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aus+uk / uk.d-i-y / Re: Temporary electricity supply.

SubjectAuthor
* Temporary electricity supply.Dave Plowman (News)
+* Re: Temporary electricity supply.N_Cook
|`- Re: Temporary electricity supply.Andrew
+- Re: Temporary electricity supply.Colin Bignell
+* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Robin
|`* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Theo
| `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.ARW
|  +* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Robin
|  |`* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Mark Carver
|  | +- Re: Temporary electricity supply.Robin
|  | `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Theo
|  |  `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.SH
|  |   `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Colin Bignell
|  |    +* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Robin
|  |    |+* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Theo
|  |    ||`* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Animal
|  |    || `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Dave Plowman (News)
|  |    ||  +* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Theo
|  |    ||  |+* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Robin
|  |    ||  ||`- Re: Temporary electricity supply.Theo
|  |    ||  |`* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Dave Plowman (News)
|  |    ||  | `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Robin
|  |    ||  |  `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Dave Plowman (News)
|  |    ||  |   +* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Andrew
|  |    ||  |   |`* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Colin Bignell
|  |    ||  |   | `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Dave Plowman (News)
|  |    ||  |   |  `- Re: Temporary electricity supply.Colin Bignell
|  |    ||  |   `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.ARW
|  |    ||  |    `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Dave Plowman (News)
|  |    ||  |     `- Re: Temporary electricity supply.ARW
|  |    ||  `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Colin Bignell
|  |    ||   `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Animal
|  |    ||    `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Colin Bignell
|  |    ||     +* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Animal
|  |    ||     |`* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Colin Bignell
|  |    ||     | +- Re: Temporary electricity supply.Dave Plowman (News)
|  |    ||     | `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Theo
|  |    ||     |  +- Re: Temporary electricity supply.Dave Plowman (News)
|  |    ||     |  +- Re: Temporary electricity supply.Colin Bignell
|  |    ||     |  `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.ARW
|  |    ||     |   `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Dave Plowman (News)
|  |    ||     |    `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.ARW
|  |    ||     |     `- Re: Temporary electricity supply.Dave Plowman (News)
|  |    ||     `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Andrew
|  |    ||      `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Colin Bignell
|  |    ||       +* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Animal
|  |    ||       |`- Re: Temporary electricity supply.Colin Bignell
|  |    ||       +* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Dave Plowman (News)
|  |    ||       |+- Re: Temporary electricity supply.Andrew
|  |    ||       |`* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Colin Bignell
|  |    ||       | +* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Rod Speed
|  |    ||       | |+- Re: Temporary electricity supply.Rod Speed
|  |    ||       | |`* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Colin Bignell
|  |    ||       | | +* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Rod Speed
|  |    ||       | | |`* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Colin Bignell
|  |    ||       | | | +- Re: Temporary electricity supply.Rod Speed
|  |    ||       | | | `- Re: Temporary electricity supply.Dave Plowman (News)
|  |    ||       | | `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Paul
|  |    ||       | |  `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.John Walliker
|  |    ||       | |   +* Re: Temporary electricity supply.lacksey
|  |    ||       | |   |`* Re: Temporary electricity supply.RJH
|  |    ||       | |   | +* Re: Temporary electricity supply.John Walliker
|  |    ||       | |   | |`- Re: Temporary electricity supply.RJH
|  |    ||       | |   | `- Re: Temporary electricity supply.Andrew
|  |    ||       | |   `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Paul
|  |    ||       | |    `- Re: Temporary electricity supply.John Walliker
|  |    ||       | `- Re: Temporary electricity supply.Theo
|  |    ||       `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.ARW
|  |    ||        `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Colin Bignell
|  |    ||         `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.ARW
|  |    ||          +* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Andrew
|  |    ||          |`* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Animal
|  |    ||          | `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Colin Bignell
|  |    ||          |  +* Re: Temporary electricity supply.The Natural Philosopher
|  |    ||          |  |`* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Colin Bignell
|  |    ||          |  | `- Re: Temporary electricity supply.The Natural Philosopher
|  |    ||          |  +* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Andrew
|  |    ||          |  |+- Re: Temporary electricity supply.Colin Bignell
|  |    ||          |  |`* Re: Temporary electricity supply.charles
|  |    ||          |  | `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Tim Lamb
|  |    ||          |  |  `- Re: Temporary electricity supply.Robin
|  |    ||          |  `- Re: Temporary electricity supply.Dave Plowman (News)
|  |    ||          +- Re: Temporary electricity supply.Bev
|  |    ||          `- Re: Temporary electricity supply.jkn
|  |    |`* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Dave Plowman (News)
|  |    | `- Re: Temporary electricity supply.lacksey
|  |    `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Andrew
|  |     `- Re: Temporary electricity supply.Colin Bignell
|  `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Theo
|   `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Andrew
|    `- Re: Temporary electricity supply.ARW
+* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Tim+
|`* Re: Temporary electricity supply.lacksey
| `- Re: Temporary electricity supply.Tim+
+- Re: Temporary electricity supply.Andrew
+* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Animal
|`* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Andrew
| `* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Animal
|  `- Re: Temporary electricity supply.Rod Speed
+* Re: Temporary electricity supply.John J
|`* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Dave Plowman (News)
`* Re: Temporary electricity supply.Dave Plowman (News)

Pages:12345
Re: Temporary electricity supply.

