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aus+uk / uk.d-i-y / Re: Garden Wall Construction

SubjectAuthor
* Garden Wall ConstructionJeff Gaines
+- Re: Garden Wall ConstructionJock
+* Re: Garden Wall Constructionwilliamwright
|+* Re: Garden Wall ConstructionAndy Burns
||+- Re: Garden Wall Constructionwilliamwright
||`* Re: Garden Wall Constructionalan_m
|| `* Re: Garden Wall ConstructionAndy Burns
||  `* Re: Garden Wall Constructionalan_m
||   `* Re: Garden Wall ConstructionAndy Burns
||    `* Re: Garden Wall ConstructionAndy Burns
||     `* Re: Garden Wall Constructionalan_m
||      `* Re: Garden Wall ConstructionAndy Burns
||       `* Re: Garden Wall Constructionalan_m
||        `- Re: Garden Wall Constructionwilliamwright
|+- Re: Garden Wall ConstructionAndy Burns
|+* Re: Garden Wall ConstructionColin Bignell
||+* Re: Garden Wall ConstructionMartin Brown
|||`- Re: Garden Wall ConstructionColin Bignell
||`* Re: Garden Wall Constructionwilliamwright
|| `- Re: Garden Wall ConstructionColin Bignell
|`- Re: Garden Wall ConstructionAndrew
+- Re: Garden Wall ConstructionJeff Gaines
+* Re: Garden Wall ConstructionRobin
|`* Re: Garden Wall ConstructionBev
| +- Re: Garden Wall Constructionwilliamwright
| `* Re: Garden Wall ConstructionJeff Gaines
|  +- Re: Garden Wall ConstructionTricky Dicky
|  `* Re: Garden Wall ConstructionBev
|   +* Re: Garden Wall ConstructionJeff Gaines
|   |+* Re: Garden Wall Constructionalan_m
|   ||`* Re: Garden Wall ConstructionJeff Gaines
|   || +- Re: Garden Wall ConstructionThe Natural Philosopher
|   || `* Re: Garden Wall Constructionalan_m
|   ||  +* Re: Garden Wall Constructionalan_m
|   ||  |`- Re: Garden Wall Constructionwilliamwright
|   ||  `* Re: Garden Wall ConstructionJeff Gaines
|   ||   +- Re: Garden Wall Constructionalan_m
|   ||   `* Re: Garden Wall ConstructionTim Lamb
|   ||    `- Re: Garden Wall ConstructionJeff Gaines
|   |`- Re: Garden Wall ConstructionThe Natural Philosopher
|   `- Re: Garden Wall Constructionwilliamwright
`* Re: Garden Wall ConstructionThe Natural Philosopher
 `* Re: Garden Wall ConstructionTim Lamb
  +- Re: Garden Wall ConstructionAndrew
  `* Re: Garden Wall ConstructionThe Natural Philosopher
   `* Re: Garden Wall ConstructionTim Lamb
    `* Re: Garden Wall ConstructionThe Natural Philosopher
     `- Re: Garden Wall Constructionalan_m

Pages:12
Re: Garden Wall Construction

<jdn17vF9gsiU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: jun...@admac.myzen.co.uk (alan_m)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Garden Wall Construction
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 11:50:40 +0100
Organization: At Home
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 by: alan_m - Sat, 7 May 2022 10:50 UTC

On 07/05/2022 10:59, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 07/05/2022 in message <t55djs$dto$1@dont-email.me> Bev wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 12:29:24 +0000, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>
>>> On 06/05/2022 in message <t52s05$ro9$1@dont-email.me> Bev wrote:
>>>
>>>> and as the OP has said it abuts a path and can get some knocks then I'd
>>>> be much happier with piers.  The extra cost will be far less than a
>>>> personal injury claim should the wall fall on anyone and insurers
>>>> may be
>>>> very reluctant to cover any claim.
>>>
>>> I have piers on the 4" wall along the side of the garden but can't see
>>> why a 9" wall would need piers.
>>
>> Its your choice and your money.  You don't have to listen to other views.
>
> But I would be interested to know why people feel piers are needed on a
> 9" wall.
>

For a 2 metre wall you may need more than 9 inches width and piers would
give you this effective wider width.

