Like many of us, I have at least six old desktop PCs and various other
old hard drives sitting around, and really should see what is on them,
and what needs saving. I could fire up each one, but even then there is
the problem of moving files. No USB sockets, and some don't even have a
network card.

Looking at adapters such as this, via Amazon :

<https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B096ZQHD3V?pd_rd_i=B096ZQHD3V&pd_rd_w=CVfH8&
pf_rd_p=c5629250-1e5d-4c40-820a-5b1f8689d08d&pd_rd_wg=a3rUu&pf_rd_r=M9DBE
G5DPXNCDYCG81Q3&pd_rd_r=97839ae8-56ff-457b-b4c6-3a02cf306a03>

Seems to accept most hard drives, and provides power as well as data,
ideal to just plug into my laptop via USB to view contents and copy
across if required, or just delete if not. Do these things work as well
as the blurb suggests? Any experience? Thanks!

--
Graeme

On 19/04/2022 in message <kCKZ9RIISrXiFw+n@binnsroad.myzen.co.uk> Graeme
wrote:

>
>Like many of us, I have at least six old desktop PCs and various other old
>hard drives sitting around, and really should see what is on them, and
>what needs saving. I could fire up each one, but even then there is the
>problem of moving files. No USB sockets, and some don't even have a
>network card.
>
>Looking at adapters such as this, via Amazon :
>
><https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B096ZQHD3V?pd_rd_i=B096ZQHD3V&pd_rd_w=CVfH8&
>pf_rd_p=c5629250-1e5d-4c40-820a-5b1f8689d08d&pd_rd_wg=a3rUu&pf_rd_r=M9DBE
>G5DPXNCDYCG81Q3&pd_rd_r=97839ae8-56ff-457b-b4c6-3a02cf306a03>
>
>Seems to accept most hard drives, and provides power as well as data,
>ideal to just plug into my laptop via USB to view contents and copy across
>if required, or just delete if not. Do these things work as well as the
>blurb suggests? Any experience? Thanks!

I have used similar and they are fine, that one may have a use in the
future for plugging a SATA drive in via USB temporarily. I don't know what
you plan to do with the old drives but it may be worth using something
like DBAN:

https://dban.org/

Unless you plan to physically destroy them, one of the old machines may be
able to run it.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
I've been through the desert on a horse with no name.
It was a right bugger to get him back when he ran off.

On 19/04/2022 14:09, Graeme wrote:
>
> Like many of us, I have at least six old desktop PCs and various other
> old hard drives sitting around, and really should see what is on them,
> and what needs saving.  I could fire up each one, but even then there is
> the problem of moving files.  No USB sockets, and some don't even have a
> network card.
>
> Looking at adapters such as this, via Amazon :
>
> <https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B096ZQHD3V?pd_rd_i=B096ZQHD3V&pd_rd_w=CVfH8&
> pf_rd_p=c5629250-1e5d-4c40-820a-5b1f8689d08d&pd_rd_wg=a3rUu&pf_rd_r=M9DBE
> G5DPXNCDYCG81Q3&pd_rd_r=97839ae8-56ff-457b-b4c6-3a02cf306a03>
>
> Seems to accept most hard drives, and provides power as well as data,
> ideal to just plug into my laptop via USB to view contents and copy
> across if required, or just delete if not.  Do these things work as well
> as the blurb suggests?  Any experience?  Thanks!

I have not used that particular one, but have many USB adaptors and
docking stations, and have found they all work ok.

For modern large hard drives, it is worth getting a USB3 one, but less
critical for older smaller drives.

For scrubbing data, I find a 8mm drill in the pillar drill is quite
effective :-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

In message <xn0ngt0th8bewld00h@news.individual.net>, Jeff Gaines
<jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>
>https://dban.org/
>
>Unless you plan to physically destroy them, one of the old machines may
>be able to run it.
>
Thank you!

--
Graeme

On Tue, 19 Apr 2022 14:09:28 +0100, Graeme wrote:

> Like many of us, I have at least six old desktop PCs and various other
> old hard drives sitting around, and really should see what is on them,
> and what needs saving. I could fire up each one, but even then there is
> the problem of moving files. No USB sockets, and some don't even have a
> network card.
>
> Looking at adapters such as this, via Amazon :
>
> <https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B096ZQHD3V?pd_rd_i=B096ZQHD3V&pd_rd_w=CVfH8&
> pf_rd_p=c5629250-1e5d-4c40-820a-5b1f8689d08d&pd_rd_wg=a3rUu&pf_rd_r=M9DBE
> G5DPXNCDYCG81Q3&pd_rd_r=97839ae8-56ff-457b-b4c6-3a02cf306a03>
>
> Seems to accept most hard drives, and provides power as well as data,
> ideal to just plug into my laptop via USB to view contents and copy
> across if required, or just delete if not. Do these things work as well
> as the blurb suggests? Any experience? Thanks!

I use a device like this one https://ibb.co/XXcGSsQ it has a multiple
connector for different styles of hard drive.

In message <t3mfpr$o55$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> writes
>On 19/04/2022 14:09, Graeme wrote:
>> Like many of us, I have at least six old desktop PCs and various
>>other old hard drives sitting around, and really should see what is
>>on them, and what needs saving.  I could fire up each one, but even
>>then there is the problem of moving files.  No USB sockets, and some
>>don't even have a network card.
>> Looking at adapters such as this, via Amazon :
>>
>><https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B096ZQHD3V?pd_rd_i=B096ZQHD3V&pd_rd_w=CVfH>>8&
>> pf_rd_p=c5629250-1e5d-4c40-820a-5b1f8689d08d&pd_rd_wg=a3rUu&pf_rd_r=M9DBE
>> G5DPXNCDYCG81Q3&pd_rd_r=97839ae8-56ff-457b-b4c6-3a02cf306a03>
>> Seems to accept most hard drives, and provides power as well as
>>data, ideal to just plug into my laptop via USB to view contents and
>>copy across if required, or just delete if not.  Do these things work
>>as well as the blurb suggests?  Any experience?  Thanks!
>
>I have not used that particular one, but have many USB adaptors and
>docking stations, and have found they all work ok.
>
>For modern large hard drives, it is worth getting a USB3 one, but less
>critical for older smaller drives.
>
>For scrubbing data, I find a 8mm drill in the pillar drill is quite
>effective :-)
>
That's vandalism! Wipe them and give them away.

