On 29/04/2022 16:01, John Rumm wrote:
> On 29/04/2022 10:31, alan_m wrote:
>> On 29/04/2022 09:42, Scott wrote:
>>> I was listening to the radio about rising energy bills then I had my
>>> breakfast.  This got me thinking.
>>>
>>> I have a combi boiler.  I intend to turn the heating off for the
>>> summer.  Without the heating, the hot water seems to take longer to
>>> arrive wasting a lot of water and presumably gas.  Would it be more
>>> efficient to boil a kettle for the washing up?
>>
>>
>> Gas or electric to heat the kettle?
>>
>> As pointed out in another thread you will still be paying the daily
>> standing charge even if you are not using any gas
>>
>> A lot of advice on social media recently suggests to make a cup of tea
>> boiling a cup of water in the microwave is the cheapest followed by a
>> gas kettle then the electric kettle.
>>
>> I did a one off test by boiling 3 pints of water in each
>> Microwave = 5p
>
> Transformer based or inverter?
>
> (if that latter, and your power meter is not true RMS that could cause a
> low reading)
>
> I am surprised that a microwave would be cheaper than an electric kettle.
>
>

Out of interest I plugged ny Panasonic inverter combi-microwave into
a power meter and it uses about 0.3 KwH over a 24 hour period when
used for cooking veg (potato, sliced carrots, leeks) and maybe heating
some liquids a couple of times a day.

Today I warmed up a Higgidy pie that needed 25 minutes at 200C and
it used 0.48 KwH of power. On standby it uses 1w.

On 01/05/2022 11:15, alan_m wrote:
> On 01/05/2022 02:29, Jock wrote:
>
>> But waste heat thru the base.
>
> Strange that when I boil a mug of water in my kettle the base remains
> remarkably cool!  The plastic sides of the kettle above the element are
> warm to hot but not the base. Perhaps they have come up with a novel
> idea of building some insulation into the kettle beneath the element?
> Perhaps because the element has such a large surface area that boils
> water so fast that the base of the kettle hasn't got time to heat up
> before you use the cup of water?
>

And boiling 1.5l of water and not poring it out for 5 minutes the base
remains cool.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 30/04/2022 16:14, Scott wrote:
> I tried to advance this argument but she said batteries are not very
> expensive and last a long time. She also suggests that a battery
> powered FM radio will be a lot more efficient than any DAB radio.

Any FM radio will use less power than a DAB one.

Possibly because there's nothing on FM you want to listen to of course....

Andy

On 06/05/2022 21:25, Vir Campestris wrote:
> On 30/04/2022 16:14, Scott wrote:
>> I tried to advance this argument but she said batteries are not very
>> expensive and last a long time.  She also suggests that a battery
>> powered FM radio will be a lot more efficient than any DAB radio.
>
> Any FM radio will use less power than a DAB one.
>
> Possibly because there's nothing on FM you want to listen to of course....
>

My little FM radio runs on a couple of AA batteries that seem to last
for 6+ months.

My postable DAB radio has 10 rechargeable AA size batteries that last
for 8 to 10 hours - albeit the radio is now a few years old.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 06/05/2022 21:25, Vir Campestris wrote:
> On 30/04/2022 16:14, Scott wrote:
>> I tried to advance this argument but she said batteries are not very
>> expensive and last a long time.  She also suggests that a battery
>> powered FM radio will be a lot more efficient than any DAB radio.
>
> Any FM radio will use less power than a DAB one.
>
> Possibly because there's nothing on FM you want to listen to of course....
>
> Andy

Well I prefer FM because I object to listening to bubbling mud if
I try and listen to the same program on DAB.

In article <t557qu$8k7$2@gioia.aioe.org>,
Andrew <Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com> wrote:
> On 06/05/2022 21:25, Vir Campestris wrote:
> > On 30/04/2022 16:14, Scott wrote:
> >> I tried to advance this argument but she said batteries are not very
> >> expensive and last a long time. She also suggests that a battery
> >> powered FM radio will be a lot more efficient than any DAB radio.
> >
> > Any FM radio will use less power than a DAB one.
> >
> > Possibly because there's nothing on FM you want to listen to of course....
> >
> > Andy

> Well I prefer FM because I object to listening to bubbling mud if
> I try and listen to the same program on DAB.

get a proper aerial

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

In article <t5407h$g6b$1@dont-email.me>,
Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 30/04/2022 16:14, Scott wrote:
> > I tried to advance this argument but she said batteries are not very
> > expensive and last a long time. She also suggests that a battery
> > powered FM radio will be a lot more efficient than any DAB radio.

