First some background so you understand the overall problem.

I recently changed the wheels ( rims / tyres) on our Ducato based
motorhome, as part of an up plating process.

The person who fitted the wheels for me ( actually the technician who added
the air suspension) used a torque wrench to get the right torque - 160 Nm
(correct for the stud size)

He advised checking the tightness after a ‘good run’ as the rims were new.
Sensible advice.

I used an extending wheel brace I carry - I keep on in all our cars, more
for my wife as she is quite small. While there was no sign of the nuts
having come loose, the end of the brace broke, the part where there is a
ball bearing to hold the socket.

This makes me wonder just how practical it is to use a brace at the road
side. I’ve looked at various breaker bars on EBay / Amazon etc. - 600mm
long to give the leverage - but the weak point seems to be the ‘head’.
None of them look that robust.

I can’t believe Fiat expect people to carry a torque wrench and/ or an
impact wrench. What am I missing?

In article <t0iaur$p6q$1@dont-email.me>,
Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote:
> This makes me wonder just how practical it is to use a brace at the road
> side. I‘ve looked at various breaker bars on EBay / Amazon etc. - 600mm
> long to give the leverage - but the weak point seems to be the head‘.
> None of them look that robust.

The type where the head swivels tend to be the weakest. Best are those
where the main bar is bent through 90 degrees or so. Not so flexible, but
doubt you'd break that easily.

--
*Money isn't everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <t0iaur$p6q$1@dont-email.me>,
> Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote:
>> This makes me wonder just how practical it is to use a brace at the road
>> side. I‘ve looked at various breaker bars on EBay / Amazon etc. - 600mm
>> long to give the leverage - but the weak point seems to be the head‘.
>> None of them look that robust.
>
> The type where the head swivels tend to be the weakest. Best are those
> where the main bar is bent through 90 degrees or so. Not so flexible, but
> doubt you'd break that easily.
>

That was my conclusion.

However, I can’t find any long ones ( longer that 10” / 250mm) which don’t
have swivel heads- at least that aren’t extendable. ( After my experience
with the extendable one, I’m dubious re their quality.)

I have considered a battery impact driver - I have an air driven one I can
use with my compressor at home- but ensuring it is always charged is a
concern.

I must admit, if I get a puncture in the MH, I’d probably call out the RAC.
Jacking up a vehicle weighing over 3.5 T with a scissor jack isn’t my idea
of fun, especially on the hard shoulder.
However, at busy times, that could mean a long wait.

On 12/03/2022 20:18, Brian wrote:
> Dave Plowman (News) <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>> In article <t0iaur$p6q$1@dont-email.me>,
>> Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote:
>>> This makes me wonder just how practical it is to use a brace at the road
>>> side. I‘ve looked at various breaker bars on EBay / Amazon etc. - 600mm
>>> long to give the leverage - but the weak point seems to be the head‘.
>>> None of them look that robust.
>>
>> The type where the head swivels tend to be the weakest. Best are those
>> where the main bar is bent through 90 degrees or so. Not so flexible, but
>> doubt you'd break that easily.
>>
>
> That was my conclusion.
>
> However, I can’t find any long ones ( longer that 10” / 250mm) which don’t
> have swivel heads- at least that aren’t extendable. ( After my experience
> with the extendable one, I’m dubious re their quality.)
>
> I have considered a battery impact driver - I have an air driven one I can
> use with my compressor at home- but ensuring it is always charged is a
> concern.
>
> I must admit, if I get a puncture in the MH, I’d probably call out the RAC.
> Jacking up a vehicle weighing over 3.5 T with a scissor jack isn’t my idea
> of fun, especially on the hard shoulder.
> However, at busy times, that could mean a long wait.
>
>
>
I have one of the "bent" ones for my Renault Master horsebox. Lidl had
cordless impact drivers for cars last week; I decided I didn't really
need one.

