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aus+uk / uk.d-i-y / Re: Amazon Prime van stolen

SubjectAuthor
* Amazon Prime van stolenHarry Bloomfield Esq
+* Re: Amazon Prime van stolenPaul
|+* Re: Amazon Prime van stolenJock
||`* Re: Amazon Prime van stolenColin Bignell
|| +* Re: Amazon Prime van stolenPaul
|| |+- Re: Amazon Prime van stolenColin Bignell
|| |`- Re: Amazon Prime van stolenJock
|| `- Re: Amazon Prime van stolenMax Demian
|+- Re: Amazon Prime van stolenHarry Bloomfield Esq
|`- Re: Amazon Prime van stolenPeter Johnson
+* Re: Amazon Prime van stolenNY
|+- Re: Amazon Prime van stolenRod Speed
|`* Re: Amazon Prime van stolenSteve Walker
| `* Re: Amazon Prime van stolencharles
|  +- Re: Amazon Prime van stolenRod Speed
|  +- Re: Amazon Prime van stolenTim+
|  `- Re: Amazon Prime van stolenSteve Walker
`* Re: Amazon Prime van stolenBrian
 `* Re: Amazon Prime van stolenNY
  +- Re: Amazon Prime van stolenRod Speed
  `- Re: Amazon Prime van stolenColin Bignell

1
Amazon Prime van stolen

<t4rprh$hdr$1@dont-email.me>

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From: a...@harrym1byt.plus.com (Harry Bloomfield Esq)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Amazon Prime van stolen
Date: Tue, 03 May 2022 18:47:28 +0100
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 by: Harry Bloomfield Esq - Tue, 3 May 2022 17:47 UTC

Why am I not surprised? Around here they get out leaving the key in and
the engine running, whilst they make their delivery. It was only a
matter of time before some bright spark followed them, waited for them
to stop to make a delivery and jump into the driving seat.

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/brazen-thieves-drive-amazon-van-23838218

Re: Amazon Prime van stolen

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Amazon Prime van stolen
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 23:52:43 -0400
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 by: Paul - Wed, 4 May 2022 03:52 UTC

On 5/3/2022 1:47 PM, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
> Why am I not surprised? Around here they get out leaving the key in and the engine running, whilst they make their delivery. It was only a matter of time before some bright spark followed them, waited for them to stop to make a delivery and jump into the driving seat.
>
> https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/brazen-thieves-drive-amazon-van-23838218

Amazon has GPS on the van.

https://ktul.com/news/local/police-find-amazon-prime-truck-abandoned-empty-after-being-stolen

Paul

Re: Amazon Prime van stolen

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From: kdj...@gmail.com (Jock)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Amazon Prime van stolen
Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 14:49:58 +1000
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 by: Jock - Wed, 4 May 2022 04:49 UTC

On Wed, 04 May 2022 13:52:43 +1000, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

> On 5/3/2022 1:47 PM, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
>> Why am I not surprised? Around here they get out leaving the key in and
>> the engine running, whilst they make their delivery. It was only a
>> matter of time before some bright spark followed them, waited for them
>> to stop to make a delivery and jump into the driving seat.
>>
>> https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/brazen-thieves-drive-amazon-van-23838218
>
> Amazon has GPS on the van.
>
> https://ktul.com/news/local/police-find-amazon-prime-truck-abandoned-empty-after-being-stolen

Didn't stop it getting stolen and looted.

Re: Amazon Prime van stolen

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 by: Colin Bignell - Wed, 4 May 2022 07:48 UTC

On 04/05/2022 05:49, Jock wrote:
> On Wed, 04 May 2022 13:52:43 +1000, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 5/3/2022 1:47 PM, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
>>> Why am I not surprised? Around here they get out leaving the key in
>>> and the engine running, whilst they make their delivery. It was only
>>> a matter of time before some bright spark followed them, waited for
>>> them to stop to make a delivery and jump into the driving seat.
>>>  https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/brazen-thieves-drive-amazon-van-23838218
>>>
>>
>> Amazon has GPS on the van.
>>
>> https://ktul.com/news/local/police-find-amazon-prime-truck-abandoned-empty-after-being-stolen
>>
>
> Didn't stop it getting stolen and looted.

Nor getting as far as Tulsa, Oklahoma

--
Colin Bignell

Re: Amazon Prime van stolen

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Amazon Prime van stolen
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 04:42:33 -0400
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 by: Paul - Wed, 4 May 2022 08:42 UTC

On 5/4/2022 3:48 AM, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 04/05/2022 05:49, Jock wrote:
>> On Wed, 04 May 2022 13:52:43 +1000, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/3/2022 1:47 PM, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
>>>> Why am I not surprised? Around here they get out leaving the key in and the engine running, whilst they make their delivery. It was only a matter of time before some bright spark followed them, waited for them to stop to make a delivery and jump into the driving seat.
>>>>  https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/brazen-thieves-drive-amazon-van-23838218
>>>
>>> Amazon has GPS on the van.
>>>
>>> https://ktul.com/news/local/police-find-amazon-prime-truck-abandoned-empty-after-being-stolen
>>
>> Didn't stop it getting stolen and looted.
>
> Nor getting as far as Tulsa, Oklahoma
>

The method is not likely intended for vehicle recovery.
It's to spy on the drivers :-)

They want to see if the drivers are following the
computer generated delivery order. The driving instructions
from the computer, are intended to make delivery as
efficient as possible. They don't want the drivers
doing any "I know a shortcut" things, where a van
ends up in a peat bog or something.