There's lots of freeware that (among many other things) will do a data
wipe. For example, CCleaner will let you do 1,3,7 or 35 wipes. As I
understand it, even a coup/e of wipes will generally defeat the combined
best efforts of the FBI, KGB and MI6.

As for the adapters, as others have said there are a lot of them about
(generally for less than 10 pounds), and work fine. Most have a separate
power supply for the hard drive.
--
Ian

In article <kCKZ9RIISrXiFw+n@binnsroad.myzen.co.uk>,
Graeme <News@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> Like many of us, I have at least six old desktop PCs and various other
> old hard drives sitting around, and really should see what is on them,
> and what needs saving. I could fire up each one, but even then there is
> the problem of moving files. No USB sockets, and some don't even have a
> network card.

> Looking at adapters such as this, via Amazon :

> <https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B096ZQHD3V?pd_rd_i=B096ZQHD3V&pd_rd_w=CVfH8&
> pf_rd_p=c5629250-1e5d-4c40-820a-5b1f8689d08d&pd_rd_wg=a3rUu&pf_rd_r=M9DBE
> G5DPXNCDYCG81Q3&pd_rd_r=97839ae8-56ff-457b-b4c6-3a02cf306a03>

> Seems to accept most hard drives, and provides power as well as data,
> ideal to just plug into my laptop via USB to view contents and copy
> across if required, or just delete if not. Do these things work as well
> as the blurb suggests? Any experience? Thanks!

Yes - I've got a similar one. Except it has its own PS. USB will likely be
slower than SATA etc - but not a problem for simply retrieving etc stuff.

--
*Middle age is when work is a lot less fun - and fun a lot more work.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 19/04/2022 16:31, Ian Jackson wrote:
> In message <t3mfpr$o55$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
> <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> writes
>> On 19/04/2022 14:09, Graeme wrote:
>>>  Like many of us, I have at least six old desktop PCs and various
>>> other  old hard drives sitting around, and really should see what is
>>> on them,  and what needs saving.  I could fire up each one, but even
>>> then there is  the problem of moving files.  No USB sockets, and some
>>> don't even have a  network card.
>>>  Looking at adapters such as this, via Amazon :
>>>
>>> <https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B096ZQHD3V?pd_rd_i=B096ZQHD3V&pd_rd_w=CVfH>>8&
>>>
>>> pf_rd_p=c5629250-1e5d-4c40-820a-5b1f8689d08d&pd_rd_wg=a3rUu&pf_rd_r=M9DBE
>>>
>>> G5DPXNCDYCG81Q3&pd_rd_r=97839ae8-56ff-457b-b4c6-3a02cf306a03>
>>>  Seems to accept most hard drives, and provides power as well as
>>> data,  ideal to just plug into my laptop via USB to view contents and
>>> copy  across if required, or just delete if not.  Do these things
>>> work as well  as the blurb suggests?  Any experience?  Thanks!
>>
>> I have not used that particular one, but have many USB adaptors and
>> docking stations, and have found they all work ok.
>>
>> For modern large hard drives, it is worth getting a USB3 one, but less
>> critical for older smaller drives.
>>
>> For scrubbing data, I find a 8mm drill in the pillar drill is quite
>> effective :-)
>>
> That's vandalism! Wipe them and give them away.

Not sure it is worth it... Who are you going to give them to?

There is arguably some point in retaining a few smaller legacy drives to
keep old kit working that can't cope with modern large sector "AF"
drives, but for anything that can use a modern drive there is only very
limited use for small (i.e. anything < 500GB) drives.

Most of them are going to be 10 years old or more, so you are unlikely
to want to risk important data on them. SSDs are cheap enough to use in
legacy kit and also represent a welcome boost in performance.

Just look at the number of modern add in cards and adaptors for old
machines that allow smart cards and compact flash cards to stand in as a
replacement for old hard drives. They can provide all the capacity many
legacy machines can address, with a massive boost in performance and
convenience.

> There's lots of freeware that (among many other things) will do a data
> wipe. For example, CCleaner will let you do 1,3,7 or 35 wipes. As I
> understand it, even a coup/e of wipes will generally defeat the combined
> best efforts of the FBI, KGB and MI6.

Indeed there is, but it also takes lots of time to wipe a drive. If you
need to safely dispose of a dozen of them you could spend days doing it.

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

In message <t3mvat$lb6$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> writes
>On 19/04/2022 16:31, Ian Jackson wrote:
>> In message <t3mfpr$o55$1@dont-email.me>, John Rumm
>><see.my.signature@nowhere.null> writes
>>> On 19/04/2022 14:09, Graeme wrote:
>>>>  Like many of us, I have at least six old desktop PCs and various
>>>>other  old hard drives sitting around, and really should see what is
>>>>on them,  and what needs saving.  I could fire up each one, but even
>>>>then there is  the problem of moving files.  No USB sockets, and
>>>>some don't even have a  network card.
>>>>  Looking at adapters such as this, via Amazon :
>>>>
>>>>
>>>><https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B096ZQHD3V?pd_rd_i=B096ZQHD3V&pd_rd_w=CV
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>pf_rd_p=c5629250-1e5d-4c40-820a-5b1f8689d08d&pd_rd_wg=a3rUu&pf_rd_r=M
>>>>
>>>> G5DPXNCDYCG81Q3&pd_rd_r=97839ae8-56ff-457b-b4c6-3a02cf306a03>
>>>>  Seems to accept most hard drives, and provides power as well as
>>>>data,  ideal to just plug into my laptop via USB to view contents
>>>>and copy  across if required, or just delete if not.  Do these
>>>>things work as well  as the blurb suggests?  Any experience?  Thanks!
>>>
>>> I have not used that particular one, but have many USB adaptors and
>>>docking stations, and have found they all work ok.
>>>
>>> For modern large hard drives, it is worth getting a USB3 one, but
>>>less critical for older smaller drives.
>>>
>>> For scrubbing data, I find a 8mm drill in the pillar drill is quite
>>>effective :-)
>>>
>> That's vandalism! Wipe them and give them away.
>
>Not sure it is worth it... Who are you going to give them to?
>
>There is arguably some point in retaining a few smaller legacy drives
>to keep old kit working that can't cope with modern large sector "AF"
>drives, but for anything that can use a modern drive there is only very
>limited use for small (i.e. anything < 500GB) drives.
>
>Most of them are going to be 10 years old or more, so you are unlikely
>to want to risk important data on them. SSDs are cheap enough to use in
>legacy kit and also represent a welcome boost in performance.
>
>Just look at the number of modern add in cards and adaptors for old
>machines that allow smart cards and compact flash cards to stand in as
>a replacement for old hard drives. They can provide all the capacity
>many legacy machines can address, with a massive boost in performance
>and convenience.