<op.1l8lmzf1byq249@pvr2.lan>

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Temporary electricity supply.
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 11:12:25 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Mon, 16 May 2022 01:12 UTC

On Mon, 16 May 2022 08:08:01 +1000, Animal <tabbypurr@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Saturday, 14 May 2022 at 19:07:06 UTC+1, Andrew wrote:
>> On 12/05/2022 22:13, Animal wrote:
>> > On Thursday, 12 May 2022 at 11:11:18 UTC+1, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> >> Back story.
>> >> Next door neighbour is a widow near 90 living on her own. Very
>> stubborn.
>> >> Was born in her house and wants to die in it. Totally housebound and
>> won't
>> >> have any visitors since Covid. So haven't even spoken to her for a
>> couple
>> >> of years. Sad, as we got on well enough. She has family who call in
>> every
>> >> day, though.
>> >>
>> >> Last week a pipe in the cellar split and flooded it - and next door's
>> >> cellar too. Daughter waded into the cellar to turn off the water and
>> got a
>> >> bad electric shock. Ended up in A&E - but on the mend now.
>> >>
>> >> Service suppliers cut off both the water and electricity. Insurance
>> are
>> >> meant to be pumping out the water, but nothing done as yet.
>> >>
>> >> Son in law has been keeping me updated. When he said the power was
>> off, I
>> >> ran a cable reel to their kitchen from my house (fed from an MCBO
>> >> protected ring) So at least she can watch TV - the only thing she
>> does
>> >> now. And a table light and the microwave. So she can have hot drinks
>> and
>> >> meals. Using bottled water, etc. Her cooker is electric, but does
>> have a
>> >> gas fire in the kitchen which works.
>> >>
>> >> She refuses to go in a home of any sort. Her kids simply don't have
>> room
>> >> for her - and she is adamant she doesn't want to live with either of
>> them
>> >> anyway (I'm told) One of the daughters has lost patience and hardly
>> ever
>> >> calls.
>> >>
>> >> The pipe should be easy enough to fix once the cellar is dry enough.
>> >>
>> >> The electrics I know to be a total loss - all the lighting is
>> pre-WW2, but
>> >> a ring was added by her husband in the 60s. And she isn't willing to
>> pay
>> >> for a re-wire or put up with the disruption it would cause. A quote
>> one of
>> >> the kids got was 12K.
>> >>
>> >> Is it possible to get a temporary supply laid on? If only the ring
>> was
>> >> connected to it that would be good enough for now.
>> >>
>> >> She has agreed to move to a smaller place if one can be found
>> nearby. And
>> >> sell the house to pay for it. But I reckon something needs to be done
>> >> sooner to make life bearable until then - ie just the same for her
>> as it
>> >> has been for the past two years. As moving is likely not going to be
>> done
>> >> quickly.
>> >
>> > 12k is nuts, unless it's a real large house.
>>
>>
>> It's London, and the house is probably worth £500K+ even in that state.
>> London Tradesmen quote 'appropriately' :-(
>
> Might be worth getting a quote from someone way outside the area. Maybe
> somewhere relatively deprived.

Or very depraved like Adam.

Re: Temporary electricity supply.

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Subject: Re: Temporary electricity supply.
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<59e7f7e5c2dave@davenoise.co.uk> <7cx*sP5Ny@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
<59e86e78f3dave@davenoise.co.uk>
<631f4b23-b162-b593-638b-80b61df64e20@outlook.com>
<59e87c0985dave@davenoise.co.uk> <t5oqih$1brn$1@gioia.aioe.org>
From: cpb...@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk (Colin Bignell)
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 by: Colin Bignell - Mon, 16 May 2022 10:56 UTC

On 14/05/2022 18:57, Andrew wrote:
> On 14/05/2022 14:55, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> In article <631f4b23-b162-b593-638b-80b61df64e20@outlook.com>,
>>     Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>>>> My guess is there was current flow to the only ground - to the water
>>>> pipe. And the daughter standing in water made a better path to ground.
>>>> I've not been down there to look at things, though. could be the earth
>>>> connection is on the wrong side of the stopcock - which was installed
>>>> later, I've been told.
>>>>
>>
>>> I had wondered about that when you said the flood didn't reach the
>>> cut-out etc.  And wondered too if water mains (and communication pipes)
>>> had been replaced.
>>
>> I simply dunno. The water main from street into my house is still lead.
>>
>
> Good job London has really hard water then :-)

I remember cutting out a section of lead water pipe in London. It looked
like the cautionary pictures of furred up arteries.

--
Colin Bignell

Re: Temporary electricity supply.

<59e985f12edave@davenoise.co.uk>

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Temporary electricity supply.
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 15:19:47 +0100
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Mon, 16 May 2022 14:19 UTC

Latest part of the saga.

Plumber (Pimlico) refuses to repair the pipe due to unsafe working
conditions - flooded cellar. And won't pump it out due to the stuff stored
there - says it has to be cleared first. Next door got theirs pumped out
with no problems - despite obviously having things stored there too.

Due to no water to flush the toilet, they've got her a commode. And have
lifted the manhole cover to the drains (in the back garden) and are
emptying it into that. And have put a wire cover over the hole for
'safety'. I've not had any smells yet - but give it time. Although that
manhole is very close to the other neighbour, so they might get the
results first.

I'm also thinking me providing an electricity supply might be actually
making things worse in the end.

--
*Be nice to your kids. They'll choose your nursing home.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Temporary electricity supply.

