I've always noticed the things people do with their numberplates to make them to make them look like words etc - changing the spacing and putting strategically placed black or white bolts in.

I'm now starting to notice the number of vehicles with blue lights on them and this prompted me to wonder if they are actually illegal - or is it just if they flash that they're illegal - unless on an emergency vehicle?

On 02/05/2022 18:35, Murmansk wrote:
> I've always noticed the things people do with their numberplates to make them to make them look like words etc - changing the spacing and putting strategically placed black or white bolts in.
>
> I'm now starting to notice the number of vehicles with blue lights on them and this prompted me to wonder if they are actually illegal - or is it just if they flash that they're illegal - unless on an emergency vehicle?

Just be grateful for idiots :) If the Police are looking for someone to
stop the people with illegal number plates or lights are going to be the
ones they pick, rather than you :)

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 18:35:53 UTC+1, Murmansk wrote:
> I'm now starting to notice the number of vehicles with blue lights on them and this prompted me
> to wonder if they are actually illegal - or is it just if they flash that they're illegal - unless
> on an emergency vehicle?

AIUI:

They're illegal if they light up.
They're illegal if they don't light up, as MOT roadworthiness requires all lights on a vehicle to be functioning.

Owain

Owain Lastname <spuorgelgoog@gowanhill.com> wrote:
> On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 18:35:53 UTC+1, Murmansk wrote:
>> I'm now starting to notice the number of vehicles with blue lights on
>> them and this prompted me
>> to wonder if they are actually illegal - or is it just if they flash
>> that they're illegal - unless
>> on an emergency vehicle?
>
> AIUI:
>
> They're illegal if they light up.
> They're illegal if they don't light up, as MOT roadworthiness requires
> all lights on a vehicle to be functioning.

I imagine that would only apply to manufacturer fitted lights and also only
apply to “driving lights”, not ornamental ones.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 8:26:38 PM UTC+1, Tim+ wrote:
> Owain Lastname <spuorg...@gowanhill.com> wrote:
> > On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 18:35:53 UTC+1, Murmansk wrote:
> >> I'm now starting to notice the number of vehicles with blue lights on
> >> them and this prompted me
> >> to wonder if they are actually illegal - or is it just if they flash
> >> that they're illegal - unless
> >> on an emergency vehicle?
> >
> > AIUI:
> >
> > They're illegal if they light up.
> > They're illegal if they don't light up, as MOT roadworthiness requires
> > all lights on a vehicle to be functioning.
> I imagine that would only apply to manufacturer fitted lights and also only
> apply to “driving lights”, not ornamental ones.
>
> Tim
>
> --
> Please don't feed the trolls
Near a bend beside houses on my way home someone installed something blue and reflective. At first glance it looks like a police car is sat there. Great thinking by the house-owner.

"Tim+" <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:288406271.673212301.470902.tim.downie-gmail.com@news.individual.net...
> Owain Lastname <spuorgelgoog@gowanhill.com> wrote:
>> On Monday, 2 May 2022 at 18:35:53 UTC+1, Murmansk wrote:
>>> I'm now starting to notice the number of vehicles with blue lights on
>>> them and this prompted me
>>> to wonder if they are actually illegal - or is it just if they flash
>>> that they're illegal - unless
>>> on an emergency vehicle?
>>
>> AIUI:
>>
>> They're illegal if they light up.
>> They're illegal if they don't light up, as MOT roadworthiness requires
>> all lights on a vehicle to be functioning.
>
> I imagine that would only apply to manufacturer fitted lights and also
> only
> apply to “driving lights”, not ornamental ones.

I would imagine that floodlights on an emergency vehicle for illuminating
the scene of an accident are probably not required *by law* to work, but
they will be tested frequently to make sure they will be able to do their
job.