Old hard drives are handy for storing 'secondary' backups of things like
photos, music, downloads of old programs that you're unlikely ever to
use again (etc) - provided you're not going to want to rely 100% on
them. I've got a few really old drives - some very small capacity (down
to around 5GB), and they actually seem to check out OK. Otherwise, they
are handy just to 'play around with', and are something to allow you
hone your computer skills on!
>
>> There's lots of freeware that (among many other things) will do a
>>data wipe. For example, CCleaner will let you do 1,3,7 or 35 wipes.
>>As I understand it, even a coup/e of wipes will generally defeat the
>>combined best efforts of the FBI, KGB and MI6.
>
>Indeed there is, but it also takes lots of time to wipe a drive. If you
>need to safely dispose of a dozen of them you could spend days doing
>it.

Wiping can be left to run in the background, and doesn't seem to impact
on the computer's performance.
--
Ian

On Wed, 20 Apr 2022 00:08:59 +1000, John Rumm
<see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:

> On 19/04/2022 14:09, Graeme wrote:
>> Like many of us, I have at least six old desktop PCs and various other
>> old hard drives sitting around, and really should see what is on them,
>> and what needs saving. I could fire up each one, but even then there
>> is the problem of moving files. No USB sockets, and some don't even
>> have a network card.
>> Looking at adapters such as this, via Amazon :
>>
>> <https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B096ZQHD3V?pd_rd_i=B096ZQHD3V&pd_rd_w=CVfH8&
>> pf_rd_p=c5629250-1e5d-4c40-820a-5b1f8689d08d&pd_rd_wg=a3rUu&pf_rd_r=M9DBE
>> G5DPXNCDYCG81Q3&pd_rd_r=97839ae8-56ff-457b-b4c6-3a02cf306a03>
>> Seems to accept most hard drives, and provides power as well as data,
>> ideal to just plug into my laptop via USB to view contents and copy
>> across if required, or just delete if not. Do these things work as
>> well as the blurb suggests? Any experience? Thanks!
>
> I have not used that particular one, but have many USB adaptors and
> docking stations, and have found they all work ok.
>
> For modern large hard drives, it is worth getting a USB3 one, but less
> critical for older smaller drives.
>
> For scrubbing data, I find a 8mm drill in the pillar drill is quite
> effective :-)

DBAN is a lot easier to use and works just as well.

"John Rumm" <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote in message
news:t3mvat$lb6$1@dont-email.me...
> There is arguably some point in retaining a few smaller legacy drives to
> keep old kit working that can't cope with modern large sector "AF" drives,
> but for anything that can use a modern drive there is only very limited
> use for small (i.e. anything < 500GB) drives.

Until a recent house move when I got rid of a lot of obsolete techno-crap, I
had several IDE drives that ranged in size from 500 MB (yes, not GB) to
about 40 GB. I kept the largest of those IDE drives in case I might ever
need one, but I doubt whether any PC sold in the last few years even *has*
IDE ports as opposed to SATA ones.

I bought an IDE/SATA-to-IDE interface for accessing drives that I've removed
temporarily or permanently from PCs. I offer a PC repair service in my area
and there have been several occasions when PCs have totally failed to boot
and I can't find a quick solution. As long as the drive isn't encrypted (if
it is, all bets are off) then I can remove it, connect it as an external
drive to a working PC and then copy off important data - subject to the
usual loooong delay while Windows does a "take ownership" of every
file/folder under C:\users\<username>. Once the data is safe, I can do a
fresh installation of Windows, without having to worry whether or not this
will preserve the C:\users tree.

I also have an interface board from an external HDD where the drive failed
but the board is fine. This is a little less cumbersome to correct up
because it plugs directly into the drive, without needing separate SATA and
power leads from interface to drive. It's also faster, being USB3 rather
than USB2.

Talking of old kit... one of my regular customers whose Win 8 laptop I've
worked on in the past asked me whether while I was there I'd be able to sort
out his Windows 95 PC ;-) He had kept this ancient PC, never connected to
the internet and only used with the version of Office that it came with, for
some of his financial records. I'm not sure whether it had USB ports, so I
don't know whether he ever transferred any data files to/from it. The
problem was a dead CMOS battery (not surprising after 25 years!) which was
made worse by the fact that the terminals of the leads from battery to
motherboard had been *welded* on to the battery by the PC vendor, so there
was no way I could get them off and had to cut the leads. I had to botch a
solution (sellotape the bare leads to either side of the battery) as he
wanted it working "now" rather than waiting for me to order a CR2032 battery
holder.

It was very odd when I booted up the PC and was reminded what Win 95 looked
like. If I'd had to do any configuration (as opposed to just changing the
battery) I'd probably have taken a llittle while to remember my way round
the Control Panel and its various applets.

John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
> Not sure it is worth it... Who are you going to give them to?