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From: Andrew97...@mybtinternet.com (Andrew)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Temporary electricity supply.
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 15:23:51 +0100
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 by: Andrew - Mon, 16 May 2022 14:23 UTC

On 16/05/2022 15:19, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> Latest part of the saga.
>
> Plumber (Pimlico) refuses to repair the pipe due to unsafe working
> conditions - flooded cellar. And won't pump it out due to the stuff stored
> there - says it has to be cleared first. Next door got theirs pumped out
> with no problems - despite obviously having things stored there too.
>
> Due to no water to flush the toilet, they've got her a commode. And have
> lifted the manhole cover to the drains (in the back garden) and are
> emptying it into that. And have put a wire cover over the hole for
> 'safety'. I've not had any smells yet - but give it time. Although that
> manhole is very close to the other neighbour, so they might get the
> results first.
>
> I'm also thinking me providing an electricity supply might be actually
> making things worse in the end.
>

Pimlico plumbers !!. Good job the insurance co is paying the bill.

Re: Temporary electricity supply.

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Temporary electricity supply.
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 15:30:58 +0100
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Mon, 16 May 2022 14:30 UTC

In article <U4KdnT0mnd54sB__nZ2dnUU7-SednZ2d@giganews.com>,
Colin Bignell <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
> I remember cutting out a section of lead water pipe in London. It looked
> like the cautionary pictures of furred up arteries.

Most of the plumbing in this house was lead too when I bought it. And as
you say, cutting it showed a nice coating of 'lime' inside the pipe.
Making the lead safe. Since my pressure and flow are OK I've left it as
lead up to the stopcock in the cellar. Had fun wiping copper to lead first
time I'd tried this - to fit a new stopcock. All copper after it now.

The odd thing about lead is my brother lives in a soft water area - NE of
Scotland. And his ancient house has a lead feeder too. But has had the
water checked, and OK. Perhaps that soft water has something else in it
which causes a coating?

--
*And don't start a sentence with a conjunction *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Temporary electricity supply.

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 by: Colin Bignell - Mon, 16 May 2022 15:22 UTC

On 16/05/2022 15:19, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> Latest part of the saga.
>
> Plumber (Pimlico) refuses to repair the pipe due to unsafe working
> conditions - flooded cellar. And won't pump it out due to the stuff stored
> there - says it has to be cleared first. Next door got theirs pumped out
> with no problems - despite obviously having things stored there too...

Perhaps London Fire Brigade might help for a bit of positive publicity.
Otherwise, do you know anybody with a boat who would lend you a
submersible sump pump? It wouldn't be as quick as Fire Engine pump, but
it would empty it eventually.

--
Colin Bignell

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Temporary electricity supply.
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 01:48:48 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Mon, 16 May 2022 15:48 UTC

Colin Bignell <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote
> Dave Plowman (News) wrote

>> Latest part of the saga.

>> Plumber (Pimlico) refuses to repair the pipe due to unsafe working
>> conditions - flooded cellar. And won't pump it out due to the stuff
>> stored
>> there - says it has to be cleared first. Next door got theirs pumped out
>> with no problems - despite obviously having things stored there too...
>
> Perhaps London Fire Brigade might help for a bit of positive publicity.
> Otherwise, do you know anybody with a boat who would lend you a
> submersible sump pump? It wouldn't be as quick as Fire Engine pump, but
> it would empty it eventually.

But might kill it working it that hard.

You can hire decent pumps.

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Temporary electricity supply.
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 by: Rod Speed - Mon, 16 May 2022 16:00 UTC

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> Colin Bignell <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote
>> Dave Plowman (News) wrote

>>> Latest part of the saga.
>
>>> Plumber (Pimlico) refuses to repair the pipe due to unsafe working
>>> conditions - flooded cellar. And won't pump it out due to the stuff
>>> stored
>>> there - says it has to be cleared first. Next door got theirs pumped
>>> out
>>> with no problems - despite obviously having things stored there too...
>>
>> Perhaps London Fire Brigade might help for a bit of positive publicity.
>> Otherwise, do you know anybody with a boat who would lend you a
>> submersible sump pump? It wouldn't be as quick as Fire Engine pump, but
>> it would empty it eventually.
>
> But might kill it working it that hard.
>
> You can hire decent pumps.

Or just use the same plumbers that next door did.

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From: theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Temporary electricity supply.
Date: 16 May 2022 17:22:41 +0100 (BST)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
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 by: Theo - Mon, 16 May 2022 16:22 UTC

Colin Bignell <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
> On 16/05/2022 15:19, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> > Latest part of the saga.
> >
> > Plumber (Pimlico) refuses to repair the pipe due to unsafe working
> > conditions - flooded cellar. And won't pump it out due to the stuff stored
> > there - says it has to be cleared first. Next door got theirs pumped out
> > with no problems - despite obviously having things stored there too...
>
> Perhaps London Fire Brigade might help for a bit of positive publicity.
> Otherwise, do you know anybody with a boat who would lend you a
> submersible sump pump? It wouldn't be as quick as Fire Engine pump, but
> it would empty it eventually.

Would have thought you could hire such things.
eg
https://www.hss.com/hire/c/pumping-and-drying/pumping-and-pumps

Although if this is all 'remote' (ie relatives can't be on site to take
charge) and the trades are turning up, sucking teeth and leaving there's a
limit to what can be done by phoning people up.

Theo

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 by: ARW - Mon, 16 May 2022 16:55 UTC

On 14/05/2022 14:55, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
It's possible the mains
> earth is now on the house side of the stop cock

Which is the correct side.

