My local council posted on their own web site and in the local social
media groups warnings about email scammers asking for bank details for
the £150 energy tax return.

Although they seem to have dealt with a large number of DD refunds they
seem to be in trouble with DD refunds that have bounced (perhaps names
not matching - change of names because of marriage etc.). They also seem
to be in a bureaucratic mess with retuning money to people who pay their
council tax by other means.

They are now asking people via email for bank details - the very thing a
month ago they were saying that people shouldn't do if they received an
email wanting these details. No wonder scammers find it so easy!

Who could have predicted that such a convoluted method of returning
money would lead to problems, perhaps not for those use DD but for the 2
millions without a bank account or those who chose to pay by a different
means?

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> Who could have predicted that such a convoluted method of returning
> money would lead to problems, perhaps not for those use DD but for the 2
> millions without a bank account or those who chose to pay by a different
> means?

What baffles me is that for those not on DD, the easiest way
for the rebate (as mediated by your council tax bill) would be
for the council to send a new bill with the rebate deducted
from the total. In almost all cases, surely, for those with
non-zero council tax bills, they don't have to hand out money
at all -- they just have to ask for less than usual. Or is
there something I have misunderstood?

As far as I remeber the timings, my council could probably
have tweaked the *original* bill itself; unless, I suppose,
they have a particularly unweildy billing system.

#Paul

On 17/05/2022 19:13, #Paul wrote:
> alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> Who could have predicted that such a convoluted method of returning
>> money would lead to problems, perhaps not for those use DD but for the 2
>> millions without a bank account or those who chose to pay by a different
>> means?
>
> What baffles me is that for those not on DD, the easiest way
> for the rebate (as mediated by your council tax bill) would be
> for the council to send a new bill with the rebate deducted
> from the total. In almost all cases, surely, for those with
> non-zero council tax bills, they don't have to hand out money
> at all -- they just have to ask for less than usual. Or is
> there something I have misunderstood?
>
> As far as I remeber the timings, my council could probably
> have tweaked the *original* bill itself; unless, I suppose,
> they have a particularly unweildy billing system.
>
When I received this year's council bill, the £150 was shown as deducted
from the total due.

On 17/05/2022 19:50, S Viemeister wrote:
> On 17/05/2022 19:13, #Paul wrote:
>> alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Who could have predicted that such a convoluted method of returning
>>> money would lead to problems, perhaps not for those use DD but for the 2
>>> millions without a bank account or those who chose to pay by a different
>>> means?
>>
>> What baffles me is that for those not on DD, the easiest way
>> for the rebate (as mediated by your council tax bill) would be
>> for the council to send a new bill with the rebate deducted
>> from the total. In almost all cases, surely, for those with
>> non-zero council tax bills, they don't have to hand out money
>> at all -- they just have to ask for less than usual. Or is
>> there something I have misunderstood?
>>
>> As far as I remeber the timings, my council could probably
>> have tweaked the *original* bill itself; unless, I suppose,
>> they have a particularly unweildy billing system.
>>
> When I received this year's council bill, the £150 was shown as deducted
> from the total due.
>

Different strokes for different folks. AIUI LAs in Scotland were given
discretion as to how to make the payments and most did what yours did.
Different in England where the central gov line was:

"The rebate will be provided as a separate payment, rather than as part
of your council tax bill.

This allows the support to be provided to households more quickly,
rather than the benefit being spread as a discount across the usual 10
or 12 council tax bill instalments during 2022-23. It also means that
households that do not pay council tax - for example, if they are exempt
or have nil liability - are not disadvantaged."

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Wed, 18 May 2022 06:52:13 +1000, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:

> On 17/05/2022 19:50, S Viemeister wrote:
>> On 17/05/2022 19:13, #Paul wrote:
>>> alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> Who could have predicted that such a convoluted method of returning
>>>> money would lead to problems, perhaps not for those use DD but for
>>>> the 2
>>>> millions without a bank account or those who chose to pay by a
>>>> different
>>>> means?
>>>
>>> What baffles me is that for those not on DD, the easiest way
>>> for the rebate (as mediated by your council tax bill) would be
>>> for the council to send a new bill with the rebate deducted
>>> from the total. In almost all cases, surely, for those with
>>> non-zero council tax bills, they don't have to hand out money
>>> at all -- they just have to ask for less than usual. Or is
>>> there something I have misunderstood?
>>>
>>> As far as I remeber the timings, my council could probably
>>> have tweaked the *original* bill itself; unless, I suppose,
>>> they have a particularly unweildy billing system.
>>>
>> When I received this year's council bill, the £150 was shown as
>> deducted from the total due.

> Different strokes for different folks.

Its the only sensible way to do it. Costs peanuts that way.

