https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/09/toyota-finally-gets-serious-about-evs-announces-13-6-billion-battery-plan/

On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 15:47:32 +1000, keithr0 wrote:

> https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/09/toyota-finally-gets-serious-about-evs-announces-13-6-billion-battery-plan/

It's about time that Mitsubishi had some competition for "Ugliest Thing On
The Road".

They should just be honest and name it 'Fugly'.

alvey

On 9/09/2021 3:47 pm, keithr0 wrote:

> https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/09/toyota-finally-gets-serious-about-evs-announces-13-6-billion-battery-plan/

Nice. I suspect their range of Hybrids will eventually be phased out.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 9/9/21 5:35 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 9/09/2021 3:47 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>
>> https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/09/toyota-finally-gets-serious-about-evs-announces-13-6-billion-battery-plan/
>
>
> Nice. I suspect their range of Hybrids will eventually be phased out.
>
I expect their range of hybrids to include a fuel cell ICE if fossil
fueled ICEs are phased out.

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 9/9/21 3:47 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/09/toyota-finally-gets-serious-about-evs-announces-13-6-billion-battery-plan/
>

Not a surprise, after all their business is making and selling cars and
they would be silly to miss out on a share of the EV market.
More than likely they will dominate the market.

--
Daryl

On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 15:47:32 +1000, keithr0 posted:-

> https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/09/toyota-finally-gets-serious-about-evs-announces-13-6-billion-battery-plan/

Toyota have the cash reserves to do that, wonder are they dropping
hydrogen?

On 9/9/21 5:35 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 9/09/2021 3:47 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>
>> https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/09/toyota-finally-gets-serious-about-evs-announces-13-6-billion-battery-plan/
>
>
> Nice. I suspect their range of Hybrids will eventually be phased out.
>

My sister bought a new Corolla hybrid, stuffed if I know why when she
lives 200km from a major city where there is rarely any traffic to speak
of which is when the hybrid does its thing.
I spoke to her recently and asked how often it runs on its battery and
she couldn't tell me except that its quiet when reversing out of her
garage:-)
At least the hybrid is only $2k extra so no big deal financially.
In the real world my wife's Golf is just as economical and it cost us
$15k less than the new $40k top of the range Corolla.

--
Daryl

On 9/9/21 3:47 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/09/toyota-finally-gets-serious-about-evs-announces-13-6-billion-battery-plan/
>

The article intimates that Toyota is *behind the 8 ball* when it comes
to BEVs as if they hadn't been doing anything with batteries at all. The
reality is that Toyota has a lot of experience in the battery space.
After all, every single hybrid sold has a *drive battery* in it along
with a control system to cope with drive power distribution and
regeneration. What is more, they have lots of experience in the matching
and balancing of ICE and Electric drive trains. The PHEV was a *logical
step* along the road to full BEVs. All they really did there was install
a larger battery and drive motor along with an on board charging system.
All Toyota needs to work on, in order to move to BEVs, is an even larger
battery and dumping the ICE and synergy drive. About all that would
entail is even more more robust electrical components than are currently
fitted to the PHEVs.

It is quite obvious that all Toyota's efforts in the hybrid space will
not be wasted in any transition to full BEVs. As I have said in the
past, hybrids are a logical transition phase and, given the popularity
of Toyota hybrids, the motoring public seem to think so as well.

I mentioned, in another post, that the hybrid is the perfect fit for a
fuel cell to replace the ICE engine and associated synergy drive. Toyota
already has a fuel cell vehicle for sale, the Mirai, so that aspect of
development is already complete.

What would such a beast look like? Well, here is a probable candidate in
schematic form.

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/e-Schematic-diagram-of-the-proposed-hybrid-drive-train-consisting-of-the-ethanol_fig1_332957225

The best part of the above is that you can have a battery that can be
charged up from external sources or regenerative braking. Alternatively,
it can be fed compressed hydrogen from a storage tank or an ethanol tank
with associated reformer. Looks like it would require 2 types of fuel
cells but that wouldn't be an issue in the heavy transport space. I see
only two issues with this arrangement, one having to do with the way
fuel cells operate and the fact that their efficiency drops right off
after the ~70% load mark, and the hybrid battery operation and
*discharge* under full load conditions such as would be found in long
distance heavy haulage use.

As I see it, the ICE doesn't stand much of a chance in the future,
either in fossil fuelled form or hydrogen fuelled form.

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 9/9/21 7:03 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 9/9/21 3:47 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/09/toyota-finally-gets-serious-about-evs-announces-13-6-billion-battery-plan/
>>
>
>
> Not a surprise, after all their business is making and selling cars and
> they would be silly to miss out on a share of the EV market.
> More than likely they will dominate the market.
>
They do now in the petrol fuelled space.

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 9/9/21 7:12 pm, Mountain Magpie wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 15:47:32 +1000, keithr0 posted:-
>
>> https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/09/toyota-finally-gets-serious-about-evs-announces-13-6-billion-battery-plan/
>
> Toyota have the cash reserves to do that, wonder are they dropping
> hydrogen?
>
>
I doubt it. Fuel cells are a logical follow on from ICE hybrids for
those who suffer range anxiety. I expect to see fuel cell hybrids in the
near future. All that is currently missing is the support
infrastructure. Current Govt' isn't too flash on putting *incentives* in
place for such investment.

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 9/9/21 7:13 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 9/9/21 5:35 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 9/09/2021 3:47 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>
>>> https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/09/toyota-finally-gets-serious-about-evs-announces-13-6-billion-battery-plan/
>>
>>
>>
>> Nice. I suspect their range of Hybrids will eventually be phased out.
>>
>
> My sister bought a new Corolla hybrid, stuffed if I know why when she
> lives 200km from a major city where there is rarely any traffic to speak
> of which is when the hybrid does its thing.
> I spoke to her recently and asked how often it runs on its battery and
> she couldn't tell me except that its quiet when reversing out of her
> garage:-)
> At least the hybrid is only $2k extra so no big deal financially.
> In the real world my wife's Golf is just as economical and it cost us
> $15k less than the new $40k top of the range Corolla.
>

I'd rather have the Corolla thanks!

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)