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Subject: Re: Temporary electricity supply.
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 by: ARW - Mon, 16 May 2022 17:19 UTC

On 14/05/2022 14:37, Theo wrote:
> Colin Bignell <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
>> It is the voice of experience of what strange things people get up to.
>>
>> and these days not a too realistic one.
>>
>> I would have thought that there was a duty of due diligence today, which
>> we didn't have to follow, which would have made it even less likely to
>> be acceptable.
>
> I'm not sure what DNO policy on this is. But I think that suppliers who are
> changing meters won't intervene if there is something not up to scratch with
> the installation - they will swap out the meter and leave things as equally
> bad as they were before, but they won't cut people off when they have come
> just to change the meter. That is presumably why this installation is still
> going with pre-WWII wiring - the meter must have been changed several times
> since then, but the installation was not condemned. Maybe the householder
> was told it needed improvement but then ignored it.
>
> That seems to be in contrast to gas installs where the gas distributor may
> cut you off if your installation is dangerous. Presumably because a gas
> explosion affects more people than just those who live in the house. But
> also because it's easier to live without gas than without electricity.
>
> Perhaps Adam has more experience here?
>
> Also bear in mind the person calling the DNO to re-energise is going to be
> an electrician not the householder, and the electrician is able to sign off
> their own work.

It's not often I have come across this sort of thing.

When we did a lot of shit hole rentals (and some were cannabis farms
that had had the power cut) off a simple RCD garage CU with a double
socket next to it and correctly bonded gas and water was all that was
needed to get the supply back on.

Never once was I asked for a certificate before reconnection - and that
would have only been a partial cert as there was no power on.

Occasionally they have asked me to do an earth loop reading - probably
just checking I had a calibrated meter.

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From: adamwads...@blueyonder.co.uk (ARW)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Temporary electricity supply.
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 18:37:07 +0100
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 by: ARW - Mon, 16 May 2022 17:37 UTC

On 15/05/2022 00:11, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 14/05/2022 19:00, Andrew wrote:
>> On 13/05/2022 17:44, Colin Bignell wrote:
> ...
>>> Even decades ago, when I worked for an Electricity Board, we wouldn't
>>> have accepted that. It smacks of somebody wanting to get a
>>> sub-standard system installed, once the power is to the house.
>>>
>>
>> I thought they insisted that the installation complied with BS7671 ?
>>
>
> IEE Regs 14th Edition in my day, but they were not legally enforceable,
> so engineers had to make judgements, based upon experience.
>

Which amendment:-) Metric or imperial?

Have a trip down memory lane.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:14th.jpg

Bought it at a bookshop in Rochester after TMH's funeral.

http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:14th.jpg

I would have spent longer in there but there was a pub nearby.

Cheers

Adam

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Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Temporary electricity supply.
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 18:35:29 +0100
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Mon, 16 May 2022 17:35 UTC

In article <t5tvle$j4j$1@dont-email.me>,
ARW <adamwadsworth@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> On 14/05/2022 14:55, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> It's possible the mains
> > earth is now on the house side of the stop cock

> Which is the correct side.

Indeed with modern practice. But not when that house was wired, and the
water main provided the earth.

--
*The fact that no one understands you doesn't mean you're an artist

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

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 by: ARW - Mon, 16 May 2022 17:39 UTC

On 14/05/2022 19:05, Andrew wrote:
> On 12/05/2022 22:46, Theo wrote:
>> ARW <adamwadsworth@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>> I once did something the same but with trunking.
>>>
>>> The electricity co will take no time to swap the cutout once the cellar
>>> is pumped out.
>>
>> If it were me I'd be tempted to find a location on the ground floor
>> exterior
>> for a meter box, with a CU inside somewhere nearby.  Maybe the insurance
>> would pay?
>>
>> But I think you're right that the incomer is probably OK once dried
>> out and
>> the DNO will fit a new meter board and cutout.  So you don't need a new
>> incomer.  It's not like flooding is a regular occurrence here, where it
>> might be advisable to move it.
>>
>> I forget the regs, is there any issue with having the meter somewhere
>> distant from the cutout, assuming suitably robust cable?  For example
>> if the
>> householder can't get down the stairs into the cellar any more, could
>> it be
>> moved to the ground floor next to a new CU?  A smart meter shouldn't
>> need to
>> be accessible for meter readers in person, but sometimes suppliers
>> still ask
>> for readings (eg when changing supplier).
>>
>> Either way, a new CU inside plus a few sockets with surface wiring
>> would be
>> a lot cheaper than a full rewire.  Might have to do something about
>> lighting, but maybe a few wall lights?
>>
>> Theo
>
> Since she cannot get upstairs, all the upstairs wiring might just as
> well be removed, and this does not infringe any regulations (AFAIK),
> leaving a minimal downstairs upgrade (cooker plus 1 ring)

Neat

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Temporary electricity supply.
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 18:47:37 +0100
Organization: None
Message-ID: <59e998f842dave@davenoise.co.uk>
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Mon, 16 May 2022 17:47 UTC

In article <t5u12p$ve7$1@dont-email.me>,
ARW <adamwadsworth@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> > Also bear in mind the person calling the DNO to re-energise is going to be
> > an electrician not the householder, and the electrician is able to sign off
> > their own work.

> It's not often I have come across this sort of thing.

> When we did a lot of shit hole rentals (and some were cannabis farms
> that had had the power cut) off a simple RCD garage CU with a double
> socket next to it and correctly bonded gas and water was all that was
> needed to get the supply back on.

> Never once was I asked for a certificate before reconnection - and that
> would have only been a partial cert as there was no power on.

> Occasionally they have asked me to do an earth loop reading - probably
> just checking I had a calibrated meter.

That was what I was hoping for. Can you give a rough idea of price, Adam?
But I'd also need to contact the supply people about providing a decent
earth?

Don't think we can have TNC here.

I got the supply company to provide it ages ago here - think it is TNS. A
big clamp to the outside of the incoming cable. ISTR it wasn't cheap to
have done.

All just temporary, though. My meter and CU is now at the top of the
cellar stairs, rather than in the cellar. The supply company used
three-core armoured cable to extend from the riser to the meter - the
riser fuse still being in the cellar.

