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aus+uk / uk.d-i-y / Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?

SubjectAuthor
* OT: Oxygen catching fire?Davey
+- Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Jeff Gaines
+* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Martin Brown
|`* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Spike
| `* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Tim+
|  +- Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Spike
|  `- Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Martin Brown
+* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?The Natural Philosopher
|+- Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Harry Bloomfield Esq
|+* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Jeff Gaines
||`- Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Andrew
|`* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Colin Bignell
| `* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Andrew
|  +- Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Tim Streater
|  `* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Martin Brown
|   `- Insect breathing (was Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?)Vir Campestris
+- Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Nick Odell
+- Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Colin Bignell
+* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Clive Arthur
|`* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Chris Green
| +* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Jeff Gaines
| |`* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Martin Brown
| | `* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Theo
| |  `- Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Martin Brown
| `- Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Steve Walker
+* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?brian
|`- Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Davey
+* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Tim Streater
|`* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Martin Brown
| `- Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Vir Campestris
`* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Fredxx
 +* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Chris Hogg
 |+- Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Fredxx
 |`- Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Andrew
 `* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Thomas Prufer
  `* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Jeff Gaines
   `* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Martin Brown
    `* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Jeff Gaines
     `* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Chris Hogg
      `* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Jeff Gaines
       +- Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?The Natural Philosopher
       +- Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Chris Hogg
       +* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Tim Streater
       |`* Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Jeff Gaines
       | +- Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Tim Streater
       | `- Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Martin Brown
       `- Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?Martin Brown

Pages:12
Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?

<t4jp4e$1uce$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: '''newsp...@nonad.co.uk (Martin Brown)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 17:46:05 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Martin Brown - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 16:46 UTC

On 30/04/2022 15:27, Tim Streater wrote:
> On 27 Apr 2022 at 09:35:57 BST, Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I thought that oxygen assisted combustion, but was not itself
>> flammable. It sounds like another case of somebody not knowing their
>> science, but that somebody is "The Official Investigator", who produced
>> the report.
>
> Oxygen doesn't "assist" combustion, it actively participates in it and is
> consumed in the process. Others have pointed out about oxygen tents and fires,
> you should read up about the Apollo 1 capsule disaster - pure oxygen at
> atmospheric pressure. That just required a spark.
>
> Don't ever breathe pure oxygen at atmospheric pressure either; you will damage
> your lungs.

Working at very high altitude observatories they keep oxygen on hand for
anyone who passes out. Several are now in the dead zone where it is
impossible to function properly without additional oxygen. The
atmosphere is a lot thinner up there. ALMA is the most extreme 5km high.

https://www.eso.org/public/unitedkingdom/blog/breathless-science/

The most interesting effect of breathing oxygen at high altitude is that
it makes the stars apparently go brighter when you take a breath.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?

<t4jr5h$243$1@dont-email.me>

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From: fre...@spam.uk (Fredxx)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2022 18:20:49 +0100
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 by: Fredxx - Sat, 30 Apr 2022 17:20 UTC

On 30/04/2022 17:28, Chris Hogg wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 16:06:39 +0100, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> I recall an experiment and air burning in gas. But I can't find many
>> hits, this is the best I can find:
>>
>> https://www.alamy.com/chemical-lecture-experiments-at-the-platinum-jet-insidethe-chimney-the-escaping-gas-may-be-lighted-at-the-topof-the-chimney-and-there-simultaneously-appears-a-flame-ofgas-burning-in-air-and-a-flame-of-air-burning-in-gas-itmay-be-necessary-to-choke-the-piece-of-combustion-tubingby-means-of-a-small-cork-with-a-slit-cut-in-one-side-to-pre-vent-too-large-a-volume-of-air-from-entering-the-chimneythrough-the-tube-by-properly-regulating-the-supply-ofcoal-gas-and-the-admission-of-air-a-flame-2-or-3-cm-highis-easily-obtained-while-the-two-flames-do-not-appear-markedly-different-itwill-be-foun-image343352743.html
>>
>> Or even:
>> https://tinyurl.com/yk9n5r93
>>
> My old school chemistry book (Partington's text book of Inorganic
> Chemistry, 4th edition, 1933, and yes, I still have it, and very
> useful it is still, for the basics) has three diagrams along those
> lines. The first shows a flame of oxygen burning in an atmosphere of
> hydrogen; the second shows air burning in an atmosphere of coal gas,
> and the third of oxygen burning inside an annular coal gas flame.