Every other way has a stupid cost.

> AIUI LAs in Scotland were given discretion as to how to make the
> payments and most did what yours did. Different in England where the
> central gov line was:

> "The rebate will be provided as a separate payment, rather than as part
> of your council tax bill.

Stupidly to make it more visible, stupid.

> This allows the support to be provided to households more quickly,
> rather than the benefit being spread as a discount across the usual 10
> or 12 council tax bill instalments during 2022-23. It also means that
> households that do not pay council tax - for example, if they are exempt
> or have nil liability - are not disadvantaged."

No reason why they can't be paid differently, stupid.

On 18/05/2022 00:46, lacksey wrote:
> stupid.

Yes, Rodders, you really are.

--
Climate is what you expect but weather is what you get.
Mark Twain

On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 8:12:00 AM UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
> My local council posted on their own web site and in the local social
> media groups warnings about email scammers asking for bank details for
> the £150 energy tax return.
>
> Although they seem to have dealt with a large number of DD refunds they
> seem to be in trouble with DD refunds that have bounced (perhaps names
> not matching - change of names because of marriage etc.). They also seem
> to be in a bureaucratic mess with retuning money to people who pay their
> council tax by other means.
>
> They are now asking people via email for bank details - the very thing a
> month ago they were saying that people shouldn't do if they received an
> email wanting these details. No wonder scammers find it so easy!
>
> Who could have predicted that such a convoluted method of returning
> money would lead to problems, perhaps not for those use DD but for the 2
> millions without a bank account or those who chose to pay by a different
> means?
>
>
> --
> mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

In days gone by when you gave someone a cheque , that would show all you banking details, name, account number, bank sort code etc

On 18 May 2022 at 11:36:22 BST, fred <tpmccann@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 8:12:00 AM UTC+1, alan_m wrote:
>> My local council posted on their own web site and in the local social
>> media groups warnings about email scammers asking for bank details for
>> the £150 energy tax return.
>>
>> Although they seem to have dealt with a large number of DD refunds they
>> seem to be in trouble with DD refunds that have bounced (perhaps names
>> not matching - change of names because of marriage etc.). They also seem
>> to be in a bureaucratic mess with retuning money to people who pay their
>> council tax by other means.
>>
>> They are now asking people via email for bank details - the very thing a
>> month ago they were saying that people shouldn't do if they received an
>> email wanting these details. No wonder scammers find it so easy!
>>
>> Who could have predicted that such a convoluted method of returning
>> money would lead to problems, perhaps not for those use DD but for the 2
>> millions without a bank account or those who chose to pay by a different
>> means?
>
> In days gone by when you gave someone a cheque , that would show all you banking details, name, account number, bank sort code etc

Still does, but typically you know who you've given a cheque to.

--
"That excessive bail ought not to be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted" -- Bill of Rights 1689

On 18/05/2022 14:30, Tim Streater wrote:
> On 18 May 2022 at 11:36:22 BST, fred <tpmccann@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, May 14, 2022 at 8:12:00 AM UTC+1, alan_m wrote:

>>> Who could have predicted that such a convoluted method of returning
>>> money would lead to problems, perhaps not for those use DD but for the 2
>>> millions without a bank account or those who chose to pay by a different
>>> means?
>>
>> In days gone by when you gave someone a cheque , that would show all you banking details, name, account number, bank sort code etc
>
> Still does, but typically you know who you've given a cheque to.
>

The difference is that you don't put your account password on a cheque!

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
> Different strokes for different folks. AIUI LAs in Scotland were given
> discretion as to how to make the payments and most did what yours did.
> Different in England where the central gov line was:
>
> "The rebate will be provided as a separate payment, rather than as part
> of your council tax bill.
>
> This allows the support to be provided to households more quickly,
> rather than the benefit being spread as a discount across the usual 10
> or 12 council tax bill instalments during 2022-23. It also means that
> households that do not pay council tax - for example, if they are exempt
> or have nil liability - are not disadvantaged."

It might indeed "allow" support to be provided to households more
quickly, but since it nevertheless does nothing to *ensure* that
support actually is provided more quickly, it is therefore useless
for that purpose. If I were to wear my cynics hat, I might be
inclined to believe that its very purpose was just such a delay.

I'm not that bothered about exactly when the rebate will turn up
myself; but am not impressed that those who might need it have to
wait for some undefined period for something - presumably - to
eventually happen.