--
*The longest recorded flightof a chicken is thirteen seconds *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Temporary electricity supply.

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From: adamwads...@blueyonder.co.uk (ARW)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Temporary electricity supply.
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 19:38:51 +0100
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 by: ARW - Mon, 16 May 2022 18:38 UTC

On 16/05/2022 18:47, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <t5u12p$ve7$1@dont-email.me>,
> ARW <adamwadsworth@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Also bear in mind the person calling the DNO to re-energise is going to be
>>> an electrician not the householder, and the electrician is able to sign off
>>> their own work.
>
>
>> It's not often I have come across this sort of thing.
>
>> When we did a lot of shit hole rentals (and some were cannabis farms
>> that had had the power cut) off a simple RCD garage CU with a double
>> socket next to it and correctly bonded gas and water was all that was
>> needed to get the supply back on.
>
>> Never once was I asked for a certificate before reconnection - and that
>> would have only been a partial cert as there was no power on.
>
>> Occasionally they have asked me to do an earth loop reading - probably
>> just checking I had a calibrated meter.
>
> That was what I was hoping for. Can you give a rough idea of price, Adam?
> But I'd also need to contact the supply people about providing a decent
> earth?
>
> Don't think we can have TNC here.
>
> I got the supply company to provide it ages ago here - think it is TNS. A
> big clamp to the outside of the incoming cable. ISTR it wasn't cheap to
> have done.

They know how to charge an earth for an earth clamp fitting, or move a
cut out etc.

> All just temporary, though. My meter and CU is now at the top of the
> cellar stairs, rather than in the cellar. The supply company used
> three-core armoured cable to extend from the riser to the meter - the
> riser fuse still being in the cellar.
>
There are certain places in Leeds that do not have TN installations.

If the supplier is not going to provide you with an earth you have to
supply your installation with your own earth rod and RCD all the
circuits for additional protection.

Odd that your neighbour has not died of electrocution after all these
years. Or fallen down the stairs in a power cut when the lights failed:-)

The old battle axe missed the bombs in the blitz as well.

Today's apprentice wanted taking to A&E because he got a splinter in his
finger. I could have removed that with the angle grinder.

All the best Dave

Re: Temporary electricity supply.

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From: cpb...@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk (Colin Bignell)
In-Reply-To: <t5u242$7ps$1@dont-email.me>
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 by: Colin Bignell - Mon, 16 May 2022 19:08 UTC

On 16/05/2022 18:37, ARW wrote:
> On 15/05/2022 00:11, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> On 14/05/2022 19:00, Andrew wrote:
>>> On 13/05/2022 17:44, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> ...
>>>> Even decades ago, when I worked for an Electricity Board, we
>>>> wouldn't have accepted that. It smacks of somebody wanting to get a
>>>> sub-standard system installed, once the power is to the house.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I thought they insisted that the installation complied with BS7671 ?
>>>
>>
>> IEE Regs 14th Edition in my day, but they were not legally
>> enforceable, so engineers had to make judgements, based upon experience.
>>
>
> Which amendment:-) Metric or imperial?

Imperial of course, and we used real money in those days too, not this
decimal stuff.

>
> Have a trip down memory lane.
>
> http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:14th.jpg
>
> Bought it at a bookshop in Rochester after TMH's funeral.
>
> http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/File:14th.jpg
>
> I would have spent longer in there but there was a pub nearby.
>
> Cheers
>
> Adam
>

--
Colin Bignell

Re: Temporary electricity supply.

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 by: Colin Bignell - Mon, 16 May 2022 22:39 UTC

On 16/05/2022 16:48, Rod Speed wrote:
> Colin Bignell <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote
>> Dave Plowman (News) wrote
>
>>> Latest part of the saga.
>
>>>  Plumber (Pimlico) refuses to repair the pipe due to unsafe working
>>> conditions - flooded cellar. And won't pump it out due to the stuff
>>> stored
>>> there - says it has to be cleared first. Next door got theirs pumped out
>>> with no problems - despite obviously having things stored there too...
>>
>> Perhaps London Fire Brigade might help for a bit of positive
>> publicity. Otherwise, do you know anybody with a boat who would lend
>> you a submersible sump pump? It wouldn't be as quick as Fire Engine
>> pump, but it would empty it eventually.
>
> But might kill it working it that hard.
>
> You can hire decent pumps.

Not the minimum cost approach her children seem to favour though.

--
Colin Bignell

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Temporary electricity supply.
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 09:07:59 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Mon, 16 May 2022 23:07 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 08:39:40 +1000, Colin Bignell
<cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:

> On 16/05/2022 16:48, Rod Speed wrote:
>> Colin Bignell <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote
>>> Dave Plowman (News) wrote
>>
>>>> Latest part of the saga.
>>
>>>> Plumber (Pimlico) refuses to repair the pipe due to unsafe working
>>>> conditions - flooded cellar. And won't pump it out due to the stuff
>>>> stored
>>>> there - says it has to be cleared first. Next door got theirs pumped
>>>> out
>>>> with no problems - despite obviously having things stored there too...
>>>
>>> Perhaps London Fire Brigade might help for a bit of positive
>>> publicity. Otherwise, do you know anybody with a boat who would lend
>>> you a submersible sump pump? It wouldn't be as quick as Fire Engine
>>> pump, but it would empty it eventually.

>> But might kill it working it that hard.

>> You can hire decent pumps.

> Not the minimum cost approach her children seem to favour though.

Dunno, Pimlico would have cost more than a hired pump.