Was the bulb tested in a combined tail light / side light accessory, clamped
in a car's window, and powered off the cigarette lighter, as a parking
light? I suppose if the bulb had blown and you hadn't had chance to replace
it, you'd just hide the light in the glovebox ;-)

"misterroy" <rgdavidson@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e17269c8-3033-4255-a711-64d3c7906250n@googlegroups.com...
> Near a bend beside houses on my way home someone installed something blue
> and reflective. At first glance it looks like a police car is sat there.
> Great thinking by the house-owner.

I'm surprised that the illuminated "placards" that some HGV drivers have on
the rear wall of the cab are legal, given that they display various colours
in a pattern (eg a football team's logo) to all oncoming vehicles. In
particular, the blue LEDs give the same "this is a police car" first
impression.

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> "misterroy" <rgdavidson@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e17269c8-3033-4255-a711-64d3c7906250n@googlegroups.com...
>> Near a bend beside houses on my way home someone installed something blue
>> and reflective. At first glance it looks like a police car is sat there.
>> Great thinking by the house-owner.
>
> I'm surprised that the illuminated "placards" that some HGV drivers have on
> the rear wall of the cab are legal, given that they display various colours
> in a pattern (eg a football team's logo) to all oncoming vehicles. In
> particular, the blue LEDs give the same "this is a police car" first
> impression.
>
>

But they don’t flash, an important distinction.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 02/05/2022 18:35, Murmansk wrote:
> I've always noticed the things people do with their numberplates to make them to make them look like words etc - changing the spacing and putting strategically placed black or white bolts in.
>
> I'm now starting to notice the number of vehicles with blue lights on them and this prompted me to wonder if they are actually illegal - or is it just if they flash that they're illegal - unless on an emergency vehicle?

For the purposes of the lighting regulations, reflectors count as
lights. To permit the use of blue in the country flag part of number
plates, it was necessary to allow vehicles to show a steady blue light.
The only remaining restrictions are that a vehicle may not show a white
light to the rear or a red light to the front.

However, it is still illegal to fit a flashing blue light, or anything
that may appear to be a flashing blue light except to emergency vehicles.

--
Colin Bignell

On 02/05/2022 23:20, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 02/05/2022 18:35, Murmansk wrote:
>> I've always noticed the things people do with their numberplates to make them to make them look like words etc - changing the spacing and putting strategically placed black or white bolts in.
>>
>> I'm now starting to notice the number of vehicles with blue lights on them and this prompted me to wonder if they are actually illegal - or is it just if they flash that they're illegal - unless on an emergency vehicle?
>

> The only remaining restrictions are that a vehicle may not show a white
> light to the rear or a red light to the front.

What colour is your reversing light?!

> However, it is still illegal to fit a flashing blue light, or anything
> that may appear to be a flashing blue light except to emergency vehicles.

There's a good summary of the requirements at
<https://www.4youngdrivers.co.uk/modifying-laws/undercar-neons-are-they-legal.htm>

--

Jeff

"Jeff Layman" <jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:t4r115$ha$1@dont-email.me...
> On 02/05/2022 23:20, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 02/05/2022 18:35, Murmansk wrote:
>>> I've always noticed the things people do with their numberplates to make
>>> them to make them look like words etc - changing the spacing and putting
>>> strategically placed black or white bolts in.
>>>
>>> I'm now starting to notice the number of vehicles with blue lights on
>>> them and this prompted me to wonder if they are actually illegal - or is
>>> it just if they flash that they're illegal - unless on an emergency
>>> vehicle?
>>
>
>> The only remaining restrictions are that a vehicle may not show a white
>> light to the rear or a red light to the front.
>
> What colour is your reversing light?!

Ah, but the back of the car is the "front" in the direction of travel when
it is reversing!

On 03/05/2022 11:43, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 02/05/2022 23:20, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 02/05/2022 18:35, Murmansk wrote:
>>> I've always noticed the things people do with their numberplates to
>>> make them to make them look like words etc - changing the spacing and
>>> putting strategically placed black or white bolts in.
>>>
>>> I'm now starting to notice the number of vehicles with blue lights on
>>> them and this prompted me to wonder if they are actually illegal - or
>>> is it just if they flash that they're illegal - unless on an
>>> emergency vehicle?
>>
>
>> The only remaining restrictions are that a vehicle may not show a white
>> light to the rear or a red light to the front.
>
> What colour is your reversing light?!