A table of recommended SAFE wall heights/widths can be seen at
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/your-garden-walls-better-to-be-safe

I'm not sure that I would like a wall 9" x 6 foot x 27 foot without some
extra support along it's length.

If you already have fairly established shrubs and bushes along the
boundary how difficult will it be to dig the necessary
footings/foundations of the wall and having to remove roots without
actually killing of those shrubs bushes.

Is there any clay heave in your area? Around my way some brick garden
walls built on an estate 25 years ago are showing signs of cracking and
displacement. Your wall appears to be a public access boundary!

If it was my boundary I would be considering concrete fence posts,
concrete gravel boards and better quality wooden fence panels -not only
for cost but for safety and personal liability reasons.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Re: Garden Wall Construction

<xn0nhl03b30ipj100e@news.individual.net>

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From: jgaines_...@yahoo.co.uk (Jeff Gaines)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Garden Wall Construction
Date: 7 May 2022 11:05:48 GMT
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 by: Jeff Gaines - Sat, 7 May 2022 11:05 UTC

On 07/05/2022 in message <jdn17vF9gsiU1@mid.individual.net> alan_m wrote:

>On 07/05/2022 10:59, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>On 07/05/2022 in message <t55djs$dto$1@dont-email.me> Bev wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 06 May 2022 12:29:24 +0000, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 06/05/2022 in message <t52s05$ro9$1@dont-email.me> Bev wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>and as the OP has said it abuts a path and can get some knocks then I'd
>>>>>be much happier with piers.  The extra cost will be far less than a
>>>>>personal injury claim should the wall fall on anyone and insurers may
>>>>>be
>>>>>very reluctant to cover any claim.
>>>>
>>>>I have piers on the 4" wall along the side of the garden but can't see
>>>>why a 9" wall would need piers.
>>>
>>>Its your choice and your money.  You don't have to listen to other
>>>views.
>>
>>But I would be interested to know why people feel piers are needed on a
>>9" wall.
>>
>
>
>For a 2 metre wall you may need more than 9 inches width and piers would
>give you this effective wider width.
>
>
>A table of recommended SAFE wall heights/widths can be seen at
>https://www.gov.uk/guidance/your-garden-walls-better-to-be-safe
>
>I'm not sure that I would like a wall 9" x 6 foot x 27 foot without some
>extra support along it's length.
>
>If you already have fairly established shrubs and bushes along the
>boundary how difficult will it be to dig the necessary
>footings/foundations of the wall and having to remove roots without
>actually killing of those shrubs bushes.
>
>Is there any clay heave in your area? Around my way some brick garden
>walls built on an estate 25 years ago are showing signs of cracking and
>displacement. Your wall appears to be a public access boundary!
>
>If it was my boundary I would be considering concrete fence posts,
>concrete gravel boards and better quality wooden fence panels -not only
>for cost but for safety and personal liability reasons.

Thanks for the link, that is useful :-)

It says a 1.5 brick wall can be 2175mm heigh, unfortunately it doesn't
cover 2 bricks - 9". No mention of piers/pillars though.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Tell me what you need, and I'll tell you how to get along without it.