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 by: Colin Bignell - Mon, 16 May 2022 23:18 UTC

On 17/05/2022 00:07, Rod Speed wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 08:39:40 +1000, Colin Bignell
> <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 16/05/2022 16:48, Rod Speed wrote:
>>> Colin Bignell <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote
>>>> Dave Plowman (News) wrote
>>>
>>>>> Latest part of the saga.
>>>
>>>>>  Plumber (Pimlico) refuses to repair the pipe due to unsafe working
>>>>> conditions - flooded cellar. And won't pump it out due to the stuff
>>>>> stored
>>>>> there - says it has to be cleared first. Next door got theirs
>>>>> pumped out
>>>>> with no problems - despite obviously having things stored there too...
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps London Fire Brigade might help for a bit of positive
>>>> publicity. Otherwise, do you know anybody with a boat who would lend
>>>> you a submersible sump pump? It wouldn't be as quick as Fire Engine
>>>> pump, but it would empty it eventually.
>
>>>  But might kill it working it that hard.
>
>>>  You can hire decent pumps.
>
>> Not the minimum cost approach her children seem to favour though.
>
> Dunno, Pimlico would have cost more than a hired pump.

The insurers are paying for the plumbers.

--
Colin Bignell

Re: Temporary electricity supply.

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 by: Colin Bignell - Mon, 16 May 2022 23:21 UTC

On 16/05/2022 15:30, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <U4KdnT0mnd54sB__nZ2dnUU7-SednZ2d@giganews.com>,
> Colin Bignell <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
>> I remember cutting out a section of lead water pipe in London. It looked
>> like the cautionary pictures of furred up arteries.
>
> Most of the plumbing in this house was lead too when I bought it. And as
> you say, cutting it showed a nice coating of 'lime' inside the pipe.
> Making the lead safe. Since my pressure and flow are OK I've left it as
> lead up to the stopcock in the cellar. Had fun wiping copper to lead first
> time I'd tried this - to fit a new stopcock. All copper after it now.
>
> The odd thing about lead is my brother lives in a soft water area - NE of
> Scotland. And his ancient house has a lead feeder too. But has had the
> water checked, and OK. Perhaps that soft water has something else in it
> which causes a coating?
>

AIUI, the water companies in soft water areas add an inhibitor.

--
Colin Bignell

Re: Temporary electricity supply.

<op.1madbczybyq249@pvr2.lan>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=52813&group=uk.d-i-y#52813

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From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Temporary electricity supply.
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 10:07:50 +1000
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 by: Rod Speed - Tue, 17 May 2022 00:07 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 09:18:23 +1000, Colin Bignell
<cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:

> On 17/05/2022 00:07, Rod Speed wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 08:39:40 +1000, Colin Bignell
>> <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 16/05/2022 16:48, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> Colin Bignell <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote
>>>>> Dave Plowman (News) wrote
>>>>
>>>>>> Latest part of the saga.
>>>>
>>>>>> Plumber (Pimlico) refuses to repair the pipe due to unsafe working
>>>>>> conditions - flooded cellar. And won't pump it out due to the stuff
>>>>>> stored
>>>>>> there - says it has to be cleared first. Next door got theirs
>>>>>> pumped out
>>>>>> with no problems - despite obviously having things stored there
>>>>>> too...
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps London Fire Brigade might help for a bit of positive
>>>>> publicity. Otherwise, do you know anybody with a boat who would lend
>>>>> you a submersible sump pump? It wouldn't be as quick as Fire Engine
>>>>> pump, but it would empty it eventually.
>>
>>>> But might kill it working it that hard.
>>
>>>> You can hire decent pumps.
>>
>>> Not the minimum cost approach her children seem to favour though.
>> Dunno, Pimlico would have cost more than a hired pump.
>
> The insurers are paying for the plumbers.

Then they need to pay a plubnrt eho9 eill pump yhr vrllst.

Re: Temporary electricity supply.

<t5up49$15rq$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: nos...@needed.invalid (Paul)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Temporary electricity supply.
Date: Mon, 16 May 2022 20:09:45 -0400
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Paul - Tue, 17 May 2022 00:09 UTC

On 5/16/2022 6:39 PM, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 16/05/2022 16:48, Rod Speed wrote:
>> Colin Bignell <cpb@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote
>>> Dave Plowman (News) wrote
>>
>>>> Latest part of the saga.
>>
>>>>  Plumber (Pimlico) refuses to repair the pipe due to unsafe working
>>>> conditions - flooded cellar. And won't pump it out due to the stuff stored
>>>> there - says it has to be cleared first. Next door got theirs pumped out
>>>> with no problems - despite obviously having things stored there too...
>>>
>>> Perhaps London Fire Brigade might help for a bit of positive publicity. Otherwise, do you know anybody with a boat who would lend you a submersible sump pump? It wouldn't be as quick as Fire Engine pump, but it would empty it eventually.
>>
>> But might kill it working it that hard.
>>
>> You can hire decent pumps.
>
> Not the minimum cost approach her children seem to favour though.
>

The pump is one thing.

But decent hose is the other. I was kinda shocked at how nice
the rental hose was. For a decent hose, you could pay 7x for
the hose needed (150 feet), compared to the cost of the cheesy pump.

When I got the rental pump and hose, the hose was suction
compatible (won't collapse under suction). And that hose
design allows the pump to run at closer to its rating.

The one thing I didn't get with the pump, was any extra fittings.
To pump water out of a yard, I needed a 90 degree angle fitting,
with (some sort of) standard fitting on the end. I went to the
Pump House (commercial) and they gave me one for free (as they
had a stock of junk). With the ninety degree, that prevented
the hose from getting kinked. If pumping a basement, with a
hose that rigid, a 90 degree fitting might still be needed.