On 12/03/2022 14:32, Brian wrote:
>
> First some background so you understand the overall problem.
>
> I recently changed the wheels ( rims / tyres) on our Ducato based
> motorhome, as part of an up plating process.
>
> The person who fitted the wheels for me ( actually the technician who added
> the air suspension) used a torque wrench to get the right torque - 160 Nm
> (correct for the stud size)
>
> He advised checking the tightness after a ‘good run’ as the rims were new.
> Sensible advice.
>
> I used an extending wheel brace I carry - I keep on in all our cars, more
> for my wife as she is quite small. While there was no sign of the nuts
> having come loose, the end of the brace broke, the part where there is a
> ball bearing to hold the socket.
>
> This makes me wonder just how practical it is to use a brace at the road
> side. I’ve looked at various breaker bars on EBay / Amazon etc. - 600mm
> long to give the leverage - but the weak point seems to be the ‘head’.
> None of them look that robust.
>
> I can’t believe Fiat expect people to carry a torque wrench and/ or an
> impact wrench. What am I missing?
>

This sort of thing
https://www.halfords.com/tools/hand-tools/spanners-and-wrenches/halfords-extending-wheel-nut-wrench-635236.html
is usually ok.

The idea is that you tighten up the nuts without extending it, but
extend it to get extra leverage when undoing them.

Landrover went a step further and supplied a folding wheel wrench which
only worked unfolded in the undo direction but had to be used folded
when tightening the nuts, to prevent over-tightening.

I don't have a motorhome, but I do carry an 18v impact wrench and a
torque wrench in my car.

--
Cheers,
Roger

On 12/03/2022 22:49, Roger Mills wrote:
> On 12/03/2022 14:32, Brian wrote:
>>
>> First some background so you understand the overall problem.
>>
>> I recently changed the wheels ( rims / tyres) on our Ducato based
>> motorhome, as part of an up plating process.
>>
>> The person who fitted the wheels for me ( actually the technician who added
>> the air suspension) used a torque wrench to get the right torque - 160 Nm
>> (correct for the stud size)
>>
>> He advised checking the tightness after a ‘good run’ as the rims were new.
>> Sensible advice.
>>
>> I used an extending wheel brace I carry - I keep on in all our cars, more
>> for my wife as she is quite small. While there was no sign of the nuts
>> having come loose, the end of the brace broke, the part where there is a
>> ball bearing to hold the socket.
>>
>> This makes me wonder just how practical it is to use a brace at the road
>> side. I’ve looked at various breaker bars on EBay / Amazon etc. - 600mm
>> long to give the leverage - but the weak point seems to be the ‘head’.
>> None of them look that robust.
>>
>> I can’t believe Fiat expect people to carry a torque wrench and/ or an
>> impact wrench. What am I missing?
>>
>
> This sort of thing
> https://www.halfords.com/tools/hand-tools/spanners-and-wrenches/halfords-extending-wheel-nut-wrench-635236.html
> is usually ok.
>
> The idea is that you tighten up the nuts without extending it, but extend
> it to get extra leverage when undoing them.

I have one of those, possibly not Halfords, but cheaper than a proper
breaker bar and fits by the spare wheel. The extender tube will not take a
huge torque, but should help a small person. Athome, in collapsed mode with
a scaffold pole over it will take some torque.

Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 12/03/2022 14:32, Brian wrote:
>>
>> First some background so you understand the overall problem.
>>
>> I recently changed the wheels ( rims / tyres) on our Ducato based
>> motorhome, as part of an up plating process.
>>
>> The person who fitted the wheels for me ( actually the technician who added
>> the air suspension) used a torque wrench to get the right torque - 160 Nm
>> (correct for the stud size)
>>
>> He advised checking the tightness after a ‘good run’ as the rims were new.
>> Sensible advice.
>>
>> I used an extending wheel brace I carry - I keep on in all our cars, more
>> for my wife as she is quite small. While there was no sign of the nuts
>> having come loose, the end of the brace broke, the part where there is a
>> ball bearing to hold the socket.
>>
>> This makes me wonder just how practical it is to use a brace at the road
>> side. I’ve looked at various breaker bars on EBay / Amazon etc. - 600mm
>> long to give the leverage - but the weak point seems to be the ‘head’.
>> None of them look that robust.
>>
>> I can’t believe Fiat expect people to carry a torque wrench and/ or an
>> impact wrench. What am I missing?
>>
>
> This sort of thing
> https://www.halfords.com/tools/hand-tools/spanners-and-wrenches/halfords-extending-wheel-nut-wrench-635236.html
>
> is usually ok.

That is exactly like the one I broke ;-)
>
> The idea is that you tighten up the nuts without extending it, but
> extend it to get extra leverage when undoing them.

I normally do exactly that. This time, as I wanted ‘more welly’, I used it
extended to check they were still tight. That was probably the mistake.

