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aus+uk / uk.d-i-y / Re: FM aerial performance.

SubjectAuthor
* FM aerial performance.Andrew
+* Re: FM aerial performance.Mark Carver
|+- Re: FM aerial performance.Mark Carver
|`- Re: FM aerial performance.tony sayer
+- Re: FM aerial performance.Martin Brown
`- Re: FM aerial performance.tony sayer

1
FM aerial performance.

<t3pefi$1h4j$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: Andrew97...@mybtinternet.com (Andrew)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: FM aerial performance.
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 18:04:50 +0100
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 by: Andrew - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 17:04 UTC

The FM aerial (that I probably bought at a boot sale) in my
loft and always worked fine with my old Aiwa AX7400. That was
disposed of on 2006 (should have kept it) in favour of an
Onkyo mini system with DAB.

I have always had problems with 'hissy' reception on 92.9MHz
from Rowridge (BBC R4) and recently bought a Denon DRA-455
tuner amp and that really struggles to get stereo FM on any
frequency from Rowridge.

The aerial is a 3 element yagi but the dipole has two separate
arms doubled back in the usual fashion but the ends terminate
with plastic stoppers with a one inch gap separating them.
There are no obvious electronic components where the coax
connects.

After looking at FM dipoles online I notice that they have
all? have a dipole that is continuous, so out of interest
I cleaned the ends of the my FM dipole with wire wool and
joined them together with a few turns of scrap 1mm lighting
cable core.

Result !. FM reception in stereo as good as it gets and
even R3 now has barely any hiss at normal listening volume.

I wonder how the original manufacturer intended it to work?

Maybe it was intended for 300ohm input (which the Denon does
not have) ?. Mystery.

Re: FM aerial performance.

<jcat2aFpk58U2@mid.individual.net>

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From: mark.car...@invalid.invalid (Mark Carver)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: FM aerial performance.
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 18:09:30 +0100
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In-Reply-To: <t3pefi$1h4j$1@gioia.aioe.org>
 by: Mark Carver - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 17:09 UTC

On 20/04/2022 18:04, Andrew wrote:
>
> The aerial is a 3 element yagi but the dipole has two separate
> arms doubled back in the usual fashion but the ends terminate
> with plastic stoppers with a one inch gap separating them.
> There are no obvious electronic components where the coax
> connects.
>
> After looking at FM dipoles online I notice that they have
> all? have a dipole that is continuous, so out of interest
> I cleaned the ends of the my FM dipole with wire wool and
> joined them together with a few turns of scrap 1mm lighting
> cable core.

That was probably a mistake, remove them.

It sounds like an Antiference 'TruMatch' yagi. The two elements are not
supposed to be electrically joined

<https://www.chesterdigitalsupplies.co.uk/antiference-1083t?gclid=Cj0KCQjw3v6SBhCsARIsACyrRAklyyNLYeirRBDEGiZMGwqnl-g1Pq0S6-8m89myW07RtQITq11Sgd8aAgVHEALw_wcB>

Re: FM aerial performance.

<jcat5hFpk58U3@mid.individual.net>

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From: mark.car...@invalid.invalid (Mark Carver)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: FM aerial performance.
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 18:11:13 +0100
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 by: Mark Carver - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 17:11 UTC

On 20/04/2022 18:09, Mark Carver wrote:
> On 20/04/2022 18:04, Andrew wrote:
>>
>> The aerial is a 3 element yagi but the dipole has two separate
>> arms doubled back in the usual fashion but the ends terminate
>> with plastic stoppers with a one inch gap separating them.
>> There are no obvious electronic components where the coax
>> connects.
>>
>> After looking at FM dipoles online I notice that they have
>> all? have a dipole that is continuous, so out of interest
>> I cleaned the ends of the my FM dipole with wire wool and
>> joined them together with a few turns of scrap 1mm lighting
>> cable core.
>
> That was probably a mistake, remove them.
>
> It sounds like an Antiference 'TruMatch' yagi. The two elements are
> not supposed to be electrically joined
>
> <https://www.chesterdigitalsupplies.co.uk/antiference-1083t?gclid=Cj0KCQjw3v6SBhCsARIsACyrRAklyyNLYeirRBDEGiZMGwqnl-g1Pq0S6-8m89myW07RtQITq11Sgd8aAgVHEALw_wcB>
>

I pushed send too quickly, maybe don't remove them if it works better !

Re: FM aerial performance.