If they are very old, they are potentially of interest to 'retrocomputing'
enthusiasts who want to fit them to old computers:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/183804528999

Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote
> John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote
>> Ian Jackson wrote
>>> John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote
>>>> Graeme wrote

>>>>> Like many of us, I have at least six old desktop PCs and various
>>>>> other old hard drives sitting around, and really should see what is
>>>>> on them, and what needs saving. I could fire up each one, but even
>>>>> then there is the problem of moving files. No USB sockets, and
>>>>> some don't even have a network card.
>>>>> Looking at adapters such as this, via Amazon :
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B096ZQHD3V?pd_rd_i=B096ZQHD3V&pd_rd_w=CV
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> pf_rd_p=c5629250-1e5d-4c40-820a-5b1f8689d08d&pd_rd_wg=a3rUu&pf_rd_r=M
>>>>>
>>>>> G5DPXNCDYCG81Q3&pd_rd_r=97839ae8-56ff-457b-b4c6-3a02cf306a03>
>>>>> Seems to accept most hard drives, and provides power as well as
>>>>> data, ideal to just plug into my laptop via USB to view contents
>>>>> and copy across if required, or just delete if not. Do these
>>>>> things work as well as the blurb suggests? Any experience?
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> I have not used that particular one, but have many USB adaptors and
>>>> docking stations, and have found they all work ok.
>>>>
>>>> For modern large hard drives, it is worth getting a USB3 one, but
>>>> less critical for older smaller drives.
>>>>
>>>> For scrubbing data, I find a 8mm drill in the pillar drill is quite
>>>> effective :-)
>>>>
>>> That's vandalism! Wipe them and give them away.
>>
>> Not sure it is worth it... Who are you going to give them to?
>>
>> There is arguably some point in retaining a few smaller legacy drives
>> to keep old kit working that can't cope with modern large sector "AF"
>> drives, but for anything that can use a modern drive there is only very
>> limited use for small (i.e. anything < 500GB) drives.
>>
>> Most of them are going to be 10 years old or more, so you are unlikely
>> to want to risk important data on them. SSDs are cheap enough to use in
>> legacy kit and also represent a welcome boost in performance.
>>
>> Just look at the number of modern add in cards and adaptors for old
>> machines that allow smart cards and compact flash cards to stand in as
>> a replacement for old hard drives. They can provide all the capacity
>> many legacy machines can address, with a massive boost in performance
>> and convenience.

> Old hard drives are handy for storing 'secondary' backups of things like
> photos, music, downloads of old programs that you're unlikely ever to
> use again (etc) - provided you're not going to want to rely 100% on them.

Makes a lot more sense to have a couple of external hard drives for that.

> I've got a few really old drives - some very small capacity (down to
> around 5GB), and they actually seem to check out OK. Otherwise, they are
> handy just to 'play around with', and are something to allow you hone
> your computer skills on!

But those 'skills' with RLL etc drives is now completely useless.

>>> There's lots of freeware that (among many other things) will do a
>>> data wipe. For example, CCleaner will let you do 1,3,7 or 35 wipes.
>>> As I understand it, even a coup/e of wipes will generally defeat the
>>> combined best efforts of the FBI, KGB and MI6.
>>
>> Indeed there is, but it also takes lots of time to wipe a drive. If you
>> need to safely dispose of a dozen of them you could spend days doing it.

> Wiping can be left to run in the background, and doesn't seem to impact
> on the computer's performance.

Graeme <News@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Like many of us, I have at least six old desktop PCs and various other
> old hard drives sitting around, and really should see what is on them,
> and what needs saving. I could fire up each one, but even then there is
> the problem of moving files. No USB sockets, and some don't even have a
> network card.
>
> Looking at adapters such as this, via Amazon :
>
> <https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B096ZQHD3V?pd_rd_i=B096ZQHD3V&pd_rd_w=CVfH8&
> pf_rd_p=c5629250-1e5d-4c40-820a-5b1f8689d08d&pd_rd_wg=a3rUu&pf_rd_r=M9DBE
> G5DPXNCDYCG81Q3&pd_rd_r=97839ae8-56ff-457b-b4c6-3a02cf306a03>
>
> Seems to accept most hard drives, and provides power as well as data,
> ideal to just plug into my laptop via USB to view contents and copy
> across if required, or just delete if not. Do these things work as well
> as the blurb suggests? Any experience? Thanks!
>

I’ve got a USB 2 to Sata converter which is more of a lead - not really a
box. I bought it before USB 3 was available.

It certainly works. Fine for checking contents of a stray disk etc. and
copying files. Possibly not as quick as it could be etc.

You can also get ones where the drives stand vertically. Often they have 2
or 3 slots, perhaps 1 2.5 and 2 3.5, I considered one of those but never
bothered.

In message <op.1kv8b5dtbyq249@pvr2.lan>, Rod Speed
<rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> writes
>Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote

>
>> Old hard drives are handy for storing 'secondary' backups of things
>>like photos, music, downloads of old programs that you're unlikely
>>ever to use again (etc) - provided you're not going to want to rely
>>100% on them.
>
>Makes a lot more sense to have a couple of external hard drives for that.