#Paul

On 18/05/2022 19:04, #Paul wrote:
> Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>> Different strokes for different folks. AIUI LAs in Scotland were given
>> discretion as to how to make the payments and most did what yours did.
>> Different in England where the central gov line was:
>>
>> "The rebate will be provided as a separate payment, rather than as part
>> of your council tax bill.
>>
>> This allows the support to be provided to households more quickly,
>> rather than the benefit being spread as a discount across the usual 10
>> or 12 council tax bill instalments during 2022-23. It also means that
>> households that do not pay council tax - for example, if they are exempt
>> or have nil liability - are not disadvantaged."
>
> It might indeed "allow" support to be provided to households more
> quickly, but since it nevertheless does nothing to *ensure* that
> support actually is provided more quickly, it is therefore useless
> for that purpose. If I were to wear my cynics hat, I might be
> inclined to believe that its very purpose was just such a delay.
>
> I'm not that bothered about exactly when the rebate will turn up
> myself; but am not impressed that those who might need it have to
> wait for some undefined period for something - presumably - to
> eventually happen.
>
> #Paul
>

I've read that maybe the councils have until September to pay the money.
My local council paid by DD on 4th April BUT for those who pay their
council tax by other means and those where the DD has failed the saga
continues.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On 18/05/2022 21:47, alan_m wrote:
> On 18/05/2022 19:04, #Paul wrote:
>> Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>>> Different strokes for different folks.  AIUI LAs in Scotland were given
>>> discretion as to how to make the payments and most did what yours did.
>>> Different in England where the central gov line was:
>>>
>>> "The rebate will be provided as a separate payment, rather than as part
>>> of your council tax bill.
>>>
>>> This allows the support to be provided to households more quickly,
>>> rather than the benefit being spread as a discount across the usual 10
>>> or 12 council tax bill instalments during 2022-23. It also means that
>>> households that do not pay council tax - for example, if they are exempt
>>> or have nil liability - are not disadvantaged."
>>
>> It might indeed "allow" support to be provided to households more
>> quickly, but since it nevertheless does nothing to *ensure* that
>> support actually is provided more quickly, it is therefore useless
>> for that purpose. If I were to wear my cynics hat, I might be
>> inclined to believe that its very purpose was just such a delay.
>>
>> I'm not that bothered about exactly when the rebate will turn up
>> myself; but am not impressed that those who might need it have to
>> wait for some undefined period for something - presumably - to
>> eventually happen.
>>
>> #Paul
>>
>
>
> I've read that maybe the councils have until September to pay the money.
> My local council paid by DD on 4th April BUT for those who pay their
> council tax by other means and those where the DD has failed the saga
> continues.
>

Mine paid on 27th April. Would be interesting to know if councils are
stalling based on politics.

On 19/05/2022 06:01, Richard wrote:
> On 18/05/2022 21:47, alan_m wrote:
# >>
>>
>> I've read that maybe the councils have until September to pay the
>> money. My local council paid by DD on 4th April BUT for those who pay
>> their council tax by other means and those where the DD has failed the
>> saga continues.
>>

Correction : 4th May

>
> Mine paid on 27th April. Would be interesting to know if councils are
> stalling based on politics.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

Richard <smithski@btinternet.com.invalid> wrote:
> Mine paid on 27th April. Would be interesting to know if
> councils are stalling based on politics.

I would imagine stalling based on not even having enough money
to cover their various pre-existing statutory obligations would
be more like it. But it might depend on the council.

#Paul

On 19/05/2022 08:39, #Paul wrote:
> Richard <smithski@btinternet.com.invalid> wrote:
>> Mine paid on 27th April. Would be interesting to know if
>> councils are stalling based on politics.
>
> I would imagine stalling based on not even having enough money
> to cover their various pre-existing statutory obligations would
> be more like it. But it might depend on the council.
>
> #Paul

So, political then.

Richard <smithski@btinternet.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 19/05/2022 08:39, #Paul wrote:
>> Richard <smithski@btinternet.com.invalid> wrote:
>>> Mine paid on 27th April. Would be interesting to know if
>>> councils are stalling based on politics.
>>
>> I would imagine stalling based on not even having enough money
>> to cover their various pre-existing statutory obligations would
>> be more like it. But it might depend on the council.
>>
>> #Paul
>
> So, political then.

No.

#Paul

On 20/05/2022 18:27, #Paul wrote:
> Richard <smithski@btinternet.com.invalid> wrote:
>> On 19/05/2022 08:39, #Paul wrote:
>>> Richard <smithski@btinternet.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> Mine paid on 27th April. Would be interesting to know if
>>>> councils are stalling based on politics.
>>>
>>> I would imagine stalling based on not even having enough money
>>> to cover their various pre-existing statutory obligations would
>>> be more like it. But it might depend on the council.
>>>
>>> #Paul
>>
>> So, political then.
>
> No.
>
> #Paul
>

It depends on the council. Councils are politically biased so it is
political.