That is one of a long list of permitted exceptions, but I thought most
people sensible enough to know it is one.

>
>> However, it is still illegal to fit a flashing blue light, or anything
>> that may appear to be a flashing blue light except to emergency vehicles.
>
> There's a good summary of the requirements at
> <https://www.4youngdrivers.co.uk/modifying-laws/undercar-neons-are-they-legal.htm>
>

That doesn't mention the fact that reflectors are also counted as
lights. It also quotes the original 1989 Regulations, without mentioning
any amendments. The showing blue lights amendment was to allow the EU
flag to be shown on numberplates, with GB in the centre, instead of
having to fit GB plates to travel within Europe. None of the UK flags
comply, although the Scottish flag could legally be used on the front
numberplate, as it contains no red.

--
Colin Bignell

On 02/05/2022 23:20, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 02/05/2022 18:35, Murmansk wrote:
>> I've always noticed the things people do with their numberplates to
>> make them to make them look like words etc - changing the spacing and
>> putting strategically placed black or white bolts in.
>>
>> I'm now starting to notice the number of vehicles with blue lights on
>> them and this prompted me to wonder if they are actually illegal - or
>> is it just if they flash that they're illegal - unless on an emergency
>> vehicle?
>
> For the purposes of the lighting regulations, reflectors count as
> lights. To permit the use of blue in the country flag part of number
> plates, it was necessary to allow vehicles to show a steady blue light.
> The only remaining restrictions are that a vehicle may not show a white
> light to the rear or a red light to the front.
>

I'd welcome any clue to the legislation which swept away the detailed
provisions in regulation 11 of the Road Vehicles Lighting Regulations
1989 (including a ban on blue rights to the rear other than for police
etc vehicles). I can find nothing. And if it had been found necessary
to provide for flags just to add an exception for them along with the
other detailed rules for them in
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2001/561/regulation/16

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 03/05/2022 12:16, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 03/05/2022 11:43, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> On 02/05/2022 23:20, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>> On 02/05/2022 18:35, Murmansk wrote:
>>>> I've always noticed the things people do with their numberplates to
>>>> make them to make them look like words etc - changing the spacing
>>>> and putting strategically placed black or white bolts in.
>>>>
>>>> I'm now starting to notice the number of vehicles with blue lights
>>>> on them and this prompted me to wonder if they are actually illegal
>>>> - or is it just if they flash that they're illegal - unless on an
>>>> emergency vehicle?
>>>
>>
>>> The only remaining restrictions are that a vehicle may not show a white
>>> light to the rear or a red light to the front.
>>
>> What colour is your reversing light?!
>
> That is one of a long list of permitted exceptions, but I thought most
> people sensible enough to know it is one.
>
>>
>>> However, it is still illegal to fit a flashing blue light, or anything
>>> that may appear to be a flashing blue light except to emergency
>>> vehicles.
>>
>> There's a good summary of the requirements at
>> <https://www.4youngdrivers.co.uk/modifying-laws/undercar-neons-are-they-legal.htm>
>>
>
> That doesn't mention the fact that reflectors are also counted as
> lights. It also quotes the original 1989 Regulations, without mentioning
> any amendments. The showing blue lights amendment was to allow the EU
> flag to be shown on numberplates, with GB in the centre, instead of
> having to fit GB plates to travel within Europe. None of the UK flags
> comply, although the Scottish flag could legally be used on the front
> numberplate, as it contains no red.
>
>

Provision for "the EU Flag" on number plates and the Saltire etc was
made in the 2001 regs I linked to in my earlier post. They were
accompanied by The Road Vehicles Lighting (Amendment) Regulations 2001
which made one very specific amendment to the 1989 regs, to add a new
subpara (sa):