Re: Garden Wall Construction

<t55n8v$lkr$1@dont-email.me>

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Garden Wall Construction
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 13:04:46 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Sat, 7 May 2022 12:04 UTC

On 07/05/2022 11:15, Tim Lamb wrote:
> In message <t55dmc$et2$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
> <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes
>> On 06/05/2022 21:09, Tim Lamb wrote:
>>> In message <t53m6c$1ql$1@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher
>>> <tnp@invalid.invalid> writes
>>>> On 05/05/2022 22:49, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>>>  I am planning to have a wall constructed at the bottom of the
>>>>> garden, ti  will replace a 2 metre wooden fence and be about 27
>>>>> feet long by 6'  high. It abuts a private shared path servicing
>>>>> about 6 or  7 terraced  houses.
>>>>>  The builder who is quoting has said it will be cheaper if the skin
>>>>> that  faces the outside world is brick with a concrete block inner
>>>>> skin to  give me a solid 9" wall.
>>>>>  Does this sound a reasonable method of construction? The inner
>>>>> face  will  be covered by a hedge once it's grown.
>>>>
>>>> Yes. I will add some extra points - its nice if the top few courses
>>>> are all brick, and if it is a wall unless you go for house quality
>>>> foundations tie the thing together with steel in the courses somehow
>>>>
>>>>>  Will I need a brandy before I read the quote?
>>>>>
>>>> yes.
>>>  Nobody has yet mentioned stability weakness due to plastic damp
>>> coursing.
>>>>
>>>
>> Why would you use damp coursing in a garden wall?
>
> I don't know. I have never needed to build one.  I suppose one might
> need to consider efflorescence from wicked up moisture.
>
that soon washes off, the point is what is to rot in a garden wall?
Frost spalling is an issue, but mainly in the wall top. Just use
quality brick on top, or put a hard cement capping on

> We once looked over a house some friends were considering purchasing.
> The garden access was by a gate set in a single brick wall. On leaving,
> I had to force the gate shut and realised the wall was only being kept
> upright by the gate post!

Not unusual in very old houses

>>
>>
>

--
No Apple devices were knowingly used in the preparation of this post.

Re: Garden Wall Construction

<t55nom$pgm$1@dont-email.me>

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Garden Wall Construction
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 13:13:09 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Sat, 7 May 2022 12:13 UTC

On 07/05/2022 10:59, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 07/05/2022 in message <t55djs$dto$1@dont-email.me> Bev wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 12:29:24 +0000, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>
>>> On 06/05/2022 in message <t52s05$ro9$1@dont-email.me> Bev wrote:
>>>
>>>> and as the OP has said it abuts a path and can get some knocks then I'd
>>>> be much happier with piers.  The extra cost will be far less than a
>>>> personal injury claim should the wall fall on anyone and insurers
>>>> may be
>>>> very reluctant to cover any claim.
>>>
>>> I have piers on the 4" wall along the side of the garden but can't see
>>> why a 9" wall would need piers.
>>
>> Its your choice and your money.  You don't have to listen to other views.
>
> But I would be interested to know why people feel piers are needed on a
> 9" wall.
>
It depends on where its likely to get any lateral loads. It's basic
mechanical engineering. If the vector comprising the lateral load -
which might be wind - and the weight of the wall itself, falls outside
the base of the wall it's putting brickwork into tension, which its not
good at.

If you read my previous post the advice is to add steel ties inside the
wall to tie everything together - that at least means that *parts* will
not fall down - the whole shebang will go under heavy load: -)

Once you have a *reinforced* wall, the only failure mode left is that it
falls over as a unit under heavy wind. The buttresses/piers/pillars
extend the base and make that less likely.

I strongly advise lots of steel and really good quality hard brick
/cement/proprietary capping on the top courses, and if you live in a
windy spot consider a couple of buttresses...

--
“But what a weak barrier is truth when it stands in the way of an
hypothesis!”