I think we must have come across the same or similar book. I think mine
might have been called "Parkers Inorganic Chemistry" of the same vintage
BICBW. I can't remember the detail, just the principle.

Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?

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From: Andrew97...@mybtinternet.com (Andrew)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 15:23:15 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Andrew - Sun, 1 May 2022 14:23 UTC

On 27/04/2022 12:07, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 27/04/2022 in message <t4b13t$h2d$2@dont-email.me> The Natural
> Philosopher wrote:
>
>> On 27/04/2022 09:35, Davey wrote:
>>> From the Telegraph:
>>>
>>> "EgyptAir flight MS804 was travelling from France to Egypt in May 2016
>>> when it crashed into the sea south of Crete, killing everyone on board
>>> the Airbus A320. Among them were 12 French tourists, a Briton, 30
>>> Egyptians, two Iraqis and a Canadian.
>>>
>>> The Egyptian authorities claimed at the time that the plane was brought
>>> down by a terrorist attack – despite no group ever claiming
>>> responsibility.
>>>
>>> But an official investigation has concluded that it was caused by a
>>> cigarette being smoked in the cockpit that inadvertently ignited oxygen
>>> leaking from an emergency gas mask. "
>>>
>>> I thought that oxygen assisted combustion, but was not itself
>>> flammable. It sounds like another case of somebody not knowing their
>>> science, but that somebody is "The Official Investigator", who produced
>>> the report.
>>>
>> I think it is you who does not know their science - forget the
>> journalist - an oxygen full cockpit makes everything inflammable.
>
> Indeed, that's what the OP implied and I said. Oxygen on its own is not
> flammable.
>

Its the eternal triangle.

Oxygen, Fuel, Heat

Remove or quell any one to put out a (normal) fire.

Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?

<t4m585$8nb$2@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: Andrew97...@mybtinternet.com (Andrew)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 15:25:09 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Andrew - Sun, 1 May 2022 14:25 UTC

On 27/04/2022 14:07, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 27/04/2022 10:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>> On 27/04/2022 09:35, Davey wrote:
>>>  From the Telegraph:
>>>
>>> "EgyptAir flight MS804 was travelling from France to Egypt in May 2016
>>> when it crashed into the sea south of Crete, killing everyone on board
>>> the Airbus A320. Among them were 12 French tourists, a Briton, 30
>>> Egyptians, two Iraqis and a Canadian.
>>>
>>> The Egyptian authorities claimed at the time that the plane was brought
>>> down by a terrorist attack – despite no group ever claiming
>>> responsibility.
>>>
>>> But an official investigation has concluded that it was caused by a
>>> cigarette being smoked in the cockpit that inadvertently ignited oxygen
>>> leaking from an emergency gas mask. "
>>>
>>> I thought that oxygen assisted combustion, but was not itself
>>> flammable. It sounds like another case of somebody not knowing their
>>> science, but that somebody is "The Official Investigator", who produced
>>> the report.
>>>
>> I think it is you who does not know their science - forget the
>> journalist - an oxygen full cockpit makes everything inflammable.
>>
>
> A local concentration of 24% or more oxygen is enough to make most
> things combust readily.
>

I thought earth had a higher percentage of O2 than that during
the dynosaur era ?. This might explain how they got so big yet
could still physically move themselves.

Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?