For home usage, I have inadequate hose ("lay flat" non-suction
hose), which requires extra pumping time. Turning a two hour job
into a day long job.

Pumps with impellers, have to sit closer to what you want to pump.
Partially submersed (or for a good pump, totally submersed
and by a significant number of feet). For $500, you can get
a cast iron pump, just toss it into the water and ignore
it, it's that robust. But many other home pumps, you need to
be more careful with them, to not ruin them on the first go.

Suction pumps with a piston, if I bought and paid for one of those,
I'd be careful about what kind of water I'd feed it, to protect the piston.
A piston pump could sit at grade, and a suction line run down into the
water.

Pumps have a max inlet operating temp, and a pH range, but this
isn't usually an issue for a basement thing. The little pumps
rely on the flow of water around the pump jacket for cooling.
If the pump burns 500W, and the motor is decently efficient,
there's still a good amount of waste heat. Pumping cool water
is what it wants to do.

The motor on some pumps are oil cooled. Oil held in the motor
winding area, acts as a thermal bridge to the internal jacket,
so the passing water can carry away the heat. The very first
pump I bought, the pump had been stored on its side in the
hardware store, and all the oil had run out. (This risks
destroying the motor on your very first usage, as the motor
will overheat without the internal oil fill.) The Pump House
had a bottle of oil suited for the job, and I refilled the
pump jacket before usage. If the cardboard box a pump comes
in, is soaked in oil, you've got a problem.

For home hoses, you clean them after using them, so they
won't stink on storage. One of the reasons I don't use the
2" line very often, is the cleaning and rolling procedure
is a back-breaker. If you had an assistant, it would be not
nearly as bad.

There are *many* advantages to renting :-) For a once in a lifetime
burst pipe, you don't need to own the stuff. What *owning* the
items does for you, is in times of overland flooding, you
might have something you can use, when the rental is "all out".

Paul

Re: Temporary electricity supply.

<6547e9a8-714a-450e-8521-5ab7c90e4495n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Temporary electricity supply.
From: jrwalli...@gmail.com (John Walliker)
Injection-Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 09:02:21 +0000
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
 by: John Walliker - Tue, 17 May 2022 09:02 UTC

On Tuesday, 17 May 2022 at 01:09:51 UTC+1, Paul wrote:
> On 5/16/2022 6:39 PM, Colin Bignell wrote:
> > On 16/05/2022 16:48, Rod Speed wrote:
> >> Colin Bignell <c...@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote
> >>> Dave Plowman (News) wrote
> >>
> >>>> Latest part of the saga.
> >>
> >>>> Plumber (Pimlico) refuses to repair the pipe due to unsafe working
> >>>> conditions - flooded cellar. And won't pump it out due to the stuff stored
> >>>> there - says it has to be cleared first. Next door got theirs pumped out
> >>>> with no problems - despite obviously having things stored there too...
> >>>
> >>> Perhaps London Fire Brigade might help for a bit of positive publicity. Otherwise, do you know anybody with a boat who would lend you a submersible sump pump? It wouldn't be as quick as Fire Engine pump, but it would empty it eventually.
> >>
> >> But might kill it working it that hard.
> >>
> >> You can hire decent pumps.
> >
> > Not the minimum cost approach her children seem to favour though.
> >
> The pump is one thing.
>
> But decent hose is the other. I was kinda shocked at how nice
> the rental hose was. For a decent hose, you could pay 7x for
> the hose needed (150 feet), compared to the cost of the cheesy pump.
>
> When I got the rental pump and hose, the hose was suction
> compatible (won't collapse under suction). And that hose
> design allows the pump to run at closer to its rating.
>
> The one thing I didn't get with the pump, was any extra fittings.
> To pump water out of a yard, I needed a 90 degree angle fitting,
> with (some sort of) standard fitting on the end. I went to the
> Pump House (commercial) and they gave me one for free (as they
> had a stock of junk). With the ninety degree, that prevented
> the hose from getting kinked. If pumping a basement, with a
> hose that rigid, a 90 degree fitting might still be needed.
>
> For home usage, I have inadequate hose ("lay flat" non-suction
> hose), which requires extra pumping time. Turning a two hour job
> into a day long job.
>
> Pumps with impellers, have to sit closer to what you want to pump.
> Partially submersed (or for a good pump, totally submersed
> and by a significant number of feet). For $500, you can get
> a cast iron pump, just toss it into the water and ignore
> it, it's that robust. But many other home pumps, you need to
> be more careful with them, to not ruin them on the first go.
>
> Suction pumps with a piston, if I bought and paid for one of those,
> I'd be careful about what kind of water I'd feed it, to protect the piston.
> A piston pump could sit at grade, and a suction line run down into the
> water.
>
> Pumps have a max inlet operating temp, and a pH range, but this
> isn't usually an issue for a basement thing. The little pumps
> rely on the flow of water around the pump jacket for cooling.
> If the pump burns 500W, and the motor is decently efficient,
> there's still a good amount of waste heat. Pumping cool water
> is what it wants to do.
>
> The motor on some pumps are oil cooled. Oil held in the motor
> winding area, acts as a thermal bridge to the internal jacket,
> so the passing water can carry away the heat. The very first
> pump I bought, the pump had been stored on its side in the
> hardware store, and all the oil had run out. (This risks
> destroying the motor on your very first usage, as the motor
> will overheat without the internal oil fill.) The Pump House
> had a bottle of oil suited for the job, and I refilled the
> pump jacket before usage. If the cardboard box a pump comes
> in, is soaked in oil, you've got a problem.
>
> For home hoses, you clean them after using them, so they
> won't stink on storage. One of the reasons I don't use the
> 2" line very often, is the cleaning and rolling procedure
> is a back-breaker. If you had an assistant, it would be not
> nearly as bad.
>
> There are *many* advantages to renting :-) For a once in a lifetime
> burst pipe, you don't need to own the stuff. What *owning* the
> items does for you, is in times of overland flooding, you
> might have something you can use, when the rental is "all out".
>
> Paul

Submersible pumps are so cheap that it could just be thrown away
when the job is done. Something like this should be enough and would
cost less to buy than the rental of anything.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/151652-Heavy-Submersible-Clean-Dirty/dp/B01LWY1VO8
There are lots of cheap alternatives, some of which have higher power.
However, speed doesn't really matter if it can be left running all day.
John

Re: Temporary electricity supply.