Mary Wollstonecraft

Re: Garden Wall Construction

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Garden Wall Construction
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 13:14:36 +0100
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Sat, 7 May 2022 12:14 UTC

On 07/05/2022 12:05, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 07/05/2022 in message <jdn17vF9gsiU1@mid.individual.net> alan_m wrote:
>
>> On 07/05/2022 10:59, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>> On 07/05/2022 in message <t55djs$dto$1@dont-email.me> Bev wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 12:29:24 +0000, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 06/05/2022 in message <t52s05$ro9$1@dont-email.me> Bev wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> and as the OP has said it abuts a path and can get some knocks
>>>>>> then I'd
>>>>>> be much happier with piers.  The extra cost will be far less than a
>>>>>> personal injury claim should the wall fall on anyone and insurers
>>>>>> may be
>>>>>> very reluctant to cover any claim.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have piers on the 4" wall along the side of the garden but can't see
>>>>> why a 9" wall would need piers.
>>>>
>>>> Its your choice and your money.  You don't have to listen to other
>>>> views.
>>>
>>> But I would be interested to know why people feel piers are needed on
>>> a 9" wall.
>>>
>>
>>
>> For a 2 metre wall you may need more than 9 inches width and piers
>> would give you this effective wider width.
>>
>>
>> A table of recommended SAFE wall heights/widths can be seen at
>> https://www.gov.uk/guidance/your-garden-walls-better-to-be-safe
>>
>> I'm not sure that I would like a wall 9" x 6 foot x 27 foot without
>> some extra support along it's length.
>>
>> If you already have fairly established shrubs and bushes along the
>> boundary how difficult will it be to dig the necessary
>> footings/foundations of the wall and having to remove roots without
>> actually killing of those shrubs bushes.
>>
>> Is there any clay heave in your area?  Around my way some brick garden
>> walls built on an estate 25 years ago are showing signs of cracking
>> and displacement. Your wall appears to be a public access boundary!
>>
>> If it was my boundary I would be considering concrete fence posts,
>> concrete gravel boards and better quality wooden fence panels -not
>> only for cost but for safety and personal liability reasons.
>
> Thanks for the link, that is useful :-)
>
> It says a 1.5 brick wall can be 2175mm heigh, unfortunately it doesn't
> cover 2 bricks - 9". No mention of piers/pillars though.
>
But you will need them to put the stone lions on, surely?
:-)

--
“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere,
diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.”
― Groucho Marx

Re: Garden Wall Construction

<jdn712Fak47U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: jun...@admac.myzen.co.uk (alan_m)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Garden Wall Construction
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 13:29:22 +0100
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 by: alan_m - Sat, 7 May 2022 12:29 UTC

On 07/05/2022 12:05, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 07/05/2022 in message <jdn17vF9gsiU1@mid.individual.net> alan_m wrote:
>
>> On 07/05/2022 10:59, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>> On 07/05/2022 in message <t55djs$dto$1@dont-email.me> Bev wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 12:29:24 +0000, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 06/05/2022 in message <t52s05$ro9$1@dont-email.me> Bev wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> and as the OP has said it abuts a path and can get some knocks
>>>>>> then I'd
>>>>>> be much happier with piers.  The extra cost will be far less than a
>>>>>> personal injury claim should the wall fall on anyone and insurers
>>>>>> may be
>>>>>> very reluctant to cover any claim.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have piers on the 4" wall along the side of the garden but can't see
>>>>> why a 9" wall would need piers.
>>>>
>>>> Its your choice and your money.  You don't have to listen to other
>>>> views.
>>>
>>> But I would be interested to know why people feel piers are needed on
>>> a 9" wall.
>>>
>>
>>
>> For a 2 metre wall you may need more than 9 inches width and piers
>> would give you this effective wider width.
>>
>>
>> A table of recommended SAFE wall heights/widths can be seen at
>> https://www.gov.uk/guidance/your-garden-walls-better-to-be-safe
>>
>> I'm not sure that I would like a wall 9" x 6 foot x 27 foot without
>> some extra support along it's length.
>>
>> If you already have fairly established shrubs and bushes along the
>> boundary how difficult will it be to dig the necessary
>> footings/foundations of the wall and having to remove roots without
>> actually killing of those shrubs bushes.
>>
>> Is there any clay heave in your area?  Around my way some brick garden
>> walls built on an estate 25 years ago are showing signs of cracking
>> and displacement. Your wall appears to be a public access boundary!
>>
>> If it was my boundary I would be considering concrete fence posts,
>> concrete gravel boards and better quality wooden fence panels -not
>> only for cost but for safety and personal liability reasons.
>
> Thanks for the link, that is useful :-)
>
> It says a 1.5 brick wall can be 2175mm heigh, unfortunately it doesn't
> cover 2 bricks - 9". No mention of piers/pillars though.