I said 'secondary' backups - ie ;belt and braces;, when you might like
'to be sure to be sure'.
>

>>>

--
Ian

In message <t3o4o3$73j$1@dont-email.me>, Brian <noinv@lid.org> writes
>Graeme <News@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Like many of us, I have at least six old desktop PCs and various other
>> old hard drives sitting around, and really should see what is on them,
>> and what needs saving. I could fire up each one, but even then there is
>> the problem of moving files. No USB sockets, and some don't even have a
>> network card.
>>
>> Looking at adapters such as this, via Amazon :
>>
>> <https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B096ZQHD3V?pd_rd_i=B096ZQHD3V&pd_rd_w=CVfH8&
>> pf_rd_p=c5629250-1e5d-4c40-820a-5b1f8689d08d&pd_rd_wg=a3rUu&pf_rd_r=M9DBE
>> G5DPXNCDYCG81Q3&pd_rd_r=97839ae8-56ff-457b-b4c6-3a02cf306a03>
>>
>> Seems to accept most hard drives, and provides power as well as data,
>> ideal to just plug into my laptop via USB to view contents and copy
>> across if required, or just delete if not. Do these things work as well
>> as the blurb suggests? Any experience? Thanks!
>>
>
>I’ve got a USB 2 to Sata converter which is more of a lead - not really a
>box. I bought it before USB 3 was available.
>
>It certainly works. Fine for checking contents of a stray disk etc. and
>copying files. Possibly not as quick as it could be etc.
>
>You can also get ones where the drives stand vertically. Often they have 2
>or 3 slots, perhaps 1 2.5 and 2 3.5, I considered one of those but never
>bothered.
>
On this subject, is there any evidence that there is any difference in
constant-use longevity between disks mounted horizontally, and those
mounted vertically?
--
Ian

On 20/04/2022 13:29, Ian Jackson wrote:
> On this subject, is there any evidence that there is any difference in
> constant-use longevity between disks mounted horizontally, and those
> mounted vertically?

A little, mostly apocryphal. Cantilevered bearings always wear worse
than simple thrust bearings or balanced ball races.

--
Truth welcomes investigation because truth knows investigation will lead
to converts. It is deception that uses all the other techniques.

Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote

>>> Old hard drives are handy for storing 'secondary' backups of things
>>> like photos, music, downloads of old programs that you're unlikely
>>> ever to use again (etc) - provided you're not going to want to rely
>>> 100% on them.
>>
>> Makes a lot more sense to have a couple of external hard drives for
>> that.
>
> I said 'secondary' backups - ie ;belt and braces;, when you might like
> 'to be sure to be sure'.

That's why I said TWO external hard drives.

Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote
> Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote
>> Graeme <News@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote

>>> Like many of us, I have at least six old desktop PCs and various other
>>> old hard drives sitting around, and really should see what is on them,
>>> and what needs saving. I could fire up each one, but even then there
>>> is
>>> the problem of moving files. No USB sockets, and some don't even have
>>> a
>>> network card.
>>>
>>> Looking at adapters such as this, via Amazon :
>>>
>>> <https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B096ZQHD3V?pd_rd_i=B096ZQHD3V&pd_rd_w=CVfH8&
>>> pf_rd_p=c5629250-1e5d-4c40-820a-5b1f8689d08d&pd_rd_wg=a3rUu&pf_rd_r=M9DBE
>>> G5DPXNCDYCG81Q3&pd_rd_r=97839ae8-56ff-457b-b4c6-3a02cf306a03>
>>>
>>> Seems to accept most hard drives, and provides power as well as data,
>>> ideal to just plug into my laptop via USB to view contents and copy
>>> across if required, or just delete if not. Do these things work as
>>> well
>>> as the blurb suggests? Any experience? Thanks!
>>>
>>
>> I’ve got a USB 2 to Sata converter which is more of a lead - not really
>> a
>> box. I bought it before USB 3 was available.
>>
>> It certainly works. Fine for checking contents of a stray disk etc. and
>> copying files. Possibly not as quick as it could be etc.
>>
>> You can also get ones where the drives stand vertically. Often they
>> have 2
>> or 3 slots, perhaps 1 2.5 and 2 3.5, I considered one of those but never
>> bothered.
>>
> On this subject, is there any evidence that there is any difference in
> constant-use longevity between disks mounted horizontally, and those
> mounted vertically?

I have never seen any evidence of that and some servers do have
vertically mounted drives so you can do a swap of a failing drive
without powering the server down, just slide out the old one and
slide in the new one, with the drive vertical.

On 20/04/2022 13:29, Ian Jackson wrote:
> On this subject, is there any evidence that there is any difference in
> constant-use longevity between disks mounted horizontally, and those
> mounted vertically?

Many, many years ago we had a variety of disc that could be stood on the
base or either side. But not the top, front or back.

YMMV.

Andy

On 4/20/2022 8:29 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:
> In message <t3o4o3$73j$1@dont-email.me>, Brian <noinv@lid.org> writes
>> Graeme <News@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> Like many of us, I have at least six old desktop PCs and various other
>>> old hard drives sitting around, and really should see what is on them,
>>> and what needs saving.  I could fire up each one, but even then there is
>>> the problem of moving files.  No USB sockets, and some don't even have a
>>> network card.
>>>
>>> Looking at adapters such as this, via Amazon :
>>>
>>> <https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B096ZQHD3V?pd_rd_i=B096ZQHD3V&pd_rd_w=CVfH8&
>>> pf_rd_p=c5629250-1e5d-4c40-820a-5b1f8689d08d&pd_rd_wg=a3rUu&pf_rd_r=M9DBE
>>> G5DPXNCDYCG81Q3&pd_rd_r=97839ae8-56ff-457b-b4c6-3a02cf306a03>
>>>
>>> Seems to accept most hard drives, and provides power as well as data,
>>> ideal to just plug into my laptop via USB to view contents and copy
>>> across if required, or just delete if not.  Do these things work as well
>>> as the blurb suggests?  Any experience?  Thanks!
>>>
>>
>> I’ve got a USB 2 to Sata converter which is more of a lead - not really a
>> box. I bought it before USB 3 was available.
>>
>> It certainly works. Fine for checking contents of a stray disk etc. and
>> copying files. Possibly not as quick as it could be etc.
>>
>> You can also get ones where the drives stand vertically. Often they have 2
>> or 3 slots, perhaps 1 2.5 and 2 3.5, I considered one of those but never
>> bothered.
>>
> On this subject, is there any evidence that there is any difference in
> constant-use longevity between disks mounted horizontally, and those mounted vertically?

The drive datasheet will tell you it is "six axis compatible".
It can be rotated to compass points, right side up, upside down and
so on. You can rest the drive on its butt-end, like in a Dell or
an HP. (Home built computers do not usually abuse the orientation.)

