Must have been taken out when the smart meter was fitted. But I see
> >>> upthread Theo says there's a 100A isolator inside the smart meter
> >>> which I assume can do the same job if MH can get it to work. Failing
> >>> that, just throw the isolator(s) in the CU? Or even just go round the
> >>> house unplugging or switching off everything.
> >>
> >> It would be great if this prevented the standing charge from being
> >> applied.
> >
> >So less "Profit superSedes energy saving" and more "why do they make it
> >so hard for me to avoid the standing charge".

> If they made it easier and less expensive for me to have my meter
> disconnected, my flat would be using even less energy than when having
> a towel rail and a small heater running.

How aboutb your computer> Or do you charge it at work?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 16:12:42 +0100, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk>
wrote:

>In article <emsq5h9kh8dhe92r3vngtiqo4jvjfn1aje@4ax.com>,
> Mike Halmarack <mikehalmarack@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 15:15:48 +0100, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>
>> >On 18/04/2022 14:32, Mike Halmarack wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:28:30 +0100, Chris Hogg <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 14:10:34 +0100, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 18/04/2022 12:22, Mike Halmarack wrote:
>> >>>>> I was hoping to have my electric meter turned off at reasonable cost
>> >>>>> while I was away from my flat for 6 months.
>> >>>>> Previously I've left my electric towel rail on and a small electric
>> >>>>> heater but the new higher standing charge is way too daunting
>> >>>>> considering the low usage in an empty flat.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> First I saw this link:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Which showed a possible option as Item 4:
>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>> 4. Disconnect an electricity meter
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Typically customers need this when:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Moving out of a property and they don't’ want to be charged for an
>> >>>>> electricity bill
>> >>>>> Renovating a property and want their electricity meter removed
>> >>>>> temporarily or permanently
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The company you pay your electricity bills legally own the meter so
>> >>>>> only they can work on the electricity meter and remove it for you.
>> >>>>> Find out your electricity supplier and your MPAN
>> >>>>> ----------------------------------
>> >>>>> I mentioned this on the MSE forum and was given this link as being
>> >>>>> relevant
>> >>>>> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect/time-and-cost
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I remember reading a few years a go that the cost for this procedure
>> >>>>> was about 250 quid but this link page shows charges running into
>> >>>>> thousands, though I'm not sure the context covers my particular
>> >>>>> requirement.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> "No standing charge tariffs" seem to have disappeared from the
>> >>>>> possible options too.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I don't u/s your Subject. The only energy saved by removing the meter
>> >>>> (over and above turning off the supply at the Consumer Unit) is the
>> >>>> energy the meter itself consumes. Even with a Smart Meter that's tiny
>> >>>> - about a kWh a year.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> And don't confuse de-energisation and disconnection. If you are really
>> >>>> just interested in energy saving all you need is the former - which can
>> >>>> be done by just taking the main fuse out of the incomer.
>> >>>
>> >>> My thoughts were on similar lines - just throw the mains isolator
>> >>> switch, except that when I went to look at mine, there wasn't one!
>> >>> Must have been taken out when the smart meter was fitted. But I see
>> >>> upthread Theo says there's a 100A isolator inside the smart meter
>> >>> which I assume can do the same job if MH can get it to work. Failing
>> >>> that, just throw the isolator(s) in the CU? Or even just go round the
>> >>> house unplugging or switching off everything.
>> >>
>> >> It would be great if this prevented the standing charge from being
>> >> applied.
>> >
>> >So less "Profit superSedes energy saving" and more "why do they make it
>> >so hard for me to avoid the standing charge".
>
>> If they made it easier and less expensive for me to have my meter
>> disconnected, my flat would be using even less energy than when having
>> a towel rail and a small heater running.
>
>How aboutb your computer> Or do you charge it at work?

I take my computer away with me. It's a Notebook.
--

Mike

On 18/04/2022 12:22, Mike Halmarack wrote:
> I was hoping to have my electric meter turned off at reasonable cost
> while I was away from my flat for 6 months.
> Previously I've left my electric towel rail on and a small electric
> heater but the new higher standing charge is way too daunting
> considering the low usage in an empty flat.
>
> First I saw this link:
>
> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect
>
> Which showed a possible option as Item 4:
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 4. Disconnect an electricity meter
>
> Typically customers need this when:
>
> Moving out of a property and they don't’ want to be charged for an
> electricity bill
> Renovating a property and want their electricity meter removed
> temporarily or permanently
>
> The company you pay your electricity bills legally own the meter so
> only they can work on the electricity meter and remove it for you.
> Find out your electricity supplier and your MPAN
> ----------------------------------
> I mentioned this on the MSE forum and was given this link as being
> relevant
> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect/time-and-cost
>
> I remember reading a few years a go that the cost for this procedure
> was about 250 quid but this link page shows charges running into
> thousands, though I'm not sure the context covers my particular
> requirement.
>
> "No standing charge tariffs" seem to have disappeared from the
> possible options too.

Switch, these people seem to have no standing charge tariffs:
https://utilita.co.uk/help/our-tariffs

On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 23:10:34 +1000, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:

> On 18/04/2022 12:22, Mike Halmarack wrote:
>> I was hoping to have my electric meter turned off at reasonable cost
>> while I was away from my flat for 6 months.
>> Previously I've left my electric towel rail on and a small electric
>> heater but the new higher standing charge is way too daunting
>> considering the low usage in an empty flat.
>> First I saw this link:
>> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect
>> Which showed a possible option as Item 4:
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>> 4. Disconnect an electricity meter
>> Typically customers need this when:
>> Moving out of a property and they don't’ want to be charged for an
>> electricity bill
>> Renovating a property and want their electricity meter removed
>> temporarily or permanently
>> The company you pay your electricity bills legally own the meter so
>> only they can work on the electricity meter and remove it for you.
>> Find out your electricity supplier and your MPAN
>> ----------------------------------
>> I mentioned this on the MSE forum and was given this link as being
>> relevant
>> https://www.ukpowernetworks.co.uk/electricity/disconnect/time-and-cost
>> I remember reading a few years a go that the cost for this procedure
>> was about 250 quid but this link page shows charges running into
>> thousands, though I'm not sure the context covers my particular
>> requirement.
>> "No standing charge tariffs" seem to have disappeared from the
>> possible options too.
>
> I don't u/s your Subject. The only energy saved by removing the meter
> (over and above turning off the supply at the Consumer Unit) is the
> energy the meter itself consumes. Even with a Smart Meter that's tiny
> - about a kWh a year.
>
> And don't confuse de-energisation and disconnection. If you are really
> just interested in energy saving all you need is the former - which can
> be done by just taking the main fuse out of the incomer.

He clearly wants to avoid the standing charge. Pulling the mains fuse
won't fix that.

Richard wrote:

> Switch, these people seem to have no standing charge tariffs:
> https://utilita.co.uk/help/our-tariffs

But make sure you turn off that heater, or they'll nab back the equivalent of a
standing charge by two *very* expensive units per day.