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From: Andrew97...@mybtinternet.com (Andrew)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 15:29:26 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Andrew - Sun, 1 May 2022 14:29 UTC

On 30/04/2022 17:28, Chris Hogg wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 16:06:39 +0100, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> I recall an experiment and air burning in gas. But I can't find many
>> hits, this is the best I can find:
>>
>> https://www.alamy.com/chemical-lecture-experiments-at-the-platinum-jet-insidethe-chimney-the-escaping-gas-may-be-lighted-at-the-topof-the-chimney-and-there-simultaneously-appears-a-flame-ofgas-burning-in-air-and-a-flame-of-air-burning-in-gas-itmay-be-necessary-to-choke-the-piece-of-combustion-tubingby-means-of-a-small-cork-with-a-slit-cut-in-one-side-to-pre-vent-too-large-a-volume-of-air-from-entering-the-chimneythrough-the-tube-by-properly-regulating-the-supply-ofcoal-gas-and-the-admission-of-air-a-flame-2-or-3-cm-highis-easily-obtained-while-the-two-flames-do-not-appear-markedly-different-itwill-be-foun-image343352743.html
>>
>> Or even:
>> https://tinyurl.com/yk9n5r93
>>
> My old school chemistry book (Partington's text book of Inorganic
> Chemistry, 4th edition, 1933, and yes, I still have it, and very
> useful it is still, for the basics) has three diagrams along those
> lines. The first shows a flame of oxygen burning in an atmosphere of
> hydrogen; the second shows air burning in an atmosphere of coal gas,
> and the third of oxygen burning inside an annular coal gas flame.
>

When the Kings Cross fire occurred, the most deaths and injuries
were caused by a fireball that shot up the escalator tunnel when
the smoke above the flames caught fire.

Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?

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From: timstrea...@greenbee.net (Tim Streater)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?
Date: 1 May 2022 14:36:25 GMT
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 by: Tim Streater - Sun, 1 May 2022 14:36 UTC

On 01 May 2022 at 15:25:09 BST, Andrew <Andrew97d-junk@mybtinternet.com>
wrote:

> On 27/04/2022 14:07, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 27/04/2022 10:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 27/04/2022 09:35, Davey wrote:
>>>> From the Telegraph:
>>>>
>>>> "EgyptAir flight MS804 was travelling from France to Egypt in May 2016
>>>> when it crashed into the sea south of Crete, killing everyone on board
>>>> the Airbus A320. Among them were 12 French tourists, a Briton, 30
>>>> Egyptians, two Iraqis and a Canadian.
>>>>
>>>> The Egyptian authorities claimed at the time that the plane was brought
>>>> down by a terrorist attack – despite no group ever claiming
>>>> responsibility.
>>>>
>>>> But an official investigation has concluded that it was caused by a
>>>> cigarette being smoked in the cockpit that inadvertently ignited oxygen
>>>> leaking from an emergency gas mask. "
>>>>
>>>> I thought that oxygen assisted combustion, but was not itself
>>>> flammable. It sounds like another case of somebody not knowing their
>>>> science, but that somebody is "The Official Investigator", who produced
>>>> the report.
>>>>
>>> I think it is you who does not know their science - forget the
>>> journalist - an oxygen full cockpit makes everything inflammable.
>>
>> A local concentration of 24% or more oxygen is enough to make most
>> things combust readily.
>
> I thought earth had a higher percentage of O2 than that during
> the dynosaur era ?. This might explain how they got so big yet
> could still physically move themselves.

I thing it was 35% during the times of wet and tropical rainforest that led to
coal being laid down. At 35% even wet wood will burn.

--
HAL 9000: Dave. Put down those Windows disks. Dave. DAVE!

Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?