> Any FM radio will use less power than a DAB one.

And AM even less.

As a youngster starting work, I bought an AM radio kit. In 1962. A PP9 did
about 2 years on that, used every day. 750 mW output to a 7x4 speaker, so
sounded quite reasonable.

> Possibly because there's nothing on FM you want to listen to of
> course....

> Andy

--
*Time is what keeps everything from happening at once.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article <59e4cd3ee6dave@davenoise.co.uk>,
Dave Plowman (News) <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <t5407h$g6b$1@dont-email.me>,
> Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > On 30/04/2022 16:14, Scott wrote:
> > > I tried to advance this argument but she said batteries are not very
> > > expensive and last a long time. She also suggests that a battery
> > > powered FM radio will be a lot more efficient than any DAB radio.

> > Any FM radio will use less power than a DAB one.

> And AM even less.

and a crystal set, none at all.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 6 May 2022 at 21:25:21 BST, "Vir Campestris"
<vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 30/04/2022 16:14, Scott wrote:
>> I tried to advance this argument but she said batteries are not very
>> expensive and last a long time. She also suggests that a battery
>> powered FM radio will be a lot more efficient than any DAB radio.
>
> Any FM radio will use less power than a DAB one.
>

Except this (although it is both DAB and FM):

https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/dab-radios/xdr-s61d

Battery life (JEITA)*

DAB reception
Approx. 17 hours (using Sony (LR6SG) alkaline batteries)
Approx. 7 hours (using Sony (NH-AA) Ni-MH 1,000 mAh batteries)

FM reception
Approx. 17 hours (using Sony (LR6SG) alkaline batteries)
Approx. 7 hours (using Sony (NH-AA) Ni-MH 1,000 mAh batteries)

--
Cheers, Rob

On 07/05/2022 12:36, RJH wrote:
> On 6 May 2022 at 21:25:21 BST, "Vir Campestris"
> <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 30/04/2022 16:14, Scott wrote:
>>> I tried to advance this argument but she said batteries are not very
>>> expensive and last a long time. She also suggests that a battery
>>> powered FM radio will be a lot more efficient than any DAB radio.
>>
>> Any FM radio will use less power than a DAB one.
>>
>
> Except this (although it is both DAB and FM):
>
> https://www.sony.co.uk/electronics/dab-radios/xdr-s61d
>
> Battery life (JEITA)*
>
> DAB reception
> Approx. 17 hours (using Sony (LR6SG) alkaline batteries)
> Approx. 7 hours (using Sony (NH-AA) Ni-MH 1,000 mAh batteries)
>
> FM reception
> Approx. 17 hours (using Sony (LR6SG) alkaline batteries)
> Approx. 7 hours (using Sony (NH-AA) Ni-MH 1,000 mAh batteries)
>
Once you have DAB, you are running a processor which you might as well
use to demodulate the FM too.,

--
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere,
diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.”
― Groucho Marx

In article <59e4ce1fd2charles@candehope.me.uk>,
charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
> In article <59e4cd3ee6dave@davenoise.co.uk>,
> Dave Plowman (News) <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> > In article <t5407h$g6b$1@dont-email.me>,
> > Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> > > On 30/04/2022 16:14, Scott wrote:
> > > > I tried to advance this argument but she said batteries are not very
> > > > expensive and last a long time. She also suggests that a battery
> > > > powered FM radio will be a lot more efficient than any DAB radio.

> > > Any FM radio will use less power than a DAB one.

> > And AM even less.

> and a crystal set, none at all.

Good luck with a portable crystal set. ;-)

--
*I'm already visualizing the duct tape over your mouth

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> My postable DAB radio has 10 rechargeable AA size batteries that last
> for 8 to 10 hours - albeit the radio is now a few years old.

My DAB radio works off a usb charger, so when away from the
mains I use a mid-capacity (&rechargable) usb power brick.
Not internal, but saves faffing about with lots of AA's.

#Paul

On 07/05/2022 09:56, charles wrote:
> In article <t557qu$8k7$2@gioia.aioe.org>,
> Andrew <Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com> wrote:
>> On 06/05/2022 21:25, Vir Campestris wrote:
>>> On 30/04/2022 16:14, Scott wrote:
>>>> I tried to advance this argument but she said batteries are not very
>>>> expensive and last a long time. She also suggests that a battery
>>>> powered FM radio will be a lot more efficient than any DAB radio.
>>>
>>> Any FM radio will use less power than a DAB one.
>>>
>>> Possibly because there's nothing on FM you want to listen to of course....
>>>
>>> Andy
>
>> Well I prefer FM because I object to listening to bubbling mud if
>> I try and listen to the same program on DAB.
>
> get a proper aerial
>

I have one, for FM, so that's what I listen to by choice.

