Hello,

I currently do my online banking via a web browser on Windows 10.

I have no desire to have an online banking app on my mobile phone.

With the upcoming Windows 11 "upgrade" I have been thinking of moving
to Linux. I'm not really bothered about continuing with Windows as it turns
out all my software is open source and available on Linux.

I have an iPad which doesn't leave the house.

Which platform is likely to be the most secure for online banking, Windows
10, Linux (probaly Ubuntu), or an iPad (with the latest OS and security
updates, etc.)?

Thank you in advance for any advice.

David Paste wrote:

> With the upcoming Windows 11 "upgrade"

Win10 has 3½ years life left yet ...

On Tue, 17 May 2022 00:50:32 +1000, David Paste <pastedavid@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I currently do my online banking via a web browser on Windows 10.
>
> I have no desire to have an online banking app on my mobile phone.

MUCH safer on a modern smartphone with fingerprint or facial recognition.

> With the upcoming Windows 11 "upgrade" I have been thinking of moving
> to Linux. I'm not really bothered about continuing with Windows as it
> turns out all my software is open source and available on Linux.

> I have an iPad which doesn't leave the house.

> Which platform is likely to be the most secure for online banking,
> Windows
> 10, Linux (probaly Ubuntu), or an iPad (with the latest OS and security
> updates, etc.)?

The ipad if it can do fingerprint or facial recognition.

Or the cheapest iphone that is still new old stock if
the ipad can't do fingerprint or facial recognition.

Much more convenient with stuff that sends an SMS
with a login confirmation number too. That ends up
in the cut and paste area auto so you don't have to
type it in when it arrives.

> Thank you in advance for any advice.

lacksey wrote:

> Or the cheapest iphone that is still new old stock if
> the ipad can't do fingerprint or facial recognition.
>
> Much more convenient with stuff that sends an SMS
> with a login confirmation number too. That ends up
> in the cut and paste area auto so you don't have to
> type it in when it arrives.

None of my android banking apps rely on SMS messages for confirmation, the question

"is it you trying to spend £xx at GIMPMASKSONLINE?"

comes straight into the banking app for confirmation.

From the way that iPhones apparently couldn't run a covid app constantly in the
background (before the combined apple/google framework) maybe banking apps on
iPhones can't do that?

lacksey <lki567@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 00:50:32 +1000, David Paste <pastedavid@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I currently do my online banking via a web browser on Windows 10.
> >
> > I have no desire to have an online banking app on my mobile phone.
>
> MUCH safer on a modern smartphone with fingerprint or facial recognition.
>
But isn't there always an alternative way to log in, i.e. a PIN or some
such? If not then what happens if you damage your finger one day?

>
> Much more convenient with stuff that sends an SMS
> with a login confirmation number too. That ends up
> in the cut and paste area auto so you don't have to
> type it in when it arrives.
>
I manage that with a VOIP number that starts 07 and forwards all SMS
messages to my E-Mail, then it's just a copy and paste on my computer.

--
Chris Green
·

On 16 May 2022 at 16:46:18 BST, lacksey <lki567@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 17 May 2022 00:50:32 +1000, David Paste <pastedavid@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I currently do my online banking via a web browser on Windows 10.
>>
>> I have no desire to have an online banking app on my mobile phone.
>
> MUCH safer on a modern smartphone with fingerprint or facial recognition.

Much less secure, I'd have said, eh Rodney? Besides which the fingerprint shit
doesn't work very well. And the pissy little screen on a smartphone isn't
really useable for anything serious.

--
All of science is either physics or stamp-collecting.

Ernest Rutherford

On 16/05/2022 17:05, Tim Streater wrote:
> On 16 May 2022 at 16:46:18 BST, lacksey <lki567@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 00:50:32 +1000, David Paste <pastedavid@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I currently do my online banking via a web browser on Windows 10.
>>>
>>> I have no desire to have an online banking app on my mobile phone.
>>
>> MUCH safer on a modern smartphone with fingerprint or facial recognition.
>
> Much less secure, I'd have said, eh Rodney? Besides which the fingerprint shit
> doesn't work very well. And the pissy little screen on a smartphone isn't
> really useable for anything serious.

Not clear why I would need to do online banking while out and about.
Maybe needed by the homeless. Phones can be lost/broken/stolen/lose
charge/credit. And I would need to secure it.

--
Max Demian

David Paste <pastedavid@gmail.com> wrote:
> Which platform is likely to be the most secure for online banking, Windows
> 10, Linux (probaly Ubuntu), or an iPad (with the latest OS and security
> updates, etc.)?

Ubuntu or iPad, assuming you keep the automatic security updates on and
don't run them past their EOL dates.

Windows isn't bad these days, but there's more malware about for it.