<t4mkrh$1jim$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: '''newsp...@nonad.co.uk (Martin Brown)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?
Date: Sun, 1 May 2022 19:51:28 +0100
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 by: Martin Brown - Sun, 1 May 2022 18:51 UTC

On 01/05/2022 15:25, Andrew wrote:
> On 27/04/2022 14:07, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 27/04/2022 10:07, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>>> On 27/04/2022 09:35, Davey wrote:
>>>>  From the Telegraph:

>>>> I thought that oxygen assisted combustion, but was not itself
>>>> flammable. It sounds like another case of somebody not knowing their
>>>> science, but that somebody is "The Official Investigator", who produced
>>>> the report.
>>>>
>>> I think it is you who does not know their science - forget the
>>> journalist - an oxygen full cockpit makes everything inflammable.
>>>
>>
>> A local concentration of 24% or more oxygen is enough to make most
>> things combust readily.
>
> I thought earth had a higher percentage of O2 than that during
> the dynosaur era ?. This might explain how they got so big yet
> could still physically move themselves.

Not a real problem for dinosaurs but it certainly influenced the maximum
size of airborne insects whose respiration its truly diffusion limited.

https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2010.0001

The limiting factor for how high oxygen levels in the atmosphere can get
on Earth is that natural forest fires become impossibly violent and
persistent when the atmosphere gets somewhere near 30% O2 no matter how
wet it might be. Think equatorial rain forest on steroids.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Insect breathing (was Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?)

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Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Insect breathing (was Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?)
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 by: Vir Campestris - Tue, 3 May 2022 20:52 UTC

On 01/05/2022 19:51, Martin Brown wrote:
>
> Not a real problem for dinosaurs but it certainly influenced the maximum
> size of airborne insects whose respiration its truly diffusion limited.
>
> https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2010.0001
>
> The limiting factor for how high oxygen levels in the atmosphere can get
> on Earth is that natural forest fires become impossibly violent and
> persistent when the atmosphere gets somewhere near 30% O2 no matter how
> wet it might be. Think equatorial rain forest on steroids.

I read that and was really surprised. It's been known for years

<https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjTuqG6mcT3AhVSdcAKHdfoCeQQFnoECBgQAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fjeb.biologists.org%2Fcontent%2F45%2F2%2F285.full.pdf&usg=AOvVaw2AWxgfdpAJtH8kyxp594vO>

if that link works that some larger insects use their wingbeats to
actively pump air into the muscles.

"In larger species the circulation of air in the primary tracheae is
brought about by abdominal pumping and by thoracic volume changes which
accompany each wing beat (thoracic pump)."

That paper is dated 1966...

Andy

Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?

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From: vir.camp...@invalid.invalid (Vir Campestris)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?
Date: Tue, 3 May 2022 22:02:46 +0100
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 by: Vir Campestris - Tue, 3 May 2022 21:02 UTC

On 30/04/2022 17:46, Martin Brown wrote:
> The most interesting effect of breathing oxygen at high altitude is that
> it makes the stars apparently go brighter when you take a breath.

Or perhaps one of the effects of hypoxia is that your eyesight begins to
fail and everything begins to go dark. Taking a breath of oxygen
restores your eyesight to normal.

Andy

Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?

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From: prufer.p...@mnet-online.de.invalid (Thomas Prufer)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?
Date: Sat, 07 May 2022 08:51:28 +0200
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 by: Thomas Prufer - Sat, 7 May 2022 06:51 UTC

On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 16:06:39 +0100, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:

>I recall an experiment and air burning in gas.

https://youtu.be/8jmX-TUQkx4

Burning Oxygen In Propane Atmosphere
1,865,116 views • Apr 17, 2018 • Strike a match in a pure hydrocarbon atmosphere
and nothing happens but what if you have a source of oxygen?

Thomas Prufer

Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?

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From: jgaines_...@yahoo.co.uk (Jeff Gaines)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?
Date: 7 May 2022 07:38:34 GMT
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 by: Jeff Gaines - Sat, 7 May 2022 07:38 UTC

On 07/05/2022 in message <8m5c7h5jai98fgqlp06jbc6djql5fgbsrv@4ax.com>
Thomas Prufer wrote:

>On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 16:06:39 +0100, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
>
>>I recall an experiment and air burning in gas.
>
>https://youtu.be/8jmX-TUQkx4
>
>Burning Oxygen In Propane Atmosphere
>1,865,116 views • Apr 17, 2018 • Strike a match in a pure hydrocarbon
>atmosphere
>and nothing happens but what if you have a source of oxygen?