Forty five degree angles are not recommended. While it
"still works while sitting on bed covers", the spec doesn't say that.

However, you may notice when the drive has 20,000 hours on
it, and you're doing data recovery, that one orientation
works better than another.

What can I say.

Paul

In message <t3udee$1bd7$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
writes
>On 4/20/2022 8:29 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:
>> In message <t3o4o3$73j$1@dont-email.me>, Brian <noinv@lid.org> writes
>>> Graeme <News@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Like many of us, I have at least six old desktop PCs and various other
>>>> old hard drives sitting around, and really should see what is on them,
>>>> and what needs saving.  I could fire up each one, but even then there is
>>>> the problem of moving files.  No USB sockets, and some don't even have a
>>>> network card.
>>>>
>>>> Looking at adapters such as this, via Amazon :
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B096ZQHD3V?pd_rd_i=B096ZQHD3V&pd_rd_w=CVfH8&
>>>> pf_rd_p=c5629250-1e5d-4c40-820a-5b1f8689d08d&pd_rd_wg=a3rUu&pf_rd_r=M9DBE
>>>> G5DPXNCDYCG81Q3&pd_rd_r=97839ae8-56ff-457b-b4c6-3a02cf306a03>
>>>>
>>>> Seems to accept most hard drives, and provides power as well as data,
>>>> ideal to just plug into my laptop via USB to view contents and copy
>>>> across if required, or just delete if not.  Do these things work as well
>>>> as the blurb suggests?  Any experience?  Thanks!
>>>>
>>>
>>> I’ve got a USB 2 to Sata converter which is more of a lead - not really a
>>> box. I bought it before USB 3 was available.
>>>
>>> It certainly works. Fine for checking contents of a stray disk etc. and
>>> copying files. Possibly not as quick as it could be etc.
>>>
>>> You can also get ones where the drives stand vertically. Often they have 2
>>> or 3 slots, perhaps 1 2.5 and 2 3.5, I considered one of those but never
>>> bothered.
>>>
>> On this subject, is there any evidence that there is any difference
>>in constant-use longevity between disks mounted horizontally, and
>>those mounted vertically?
>
>The drive datasheet will tell you it is "six axis compatible".
>It can be rotated to compass points, right side up, upside down and
>so on. You can rest the drive on its butt-end, like in a Dell or
>an HP. (Home built computers do not usually abuse the orientation.)
>
>Forty five degree angles are not recommended. While it
>"still works while sitting on bed covers", the spec doesn't say that.
>
>However, you may notice when the drive has 20,000 hours on
>it, and you're doing data recovery, that one orientation
>works better than another.
>
>What can I say.
>
> Paul

Thanks for that info.

I've just had a #2 drive suddenly develop a sticky head. When doing the
first bootup of the day, when the disk was spinning up it didn't simply
click quietly (as most of my collection of sick hard drives do), but
instead gave six alarmingly loud clacks, before stopping and trying to
spin up again. Fortunately, if left for a few minutes (presumably till
it had warmed up a bit) it sorted itself out, a spun up to speed.

There was one scary moment when I set about cloning it at another hard
drive. Despite leaving it for several minutes to spin up, it didn't seem
inclined to do so. However, eventually it did, and the cloning went OK.

After putting it aside for a week, just out of interest I decided to try
it again - and this time it spun up first time, and has continued to do
so. This is what got me thinking about the effects that orientation
might have (although this doesn't seem to affect the present spin-ups).
X-GSmart shows it 100% error-free (despite many years of service), and
for all intents and purposes it looks (and sounds) like a perfectly
usable disk.
--
Ian

On Sat, 23 Apr 2022 04:38:00 +1000, Ian Jackson
<ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <t3udee$1bd7$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
> writes
>> On 4/20/2022 8:29 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:
>>> In message <t3o4o3$73j$1@dont-email.me>, Brian <noinv@lid.org> writes
>>>> Graeme <News@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Like many of us, I have at least six old desktop PCs and various
>>>>> other
>>>>> old hard drives sitting around, and really should see what is on
>>>>> them,
>>>>> and what needs saving. I could fire up each one, but even then
>>>>> there is
>>>>> the problem of moving files. No USB sockets, and some don't even
>>>>> have a
>>>>> network card.
>>>>>
>>>>> Looking at adapters such as this, via Amazon :
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B096ZQHD3V?pd_rd_i=B096ZQHD3V&pd_rd_w=CVfH8&
>>>>> pf_rd_p=c5629250-1e5d-4c40-820a-5b1f8689d08d&pd_rd_wg=a3rUu&pf_rd_r=M9DBE
>>>>> G5DPXNCDYCG81Q3&pd_rd_r=97839ae8-56ff-457b-b4c6-3a02cf306a03>
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems to accept most hard drives, and provides power as well as data,
>>>>> ideal to just plug into my laptop via USB to view contents and copy
>>>>> across if required, or just delete if not. Do these things work as
>>>>> well
>>>>> as the blurb suggests? Any experience? Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I’ve got a USB 2 to Sata converter which is more of a lead - not
>>>> really a
>>>> box. I bought it before USB 3 was available.
>>>>
>>>> It certainly works. Fine for checking contents of a stray disk etc.
>>>> and
>>>> copying files. Possibly not as quick as it could be etc.
>>>>
>>>> You can also get ones where the drives stand vertically. Often they
>>>> have 2
>>>> or 3 slots, perhaps 1 2.5 and 2 3.5, I considered one of those but
>>>> never
>>>> bothered.
>>>>
>>> On this subject, is there any evidence that there is any difference
>>> in constant-use longevity between disks mounted horizontally, and
>>> those mounted vertically?
>>
>> The drive datasheet will tell you it is "six axis compatible".
>> It can be rotated to compass points, right side up, upside down and
>> so on. You can rest the drive on its butt-end, like in a Dell or
>> an HP. (Home built computers do not usually abuse the orientation.)
>>
>> Forty five degree angles are not recommended. While it
>> "still works while sitting on bed covers", the spec doesn't say that.
>>
>> However, you may notice when the drive has 20,000 hours on
>> it, and you're doing data recovery, that one orientation
>> works better than another.
>>
>> What can I say.
>>
>> Paul
>
> Thanks for that info.
>
> I've just had a #2 drive suddenly develop a sticky head. When doing the
> first bootup of the day, when the disk was spinning up it didn't simply
> click quietly (as most of my collection of sick hard drives do), but
> instead gave six alarmingly loud clacks, before stopping and trying to
> spin up again.