At the bottom of the table they state 1.5 bricks is = 325mm or 12.8
inches (already more than 9 inches)

1.5 bricks is 1 brick lengthways and 1 brick sideways as shown the
diagram on page 2 of
https://www.brick.org.uk/admin/resources/s-free-standing-walls.pdf

This document also gives recommended foundation sizes

If you think that 2 bricks is 9 inches then you are misreading the
table. 9 inches is 1 brick lengthways and your maximum safe height is
more like 1300mm.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Re: Garden Wall Construction

<jdn7fjFamofU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: jun...@admac.myzen.co.uk (alan_m)
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Subject: Re: Garden Wall Construction
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 13:37:07 +0100
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 by: alan_m - Sat, 7 May 2022 12:37 UTC

On 07/05/2022 13:29, alan_m wrote:

> This document also gives recommended foundation sizes

Further, do you need permission/planning to dig the public side of the
wall, in the access pathway, to give you the width of the necessary
foundations?

--
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Re: Garden Wall Construction

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From: jun...@admac.myzen.co.uk (alan_m)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Garden Wall Construction
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 13:42:10 +0100
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 by: alan_m - Sat, 7 May 2022 12:42 UTC

On 07/05/2022 13:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> that soon washes off, the point is what is to rot in a garden wall?
>  Frost spalling is an issue, but mainly in the wall top. Just use
> quality brick on top, or put a hard cement capping on
>

From what I've read today :) a DPC at the base of a free standing wall
can seriously weaken it and is not usually needed. More normal is some
from of DPC towards the top of the wall or below the coping stones.

--
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Re: Garden Wall Construction

<xn0nhl5ft37tr7h00f@news.individual.net>

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From: jgaines_...@yahoo.co.uk (Jeff Gaines)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Garden Wall Construction
Date: 7 May 2022 14:30:21 GMT
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 by: Jeff Gaines - Sat, 7 May 2022 14:30 UTC

On 07/05/2022 in message <jdn712Fak47U1@mid.individual.net> alan_m wrote:

>>It says a 1.5 brick wall can be 2175mm heigh, unfortunately it doesn't
>>cover 2 bricks - 9". No mention of piers/pillars though.
>
>At the bottom of the table they state 1.5 bricks is = 325mm or 12.8
>inches (already more than 9 inches)
>
>1.5 bricks is 1 brick lengthways and 1 brick sideways as shown the diagram
>on page 2 of
>https://www.brick.org.uk/admin/resources/s-free-standing-walls.pdf
>
>This document also gives recommended foundation sizes
>
>If you think that 2 bricks is 9 inches then you are misreading the table.
>9 inches is 1 brick lengthways and your maximum safe height is more like
>1300mm.

Many thanks :-)

I find it confusing when the width of a wall is measured in the length of
a brick I'm afraid - bit like something being 4 times cheaper which,
presumably, means a quarter the price.

To summarise in terms I can understand I will either need a 14" wall or a
9" wall with piers I think. It will be interesting to see what the builder
suggests in his quote but I think this is probably not viable. Fortunately
I do have the contact details for a good fencer :-)

Thanks to all!