That is hydrocarbons burning in an oxygen atmosphere surely?

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
The facts, although interesting, are irrelevant

Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?

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From: '''newsp...@nonad.co.uk (Martin Brown)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 09:38:46 +0100
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 by: Martin Brown - Sun, 8 May 2022 08:38 UTC

On 07/05/2022 08:38, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 07/05/2022 in message <8m5c7h5jai98fgqlp06jbc6djql5fgbsrv@4ax.com>
> Thomas Prufer wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 16:06:39 +0100, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> I recall an experiment and air burning in gas.
>>
>> https://youtu.be/8jmX-TUQkx4
>>
>> Burning Oxygen In Propane Atmosphere
>> 1,865,116 views • Apr 17, 2018 • Strike a match in a pure hydrocarbon
>> atmosphere
>> and nothing happens but what if you have a source of oxygen?
>
> That is hydrocarbons burning in an oxygen atmosphere surely?

He does propane in air first then purges the lines with CO2 and loads it
with a propane atmosphere and burns oxygen in it at about 5 mins in.

It burns hotter with a whiter flame and makes a different noise.
>
He wasn't able to get air to burn in propane though. Too much inert
nitrogen in the oxygen fuel to make it sustain a flame.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?

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From: jgaines_...@yahoo.co.uk (Jeff Gaines)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?
Date: 8 May 2022 09:34:49 GMT
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 by: Jeff Gaines - Sun, 8 May 2022 09:34 UTC

On 08/05/2022 in message <t57vim$6an$1@gioia.aioe.org> Martin Brown wrote:

>On 07/05/2022 08:38, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>On 07/05/2022 in message <8m5c7h5jai98fgqlp06jbc6djql5fgbsrv@4ax.com>
>>Thomas Prufer wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 16:06:39 +0100, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I recall an experiment and air burning in gas.
>>>
>>>https://youtu.be/8jmX-TUQkx4
>>>
>>>Burning Oxygen In Propane Atmosphere
>>>1,865,116 views • Apr 17, 2018 • Strike a match in a pure hydrocarbon
>>>atmosphere
>>>and nothing happens but what if you have a source of oxygen?
>>
>>That is hydrocarbons burning in an oxygen atmosphere surely?
>
>He does propane in air first then purges the lines with CO2 and loads it
>with a propane atmosphere and burns oxygen in it at about 5 mins in.
>
>It burns hotter with a whiter flame and makes a different noise.
>>
>He wasn't able to get air to burn in propane though. Too much inert
>nitrogen in the oxygen fuel to make it sustain a flame.

I still think that is wrong. Has he managed to burn oxygen in oxygen? That
would be conclusive.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
That's an amazing invention but who would ever want to use one of them?
(President Hayes speaking to Alexander Graham Bell on the invention of the
telephone)

Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?

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Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?
Date: Sun, 08 May 2022 10:53:26 +0100
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 by: Chris Hogg - Sun, 8 May 2022 09:53 UTC