Apparently the drivers are allowed some freedom
packing the truck. They're taught some variation
of LIFO. I guess there's no good way to override
the drivers entirely.

As long as all the drivers are as smart as Bezos,
they'll do OK.

Some vehicle thefts, the thief isn't bringing the
vehicle to a chop-shop, instead they need the
vehicle to haul swag from another robbery they
have planned. After which the vehicle is abandoned,
once the goods are transferred out into their
first-person vehicle. That's so all the video
cameras won't get a sniff of their plate numbers.

If they wanted vehicle recovery, they could fit
the vehicle with video cameras and a remote disable.
And just shut off the engine, if something isn't
right about the scenario.

The GPS is a technique similar to what's been used
on long-haul transport for a while (can be used as
a double-check on log book violations, driving
too many hours in one session).

Paul

Re: Amazon Prime van stolen

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From: a...@harrym1byt.plus.com (Harry Bloomfield Esq)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Amazon Prime van stolen
Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 10:13:29 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Harry Bloomfield Esq - Wed, 4 May 2022 09:13 UTC

Paul wrote on 04/05/2022 :
> On 5/3/2022 1:47 PM, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
>> Why am I not surprised? Around here they get out leaving the key in and the
>> engine running, whilst they make their delivery. It was only a matter of
>> time before some bright spark followed them, waited for them to stop to
>> make a delivery and jump into the driving seat.
>>
>> https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/brazen-thieves-drive-amazon-van-23838218
>
> Amazon has GPS on the van.
>
> https://ktul.com/news/local/police-find-amazon-prime-truck-abandoned-empty-after-being-stolen
>
> Paul

Likely the van was stolen, so it could be cleared out of it's parcels.

Re: Amazon Prime van stolen

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<t4te9n$198s$1@gioia.aioe.org>
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 by: Colin Bignell - Wed, 4 May 2022 10:18 UTC

On 04/05/2022 09:42, Paul wrote:
> On 5/4/2022 3:48 AM, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 04/05/2022 05:49, Jock wrote:
>>> On Wed, 04 May 2022 13:52:43 +1000, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/3/2022 1:47 PM, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
>>>>> Why am I not surprised? Around here they get out leaving the key in
>>>>> and the engine running, whilst they make their delivery. It was
>>>>> only a matter of time before some bright spark followed them,
>>>>> waited for them to stop to make a delivery and jump into the
>>>>> driving seat.
>>>>>  https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/brazen-thieves-drive-amazon-van-23838218
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Amazon has GPS on the van.
>>>>
>>>> https://ktul.com/news/local/police-find-amazon-prime-truck-abandoned-empty-after-being-stolen
>>>>
>>>
>>> Didn't stop it getting stolen and looted.
>>
>> Nor getting as far as Tulsa, Oklahoma
>>
>
> The method is not likely intended for vehicle recovery.
> It's to spy on the drivers :-)

It also allows them to tell me when the delivery is X stops away. I
remember getting a vehicle potion from DPD for a delivery that was due
an hour later. It was in a nearby industrial site, next to the cafe, at
lunchtime.

> They want to see if the drivers are following the
> computer generated delivery order. The driving instructions
> from the computer, are intended to make delivery as
> efficient as possible. They don't want the drivers
> doing any "I know a shortcut" things, where a van
> ends up in a peat bog or something.
>
> Apparently the drivers are allowed some freedom
> packing the truck. They're taught some variation
> of LIFO. I guess there's no good way to override
> the drivers entirely.
>
> As long as all the drivers are as smart as Bezos,
> they'll do OK.
>
> Some vehicle thefts, the thief isn't bringing the
> vehicle to a chop-shop, instead they need the
> vehicle to haul swag from another robbery they
> have planned. After which the vehicle is abandoned,
> once the goods are transferred out into their
> first-person vehicle. That's so all the video
> cameras won't get a sniff of their plate numbers.

With an Amazon Prime van, it is probably the contents they are after.
Perhaps they should have keyless ignition, so that the driver can keep
the transponder in his pocket and it can't be driven away unless he is
close by. OTOH, that could simply result in him being mugged for the
transponder.

