In article <VvedncgEHr_yae3_nZ2dnUU7-TPNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>,
Reentrant <reentrant@invalid.org.uk> wrote:
> On 01/05/2022 16:20, williamwright wrote:
> > Comments please, from anyone who has had panels on the roof for a number
> > of years. Pros and cons? Pitfalls? Economics?
> >
> > Bill

> Don't bother if there's any chance you will move in the next 20 - 25
> years. We found they added very little to the value of the property
> (even with a reasonably generous, transferrable 2013 FIT).

But is that still the case with electricity prices on the up?

--
*I'm already visualizing the duct tape over your mouth

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 01/05/2022 16:20, williamwright wrote:
> Comments please, from anyone who has had panels on the roof for a number
> of years. Pros and cons? Pitfalls? Economics?

I had 4.62kWp array fitted on the new extension/garage roof November
2015 2 "blocks" one of 8 panels on one roof and the other of 6 panels.
At the time the panels were the latest tech offering 330Wp each and
significantly more expensive than the normal 220Wp but I wanted the
maximum possible output in the space available.

Solar Installer said it was unlikely to recover the additional costs but
little did he know that our old mechanical electric meter would very
accurately reflect the power flow, The spinning disk slowing down to the
point of stalling when production was the same as consumption, and
running backwards when consumption was lower than production and power
was flowing out to our neighbours.

typically March through to the end of October my electricity meter
readings are lower than the previous months as our meter racks up a
virtual "credit" a bit like having 100% efficient and constantly
adapting battery without either the cost or having to make sure the
stored power is used every day.

So far it's generated nearly 28 MegaWatt hours and had completely paid
for its self by June last year. Since then it's returned over £1000 over
cost.
That said, if you were conned into getting a "smart" meter the return on
investment will be significantly longer if actually recoverable and the
huge cost of limited life, limited capacity battery storage is also
unlikely to ever return expenditure.

Most folks without mechanical meters end up dumping excess power via
immersion heater into a hot water tank thereby only saving the much
lower cost of equivalent gas units.

Logs to date with current, daily, monthly, yearly and total output can
be seen on the following page:
http://www.ginlongmonitoring.com/Terminal/TerminalMain.aspx?pid=10576

"www.GymRats.uk" <noreply@here.con> wrote in message
news:t63jgn$urt$1@dont-email.me...
> On 01/05/2022 16:20, williamwright wrote:
>> Comments please, from anyone who has had panels on the roof for a number
>> of years. Pros and cons? Pitfalls? Economics?
>
>
> I had 4.62kWp array fitted on the new extension/garage roof November 2015
> 2 "blocks" one of 8 panels on one roof and the other of 6 panels.
> At the time the panels were the latest tech offering 330Wp each and
> significantly more expensive than the normal 220Wp but I wanted the
> maximum possible output in the space available.
>
> Solar Installer said it was unlikely to recover the additional costs but
> little did he know that our old mechanical electric meter would very
> accurately reflect the power flow, The spinning disk slowing down to the
> point of stalling when production was the same as consumption, and running
> backwards when consumption was lower than production and power was flowing
> out to our neighbours.
>
> typically March through to the end of October my electricity meter
> readings are lower than the previous months as our meter racks up a
> virtual "credit" a bit like having 100% efficient and constantly adapting
> battery without either the cost or having to make sure the stored power is
> used every day.
>
> So far it's generated nearly 28 MegaWatt hours and had completely paid for
> its self by June last year. Since then it's returned over £1000 over cost.
> That said, if you were conned into getting a "smart" meter the return on
> investment will be significantly longer if actually recoverable and the
> huge cost of limited life, limited capacity battery storage is also
> unlikely to ever return expenditure.
>
> Most folks without mechanical meters end up dumping excess power via
> immersion heater into a hot water tank thereby only saving the much lower
> cost of equivalent gas units.
>
> Logs to date with current, daily, monthly, yearly and total output can be
> seen on the following page:
> http://www.ginlongmonitoring.com/Terminal/TerminalMain.aspx?pid=10576

So can meters with a digital display not decrement the reading if you
generate more than you consume?

With a mechanical meter, during a given period of time (eg 1 day):

- if you consume 10 kWhr and generate 5 kWhr, are you charged for 5 kWhr?

- if you consume and generate 5 kWhr, are you charged 0 (meter reading stays
constant)?

- if you consume 5 kWhr and generate 10 kWhr, are you credited with 5 kWhr?