On 8 May 2022 09:34:49 GMT, "Jeff Gaines" <jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 08/05/2022 in message <t57vim$6an$1@gioia.aioe.org> Martin Brown wrote:
>
>>On 07/05/2022 08:38, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>>On 07/05/2022 in message <8m5c7h5jai98fgqlp06jbc6djql5fgbsrv@4ax.com>
>>>Thomas Prufer wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Sat, 30 Apr 2022 16:06:39 +0100, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>I recall an experiment and air burning in gas.
>>>>
>>>>https://youtu.be/8jmX-TUQkx4
>>>>
>>>>Burning Oxygen In Propane Atmosphere
>>>>1,865,116 views • Apr 17, 2018 • Strike a match in a pure hydrocarbon
>>>>atmosphere
>>>>and nothing happens but what if you have a source of oxygen?
>>>
>>>That is hydrocarbons burning in an oxygen atmosphere surely?
>>
>>He does propane in air first then purges the lines with CO2 and loads it
>>with a propane atmosphere and burns oxygen in it at about 5 mins in.
>>
>>It burns hotter with a whiter flame and makes a different noise.
>>>
>>He wasn't able to get air to burn in propane though. Too much inert
>>nitrogen in the oxygen fuel to make it sustain a flame.
>
>I still think that is wrong. Has he managed to burn oxygen in oxygen? That
>would be conclusive.

I think your understanding of simple basic chemistry is zero.

--
Chris

Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?

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From: jgaines_...@yahoo.co.uk (Jeff Gaines)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?
Date: 8 May 2022 10:57:24 GMT
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 by: Jeff Gaines - Sun, 8 May 2022 10:57 UTC

On 08/05/2022 in message <nf4f7h5pdobmdc7iinp9l9hnels0ll4ofm@4ax.com>
Chris Hogg wrote:

>>>He wasn't able to get air to burn in propane though. Too much inert
>>>nitrogen in the oxygen fuel to make it sustain a flame.
>>
>>I still think that is wrong. Has he managed to burn oxygen in oxygen? That
>>would be conclusive.
>
>I think your understanding of simple basic chemistry is zero.

You're entitled to your views but it doesn't alter the fact that oxygen
doesn't burn.

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists
or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies.

Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?

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From: tnp...@invalid.invalid (The Natural Philosopher)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 14:18:36 +0100
Organization: A little, after lunch
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 by: The Natural Philosop - Sun, 8 May 2022 13:18 UTC

On 08/05/2022 11:57, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 08/05/2022 in message <nf4f7h5pdobmdc7iinp9l9hnels0ll4ofm@4ax.com>
> Chris Hogg wrote:
>
>>>> He wasn't able to get air to burn in propane though. Too much inert
>>>> nitrogen in the oxygen fuel to make it sustain a flame.
>>>
>>> I still think that is wrong. Has he managed to burn oxygen in oxygen?
>>> That
>>> would be conclusive.
>>
>> I think your understanding of simple basic chemistry is zero.
>
> You're entitled to your views but it doesn't alter the fact that oxygen
> doesn't burn.
>
Nothing burns.

It takes two to tango.

--
“Ideas are inherently conservative. They yield not to the attack of
other ideas but to the massive onslaught of circumstance"

- John K Galbraith

Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?

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Subject: Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?
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 by: Chris Hogg - Sun, 8 May 2022 13:39 UTC

On 8 May 2022 10:57:24 GMT, "Jeff Gaines" <jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 08/05/2022 in message <nf4f7h5pdobmdc7iinp9l9hnels0ll4ofm@4ax.com>
>Chris Hogg wrote:
>
>>>>He wasn't able to get air to burn in propane though. Too much inert
>>>>nitrogen in the oxygen fuel to make it sustain a flame.
>>>
>>>I still think that is wrong. Has he managed to burn oxygen in oxygen? That
>>>would be conclusive.
>>
>>I think your understanding of simple basic chemistry is zero.
>
>You're entitled to your views but it doesn't alter the fact that oxygen
>doesn't burn.

3O2 --> 2O3. Oxygen 'burning'.

--
Chris

Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?