>
> If they wanted vehicle recovery, they could fit
> the vehicle with video cameras and a remote disable.
> And just shut off the engine, if something isn't
> right about the scenario.
>
> The GPS is a technique similar to what's been used
> on long-haul transport for a while (can be used as
> a double-check on log book violations, driving
> too many hours in one session).
>
>    Paul

--
Colin Bignell

Re: Amazon Prime van stolen

<muWdnd5lB-ZUwu__nZ2dnUU7-KednZ2d@brightview.co.uk>

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 by: Max Demian - Wed, 4 May 2022 11:13 UTC

On 04/05/2022 08:48, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 04/05/2022 05:49, Jock wrote:
>> On Wed, 04 May 2022 13:52:43 +1000, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/3/2022 1:47 PM, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
>>>> Why am I not surprised? Around here they get out leaving the key in
>>>> and the engine running, whilst they make their delivery. It was only
>>>> a matter of time before some bright spark followed them, waited for
>>>> them to stop to make a delivery and jump into the driving seat.
>>>>  https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/brazen-thieves-drive-amazon-van-23838218
>>>>
>>>
>>> Amazon has GPS on the van.
>>>
>>> https://ktul.com/news/local/police-find-amazon-prime-truck-abandoned-empty-after-being-stolen
>>>
>>
>> Didn't stop it getting stolen and looted.
>
> Nor getting as far as Tulsa, Oklahoma

....or back in time two years. Isn't technology wonderful?

--
Max Demian

Re: Amazon Prime van stolen

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From: pet...@parksidewood.nospam (Peter Johnson)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Amazon Prime van stolen
Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 15:00:39 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Peter Johnson - Wed, 4 May 2022 14:00 UTC

On Tue, 3 May 2022 23:52:43 -0400, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

>On 5/3/2022 1:47 PM, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
>> Why am I not surprised? Around here they get out leaving the key in and the engine running, whilst they make their delivery. It was only a matter of time before some bright spark followed them, waited for them to stop to make a delivery and jump into the driving seat.
>>
>> https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/brazen-thieves-drive-amazon-van-23838218
>
>Amazon has GPS on the van.
>
>https://ktul.com/news/local/police-find-amazon-prime-truck-abandoned-empty-after-being-stolen
>

Nearly 20 years ago I worked for a company that took delivery of a new
liveried van. Its driver was one of those who thought that locking it
while making deliveries was beneath him, so a couple of weeks later it
was stolen, but it had a tracker. A week or so later the tracker
company reported a location for it, about 30 miles from where it was
stolen. I went to fetch it, and found it tucked away, out of sight
where it wouldn't be found by chance, while the thief, or thieves,
waited to see if it did have a tracker.
The irony of it is that the only item stolen was the driver's bag,
which contained about £200 in cash from the lottery syndicate that he
ran.
Don't know why it took so long for the tracker location to be
identified.
Don't know if the driver refunded the lottery money to the pool
members either.

Re: Amazon Prime van stolen

<t4u2fa$k2j$1@dont-email.me>

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From: me...@privacy.invalid (NY)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Amazon Prime van stolen
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 15:26:44 +0100
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 by: NY - Wed, 4 May 2022 14:26 UTC

"Harry Bloomfield Esq" <a@harrym1byt.plus.com> wrote in message
news:t4rprh$hdr$1@dont-email.me...
> Why am I not surprised? Around here they get out leaving the key in and
> the engine running, whilst they make their delivery. It was only a matter
> of time before some bright spark followed them, waited for them to stop to
> make a delivery and jump into the driving seat.
>
> https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/brazen-thieves-drive-amazon-van-23838218

I can remember the days when very few people locked their car while going
into a petrol kiosk after filling up their car. Now everyone does. I read of
a case where a woman had her car stolen while she was filling up - so she
was only a couple of feet away, albeit on the other side of the car. The
report didn't say whether she'd left her keys in the ignition: I never do,
partly dating back to when I had a car with a lockable petrol cap (as
opposed to recent cars which have a cap that has no lock but which is behind
a lockable flap).

If the driver *had* locked his van, I wonder how much of a deterrent it
would have been. If the bike has been following from an earlier stop they
could have scanned for the code that the remote key sent when he locked on
the previous occasion, then worked out the next rolling code that would be
used while they were following the van, ready to unlock it as soon as the
driver stopped.

And I suppose they could have stolen the van while the driver was getting
the package out of the back, before he was able to lock the van once he
closed the rear door.

Leaving the van doors unlocked is partly excusable; not even removing the
keys from the ignition is not.

Re: Amazon Prime van stolen

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From: kdj...@gmail.com (Jock)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Amazon Prime van stolen
Date: Thu, 05 May 2022 00:34:42 +1000
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 by: Jock - Wed, 4 May 2022 14:34 UTC

On Wed, 04 May 2022 18:42:33 +1000, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:

> On 5/4/2022 3:48 AM, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 04/05/2022 05:49, Jock wrote:
>>> On Wed, 04 May 2022 13:52:43 +1000, Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 5/3/2022 1:47 PM, Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
>>>>> Why am I not surprised? Around here they get out leaving the key in
>>>>> and the engine running, whilst they make their delivery. It was only
>>>>> a matter of time before some bright spark followed them, waited for
>>>>> them to stop to make a delivery and jump into the driving seat.
>>>>> https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/brazen-thieves-drive-amazon-van-23838218
>>>>
>>>> Amazon has GPS on the van.
>>>>
>>>> https://ktul.com/news/local/police-find-amazon-prime-truck-abandoned-empty-after-being-stolen
>>>
>>> Didn't stop it getting stolen and looted.
>> Nor getting as far as Tulsa, Oklahoma
>>
>
> The method is not likely intended for vehicle recovery.
> It's to spy on the drivers :-)
>
> They want to see if the drivers are following the
> computer generated delivery order. The driving instructions
> from the computer, are intended to make delivery as
> efficient as possible. They don't want the drivers
> doing any "I know a shortcut" things, where a van
> ends up in a peat bog or something.
>
> Apparently the drivers are allowed some freedom
> packing the truck. They're taught some variation
> of LIFO. I guess there's no good way to override
> the drivers entirely.
>
> As long as all the drivers are as smart as Bezos,
> they'll do OK.

Unlikely that Bezos personally decides what happens.

So as long as all the drivers are as smart as those
who design the tracking system, they'll do OK. But
drivers aren't exactly rocket scientist material, so
it is very unlikely that all the drivers are as smart
as those who design the tracking system or they
wouldn't be drivers, stupid.

> Some vehicle thefts, the thief isn't bringing the
> vehicle to a chop-shop, instead they need the
> vehicle to haul swag from another robbery they
> have planned. After which the vehicle is abandoned,
> once the goods are transferred out into their
> first-person vehicle. That's so all the video
> cameras won't get a sniff of their plate numbers.
>
> If they wanted vehicle recovery, they could fit
> the vehicle with video cameras and a remote disable.
> And just shut off the engine, if something isn't
> right about the scenario.
>
> The GPS is a technique similar to what's been used
> on long-haul transport for a while (can be used as
> a double-check on log book violations, driving
> too many hours in one session).
>
> Paul

Re: Amazon Prime van stolen

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Amazon Prime van stolen
Date: Thu, 05 May 2022 01:23:41 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Wed, 4 May 2022 15:23 UTC

On Thu, 05 May 2022 00:26:44 +1000, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> "Harry Bloomfield Esq" <a@harrym1byt.plus.com> wrote in message
> news:t4rprh$hdr$1@dont-email.me...
>> Why am I not surprised? Around here they get out leaving the key in and
>> the engine running, whilst they make their delivery. It was only a
>> matter of time before some bright spark followed them, waited for them
>> to stop to make a delivery and jump into the driving seat.
>>
>> https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/brazen-thieves-drive-amazon-van-23838218

> I can remember the days when very few people locked their car while
> going into a petrol kiosk after filling up their car. Now everyone does.

Fark, hardly anyone does here.

Why bother if you keep the keys in your pocket when paying ?

But see below.

> I read of a case where a woman had her car stolen while she was filling
> up - so she was only a couple of feet away, albeit on the other side of
> the car. The report didn't say whether she'd left her keys in the
> ignition: I never do, partly dating back to when I had a car with a
> lockable petrol cap (as opposed to recent cars which have a cap that has
> no lock but which is behind a lockable flap).

> If the driver *had* locked his van, I wonder how much of a deterrent it
> would have been. If the bike has been following from an earlier stop
> they could have scanned for the code that the remote key sent when he
> locked on the previous occasion, then worked out the next rolling code
> that would be used while they were following the van, ready to unlock it
> as soon as the driver stopped.

That doesn't work.

> And I suppose they could have stolen the van while the driver was
> getting the package out of the back, before he was able to lock the van
> once he closed the rear door.

> Leaving the van doors unlocked is partly excusable; not even removing
> the keys from the ignition is not.

But plenty of cars and vans don't need the key to be in the lock to drive
off now.

Not clear how far away from the van that needs to be for it to no longer
work.

It should be possible for Amazon to have their vans automatically lock
when the driver moves far enough away from the van and unlock when
he returns to the van. And do facial recognition for the unlocking.

Clearly they don't get enough vans pinched to warrant the extra cost.

Re: Amazon Prime van stolen

<t4u7cg$v8o$1@dont-email.me>

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From: ste...@walker-family.me.uk (Steve Walker)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Amazon Prime van stolen
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 16:50:39 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Steve Walker - Wed, 4 May 2022 15:50 UTC