"(sa)reflected blue, yellow and white light from a retro reflective
plate displaying a distinguishing sign in accordance with Council
Regulation (EC) No. 2411/98(2);"

I don't see that as licence for blue lamps.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 03/05/2022 13:44, Robin wrote:
> On 03/05/2022 12:16, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 03/05/2022 11:43, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>> On 02/05/2022 23:20, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>> On 02/05/2022 18:35, Murmansk wrote:
>>>>> I've always noticed the things people do with their numberplates to
>>>>> make them to make them look like words etc - changing the spacing
>>>>> and putting strategically placed black or white bolts in.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm now starting to notice the number of vehicles with blue lights
>>>>> on them and this prompted me to wonder if they are actually illegal
>>>>> - or is it just if they flash that they're illegal - unless on an
>>>>> emergency vehicle?
>>>>
>>>
>>>> The only remaining restrictions are that a vehicle may not show a white
>>>> light to the rear or a red light to the front.
>>>
>>> What colour is your reversing light?!
>>
>> That is one of a long list of permitted exceptions, but I thought most
>> people sensible enough to know it is one.
>>
>>>
>>>> However, it is still illegal to fit a flashing blue light, or anything
>>>> that may appear to be a flashing blue light except to emergency
>>>> vehicles.
>>>
>>> There's a good summary of the requirements at
>>> <https://www.4youngdrivers.co.uk/modifying-laws/undercar-neons-are-they-legal.htm>
>>>
>>
>> That doesn't mention the fact that reflectors are also counted as
>> lights. It also quotes the original 1989 Regulations, without
>> mentioning any amendments. The showing blue lights amendment was to
>> allow the EU flag to be shown on numberplates, with GB in the centre,
>> instead of having to fit GB plates to travel within Europe. None of
>> the UK flags comply, although the Scottish flag could legally be used
>> on the front numberplate, as it contains no red.
>>
>>
>
> Provision for "the EU Flag" on number plates and the Saltire etc was
> made in the 2001 regs I linked to in my earlier post.  They were
> accompanied by The Road Vehicles Lighting (Amendment) Regulations 2001
> which made one very specific amendment to the 1989 regs, to add a new
> subpara (sa):
>
> "(sa)reflected blue, yellow and white light from a retro reflective
> plate displaying a distinguishing sign in accordance with Council
> Regulation (EC) No. 2411/98(2);"
>
> I don't see that as licence for blue lamps.
>
I didn't know the exact regulations. I was simply remembering it being
reported that blue lights were now permitted. Obliviously the reporter
didn't get it quite right.

--
Colin Bignell

On 03/05/2022 14:20, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 03/05/2022 13:44, Robin wrote:
>> On 03/05/2022 12:16, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>> On 03/05/2022 11:43, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>>> On 02/05/2022 23:20, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>> On 02/05/2022 18:35, Murmansk wrote:
>>>>>> I've always noticed the things people do with their numberplates
>>>>>> to make them to make them look like words etc - changing the
>>>>>> spacing and putting strategically placed black or white bolts in.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm now starting to notice the number of vehicles with blue lights
>>>>>> on them and this prompted me to wonder if they are actually
>>>>>> illegal - or is it just if they flash that they're illegal -
>>>>>> unless on an emergency vehicle?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The only remaining restrictions are that a vehicle may not show a
>>>>> white
>>>>> light to the rear or a red light to the front.
>>>>
>>>> What colour is your reversing light?!
>>>
>>> That is one of a long list of permitted exceptions, but I thought
>>> most people sensible enough to know it is one.
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> However, it is still illegal to fit a flashing blue light, or anything
>>>>> that may appear to be a flashing blue light except to emergency
>>>>> vehicles.
>>>>
>>>> There's a good summary of the requirements at
>>>> <https://www.4youngdrivers.co.uk/modifying-laws/undercar-neons-are-they-legal.htm>
>>>>
>>>
>>> That doesn't mention the fact that reflectors are also counted as
>>> lights. It also quotes the original 1989 Regulations, without
>>> mentioning any amendments. The showing blue lights amendment was to
>>> allow the EU flag to be shown on numberplates, with GB in the centre,
>>> instead of having to fit GB plates to travel within Europe. None of
>>> the UK flags comply, although the Scottish flag could legally be used
>>> on the front numberplate, as it contains no red.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Provision for "the EU Flag" on number plates and the Saltire etc was
>> made in the 2001 regs I linked to in my earlier post.  They were
>> accompanied by The Road Vehicles Lighting (Amendment) Regulations 2001
>> which made one very specific amendment to the 1989 regs, to add a new
>> subpara (sa):
>>
>> "(sa)reflected blue, yellow and white light from a retro reflective
>> plate displaying a distinguishing sign in accordance with Council
>> Regulation (EC) No. 2411/98(2);"
>>
>> I don't see that as licence for blue lamps.
>>
> I didn't know the exact regulations. I was simply remembering it being
> reported that blue lights were now permitted. Obliviously the reporter
> didn't get it quite right.
>