There is very little (if anything) on DAB that isn't on
Freeview anyway.

On 07/05/2022 08:28, alan_m wrote:
> On 06/05/2022 21:25, Vir Campestris wrote:
>> On 30/04/2022 16:14, Scott wrote:
>>> I tried to advance this argument but she said batteries are not very
>>> expensive and last a long time.  She also suggests that a battery
>>> powered FM radio will be a lot more efficient than any DAB radio.

Using rechargeables might be a little bit greener.

Explain the price paid for energy content to her.
AA cell is ~3Ah at 1.5v = 5Wh
AA Cells needs 200 of them 1kWh = £35

Mains electricity is presently 20p / 1kWh

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-Performance-Alkaline-Batteries-100-Pack-Grey/dp/B01B8R6PF2/?th=1

A mere factor of 200x more expensive!

>> Any FM radio will use less power than a DAB one.

An FM radio also has the advantage that current draw is strongly
correlated with the volume control. DAB burns lots of power just to
decode the signal even before you amplify it to audibility.

>> Possibly because there's nothing on FM you want to listen to of
>> course....
>>
>
> My little FM radio runs on a couple of AA batteries that seem to last
> for 6+ months.
>
> My postable DAB radio has 10 rechargeable AA size batteries that last
> for 8 to 10 hours - albeit the radio is now a few years old.

Those numbers are about what I see with mine. Sadly my old Sony
worldband FM radio gave up the ghost a while back :(

The DAB radio ran through my entire stock of AA batteries during the
great Northern Powergrid blackout MFU that they blamed on Storm Arwen.
One set every 8 hours. The FM radio would last a few weeks per set.

I actually had to go out and buy some more!

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On 09/05/2022 21:26, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 07/05/2022 08:28, alan_m wrote:
>> On 06/05/2022 21:25, Vir Campestris wrote:
>>> On 30/04/2022 16:14, Scott wrote:
>>>> I tried to advance this argument but she said batteries are not very
>>>> expensive and last a long time.  She also suggests that a battery
>>>> powered FM radio will be a lot more efficient than any DAB radio.
>
> Using rechargeables might be a little bit greener.
>
> Explain the price paid for energy content to her.
> AA cell is ~3Ah at 1.5v = 5Wh
> AA Cells needs 200 of them 1kWh = £35
>
> Mains electricity is presently 20p / 1kWh
>

Only for bulb customers who are being subsidised by
the taxpayer

On 10/05/2022 13:47, Andrew wrote:
> On 09/05/2022 21:26, Martin Brown wrote:
>> On 07/05/2022 08:28, alan_m wrote:
>>> On 06/05/2022 21:25, Vir Campestris wrote:
>>>> On 30/04/2022 16:14, Scott wrote:
>>>>> I tried to advance this argument but she said batteries are not very
>>>>> expensive and last a long time.  She also suggests that a battery
>>>>> powered FM radio will be a lot more efficient than any DAB radio.
>>
>> Using rechargeables might be a little bit greener.
>>
>> Explain the price paid for energy content to her.
>> AA cell is ~3Ah at 1.5v = 5Wh
>> AA Cells needs 200 of them 1kWh = £35
>>
>> Mains electricity is presently 20p / 1kWh
>>
>
> Only for bulb customers who are being subsidised by
> the taxpayer

And people still on fixed price contracts at other companies that
haven't quite gone bust yet. I guess 30p/kWh might be about current
market rate. The CEO of my supplier was pleading hardship yesterday.

Even at the new rip off prices batteries are two orders of magnitude
more expensive! Mains power is always better if you can have it.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

воскресенье, 1 мая 2022 г. в 16:52:15 UTC+2, alan_m:
> On 01/05/2022 11:15, alan_m wrote:
> > On 01/05/2022 02:29, Jock wrote:
> >
> >> But waste heat thru the base.
> >
> > Strange that when I boil a mug of water in my kettle the base remains
> > remarkably cool! The plastic sides of the kettle above the element are
> > warm to hot but not the base. Perhaps they have come up with a novel
> > idea of building some insulation into the kettle beneath the element?
> > Perhaps because the element has such a large surface area that boils
> > water so fast that the base of the kettle hasn't got time to heat up
> > before you use the cup of water?
> >
> And boiling 1.5l of water and not poring it out for 5 minutes the base
> remains cool.
> --
> mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk
Hello everyone, I'm the founder of the blog www.radiopicker.com/best-camping-radio-make-the-perfect-choice/ where I share expert articles on topics useful to tech enthusiasts.