On 04/05/2022 15:26, NY wrote:
> "Harry Bloomfield Esq" <a@harrym1byt.plus.com> wrote in message
> news:t4rprh$hdr$1@dont-email.me...
>> Why am I not surprised? Around here they get out leaving the key in
>> and the engine running, whilst they make their delivery. It was only a
>> matter of time before some bright spark followed them, waited for them
>> to stop to make a delivery and jump into the driving seat.
>>
>> https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/brazen-thieves-drive-amazon-van-23838218
>>
>
> I can remember the days when very few people locked their car while
> going into a petrol kiosk after filling up their car. Now everyone does.
> I read of a case where a woman had her car stolen while she was filling
> up - so she was only a couple of feet away, albeit on the other side of
> the car. The report didn't say whether she'd left her keys in the
> ignition: I never do, partly dating back to when I had a car with a
> lockable petrol cap (as opposed to recent cars which have a cap that has
> no lock but which is behind a lockable flap).
>
> If the driver *had* locked his van, I wonder how much of a deterrent it
> would have been. If the bike has been following from an earlier stop
> they could have scanned for the code that the remote key sent when he
> locked on the previous occasion, then worked out the next rolling code
> that would be used while they were following the van, ready to unlock it
> as soon as the driver stopped.
>
> And I suppose they could have stolen the van while the driver was
> getting the package out of the back, before he was able to lock the van
> once he closed the rear door.
>
> Leaving the van doors unlocked is partly excusable; not even removing
> the keys from the ignition is not.

With many deliveries and short distances between them, it may be
necessary to leave the engine running, so as to avoid both wearing out
the starter/ring-gear and flattening the battery.

Better would be a system similar to that on police cars - as they now
have so many computers for ANPR, comms and database access, that take
ages to boot up, they leave them running, which means that the engine
must be left running - so they have a system that prevents the car be
driven, even though the engine is running.

Re: Amazon Prime van stolen

<59e3624fbdcharles@candehope.me.uk>

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From: char...@candehope.me.uk (charles)
Subject: Re: Amazon Prime van stolen
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Date: Wed, 04 May 2022 17:13:24 +0100
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 by: charles - Wed, 4 May 2022 16:13 UTC

In article <t4u7cg$v8o$1@dont-email.me>,
Steve Walker <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
> On 04/05/2022 15:26, NY wrote:
> > "Harry Bloomfield Esq" <a@harrym1byt.plus.com> wrote in message
> > news:t4rprh$hdr$1@dont-email.me...
> >> Why am I not surprised? Around here they get out leaving the key in
> >> and the engine running, whilst they make their delivery. It was only a
> >> matter of time before some bright spark followed them, waited for them
> >> to stop to make a delivery and jump into the driving seat.
> >>
> >> https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/brazen-thieves-drive-amazon-van-23838218
> >>
> >
> > I can remember the days when very few people locked their car while
> > going into a petrol kiosk after filling up their car. Now everyone does.
> > I read of a case where a woman had her car stolen while she was filling
> > up - so she was only a couple of feet away, albeit on the other side of
> > the car. The report didn't say whether she'd left her keys in the
> > ignition: I never do, partly dating back to when I had a car with a
> > lockable petrol cap (as opposed to recent cars which have a cap that has
> > no lock but which is behind a lockable flap).
> >
> > If the driver *had* locked his van, I wonder how much of a deterrent it
> > would have been. If the bike has been following from an earlier stop
> > they could have scanned for the code that the remote key sent when he
> > locked on the previous occasion, then worked out the next rolling code
> > that would be used while they were following the van, ready to unlock it
> > as soon as the driver stopped.
> >
> > And I suppose they could have stolen the van while the driver was
> > getting the package out of the back, before he was able to lock the van
> > once he closed the rear door.
> >
> > Leaving the van doors unlocked is partly excusable; not even removing
> > the keys from the ignition is not.

> With many deliveries and short distances between them, it may be
> necessary to leave the engine running, so as to avoid both wearing out
> the starter/ring-gear and flattening the battery.

In the UK, it's illegal to leave the engine running when the driver is not
seated inthe vehicle. Perfect use for an electric vehicle.

> Better would be a system similar to that on police cars - as they now
> have so many computers for ANPR, comms and database access, that take
> ages to boot up, they leave them running, which means that the engine
> must be left running - so they have a system that prevents the car be
> driven, even though the engine is running.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

Re: Amazon Prime van stolen

<op.1lnklzh8byq249@pvr2.lan>

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Amazon Prime van stolen
Date: Thu, 05 May 2022 02:40:37 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Wed, 4 May 2022 16:40 UTC

On Thu, 05 May 2022 02:13:24 +1000, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk>
wrote:

> In article <t4u7cg$v8o$1@dont-email.me>,
> Steve Walker <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
>> On 04/05/2022 15:26, NY wrote:
>> > "Harry Bloomfield Esq" <a@harrym1byt.plus.com> wrote in message
>> > news:t4rprh$hdr$1@dont-email.me...
>> >> Why am I not surprised? Around here they get out leaving the key in
>> >> and the engine running, whilst they make their delivery. It was only
>> a
>> >> matter of time before some bright spark followed them, waited for
>> them
>> >> to stop to make a delivery and jump into the driving seat.
>> >>
>> >>
>> https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/brazen-thieves-drive-amazon-van-23838218
>> >>
>> >
>> > I can remember the days when very few people locked their car while
>> > going into a petrol kiosk after filling up their car. Now everyone
>> does.
>> > I read of a case where a woman had her car stolen while she was
>> filling
>> > up - so she was only a couple of feet away, albeit on the other side
>> of
>> > the car. The report didn't say whether she'd left her keys in the
>> > ignition: I never do, partly dating back to when I had a car with a
>> > lockable petrol cap (as opposed to recent cars which have a cap that
>> has
>> > no lock but which is behind a lockable flap).
>> >
>> > If the driver *had* locked his van, I wonder how much of a deterrent
>> it
>> > would have been. If the bike has been following from an earlier stop
>> > they could have scanned for the code that the remote key sent when he
>> > locked on the previous occasion, then worked out the next rolling code
>> > that would be used while they were following the van, ready to unlock
>> it
>> > as soon as the driver stopped.
>> >
>> > And I suppose they could have stolen the van while the driver was
>> > getting the package out of the back, before he was able to lock the
>> van
>> > once he closed the rear door.
>> >
>> > Leaving the van doors unlocked is partly excusable; not even removing
>> > the keys from the ignition is not.
>
>> With many deliveries and short distances between them, it may be
>> necessary to leave the engine running, so as to avoid both wearing out
>> the starter/ring-gear and flattening the battery.
>
> In the UK, it's illegal to leave the engine running when the driver is
> not
> seated inthe vehicle.

> Perfect use for an electric vehicle.

Nope, the last thing you need is to end up with a flat
battery on a long distance persuit not being able to
refuel very quickly.

>> Better would be a system similar to that on police cars - as they now
>> have so many computers for ANPR, comms and database access, that take
>> ages to boot up, they leave them running, which means that the engine
>> must be left running - so they have a system that prevents the car be
>> driven, even though the engine is running.

Re: Amazon Prime van stolen

<543346466.673377236.150020.tim.downie-gmail.com@news.individual.net>

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From: tim.dow...@gmail.com (Tim+)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Amazon Prime van stolen
Date: 4 May 2022 17:18:52 GMT
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 by: Tim+ - Wed, 4 May 2022 17:18 UTC

charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
> In article <t4u7cg$v8o$1@dont-email.me>,
> Steve Walker <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>> With many deliveries and short distances between them, it may be
>> necessary to leave the engine running, so as to avoid both wearing out
>> the starter/ring-gear and flattening the battery.
>
> In the UK, it's illegal to leave the engine running when the driver is not
> seated inthe vehicle. Perfect use for an electric vehicle.

Indeed, if manufacturers ever come up with one with a good enough range for
delivery drivers. They’re getting there, but room for improvement.

Surely the simplest solution is an RFID chip implanted in the driver’s
buttock and a chip reader in the seat? ;-)

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Re: Amazon Prime van stolen

<t4udah$k01$1@dont-email.me>

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From: ste...@walker-family.me.uk (Steve Walker)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Amazon Prime van stolen
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 18:32:00 +0100
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 by: Steve Walker - Wed, 4 May 2022 17:32 UTC

On 04/05/2022 17:13, charles wrote:
> In article <t4u7cg$v8o$1@dont-email.me>,
> Steve Walker <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
>> On 04/05/2022 15:26, NY wrote:
>>> "Harry Bloomfield Esq" <a@harrym1byt.plus.com> wrote in message
>>> news:t4rprh$hdr$1@dont-email.me...
>>>> Why am I not surprised? Around here they get out leaving the key in
>>>> and the engine running, whilst they make their delivery. It was only a
>>>> matter of time before some bright spark followed them, waited for them
>>>> to stop to make a delivery and jump into the driving seat.
>>>>
>>>> https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/brazen-thieves-drive-amazon-van-23838218
>>>>
>>>
>>> I can remember the days when very few people locked their car while
>>> going into a petrol kiosk after filling up their car. Now everyone does.
>>> I read of a case where a woman had her car stolen while she was filling
>>> up - so she was only a couple of feet away, albeit on the other side of
>>> the car. The report didn't say whether she'd left her keys in the
>>> ignition: I never do, partly dating back to when I had a car with a
>>> lockable petrol cap (as opposed to recent cars which have a cap that has
>>> no lock but which is behind a lockable flap).
>>>
>>> If the driver *had* locked his van, I wonder how much of a deterrent it
>>> would have been. If the bike has been following from an earlier stop
>>> they could have scanned for the code that the remote key sent when he
>>> locked on the previous occasion, then worked out the next rolling code
>>> that would be used while they were following the van, ready to unlock it
>>> as soon as the driver stopped.
>>>
>>> And I suppose they could have stolen the van while the driver was
>>> getting the package out of the back, before he was able to lock the van
>>> once he closed the rear door.
>>>
>>> Leaving the van doors unlocked is partly excusable; not even removing
>>> the keys from the ignition is not.
>
>> With many deliveries and short distances between them, it may be
>> necessary to leave the engine running, so as to avoid both wearing out
>> the starter/ring-gear and flattening the battery.
>
> In the UK, it's illegal to leave the engine running when the driver is not
> seated inthe vehicle. Perfect use for an electric vehicle.