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From: timstrea...@greenbee.net (Tim Streater)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?
Date: 8 May 2022 14:29:06 GMT
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 by: Tim Streater - Sun, 8 May 2022 14:29 UTC

On 08 May 2022 at 11:57:24 BST, "Jeff Gaines" <jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

> On 08/05/2022 in message <nf4f7h5pdobmdc7iinp9l9hnels0ll4ofm@4ax.com>
> Chris Hogg wrote:
>
>>>> He wasn't able to get air to burn in propane though. Too much inert
>>>> nitrogen in the oxygen fuel to make it sustain a flame.
>>>
>>> I still think that is wrong. Has he managed to burn oxygen in oxygen? That
>>> would be conclusive.
>>
>> I think your understanding of simple basic chemistry is zero.
>
> You're entitled to your views but it doesn't alter the fact that oxygen
> doesn't burn.

What's your definition of "burn"?

Oxygen will burn in a hydro-carbon atmosphere.

--
Lady Astor: "Winston, you are drunk!"
Churchill: "And you, madam, are ugly. But I shall be sober in the morning."

Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?

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From: jgaines_...@yahoo.co.uk (Jeff Gaines)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?
Date: 8 May 2022 14:35:57 GMT
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 by: Jeff Gaines - Sun, 8 May 2022 14:35 UTC

On 08/05/2022 in message <jdq2diFr3t5U1@mid.individual.net> Tim Streater
wrote:

>On 08 May 2022 at 11:57:24 BST, "Jeff Gaines" <jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>On 08/05/2022 in message <nf4f7h5pdobmdc7iinp9l9hnels0ll4ofm@4ax.com>
>>Chris Hogg wrote:
>>
>>>>>He wasn't able to get air to burn in propane though. Too much inert
>>>>>nitrogen in the oxygen fuel to make it sustain a flame.
>>>>
>>>>I still think that is wrong. Has he managed to burn oxygen in oxygen?
>>>>That
>>>>would be conclusive.
>>>
>>>I think your understanding of simple basic chemistry is zero.
>>
>>You're entitled to your views but it doesn't alter the fact that oxygen
>>doesn't burn.
>
>What's your definition of "burn"?
>
>Oxygen will burn in a hydro-carbon atmosphere.

We've been there up the thread somewhere, it's vice versa. As I have said
the test is will oxygen burn in oxygen, i.e. on its own, and the answer is
"no".

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
If you ever find something you like buy a lifetime supply because they
will stop making it

Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?

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From: timstrea...@greenbee.net (Tim Streater)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?
Date: 8 May 2022 14:40:34 GMT
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 by: Tim Streater - Sun, 8 May 2022 14:40 UTC

On 08 May 2022 at 15:35:57 BST, "Jeff Gaines" <jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:

> On 08/05/2022 in message <jdq2diFr3t5U1@mid.individual.net> Tim Streater
> wrote:
>
>> On 08 May 2022 at 11:57:24 BST, "Jeff Gaines" <jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/05/2022 in message <nf4f7h5pdobmdc7iinp9l9hnels0ll4ofm@4ax.com>
>>> Chris Hogg wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> He wasn't able to get air to burn in propane though. Too much inert
>>>>>> nitrogen in the oxygen fuel to make it sustain a flame.
>>>>>
>>>>> I still think that is wrong. Has he managed to burn oxygen in oxygen?
>>>>> That would be conclusive.
>>>>
>>>> I think your understanding of simple basic chemistry is zero.
>>>
>>> You're entitled to your views but it doesn't alter the fact that oxygen
>>> doesn't burn.
>>
>> What's your definition of "burn"?
>>
>> Oxygen will burn in a hydro-carbon atmosphere.
>
> We've been there up the thread somewhere, it's vice versa. As I have said
> the test is will oxygen burn in oxygen, i.e. on its own, and the answer is
> "no".

You can burn oxygen in a star to produce silicon, phosphorus, or sulphur, but
you need a temperature of at least 1.5 billyun K to do so.

NB, chemical burning, which is what we're actually talking about, always
involves at least two separate substances, so to talk about "burning oxygen in
oxygen" is meaningless.

--
Britain sitting behind the protectionist wall of the Customs Union is doing absolutely nothing for the oppressed coffee bean growers of the developing world. How ironic then that the cappuccino-swilling hordes of Hove voted in large numbers to keep some of the world's poorest people and traders locked out of our markets.