Or is a kWhr that you generate "worth" less than a kWhr that you consume
from the grid, in terms of offsetting grid consumption and crediting for
contributing back to the grid?

When you talk about a smart meter, do you literally mean a smart meter with
the ability to communicate the meter readings to the electricity company, or
are you including dumb meters that happen to have a digital display rather
than a spinning disc and analogue dials?

On 18/05/2022 22:00, NY wrote:

>
> - if you consume 10 kWhr and generate 5 kWhr, are you charged for 5 kWhr?

I suspect that he received payment at a very favourable rate all solar
electricity generated both consumed on the premises and exported back to
the grid.

These schemes have since ended.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

NY wrote:

> So can meters with a digital display not decrement the reading if you generate
> more than you consume?

Generally not, they might flash up "RED" for reverse energy detected, but
they're not supposed to deduct it from energy consumed, that would be
over-generous as you'd get "paid" about 27p/kWh exported.

You can have a separate export meter that does tally up the exported units, if
you installed years ago on FIT they'll pay you ££/kWh, but now you can only go
onto SEG at about 3p/kWh, or you might get diddly squat for exports ...

www.GymRats.uk wrote:

>I had 4.62kWp array fitted on the new extension/garage roof November
>2015 2 "blocks" one of 8 panels on one roof and the other of 6 panels.
>At the time the panels were the latest tech offering 330Wp each and
>significantly more expensive than the normal 220Wp but I wanted the
>maximum possible output in the space available.
>
>Solar Installer said it was unlikely to recover the additional costs but
>little did he know that our old mechanical electric meter would very
>accurately reflect the power flow, The spinning disk slowing down to the
>point of stalling when production was the same as consumption, and
>running backwards when consumption was lower than production and power
>was flowing out to our neighbours.
>
>typically March through to the end of October my electricity meter
>readings are lower than the previous months as our meter racks up a
>virtual "credit" a bit like having 100% efficient and constantly
>adapting battery without either the cost or having to make sure the
>stored power is used every day.

Has your supplier not raised a query about this?

The FIT application form I was given included the question "does
your meter run backwards". I appreciate that it may not
immediately be apparent, but it is then down to the supplier to
replace the meter if they see fit.

Most mechanical meters have a little ratchet on the spinning
disk. When my installation is exporting you can hear a faint buzz
from the meter.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.

On 19/05/2022 07:55, Chris J Dixon wrote:
> www.GymRats.uk wrote:

> Has your supplier not raised a query about this?
>
> The FIT application form I was given included the question "does
> your meter run backwards". I appreciate that it may not
> immediately be apparent, but it is then down to the supplier to
> replace the meter if they see fit.
>
> Most mechanical meters have a little ratchet on the spinning
> disk. When my installation is exporting you can hear a faint buzz
> from the meter.

I was with "Outfox The Market" for the first few years and "So" since
then. Never had a query or concern raised, I always submit last moths
reading +1kWh to ensure there's always a detectable (billable) charge.
No-one knows that I don't have a huge bank of batteries.

Not having the gas boiler working for the last month might raise greater
concern though as our gas consumption should be zero!

Presumably my meter pre-dates those with a back-stop. I mentioned in a
comment elsewhere and lots of folks came back reporting the same findings.

On the FIT form there was indeed the question, but having installed the
panels in November it didn't become apparent for at least 4 months.

Only visits from 3rd parties is for the bi-annual export meter reading
and they're only interested in total exported figure and serial number.

It's not "theft" from the power companies because they're not paying me
for the energy that I'm returning to the grid but is still being billed
to neighbours receiving it.

On 18/05/2022 23:16, alan_m wrote:
> On 18/05/2022 22:00, NY wrote:
>
>>
>> - if you consume 10 kWhr and generate 5 kWhr, are you charged for 5 kWhr?
>
> I suspect that he received payment at a very favourable rate all solar
> electricity generated both consumed on the premises and exported back to
> the grid.
>
> These schemes have since ended.

Didn't see the original poster but for me then yes, only 5 kWh is
recorded on the meter.

The FIT export rate for me is (off the top of my head) around 3p per
unit but it's then assumed you use 50% of all energy produced so the
quarterly payment is 1.5p per unit "produced" whether used or not.

FIT is a stupid idea. For domestic solar it should have been done like
America which is exactly how mine works, you don't get paid for exported
power you just get credited on a unit basis rather than a financial
value. By far the fairest way for everyone and those without panels
wouldn't feel like their "green tax" was going into the pockets of
micro-generation sites.