>
> Landrover went a step further and supplied a folding wheel wrench which
> only worked unfolded in the undo direction but had to be used folded
> when tightening the nuts, to prevent over-tightening.
>
> I don't have a motorhome, but I do carry an 18v impact wrench and a
> torque wrench in my car.
>

I have a torque wrench although I’m not sure it goes to 160 Nm.

On 13/03/2022 09:28, Brian wrote:
> Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 12/03/2022 14:32, Brian wrote:
>>>
>>> First some background so you understand the overall problem.
>>>
>>> I recently changed the wheels ( rims / tyres) on our Ducato based
>>> motorhome, as part of an up plating process.
>>>
>>> The person who fitted the wheels for me ( actually the technician who added
>>> the air suspension) used a torque wrench to get the right torque - 160 Nm
>>> (correct for the stud size)
>>>
>>> He advised checking the tightness after a ‘good run’ as the rims were new.
>>> Sensible advice.
>>>
>>> I used an extending wheel brace I carry - I keep on in all our cars, more
>>> for my wife as she is quite small. While there was no sign of the nuts
>>> having come loose, the end of the brace broke, the part where there is a
>>> ball bearing to hold the socket.
>>>
>>> This makes me wonder just how practical it is to use a brace at the road
>>> side. I’ve looked at various breaker bars on EBay / Amazon etc. - 600mm
>>> long to give the leverage - but the weak point seems to be the ‘head’.
>>> None of them look that robust.
>>>
>>> I can’t believe Fiat expect people to carry a torque wrench and/ or an
>>> impact wrench. What am I missing?
>>>
>>
>> This sort of thing
>> https://www.halfords.com/tools/hand-tools/spanners-and-wrenches/halfords-extending-wheel-nut-wrench-635236.html
>>
>> is usually ok.
>
> That is exactly like the one I broke ;-)
>>
>> The idea is that you tighten up the nuts without extending it, but
>> extend it to get extra leverage when undoing them.
>
> I normally do exactly that. This time, as I wanted ‘more welly’, I used it
> extended to check they were still tight. That was probably the mistake.
>

How much force did you apply? 160 Nm on that bar requires about 35 kg
on the end. So if e.g. you tried the traditional jump-on-the-end
technique ... :)

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Nick Finnigan <Nix@genie.co.uk> wrote:
> On 12/03/2022 22:49, Roger Mills wrote:
>> On 12/03/2022 14:32, Brian wrote:
>>>
>>> First some background so you understand the overall problem.
>>>
>>> I recently changed the wheels ( rims / tyres) on our Ducato based
>>> motorhome, as part of an up plating process.
>>>
>>> The person who fitted the wheels for me ( actually the technician who added
>>> the air suspension) used a torque wrench to get the right torque - 160 Nm
>>> (correct for the stud size)
>>>
>>> He advised checking the tightness after a ‘good run’ as the rims were new.
>>> Sensible advice.
>>>
>>> I used an extending wheel brace I carry - I keep on in all our cars, more
>>> for my wife as she is quite small. While there was no sign of the nuts
>>> having come loose, the end of the brace broke, the part where there is a
>>> ball bearing to hold the socket.
>>>
>>> This makes me wonder just how practical it is to use a brace at the road
>>> side. I’ve looked at various breaker bars on EBay / Amazon etc. - 600mm
>>> long to give the leverage - but the weak point seems to be the ‘head’.
>>> None of them look that robust.
>>>
>>> I can’t believe Fiat expect people to carry a torque wrench and/ or an
>>> impact wrench. What am I missing?
>>>
>>
>> This sort of thing
>> https://www.halfords.com/tools/hand-tools/spanners-and-wrenches/halfords-extending-wheel-nut-wrench-635236.html
>>
>> is usually ok.
>>
>> The idea is that you tighten up the nuts without extending it, but extend
>> it to get extra leverage when undoing them.
>
> I have one of those, possibly not Halfords, but cheaper than a proper
> breaker bar and fits by the spare wheel. The extender tube will not take a
> huge torque, but should help a small person. Athome, in collapsed mode with
> a scaffold pole over it will take some torque.
>

It wasn’t the extending bit which failed.

Where the 1/2 square part is, there is a ball bearing. It failed there. The
tip, the last 1/4”, twisted off.

It is possible I hadn’t fully engaged the the drive in the socket - I was
using the double one, which in retrospect was probably the mistake.