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
That's an amazing invention but who would ever want to use one of them?
(President Hayes speaking to Alexander Graham Bell on the invention of the
telephone)

Re: Garden Wall Construction

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From: jun...@admac.myzen.co.uk (alan_m)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Garden Wall Construction
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 16:03:01 +0100
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 by: alan_m - Sat, 7 May 2022 15:03 UTC

On 06/05/2022 06:38, Andy Burns wrote:
> williamwright wrote:
>
>> It's a lot of wall and a lot of bricks.
>
> couple of thousand bricks?  roughly £1 each, is the rule of thumb still
> "as much to lay them as to buy them"?  plus digging and pouring of a
> foundation

Double brick width wall more like 4,500 bricks.
Foundations at least 2.25 cubic metres of concrete

--
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From: use...@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Garden Wall Construction
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 16:35:12 +0100
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 by: Andy Burns - Sat, 7 May 2022 15:35 UTC

alan_m wrote:

> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> couple of thousand bricks?
>
> Double brick width wall more like 4,500 bricks.

Poke 6 and 27 into here, then double it ..
<https://www.travisperkins.co.uk/content/brick-calculator>

> Foundations at least 2.25 cubic metres of concrete
£100/cube, or it was a couple of years ago mixed onsite.

Re: Garden Wall Construction

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From: jun...@admac.myzen.co.uk (alan_m)
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Subject: Re: Garden Wall Construction
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 17:16:28 +0100
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In-Reply-To: <jdnhtgFck4jU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: alan_m - Sat, 7 May 2022 16:16 UTC

On 07/05/2022 16:35, Andy Burns wrote:
> alan_m wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>
>>> couple of thousand bricks?
>>
>> Double brick width wall more like 4,500 bricks.
>
> Poke 6 and 27 into here, then double it ..
> <https://www.travisperkins.co.uk/content/brick-calculator>

It is x4 it... The wall has to be two bricks lengthways wide (18 inches)
whereas that calculator is for a wall 1 brick widthways wide (4.5
inches). Plus an allowance for breakages albeit in a two lengthwise
brick wall any (cosmetic) corner damage to bricks could be hidden in the
middle of the wall.

sanity check
wall is 6.88 cubic metres
brick with 0.4 inch mortar on 3 sides is 0.001925 cubic metres
bricks required = 3575 + allowance for damage or breakages.

I originally overestimated the wall to be 2 x 9 metres instead of 1.8 x
8.22 metres.

--
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From: jun...@admac.myzen.co.uk (alan_m)
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Subject: Re: Garden Wall Construction
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 17:51:44 +0100
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In-Reply-To: <xn0nhl5ft37tr7h00f@news.individual.net>
 by: alan_m - Sat, 7 May 2022 16:51 UTC

On 07/05/2022 15:30, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 07/05/2022 in message <jdn712Fak47U1@mid.individual.net> alan_m wrote:
>
>>> It says a 1.5 brick wall can be 2175mm heigh, unfortunately it
>>> doesn't cover 2 bricks - 9". No mention of piers/pillars though.
>>
>> At the bottom of the table they state 1.5 bricks is = 325mm  or 12.8
>> inches (already more than 9 inches)
>>
>> 1.5 bricks is 1 brick lengthways and 1 brick sideways as shown the
>> diagram on page 2 of
>> https://www.brick.org.uk/admin/resources/s-free-standing-walls.pdf
>>
>> This document also gives recommended foundation sizes
>>
>> If you think that 2 bricks is 9 inches then you are misreading the
>> table. 9 inches is 1 brick lengthways and your maximum safe height is
>> more like 1300mm.
>
> Many thanks :-)
>
> I find it confusing when the width of a wall is measured in the length
> of a brick I'm afraid - bit like something being 4 times cheaper which,
> presumably, means a quarter the price.
>
> To summarise in terms I can understand I will either need a 14" wall or
> a 9" wall with piers I think. It will be interesting to see what the
> builder suggests in his quote but I think this is probably not viable.
> Fortunately I do have the contact details for a good fencer :-)
>
> Thanks to all!
>

For quality tunnel and groove wood panels, concrete posts and gravel
boards one of my local fence contractors would charge approx £1,000 for
that fence including fitting. The price does NOT include removal of
waste (old fencing) so also factor in the price of a skip.