That's not normally a sticky head, it is usually the drive trying
to recalibrate and not finding track 0

> Fortunately, if left for a few minutes (presumably till it hadwarmed up
> a bit) it sorted itself out, a spun up to speed.
>
> There was one scary moment when I set about cloning it at another hard
> drive. Despite leaving it for several minutes to spin up, it didn't seem
> inclined to do so. However, eventually it did, and the cloning went OK..
>
> After putting it aside for a week, just out of interest I decided to try
> it again - and this time it spun up first time, and has continued to do
> so. This is what got me thinking about the effects that orientation
> might have (although this doesn't seem to affect the present spin-ups)..
> X-GSmart shows it 100% error-free (despite many years of service), and
> for all intents and purposes it looks (and sounds) like a perfectly
> usable disk.

On 4/22/2022 2:38 PM, Ian Jackson wrote:
> In message <t3udee$1bd7$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> writes
>> On 4/20/2022 8:29 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:
>>> In message <t3o4o3$73j$1@dont-email.me>, Brian <noinv@lid.org> writes
>>>> Graeme <News@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Like many of us, I have at least six old desktop PCs and various other
>>>>> old hard drives sitting around, and really should see what is on them,
>>>>> and what needs saving.  I could fire up each one, but even then there is
>>>>> the problem of moving files.  No USB sockets, and some don't even have a
>>>>> network card.
>>>>>
>>>>> Looking at adapters such as this, via Amazon :
>>>>>
>>>>> <https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B096ZQHD3V?pd_rd_i=B096ZQHD3V&pd_rd_w=CVfH8&
>>>>> pf_rd_p=c5629250-1e5d-4c40-820a-5b1f8689d08d&pd_rd_wg=a3rUu&pf_rd_r=M9DBE
>>>>> G5DPXNCDYCG81Q3&pd_rd_r=97839ae8-56ff-457b-b4c6-3a02cf306a03>
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems to accept most hard drives, and provides power as well as data,
>>>>> ideal to just plug into my laptop via USB to view contents and copy
>>>>> across if required, or just delete if not.  Do these things work as well
>>>>> as the blurb suggests?  Any experience?  Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I’ve got a USB 2 to Sata converter which is more of a lead - not really a
>>>> box. I bought it before USB 3 was available.
>>>>
>>>> It certainly works. Fine for checking contents of a stray disk etc. and
>>>> copying files. Possibly not as quick as it could be etc.
>>>>
>>>> You can also get ones where the drives stand vertically. Often they have 2
>>>> or 3 slots, perhaps 1 2.5 and 2 3.5, I considered one of those but never
>>>> bothered.
>>>>
>>> On this subject, is there any evidence that there is any difference in  constant-use longevity between disks mounted horizontally, and those mounted vertically?
>>
>> The drive datasheet will tell you it is "six axis compatible".
>> It can be rotated to compass points, right side up, upside down and
>> so on. You can rest the drive on its butt-end, like in a Dell or
>> an HP. (Home built computers do not usually abuse the orientation.)
>>
>> Forty five degree angles are not recommended. While it
>> "still works while sitting on bed covers", the spec doesn't say that.
>>
>> However, you may notice when the drive has 20,000 hours on
>> it, and you're doing data recovery, that one orientation
>> works better than another.
>>
>> What can I say.
>>
>>   Paul
>
> Thanks for that info.
>
> I've just had a #2 drive suddenly develop a sticky head. When doing the first bootup of the day, when the disk was spinning up it didn't simply click quietly (as most of my collection of sick hard drives do), but instead gave six alarmingly loud clacks, before stopping and trying to spin up again. Fortunately, if left for a few minutes (presumably till it had warmed up a bit) it sorted itself out, a spun up to speed.
>
> There was one scary moment when I set about cloning it at another hard drive. Despite leaving it for several minutes to spin up, it didn't seem inclined to do so. However, eventually it did, and the cloning went OK.
>
> After putting it aside for a week, just out of interest I decided to try it again - and this time it spun up first time, and has continued to do so. This is what got me thinking about the effects that orientation might have (although this doesn't seem to affect the present spin-ups). X-GSmart shows it 100% error-free (despite many years of service), and for all intents and purposes it looks (and sounds) like a perfectly usable disk.

In the old days, they didn't have head ramps.

Today, there is a plastic thing off to the side of the platters.

"Three platters, six heads, six landing assists for the tab handle near the head"

https://datarecovery.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/IMG_3086_e00_50-1024x768.jpg

And the heads have a thing on the end (a "handle"),
and as the heads move towards the ramp, the handle
rides up the ramp.

This allows the heads to park off the platter.

By using regeneration (run motor as generator), the rotational motion
of the platter provides energy to power the arm/voice coil and move the arm
to the ramp, even on a power failure. The heads hardly ever get
left sitting on the platter (as that would spell doom).

In the old days, the arm would move to a "landing zone" on the platter.
The landing zone didn't have data in it. The spindle
would then drop to zero RPM.

The problem with the old way, was the heads would "stick" (stiction)
to the platter. And no amount of torque modulation would
release them. Users would give the drive a "rap" with something,
to release the heads.

Next, they tried "patterning" the landing zone, so the heads
never sat completely flat on the surface. But that did not
improve the situation enough to be permanently adopted.

Having ramps off to the side of the platter, has made
all the difference.