On 12/03/2022 14:32, Brian wrote:
>
> First some background so you understand the overall problem.
>
> I recently changed the wheels ( rims / tyres) on our Ducato based
> motorhome, as part of an up plating process.
>
> The person who fitted the wheels for me ( actually the technician who added
> the air suspension) used a torque wrench to get the right torque - 160 Nm
> (correct for the stud size)
>
> He advised checking the tightness after a ‘good run’ as the rims were new.
> Sensible advice.
>
> I used an extending wheel brace I carry - I keep on in all our cars, more
> for my wife as she is quite small. While there was no sign of the nuts
> having come loose, the end of the brace broke, the part where there is a
> ball bearing to hold the socket.
>
> This makes me wonder just how practical it is to use a brace at the road
> side. I’ve looked at various breaker bars on EBay / Amazon etc. - 600mm
> long to give the leverage - but the weak point seems to be the ‘head’.
> None of them look that robust.
>
> I can’t believe Fiat expect people to carry a torque wrench and/ or an
> impact wrench. What am I missing?
>

I suggest you stop using 1/2" car stuff and upgrade to 3/4" truck kit.

Peter Hill <skyshac@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On 12/03/2022 14:32, Brian wrote:
>>
>> First some background so you understand the overall problem.
>>
>> I recently changed the wheels ( rims / tyres) on our Ducato based
>> motorhome, as part of an up plating process.
>>
>> The person who fitted the wheels for me ( actually the technician who added
>> the air suspension) used a torque wrench to get the right torque - 160 Nm
>> (correct for the stud size)
>>
>> He advised checking the tightness after a ‘good run’ as the rims were new.
>> Sensible advice.
>>
>> I used an extending wheel brace I carry - I keep on in all our cars, more
>> for my wife as she is quite small. While there was no sign of the nuts
>> having come loose, the end of the brace broke, the part where there is a
>> ball bearing to hold the socket.
>>
>> This makes me wonder just how practical it is to use a brace at the road
>> side. I’ve looked at various breaker bars on EBay / Amazon etc. - 600mm
>> long to give the leverage - but the weak point seems to be the ‘head’.
>> None of them look that robust.
>>
>> I can’t believe Fiat expect people to carry a torque wrench and/ or an
>> impact wrench. What am I missing?
>>
>
> I suggest you stop using 1/2" car stuff and upgrade to 3/4" truck kit.
>

I didn’t think I was such a brute ;-)

In article <j94mcaFciobU1@mid.individual.net>, Roger Mills
<mills37.fslife@gmail.com> scribeth thus
>On 12/03/2022 14:32, Brian wrote:
>>
>> First some background so you understand the overall problem.
>>
>> I recently changed the wheels ( rims / tyres) on our Ducato based
>> motorhome, as part of an up plating process.
>>
>> The person who fitted the wheels for me ( actually the technician who added
>> the air suspension) used a torque wrench to get the right torque - 160 Nm
>> (correct for the stud size)
>>
>> He advised checking the tightness after a ‘good run’ as the rims were new.
>> Sensible advice.
>>
>> I used an extending wheel brace I carry - I keep on in all our cars, more
>> for my wife as she is quite small. While there was no sign of the nuts
>> having come loose, the end of the brace broke, the part where there is a
>> ball bearing to hold the socket.
>>
>> This makes me wonder just how practical it is to use a brace at the road
>> side. I’ve looked at various breaker bars on EBay / Amazon etc. - 600mm
>> long to give the leverage - but the weak point seems to be the ‘head’.
>> None of them look that robust.
>>
>> I can’t believe Fiat expect people to carry a torque wrench and/ or an
>> impact wrench. What am I missing?
>>
>
>This sort of thing
>https://www.halfords.com/tools/hand-tools/spanners-and-wrenches/halfords-
>extending-wheel-nut-wrench-635236.html
>is usually ok.
>
>The idea is that you tighten up the nuts without extending it, but
>extend it to get extra leverage when undoing them.
>
>Landrover went a step further and supplied a folding wheel wrench which
>only worked unfolded in the undo direction but had to be used folded
>when tightening the nuts, to prevent over-tightening.
>
>I don't have a motorhome, but I do carry an 18v impact wrench and a
>torque wrench in my car.
>

Screwfix have them as well as machine mart...

https://www.screwfix.com/p/rac-telescopic-wheel-wrench-17-19mm/7182R?tc=
ET6&ds_kid=92700055262507126&ds_rl=1244066&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI2vGH1JfD9gI
Vj-7tCh3nQgoDEAQYASABEgIzZfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Or part number (7182R)
--
Tony Sayer

Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

In article <t0iv62$vn4$1@dont-email.me>,
Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote:
> I have considered a battery impact driver - I have an air driven one I can
> use with my compressor at home- but ensuring it is always charged is a
> concern.