Try their estimator
https://lemonfencing.co.uk/fence-estimator/

Select timber fencing and concrete posts
IMPORTANT select a fence height of 1.8 metres to give the choice of 6
fence panel styles (£30 to £80 per panel).
Select their installation @£360 for that length of fence
You don't have to give your details on the last page - just scroll down
to the breakdown of price/costs

Cheap panels will have one good side and an easily climb side. To
prevent easy climbing the good side should be fitted facing the public
path. More expensive panels may have two good sides and no horizontal
bars to ease climbing.

--
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Re: Garden Wall Construction

<jdnoklFdqcvU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: use...@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Garden Wall Construction
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 18:29:57 +0100
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 by: Andy Burns - Sat, 7 May 2022 17:29 UTC

alan_m wrote:

> On 07/05/2022 16:35, Andy Burns wrote:
>> alan_m wrote:
>>
>>> Andy Burns wrote:
>>>
>>>> couple of thousand bricks?
>>>
>>> Double brick width wall more like 4,500 bricks.
>>
>> Poke 6 and 27 into here, then double it ..
>> <https://www.travisperkins.co.uk/content/brick-calculator>
>
> It is x4 it... The wall has to be two bricks lengthways wide (18 inches) whereas
> that calculator is for a wall 1 brick widthways wide (4.5 inches).  Plus an
> allowance for breakages albeit in a two lengthwise brick wall any (cosmetic)
> corner damage to bricks could be hidden in the middle of the wall.
>
> sanity check
> wall is 6.88 cubic metres
> brick with 0.4 inch mortar on 3 sides is 0.001925 cubic metres
> bricks required = 3575 + allowance for damage or breakages.
>
> I originally overestimated the wall to be 2 x 9 metres instead of 1.8 x 8.22
> metres.
>
>

Re: Garden Wall Construction

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From: use...@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Garden Wall Construction
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 18:31:10 +0100
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In-Reply-To: <jdnoklFdqcvU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Andy Burns - Sat, 7 May 2022 17:31 UTC

Andy Burns wrote:

[sorry clicked send too early]

>> It is x4 it... The wall has to be two bricks lengthways wide (18 inches)

Does it? thought the O/P wanted 9"

Re: Garden Wall Construction

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From: jun...@admac.myzen.co.uk (alan_m)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Garden Wall Construction
Date: Sat, 7 May 2022 20:04:49 +0100
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 by: alan_m - Sat, 7 May 2022 19:04 UTC

On 07/05/2022 18:31, Andy Burns wrote:
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
> [sorry clicked send too early]
>
>>> It is x4 it... The wall has to be two bricks lengthways wide (18 inches)
>
> Does it? thought the O/P wanted 9"

Until he found that the safe height for a 9" wall, without piers, was 1.3m

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Re: Garden Wall Construction

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From: use...@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Garden Wall Construction
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 07:42:15 +0100
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In-Reply-To: <jdnu6iFes07U1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Andy Burns - Sun, 8 May 2022 06:42 UTC

alan_m wrote:

>>> The wall has to be two bricks lengthways wide (18 inches)
>>
>> Does it? thought the O/P wanted 9"
>
> Until he found that the safe height for a 9" wall, without piers, was 1.3m

In which case wouldn't a 9" wall with piers every 2-3m be more sensible than
making the whole wall 18"

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From: jun...@admac.myzen.co.uk (alan_m)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Garden Wall Construction
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 08:44:18 +0100
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In-Reply-To: <jdp729Fm1fiU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: alan_m - Sun, 8 May 2022 07:44 UTC

On 08/05/2022 07:42, Andy Burns wrote:
> alan_m wrote:
>
>>>> The wall has to be two bricks lengthways wide (18 inches)
>>>
>>> Does it? thought the O/P wanted 9"
>>
>> Until he found that the safe height for a 9" wall, without piers, was
>> 1.3m
>
> In which case wouldn't a 9" wall with piers every 2-3m be more sensible
> than making the whole wall 18"
>