<op.1ma2ewpvx9d686@pvr2.lan>

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From: lki...@gmail.com (lacksey)
Newsgroups: uk.d-i-y
Subject: Re: Temporary electricity supply.
Date: Tue, 17 May 2022 19:09:58 +1000
Lines: 102
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<59e985f12edave@davenoise.co.uk>
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 by: lacksey - Tue, 17 May 2022 09:09 UTC

On Tue, 17 May 2022 19:02:21 +1000, John Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Tuesday, 17 May 2022 at 01:09:51 UTC+1, Paul wrote:
>> On 5/16/2022 6:39 PM, Colin Bignell wrote:
>> > On 16/05/2022 16:48, Rod Speed wrote:
>> >> Colin Bignell <c...@bignellremovethis.me.uk> wrote
>> >>> Dave Plowman (News) wrote
>> >>
>> >>>> Latest part of the saga.
>> >>
>> >>>> Plumber (Pimlico) refuses to repair the pipe due to unsafe working
>> >>>> conditions - flooded cellar. And won't pump it out due to the
>> stuff stored
>> >>>> there - says it has to be cleared first. Next door got theirs
>> pumped out
>> >>>> with no problems - despite obviously having things stored there
>> too...
>> >>>
>> >>> Perhaps London Fire Brigade might help for a bit of positive
>> publicity. Otherwise, do you know anybody with a boat who would lend
>> you a submersible sump pump? It wouldn't be as quick as Fire Engine
>> pump, but it would empty it eventually.
>> >>
>> >> But might kill it working it that hard.
>> >>
>> >> You can hire decent pumps.
>> >
>> > Not the minimum cost approach her children seem to favour though.
>> >
>> The pump is one thing.
>>
>> But decent hose is the other. I was kinda shocked at how nice
>> the rental hose was. For a decent hose, you could pay 7x for
>> the hose needed (150 feet), compared to the cost of the cheesy pump.
>>
>> When I got the rental pump and hose, the hose was suction
>> compatible (won't collapse under suction). And that hose
>> design allows the pump to run at closer to its rating.
>>
>> The one thing I didn't get with the pump, was any extra fittings.
>> To pump water out of a yard, I needed a 90 degree angle fitting,
>> with (some sort of) standard fitting on the end. I went to the
>> Pump House (commercial) and they gave me one for free (as they
>> had a stock of junk). With the ninety degree, that prevented
>> the hose from getting kinked. If pumping a basement, with a
>> hose that rigid, a 90 degree fitting might still be needed.
>>
>> For home usage, I have inadequate hose ("lay flat" non-suction
>> hose), which requires extra pumping time. Turning a two hour job
>> into a day long job.
>>
>> Pumps with impellers, have to sit closer to what you want to pump.
>> Partially submersed (or for a good pump, totally submersed
>> and by a significant number of feet). For $500, you can get
>> a cast iron pump, just toss it into the water and ignore
>> it, it's that robust. But many other home pumps, you need to
>> be more careful with them, to not ruin them on the first go.
>>
>> Suction pumps with a piston, if I bought and paid for one of those,
>> I'd be careful about what kind of water I'd feed it, to protect the
>> piston.
>> A piston pump could sit at grade, and a suction line run down into the
>> water.
>>
>> Pumps have a max inlet operating temp, and a pH range, but this
>> isn't usually an issue for a basement thing. The little pumps
>> rely on the flow of water around the pump jacket for cooling.
>> If the pump burns 500W, and the motor is decently efficient,
>> there's still a good amount of waste heat. Pumping cool water
>> is what it wants to do.
>>
>> The motor on some pumps are oil cooled. Oil held in the motor
>> winding area, acts as a thermal bridge to the internal jacket,
>> so the passing water can carry away the heat. The very first
>> pump I bought, the pump had been stored on its side in the
>> hardware store, and all the oil had run out. (This risks
>> destroying the motor on your very first usage, as the motor
>> will overheat without the internal oil fill.) The Pump House
>> had a bottle of oil suited for the job, and I refilled the
>> pump jacket before usage. If the cardboard box a pump comes
>> in, is soaked in oil, you've got a problem.
>>
>> For home hoses, you clean them after using them, so they
>> won't stink on storage. One of the reasons I don't use the
>> 2" line very often, is the cleaning and rolling procedure
>> is a back-breaker. If you had an assistant, it would be not
>> nearly as bad.
>>
>> There are *many* advantages to renting :-) For a once in a lifetime
>> burst pipe, you don't need to own the stuff. What *owning* the
>> items does for you, is in times of overland flooding, you
>> might have something you can use, when the rental is "all out".

> Submersible pumps are so cheap that it could just be thrown away
> when the job is done. Something like this should be enough and would
> cost less to buy than the rental of anything.
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/151652-Heavy-Submersible-Clean-Dirty/dp/B01LWY1VO8
> There are lots of cheap alternatives, some of which have higher power.
> However, speed doesn't really matter if it can be left running all day.

But they all die if left running with no more water to pump.

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