пятница, 29 апреля 2022 г. в 10:42:17 UTC+2, Scott:
> I was listening to the radio about rising energy bills then I had my
> breakfast. This got me thinking.
>
> I have a combi boiler. I intend to turn the heating off for the
> summer. Without the heating, the hot water seems to take longer to
> arrive wasting a lot of water and presumably gas. Would it be more
> efficient to boil a kettle for the washing up?
Hello everyone, I'm the founder of the blog www.radiopicker.com/best-camping-radio-make-the-perfect-choice/ where I share expert articles on topics useful to tech enthusiasts.

пятница, 29 апреля 2022 г. в 10:42:17 UTC+2, Scott:
> I was listening to the radio about rising energy bills then I had my
> breakfast. This got me thinking.
>
> I have a combi boiler. I intend to turn the heating off for the
> summer. Without the heating, the hot water seems to take longer to
> arrive wasting a lot of water and presumably gas. Would it be more
> efficient to boil a kettle for the washing up?
Hello everyone, I am the founder of the gardening blog https://gardenguider..com/, sharing expert articles on topics useful to garden and flower lovers

суббота, 7 мая 2022 г. в 16:32:09 UTC+2, #Paul:
> alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> > My postable DAB radio has 10 rechargeable AA size batteries that last
> > for 8 to 10 hours - albeit the radio is now a few years old.
> My DAB radio works off a usb charger, so when away from the
> mains I use a mid-capacity (&rechargable) usb power brick.
> Not internal, but saves faffing about with lots of AA's.
>
> #Paul
Hello everyone, I am the founder of the gardening blog https://gardenguider..com/, sharing expert articles on topics useful to garden and flower lovers

суббота, 7 мая 2022 г. в 16:32:09 UTC+2, #Paul:
> alan_m <ju...@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> > My postable DAB radio has 10 rechargeable AA size batteries that last
> > for 8 to 10 hours - albeit the radio is now a few years old.
> My DAB radio works off a usb charger, so when away from the
> mains I use a mid-capacity (&rechargable) usb power brick.
> Not internal, but saves faffing about with lots of AA's.
>
> #Paul
Hello, I am https://ricecreamshoppe.com/nuwave-bravo-xl-vs-emeril-air-fryer-360-comparison/, I share expert articles, reviews, I will be glad to every reader

суббота, 7 мая 2022 г. в 11:04:32 UTC+2, charles:
> In article <t557qu$8k7$2...@gioia.aioe.org>,
> Andrew <Andrew9...@mybtinternet.com> wrote:
> > On 06/05/2022 21:25, Vir Campestris wrote:
> > > On 30/04/2022 16:14, Scott wrote:
> > >> I tried to advance this argument but she said batteries are not very
> > >> expensive and last a long time. She also suggests that a battery
> > >> powered FM radio will be a lot more efficient than any DAB radio.
> > >
> > > Any FM radio will use less power than a DAB one.
> > >
> > > Possibly because there's nothing on FM you want to listen to of course....
> > >
> > > Andy
>
> > Well I prefer FM because I object to listening to bubbling mud if
> > I try and listen to the same program on DAB.
> get a proper aerial
>
> --
> from KT24 in Surrey, England
> "I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
Hello, I am https://ricecreamshoppe.com/nuwave-bravo-xl-vs-emeril-air-fryer-360-comparison/, I share expert articles, reviews, I will be glad to every reader

On 29/04/2022 10:31, alan_m wrote:
> I did a one off test by boiling 3 pints of water in each
> Microwave = 5p

> Electric kettle = 5.4p

I would suggest those figures have to be wrong. A microwave oven is much
less than 100% efficient, in turning electrical energy into heat. A
kettle, by it's very design, turns all of the energy into heating the
water, except for any losses via the container.

I use the microwave for heating some food, which suites microwave
heating - not all do. I also use it for heating a cup of milk for a
drink, simply because it is the least messy solution.

Kettle is reserved for boiling water needs.

On 29/04/2022 11:06, RJH wrote:
> I tend to use the electric shower over the bath for a quick wash. I've a combi
> boiler and small amounts of hot water - even with the preheat - is the single
> worst part of it. Baths and showers are great though.

Me too. I tend to only use the bathroom washbasin for hand-washing. When
I need to wash my face, I lean over the edge of the bath and run the
electric shower.

On 01/12/2022 15:35, KIDS PLAY wrote:
> Hello everyone, I am the founder of the gardening bloghttps://gardenguider.com/, sharing expert articles on topics useful to garden and flower lovers

That's nice dear..