Tom Bewick - Labour councillor in Brighton and Hove

Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?

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From: '''newsp...@nonad.co.uk (Martin Brown)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 16:22:06 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Martin Brown - Sun, 8 May 2022 15:22 UTC

On 08/05/2022 11:57, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 08/05/2022 in message <nf4f7h5pdobmdc7iinp9l9hnels0ll4ofm@4ax.com>
> Chris Hogg wrote:
>
>>>> He wasn't able to get air to burn in propane though. Too much inert
>>>> nitrogen in the oxygen fuel to make it sustain a flame.
>>>
>>> I still think that is wrong. Has he managed to burn oxygen in oxygen?
>>> That
>>> would be conclusive.
>>
>> I think your understanding of simple basic chemistry is zero.

+1

> You're entitled to your views but it doesn't alter the fact that oxygen
> doesn't burn.

It does in a reducing atmosphere. The oxygen becomes the fuel.

Or rather for something to burn you need a fuel, an oxidiser and a
source of ignition (in this case a spark).

Burn propane in air and you get a yellow sooty flame.

Pure propane on its own + spark and you get a bit of carbon soot.

Burn oxygen in propane and you get a bright white noisy flame.

Watch the damn video and pay attention this time! Oxygen burning in a
propane atmosphere starts at about 5 minutes in and the flame
characteristics are entirely different since it is an oxygen rich core
into propane and burns considerably hotter than propane in air.

He couldn't make air burn in propane using a spark as ignition even with
a wad of glass fibre to give the flame something to catch on.

ISTR it used to be a cute demo in school chemistry lab open days before
health and safety became so strict. Air burning in towns gas and towns
gas burning in air inside a shaped glass container. Capable of exploding
too if you didn't let the glass container purge properly.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?

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From: '''newsp...@nonad.co.uk (Martin Brown)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: OT: Oxygen catching fire?
Date: Sun, 8 May 2022 16:43:37 +0100
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 by: Martin Brown - Sun, 8 May 2022 15:43 UTC

On 08/05/2022 15:35, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 08/05/2022 in message <jdq2diFr3t5U1@mid.individual.net> Tim Streater
> wrote:
>
>> On 08 May 2022 at 11:57:24 BST, "Jeff Gaines"
>> <jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 08/05/2022 in message <nf4f7h5pdobmdc7iinp9l9hnels0ll4ofm@4ax.com>
>>> Chris Hogg wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> He wasn't able to get air to burn in propane though. Too much inert
>>>>>> nitrogen in the oxygen fuel to make it sustain a flame.
>>>>>
>>>>> I still think that is wrong. Has he managed to burn oxygen in
>>>>> oxygen? That
>>>>> would be conclusive.
>>>>
>>>> I think your understanding of simple basic chemistry is zero.
>>>
>>> You're entitled to your views but it doesn't alter the fact that oxygen
>>> doesn't burn.
>>
>> What's your definition of "burn"?
>>
>> Oxygen will burn in a hydro-carbon atmosphere.
>
> We've been there up the thread somewhere, it's vice versa. As I have
> said the test is will oxygen burn in oxygen, i.e. on its own, and the
> answer is "no".

You could react oxygen with fluorine. Fluorine is the oxidiser.
Fluorine will oxidise oxygen (and many more things beside).

The reaction is spontaneous at STP you smell oxides of fluorine whenever
elemental fluorine is made. Amazingly Prof Haszeldine made some from a
eutectic molten salt mix in a lecture theatre in Manchester for a public
lecture. On quite a big scale - it would never be permitted today!

Don't even need a spark for things to react with fluorine gas.

Many more things will burn in ClF3 than in oxygen. Glass for instance!

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2015/07/chlorine-trifluoride-aka-chemical-can-set-fire-glass/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1FsO5zaf6M

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

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