Probably yes.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Re: Garden Wall Construction

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From: tim...@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk (Tim Lamb)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Garden Wall Construction
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 10:14:21 +0100
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 by: Tim Lamb - Sun, 8 May 2022 09:14 UTC

In message <xn0nhl5ft37tr7h00f@news.individual.net>, Jeff Gaines
<jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>On 07/05/2022 in message <jdn712Fak47U1@mid.individual.net> alan_m wrote:
>
>>>It says a 1.5 brick wall can be 2175mm heigh, unfortunately it
>>>doesn't cover 2 bricks - 9". No mention of piers/pillars though.
>>
>>At the bottom of the table they state 1.5 bricks is = 325mm or 12.8
>>inches (already more than 9 inches)
>>
>>1.5 bricks is 1 brick lengthways and 1 brick sideways as shown the
>>diagram on page 2 of
>>https://www.brick.org.uk/admin/resources/s-free-standing-walls.pdf
>>
>>This document also gives recommended foundation sizes
>>
>>If you think that 2 bricks is 9 inches then you are misreading the
>>table. 9 inches is 1 brick lengthways and your maximum safe height is
>>more like 1300mm.
>
>Many thanks :-)
>
>I find it confusing when the width of a wall is measured in the length
>of a brick I'm afraid - bit like something being 4 times cheaper which,
>presumably, means a quarter the price.
>
>To summarise in terms I can understand I will either need a 14" wall or
>a 9" wall with piers I think. It will be interesting to see what the
>builder suggests in his quote but I think this is probably not viable.
>Fortunately I do have the contact details for a good fencer :-)
>
>Thanks to all!

Small point about fences next to public rights of way.. inevitably some
child will think it hugely entertaining to rattle a stick along vertical
fence slats:-(
>

--
Tim Lamb

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From: jgaines_...@yahoo.co.uk (Jeff Gaines)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Garden Wall Construction
Date: 8 May 2022 09:35:58 GMT
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 by: Jeff Gaines - Sun, 8 May 2022 09:35 UTC

On 08/05/2022 in message <F5WqOiMtn4diFw5x@marfordfarm.demon.co.uk> Tim
Lamb wrote:

>Small point about fences next to public rights of way.. inevitably some
>child will think it hugely entertaining to rattle a stick along vertical
>fence slats:-(

Then I might think it amusing to rattle a stick along said small child!

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Those are my principles – and if you don’t like them, well, I have others.
(Groucho Marx)

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From: wrightsa...@f2s.com (williamwright)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Garden Wall Construction
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 by: williamwright - Sun, 8 May 2022 13:42 UTC

On 08/05/2022 08:44, alan_m wrote:
>> In which case wouldn't a 9" wall with piers every 2-3m be more
>> sensible than making the whole wall 18"
>>
>
> Probably yes.

I've been advocating that all along, to almost universal derision.

Bill

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From: wrightsa...@f2s.com (williamwright)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Garden Wall Construction
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 by: williamwright - Sun, 8 May 2022 13:44 UTC

On 07/05/2022 10:19, Bev wrote:
>> I have piers on the 4" wall along the side of the garden but can't see
>> why a 9" wall would need piers.
> Its your choice and your money. You don't have to listen to other views.

Funnily enough I was in a garden yesterday that had once been a school
playground, and the wall (built 1928) was six ft high, 9", with piers
every nine feet.

Bill

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 by: williamwright - Sun, 8 May 2022 13:46 UTC

On 07/05/2022 13:37, alan_m wrote:
> On 07/05/2022 13:29, alan_m wrote:
>
>> This document also gives recommended foundation sizes
>
> Further, do you need permission/planning to dig the public side of the
> wall, in the access pathway, to give you the width of the necessary
> foundations?
>
Well you're going to reinstate it anyway, and that's all they'd demand
if you did it without PP.

Bill

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