<t3ppqd$124u$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: '''newsp...@nonad.co.uk (Martin Brown)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: FM aerial performance.
Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2022 21:18:20 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Martin Brown - Wed, 20 Apr 2022 20:18 UTC

On 20/04/2022 18:04, Andrew wrote:
> The FM aerial (that I probably bought at a boot sale) in my
> loft and always worked fine with my old Aiwa AX7400. That was
> disposed of on 2006 (should have kept it) in favour of an
> Onkyo mini system with DAB.
>
> I have always had problems with 'hissy' reception on 92.9MHz
> from Rowridge (BBC R4) and recently bought a Denon DRA-455
> tuner amp and that really struggles to get stereo FM on any
> frequency from Rowridge.
>
> The aerial is a 3 element yagi but the dipole has two separate
> arms doubled back in the usual fashion but the ends terminate
> with plastic stoppers with a one inch gap separating them.
> There are no obvious electronic components where the coax
> connects.
>
> After looking at FM dipoles online I notice that they have
> all? have a dipole that is continuous, so out of interest
> I cleaned the ends of the my FM dipole with wire wool and
> joined them together with a few turns of scrap 1mm lighting
> cable core.

By sheer luck you must have used about the right amount of wire.

The conventional way to connect a nominally 300 ohm folded dipole to 75
ohm coax cable is with a balun although in strong signal areas you can
get away without. The "feeding" a dipole diagram part way down.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipole_antenna#Folded_dipole

> Result !. FM reception in stereo as good as it gets and
> even R3 now has barely any hiss at normal listening volume.
>
> I wonder how the original manufacturer intended it to work?

> Maybe it was intended for 300ohm input (which the Denon does
> not have) ?. Mystery.

It was nominally for 300 ohm ribbon feed. You need a balun transformer
to turn earthed coax with hot core into a symmetric balanced feed.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Re: FM aerial performance.

<DdKjptJxnxYiFwDx@bancom.co.uk>

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From: ton...@bancom.co.uk (tony sayer)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: FM aerial performance.
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 22:11:13 +0100
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 by: tony sayer - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 21:11 UTC

In article <t3pefi$1h4j$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Andrew <Andrew97d-
junk@mybtinternet.com> scribeth thus
>The FM aerial (that I probably bought at a boot sale) in my
>loft and always worked fine with my old Aiwa AX7400. That was
>disposed of on 2006 (should have kept it) in favour of an
>Onkyo mini system with DAB.
>
>I have always had problems with 'hissy' reception on 92.9MHz
>from Rowridge (BBC R4) and recently bought a Denon DRA-455
>tuner amp and that really struggles to get stereo FM on any
>frequency from Rowridge.
>
>The aerial is a 3 element yagi but the dipole has two separate
>arms doubled back in the usual fashion but the ends terminate
>with plastic stoppers with a one inch gap separating them.
>There are no obvious electronic components where the coax
>connects.
>
>After looking at FM dipoles online I notice that they have
>all? have a dipole that is continuous, so out of interest
>I cleaned the ends of the my FM dipole with wire wool and
>joined them together with a few turns of scrap 1mm lighting
>cable core.
>
>Result !. FM reception in stereo as good as it gets and
>even R3 now has barely any hiss at normal listening volume.
>
>I wonder how the original manufacturer intended it to work?
>
>Maybe it was intended for 300ohm input (which the Denon does
>not have) ?. Mystery.

That sounds all rather odd, any chance of posting a picture
somewhere?...
--
Tony Sayer

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

Re: FM aerial performance.

<OdSgp7JRvxYiFwC9@bancom.co.uk>

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From: ton...@bancom.co.uk (tony sayer)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: FM aerial performance.
Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2022 22:19:13 +0100
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 by: tony sayer - Fri, 22 Apr 2022 21:19 UTC

In article <jcat2aFpk58U2@mid.individual.net>, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> scribeth thus
>On 20/04/2022 18:04, Andrew wrote:
>>
>> The aerial is a 3 element yagi but the dipole has two separate
>> arms doubled back in the usual fashion but the ends terminate
>> with plastic stoppers with a one inch gap separating them.
>> There are no obvious electronic components where the coax
>> connects.
>>
>> After looking at FM dipoles online I notice that they have
>> all? have a dipole that is continuous, so out of interest
>> I cleaned the ends of the my FM dipole with wire wool and
>> joined them together with a few turns of scrap 1mm lighting
>> cable core.
>
>That was probably a mistake, remove them.
>
>It sounds like an Antiference 'TruMatch' yagi. The two elements are not
>supposed to be electrically joined
>
><https://www.chesterdigitalsupplies.co.uk/antiference-1083t?gclid=Cj0KCQjw3v6SBh
>CsARIsACyrRAklyyNLYeirRBDEGiZMGwqnl-g1Pq0S6-8m89myW07RtQITq11Sgd8aAgVHEALw_wcB>
>

Must get around to modelling that in NEC to see if it widens the
bandwidth at all which i expect it doesn't!.

Making a couple of FUBA UK-8 FM stereo aerials now look the bloody great
big arrows with that dual reflector, had one years ago till a storm took
the mast it was on down, bloody excellent performing aerial!.

One here on a rotator!..

https://goo.gl/maps/buUEt3jAUguPAKM98
--
Tony Sayer

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

1
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