No - indeed it is often necessary when fault finding, to get out and
look or listen with the engine running. It is illegal to leave a vehicle
*unattended*, on a public road, with the engine running. That is why it
is not illegal to start the engine to warm up and then get out to de-ice it.

Separately (from insurance claims initially being denied) case law has
ruled that if the vehicle remains within the possible view of the
driver, it is not unattended. Precedent being set by a court ruling that
a car stolen when the keys were left in it, was not unattended, when the
driver could see it from the till where he was paying for petrol.

Electric vans typically have very short ranges (far less than cars) and
are insufficient for many delivery rounds - for example a Ford e-Transit
has a range of 166 miles. In reality that will be more like 150, but in
cold weather, below 100. It could be 20 miles each way from depot to
delivery area, leaving only 60 miles to last the day for deliveries ...
and that's without leaving any reserve.

>> Better would be a system similar to that on police cars - as they now
>> have so many computers for ANPR, comms and database access, that take
>> ages to boot up, they leave them running, which means that the engine
>> must be left running - so they have a system that prevents the car be
>> driven, even though the engine is running.
>

Re: Amazon Prime van stolen

<t4ug37$dev$1@dont-email.me>

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From: noi...@lid.org (Brian)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Amazon Prime van stolen
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 18:19:19 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Brian - Wed, 4 May 2022 18:19 UTC

Harry Bloomfield Esq <a@harrym1byt.plus.com> wrote:
> Why am I not surprised? Around here they get out leaving the key in and
> the engine running, whilst they make their delivery. It was only a
> matter of time before some bright spark followed them, waited for them
> to stop to make a delivery and jump into the driving seat.
>
> https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/brazen-thieves-drive-amazon-van-23838218
>

I saw a YouTube video showing the conversion of an ex UPS delivery vehicle
for normal use. UPS in the US use a special lock which prevent the engine
starting / running unless a ‘key’ the driver wears on his wrist is inserted
in a hole/ slot. I’m not sure if it must stay there but certainly, when the
driver leaves the vehicle, he must use it to restart the vehicle.

Obviously it requires modification of the vehicle and I’ve noticed Amazon
don’t always use their own vehicles - especially at busy times- but such a
system should certainly make things difficult for the opportunist.

Re: Amazon Prime van stolen

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From: me...@privacy.invalid (NY)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Amazon Prime van stolen
Date: Wed, 4 May 2022 22:12:41 +0100
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 by: NY - Wed, 4 May 2022 21:12 UTC

"Brian" <noinv@lid.org> wrote in message news:t4ug37$dev$1@dont-email.me...
> Harry Bloomfield Esq <a@harrym1byt.plus.com> wrote:
>> Why am I not surprised? Around here they get out leaving the key in and
>> the engine running, whilst they make their delivery. It was only a
>> matter of time before some bright spark followed them, waited for them
>> to stop to make a delivery and jump into the driving seat.
>>
>> https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/brazen-thieves-drive-amazon-van-23838218
>>
>
> I saw a YouTube video showing the conversion of an ex UPS delivery vehicle
> for normal use. UPS in the US use a special lock which prevent the engine
> starting / running unless a ‘key’ the driver wears on his wrist is
> inserted
> in a hole/ slot. I’m not sure if it must stay there but certainly, when
> the
> driver leaves the vehicle, he must use it to restart the vehicle.
>
> Obviously it requires modification of the vehicle and I’ve noticed Amazon
> don’t always use their own vehicles - especially at busy times- but such a
> system should certainly make things difficult for the opportunist.

Maybe the answer is to separate the two front doors from the rear door(s) on
the central locking so the driver can lock the access to the cab whenever he
gets out (preventing quick opportunistic drive-aways) while leaving the rear
doors open so he can unload the item that he is delivering.

Ideally, insist that the driver locks the van (both the side and the rear
doors) whenever he leaves it, including when he's got hold of the item that
he is delivering, but this might require some dexterity.

An RFID chip in the driver's pocket, linked to a reader in the van, would
also work - once the driver gets out of range, the van locks itself and
requires the remote on the key to be operated to unlock the van again. Needs
the normal safeguards to prevent the driver being able to lock himself out
with the keys inside.

At the very least, the driver should get into the habit of *always* removing
the keys from the ignition whenever he gets out, even if for convenience he
leaves the doors open. Some thieves might be able to make a duplicate key,
but that wouldn't be solved even by locking the doors and removing the keys.
But anyone who leaves the vehicle unattended with the keys in is asking for
trouble. Surely to god he didn't do that!

I may be paranoid (more about locking myself out than having my car stolen)
but I always remove the keys when I get out, unless I need to leave the
ignition on - eg to power a car tyre pump while I'm pumping up the tyres.
And then I leave a door open to prevent the central locking activating -
though I think central locking normally refuses to lock the doors after a
time interval if the keys are inside the car. I'm always puzzled how anyone
can lock their keys in their car nowadays. It's not like the old days where
you can leave the door locks in the locked state (from the outside) while
being able to open the doors from the inside to get out.