While the heads are sitting on the ramp, the spindle
has to be brought up to speed. If the spindle is jammed
(bearing failure), the motor driver applies various
electrical signals to try to shake the spindle loose.
To the human ear, these are "musical tones" deedle-dee
type of thing, and that noise tells you the spindle is
having trouble starting. A clicking sound on the other
hand, may be related to voice coil and arm, or even
the arm has been left on the platter surface.
But that's not supposed to happen, and tells you that
there's some other kind of failure there.

Paul

In message <t410j9$4tm$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid>
writes
>On 4/22/2022 2:38 PM, Ian Jackson wrote:
>> In message <t3udee$1bd7$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Paul
>><nospam@needed.invalid> writes
>>> On 4/20/2022 8:29 AM, Ian Jackson wrote:
>>>> In message <t3o4o3$73j$1@dont-email.me>, Brian <noinv@lid.org> writes
>>>>> Graeme <News@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Like many of us, I have at least six old desktop PCs and various other
>>>>>> old hard drives sitting around, and really should see what is on them,
>>>>>> and what needs saving.  I could fire up each one, but even then there is
>>>>>> the problem of moving files.  No USB sockets, and some don't even have a
>>>>>> network card.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looking at adapters such as this, via Amazon :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B096ZQHD3V?pd_rd_i=B096ZQHD3V&pd_rd_w=CVfH8&
>>>>>> pf_rd_p=c5629250-1e5d-4c40-820a-5b1f8689d08d&pd_rd_wg=a3rUu&pf_rd_r=M9DBE
>>>>>> G5DPXNCDYCG81Q3&pd_rd_r=97839ae8-56ff-457b-b4c6-3a02cf306a03>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Seems to accept most hard drives, and provides power as well as data,
>>>>>> ideal to just plug into my laptop via USB to view contents and copy
>>>>>> across if required, or just delete if not.  Do these things work as well
>>>>>> as the blurb suggests?  Any experience?  Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I’ve got a USB 2 to Sata converter which is more of a lead - not
>>>>>really a
>>>>> box. I bought it before USB 3 was available.
>>>>>
>>>>> It certainly works. Fine for checking contents of a stray disk etc. and
>>>>> copying files. Possibly not as quick as it could be etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can also get ones where the drives stand vertically. Often they have 2
>>>>> or 3 slots, perhaps 1 2.5 and 2 3.5, I considered one of those but never
>>>>> bothered.
>>>>>
>>>> On this subject, is there any evidence that there is any difference
>>>>in  constant-use longevity between disks mounted horizontally, and
>>>>those mounted vertically?
>>>
>>> The drive datasheet will tell you it is "six axis compatible".
>>> It can be rotated to compass points, right side up, upside down and
>>> so on. You can rest the drive on its butt-end, like in a Dell or
>>> an HP. (Home built computers do not usually abuse the orientation.)
>>>
>>> Forty five degree angles are not recommended. While it
>>> "still works while sitting on bed covers", the spec doesn't say that.
>>>
>>> However, you may notice when the drive has 20,000 hours on
>>> it, and you're doing data recovery, that one orientation
>>> works better than another.
>>>
>>> What can I say.
>>>
>>>   Paul
>> Thanks for that info.
>> I've just had a #2 drive suddenly develop a sticky head. When doing
>>the first bootup of the day, when the disk was spinning up it didn't
>>simply click quietly (as most of my collection of sick hard drives
>>do), but instead gave six alarmingly loud clacks, before stopping and
>>trying to spin up again. Fortunately, if left for a few minutes
>>(presumably till it had warmed up a bit) it sorted itself out, a spun
>>up to speed.
>> There was one scary moment when I set about cloning it at another
>>hard drive. Despite leaving it for several minutes to spin up, it
>>didn't seem inclined to do so. However, eventually it did, and the
>>cloning went OK.
>> After putting it aside for a week, just out of interest I decided to
>>try it again - and this time it spun up first time, and has continued
>>to do so. This is what got me thinking about the effects that
>>orientation might have (although this doesn't seem to affect the
>>present spin-ups). X-GSmart shows it 100% error-free (despite many
>>years of service), and for all intents and purposes it looks (and
>>sounds) like a perfectly usable disk.
>
>In the old days, they didn't have head ramps.
>
>Today, there is a plastic thing off to the side of the platters.
>
> "Three platters, six heads, six landing assists for the tab handle
>near the head"
>
>
>https://datarecovery.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/IMG_3086_e00_50-1024
>x768.jpg
>
>And the heads have a thing on the end (a "handle"),
>and as the heads move towards the ramp, the handle
>rides up the ramp.
>
>This allows the heads to park off the platter.
>
>By using regeneration (run motor as generator), the rotational motion
>of the platter provides energy to power the arm/voice coil and move the arm
>to the ramp, even on a power failure. The heads hardly ever get
>left sitting on the platter (as that would spell doom).
>
>In the old days, the arm would move to a "landing zone" on the platter.
>The landing zone didn't have data in it. The spindle
>would then drop to zero RPM.
>
>The problem with the old way, was the heads would "stick" (stiction)
>to the platter. And no amount of torque modulation would
>release them. Users would give the drive a "rap" with something,
>to release the heads.
>
>Next, they tried "patterning" the landing zone, so the heads
>never sat completely flat on the surface. But that did not
>improve the situation enough to be permanently adopted.
>
>Having ramps off to the side of the platter, has made
>all the difference.
>
>While the heads are sitting on the ramp, the spindle
>has to be brought up to speed. If the spindle is jammed
>(bearing failure), the motor driver applies various
>electrical signals to try to shake the spindle loose.
>To the human ear, these are "musical tones" deedle-dee
>type of thing, and that noise tells you the spindle is
>having trouble starting.

I have an old disk that is reluctant to spin up, and 'plays a tune'.

>A clicking sound on the other
>hand, may be related to voice coil and arm, or even
>the arm has been left on the platter surface.
>But that's not supposed to happen, and tells you that
>there's some other kind of failure there.
>
> Paul

Thanks for all the interesting information. I've only ever taken two
disks apart, and it amazes me that they can ever work as well as they
do!
--
Ian