Ages ago, I got an impact driver which runs off the car battery. Large -
the size of a mains drill. It spins up to speed then whacks the nut round.
Develops a lot more torque with that bash than most impact drivers. Says
it will undo 250 ft.lb. Wasn't that pricey, either.

--
*Proofread carefully to see if you any words out or mispeld something *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 13/03/2022 12:26, Peter Hill wrote:
> On 12/03/2022 14:32, Brian wrote:
>>
>> First some background so you understand the overall problem.
>>
>> I recently changed the wheels ( rims / tyres) on our Ducato based
>> motorhome, as part of an up plating process.
>>
>> The person who fitted the wheels for me ( actually the technician who
>> added
>> the air suspension) used a torque wrench to get the right torque - 160 Nm
>> (correct for the stud size)
>>
>> He advised checking the tightness after a ‘good run’ as the rims were
>> new.
>> Sensible advice.
>>
>> I used an extending wheel brace I carry - I keep on in all our cars, more
>> for my wife as she is quite small. While there was no sign of the nuts
>> having come loose, the end of the brace broke, the part where there is a
>> ball bearing to hold the socket.
>>
>> This makes me wonder just how practical it is to use a brace at the road
>> side. I’ve looked at various breaker bars on EBay / Amazon etc. - 600mm
>> long to give the leverage - but the weak point seems to be the ‘head’.
>> None of them look that robust.
>>
>> I can’t believe Fiat expect people to carry a torque wrench and/ or an
>> impact wrench. What am I missing?
>>
>
> I suggest you stop using 1/2" car stuff and upgrade to 3/4" truck kit.

Just buy decent quality 1/2 inch stuff and he will be fine. What he
bought was cheap rubbish. Ex MOT tester neighbour has a bar nearly
3 foot long with a swivel end, and sometimes when removing a wheel
that a Kwikfit fitter belted on with a air-impact driver needs all
his strength on a bar that long.

Andrew <Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com> wrote:
> On 13/03/2022 12:26, Peter Hill wrote:
>> On 12/03/2022 14:32, Brian wrote:
>>>
>>> First some background so you understand the overall problem.
>>>
>>> I recently changed the wheels ( rims / tyres) on our Ducato based
>>> motorhome, as part of an up plating process.
>>>
>>> The person who fitted the wheels for me ( actually the technician who
>>> added
>>> the air suspension) used a torque wrench to get the right torque - 160 Nm
>>> (correct for the stud size)
>>>
>>> He advised checking the tightness after a ‘good run’ as the rims were
>>> new.
>>> Sensible advice.
>>>
>>> I used an extending wheel brace I carry - I keep on in all our cars, more
>>> for my wife as she is quite small. While there was no sign of the nuts
>>> having come loose, the end of the brace broke, the part where there is a
>>> ball bearing to hold the socket.
>>>
>>> This makes me wonder just how practical it is to use a brace at the road
>>> side. I’ve looked at various breaker bars on EBay / Amazon etc. - 600mm
>>> long to give the leverage - but the weak point seems to be the ‘head’.
>>> None of them look that robust.
>>>
>>> I can’t believe Fiat expect people to carry a torque wrench and/ or an
>>> impact wrench. What am I missing?
>>>
>>
>> I suggest you stop using 1/2" car stuff and upgrade to 3/4" truck kit.
>
> Just buy decent quality 1/2 inch stuff and he will be fine. What he
> bought was cheap rubbish. Ex MOT tester neighbour has a bar nearly
> 3 foot long with a swivel end, and sometimes when removing a wheel
> that a Kwikfit fitter belted on with a air-impact driver needs all
> his strength on a bar that long.
>

As I recall, it wasn’t that cheap but …

Looking at the bit which failed, I suspect I may not have fully engaged the
1/2 square part in the hole.

I used one of those double ended sockets which has the drive part in the
middle. That stops you seeing the drive is pushed home.

I’ve ordered another design and will carry a ‘proper’ socket. I will need
one for the trailer anyway.