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aus+uk / uk.d-i-y / AFDDs one for Andy Burns

SubjectAuthor
* AFDDs one for Andy BurnsARW
+* Re: AFDDs one for Andy BurnsRobin
|+* Re: AFDDs one for Andy BurnsTheo
||`- Re: AFDDs one for Andy BurnsRobin
|`- Re: AFDDs one for Andy BurnsFredxx
`- Re: AFDDs one for Andy BurnsJeff Layman

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AFDDs one for Andy Burns

<t584jn$ens$1@dont-email.me>

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From: adamwads...@blueyonder.co.uk (ARW)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: AFDDs one for Andy Burns
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 11:04:38 +0100
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 by: ARW - Sun, 8 May 2022 10:04 UTC

Andy was one of the the first to actually hold hold a Wylex single
module AFDD.

And last week I found this in a house

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jCCc6jTcI5c?&ab_channel=AdamWadsworth

--
Adam

Re: AFDDs one for Andy Burns

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From: rbw...@outlook.com (Robin)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: AFDDs one for Andy Burns
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 14:08:18 +0100
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 by: Robin - Sun, 8 May 2022 13:08 UTC

On 08/05/2022 11:04, ARW wrote:
> Andy was one of the the first to actually hold hold a Wylex single
> module AFDD.
>
> And last week I found this in a house
>
> https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jCCc6jTcI5c?&ab_channel=AdamWadsworth
>
>
blimey - an AFDD built into a plug with a flashing LED to alert you to
the problem?

PS

I remain to be convinced there was evidence that the latest move on
AFDDs, adding hundreds of pounds to the cost of a new CU, was
cost-effective. Norway is one of the richest countries in the world on
the yardstick that matters for stuff like this - per capita income. If
any country could afford a "safety at any a price" it's them. But their
Institute for Energy Technology concluded earlier this year there was
still too little evidence that AFDDs are effective to justify requiring
them. Their several concerns included that it seems easy to find tests
where AFDDs don't detect dangerous arcing but do disconnect harmless
arcing.

<https://ife.brage.unit.no/ife-xmlui/bitstream/handle/11250/2992145/IFE-E-2022-006+-+Status+of+the+use+of+arc+fault+detection+devices+in+Norway+-+Signed.pdf?sequence=1>

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Re: AFDDs one for Andy Burns

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From: jmlay...@invalid.invalid (Jeff Layman)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: AFDDs one for Andy Burns
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 15:17:56 +0100
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 by: Jeff Layman - Sun, 8 May 2022 14:17 UTC

On 08/05/2022 11:04, ARW wrote:
> Andy was one of the the first to actually hold hold a Wylex single
> module AFDD.
>
> And last week I found this in a house
>
> https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jCCc6jTcI5c?&ab_channel=AdamWadsworth

So are you changing from being a "Sparky" to being an "Arcy"?

--

Jeff

Re: AFDDs one for Andy Burns

<bKk*UCGNy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

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From: theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: AFDDs one for Andy Burns
Date: 08 May 2022 20:40:41 +0100 (BST)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
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 by: Theo - Sun, 8 May 2022 19:40 UTC

Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
> I remain to be convinced there was evidence that the latest move on
> AFDDs, adding hundreds of pounds to the cost of a new CU, was
> cost-effective. Norway is one of the richest countries in the world on
> the yardstick that matters for stuff like this - per capita income. If
> any country could afford a "safety at any a price" it's them. But their
> Institute for Energy Technology concluded earlier this year there was
> still too little evidence that AFDDs are effective to justify requiring
> them. Their several concerns included that it seems easy to find tests
> where AFDDs don't detect dangerous arcing but do disconnect harmless
> arcing.

AFCIs have been standard fit in the US and Canada, in certain areas since
1999/2000 and everywhere since 2014/15. An AFCI breaker is about $40 and an
AFCI socket about $25 (on Amazon, no doubt cheaper from a wholesaler).

They're 110v, so they have more current and perhaps their AFCIs aren't so
sensitive.

Given they're now mandated in 'special situations', I'd expect increasing
volume to bring the price down. Although I wonder if this is partly a 'not
invented here' situation - you might already be able to buy them from
Schneider, Legrand or Siemens (maybe in multi-module format to go in a
continental-style three-row three-phase panel), but not to go in your 10 way
Wylex or MK consumer unit.

Theo

Re: AFDDs one for Andy Burns

<8a553152-e32e-2a3f-202c-8e4ec3faf1b9@outlook.com>

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From: rbw...@outlook.com (Robin)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: AFDDs one for Andy Burns
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 22:33:45 +0100
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 by: Robin - Sun, 8 May 2022 21:33 UTC

On 08/05/2022 20:40, Theo wrote:
> Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>> I remain to be convinced there was evidence that the latest move on
>> AFDDs, adding hundreds of pounds to the cost of a new CU, was
>> cost-effective. Norway is one of the richest countries in the world on
>> the yardstick that matters for stuff like this - per capita income. If
>> any country could afford a "safety at any a price" it's them. But their
>> Institute for Energy Technology concluded earlier this year there was
>> still too little evidence that AFDDs are effective to justify requiring
>> them. Their several concerns included that it seems easy to find tests
>> where AFDDs don't detect dangerous arcing but do disconnect harmless
>> arcing.
>
> AFCIs have been standard fit in the US and Canada, in certain areas since
> 1999/2000 and everywhere since 2014/15. An AFCI breaker is about $40 and an
> AFCI socket about $25 (on Amazon, no doubt cheaper from a wholesaler).

And yet there seems to be a dearth of evidence of their benefits in
practice. Proponents are still citing today as "evidence" a US Consumer
Product Safety Division report in 2003 which had "ES [Engineering
Sciences] staff estimate
that the inclusion of AFCI protection in circuit breakers could have
prevented 50% or more of these fires."

Government departments, the NHS etc would be castigated for spending
hundreds of millions of pounds a year without pilots and/or monitoring
to establish the costs and benefits. Yet the BSI seem to get away with
asserting they know best what's good value for other people's money.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

Re: AFDDs one for Andy Burns

<t5blga$ohj$1@dont-email.me>

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From: fre...@spam.uk (Fredxx)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: AFDDs one for Andy Burns
Date: Mon, 9 May 2022 19:11:23 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Fredxx - Mon, 9 May 2022 18:11 UTC

On 08/05/2022 14:08, Robin wrote:
> On 08/05/2022 11:04, ARW wrote:
>> Andy was one of the the first to actually hold hold a Wylex single
>> module AFDD.
>>
>> And last week I found this in a house
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/shorts/jCCc6jTcI5c?&ab_channel=AdamWadsworth
>>
>>
> blimey - an AFDD built into a plug with a flashing LED to alert you to
> the problem?
>
> PS
>
> I remain to be convinced there was evidence that the latest move on
> AFDDs, adding hundreds of pounds to the cost of a new CU, was
> cost-effective.  Norway is one of the richest countries in the world on
> the yardstick that matters for stuff like this - per capita income.  If
> any country could afford a "safety at any a price" it's them.  But their
> Institute for Energy Technology concluded earlier this year there was
> still too little evidence that AFDDs are effective to justify requiring
> them.  Their several concerns included that it seems easy to find tests
> where AFDDs don't detect dangerous arcing but do disconnect harmless
> arcing.
>
> <https://ife.brage.unit.no/ife-xmlui/bitstream/handle/11250/2992145/IFE-E-2022-006+-+Status+of+the+use+of+arc+fault+detection+devices+in+Norway+-+Signed.pdf?sequence=1>
>

Given bell wire seems the norm for lighting wiring, that doesn't really
surprise me very much!

1
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