Did the reporter also say that green and yellow lights were also now
permitted?

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 03/05/2022 16:32, Robin wrote:
> On 03/05/2022 14:20, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 03/05/2022 13:44, Robin wrote:
>>> On 03/05/2022 12:16, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>> On 03/05/2022 11:43, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>>>> On 02/05/2022 23:20, Colin Bignell wrote:
>>>>>> On 02/05/2022 18:35, Murmansk wrote:
>>>>>>> I've always noticed the things people do with their numberplates
>>>>>>> to make them to make them look like words etc - changing the
>>>>>>> spacing and putting strategically placed black or white bolts in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm now starting to notice the number of vehicles with blue
>>>>>>> lights on them and this prompted me to wonder if they are
>>>>>>> actually illegal - or is it just if they flash that they're
>>>>>>> illegal - unless on an emergency vehicle?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> The only remaining restrictions are that a vehicle may not show a
>>>>>> white
>>>>>> light to the rear or a red light to the front.
>>>>>
>>>>> What colour is your reversing light?!
>>>>
>>>> That is one of a long list of permitted exceptions, but I thought
>>>> most people sensible enough to know it is one.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> However, it is still illegal to fit a flashing blue light, or
>>>>>> anything
>>>>>> that may appear to be a flashing blue light except to emergency
>>>>>> vehicles.
>>>>>
>>>>> There's a good summary of the requirements at
>>>>> <https://www.4youngdrivers.co.uk/modifying-laws/undercar-neons-are-they-legal.htm>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That doesn't mention the fact that reflectors are also counted as
>>>> lights. It also quotes the original 1989 Regulations, without
>>>> mentioning any amendments. The showing blue lights amendment was to
>>>> allow the EU flag to be shown on numberplates, with GB in the
>>>> centre, instead of having to fit GB plates to travel within Europe.
>>>> None of the UK flags comply, although the Scottish flag could
>>>> legally be used on the front numberplate, as it contains no red.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Provision for "the EU Flag" on number plates and the Saltire etc was
>>> made in the 2001 regs I linked to in my earlier post.  They were
>>> accompanied by The Road Vehicles Lighting (Amendment) Regulations
>>> 2001 which made one very specific amendment to the 1989 regs, to add
>>> a new subpara (sa):
>>>
>>> "(sa)reflected blue, yellow and white light from a retro reflective
>>> plate displaying a distinguishing sign in accordance with Council
>>> Regulation (EC) No. 2411/98(2);"
>>>
>>> I don't see that as licence for blue lamps.
>>>
>> I didn't know the exact regulations. I was simply remembering it being
>> reported that blue lights were now permitted. Obliviously the reporter
>> didn't get it quite right.
>>
>
> Did the reporter also say that green and yellow lights were also now
> permitted?
>

My recollection of the report is that it said that the only remaining
restrictions were that white lights could not be shown to the rear (not
mentioned, but obviously not including reversing lights) nor red to the
front.

--
Colin Bignell