My car keys remain in my pocket permanently, except when I'm actually
sitting inside the car, or briefly when I'm using them to unlock/lock my
car, or my house (I keep car and house keys on the same keyring). I don't
empty my pockets at night - that way, in an emergency I can put my trousers
on and flee the house, same in the knowledge that I can't lock myself out
even with a Yale lock. There's never a "where have I put my keys" moment.

Re: Amazon Prime van stolen

<op.1ln1iiw8byq249@pvr2.lan>

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Amazon Prime van stolen
Date: Thu, 05 May 2022 08:45:44 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Wed, 4 May 2022 22:45 UTC

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote
> Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote
>> Harry Bloomfield Esq <a@harrym1byt.plus.com> wrote

>>> Why am I not surprised? Around here they get out leaving the key in and
>>> the engine running, whilst they make their delivery. It was only a
>>> matter of time before some bright spark followed them, waited for them
>>> to stop to make a delivery and jump into the driving seat.

>>> https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/brazen-thieves-drive-amazon-van-23838218

>> I saw a YouTube video showing the conversion of an ex UPS delivery
>> vehicle
>> for normal use. UPS in the US use a special lock which prevent the
>> engine
>> starting / running unless a ‘key’ the driver wears on his wrist is
>> inserted
>> in a hole/ slot. I’m not sure if it must stay there but certainly, when
>> the
>> driver leaves the vehicle, he must use it to restart the vehicle.
>>
>> Obviously it requires modification of the vehicle and I’ve noticed
>> Amazon
>> don’t always use their own vehicles - especially at busy times- but
>> such a
>> system should certainly make things difficult for the opportunist.
>
> Maybe the answer is to separate the two front doors from the rear
> door(s) on the central locking so the driver can lock the access to the
> cab whenever he gets out (preventing quick opportunistic drive-aways)
> while leaving the rear doors open so he can unload the item that he is
> delivering.

Makes more sense to have facial recognition for the doors
and being able to drive away. That would be completely
automatic for the driver and not expensive to implement.

> Ideally, insist that the driver locks the van (both the side and the
> rear doors) whenever he leaves it, including when he's got hold of the
> item that he is delivering, but this might require some dexterity.

See above.

> An RFID chip in the driver's pocket, linked to a reader in the van,
> would also work - once the driver gets out of range, the van locks
> itself and requires the remote on the key to be operated to unlock the
> van again. Needs the normal safeguards to prevent the driver being able
> to lock himself out with the keys inside.

> At the very least, the driver should get into the habit of *always*
> removing the keys from the ignition whenever he gets out, even if for
> convenience he leaves the doors open.

Facial recognition wouldnt require that.

> Some thieves might be able to make a duplicate key, but that wouldn't be
> solved even by locking the doors and removing the keys. But anyone who
> leaves the vehicle unattended with the keys in is asking for trouble.
> Surely to god he didn't do that!

Hard to ensure that that never happens, even by accident.

> I may be paranoid (more about locking myself out than having my car
> stolen) but I always remove the keys when I get out, unless I need to
> leave the ignition on - eg to power a car tyre pump while I'm pumping up
> the tyres. And then I leave a door open to prevent the central locking
> activating - though I think central locking normally refuses to lock the
> doors after a time interval if the keys are inside the car. I'm always
> puzzled how anyone can lock their keys in their car nowadays.

You can do that with my Getz, hit the lock button on the key with
a door open, put the key in the car, either accidentally or deliberately
and then close the door and have it lock on closing the door.

> It's not like the old days where you can leave the door locks in the
> locked state (from the outside) while being able to open the doors from
> the inside to get out.

Thats not the only way to do it.

> My car keys remain in my pocket permanently, except when I'm actually
> sitting inside the car, or briefly when I'm using them to unlock/lock my
> car, or my house (I keep car and house keys on the same keyring). I
> don't empty my pockets at night - that way, in an emergency I can put my
> trousers on and flee the house, same in the knowledge that I can't lock
> myself out even with a Yale lock. There's never a "where have I put my
> keys" moment.

I put my keys in the same place when ever they arent in the pocket or the
car.

Re: Amazon Prime van stolen

<k-ednSMn1cd5je7_nZ2dnUU7-d_NnZ2d@giganews.com>

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From: cpb...@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk (Colin Bignell)
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 by: Colin Bignell - Wed, 4 May 2022 23:48 UTC

On 04/05/2022 22:12, NY wrote:
....
> An RFID chip in the driver's pocket, linked to a reader in the van,
> would also work - once the driver gets out of range, the van locks
> itself and requires the remote on the key to be operated to unlock the
> van again. Needs the normal safeguards to prevent the driver being able
> to lock himself out with the keys inside.
....

Simply implement keyless ignition, as on many cars these days. The
driver carries a fob that locks the car when the driver gets out of
range and unlocks it when the driver gets close. The fob has to be
present for the car to start, although there is a variation that allows
a limited number of pre-authorised drivers to drive the car using a
mobile phone app.

--
Colin Bignell

1
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