Fingerprint/face ID on iOS is useful as it means you can set a longer
password as you have to enter it less often. Although there's slightly more
risk if you carry your device around (some mugger could make you login at
knifepoint).

i(Pad)OS is fairly locked down, on Ubuntu there's less of a risk of Windows
malware. Use a mainline browser (Chrome, Firefox, Safari, etc) not one
maintained by one guy in Nebraska (eg all the forks of old versions of
Firefox). Be conservative about what software you install (a lot of mobile
apps could be done equally well with a website).

Perhaps install a second browser for your banking from the one you use for
day to day surfing. Run an adblocker on your primary browser.

Theo

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote

> lacksey wrote:
>
>> Or the cheapest iphone that is still new old stock if
>> the ipad can't do fingerprint or facial recognition.

>> Much more convenient with stuff that sends an SMS
>> with a login confirmation number too. That ends up
>> in the cut and paste area auto so you don't have to
>> type it in when it arrives.

> None of my android banking apps rely on SMS messages for confirmation,
> the question

That bit wasn't about banking apps.

> "is it you trying to spend £xx at GIMPMASKSONLINE?"
>
> comes straight into the banking app for confirmation.

> From the way that iPhones apparently couldn't run a covid app
> constantly in the background (before the combined apple/google
> framework) maybe banking apps on iPhones can't do that?

Yes it can and does it fine.

lacksey wrote:

> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote
>
>> From the way that iPhones apparently couldn't run a covid app constantly in
>> the background (before the combined apple/google framework) maybe banking apps
>> on iPhones can't do that?
>
> Yes it can and does it fine.

So what was the issue about iphones shutting down the NHS-X covid app after 15
minutes idle then?

On Tue, 17 May 2022 02:02:45 +1000, Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:

> lacksey <lki567@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 00:50:32 +1000, David Paste <pastedavid@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I currently do my online banking via a web browser on Windows 10.
>> >
>> > I have no desire to have an online banking app on my mobile phone.
>>
>> MUCH safer on a modern smartphone with fingerprint or facial
>> recognition.

> But isn't there always an alternative way to log in, i.e. a PIN or some
> such?

Yes, but that can be some monster PIN that is a pain
in the arse to enter which is only used if you get your
finger chopped off or something like that.

> If not then what happens if you damage your finger one day?

You can register more than one finger.

Sure, if both hands hand are chopped off, you might
have a problem, but you would have a problem with
using a touch screen too. Ditto with facial recognition
if you have your head chopped off.

>> Much more convenient with stuff that sends an SMS
>> with a login confirmation number too. That ends up
>> in the cut and paste area auto so you don't have to
>> type it in when it arrives.

> I manage that with a VOIP number that starts 07 and forwards all SMS
> messages to my E-Mail, then it's just a copy and paste on my computer.

Much more convenient to have the SMS number automatically pasted
into the field on the screen, you do nothing but watch it happen.

On Tue, 17 May 2022 02:05:19 +1000, Tim Streater
<timstreater@greenbee.net> wrote:

> On 16 May 2022 at 16:46:18 BST, lacksey <lki567@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 00:50:32 +1000, David Paste <pastedavid@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I currently do my online banking via a web browser on Windows 10.
>>>
>>> I have no desire to have an online banking app on my mobile phone.
>>
>> MUCH safer on a modern smartphone with fingerprint or facial
>> recognition.

> Much less secure, I'd have said,

More fool you given that no one can use the phone
if it gets lost or stolen or just mislaid for a while.
And very easy to work out where it has gone too.

> Besides which the fingerprint shit doesn't work very well.

Works brilliantly on iphones. Vastly more convenient than passwords.

> And the pissy little screen on a smartphone isn't
> really useable for anything serious.

More mindless bullshit with net banking where all you
have to do is select the recipient and enter the dollar
value and can even do that with voice input if you want.

And you can do it anywhere if you find you need to move
funds between your accounts or cards etc when out and
can't pay for something due to insufficient funds in a
particular card or account.

And even get real radical and just wave the phone at the
terminal when paying for anything, even a brand new car,
and vastly more secure than with a contactless card or
card inserted into the terminal or using cash.

On 16 May 2022 at 16:46:18 BST, "lacksey" <lki567@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 17 May 2022 00:50:32 +1000, David Paste <pastedavid@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I currently do my online banking via a web browser on Windows 10.
>>
>> I have no desire to have an online banking app on my mobile phone.
>
> MUCH safer on a modern smartphone with fingerprint or facial recognition.
>
>> With the upcoming Windows 11 "upgrade" I have been thinking of moving
>> to Linux. I'm not really bothered about continuing with Windows as it
>> turns out all my software is open source and available on Linux.
>
>> I have an iPad which doesn't leave the house.
>
>> Which platform is likely to be the most secure for online banking,
>> Windows
>> 10, Linux (probaly Ubuntu), or an iPad (with the latest OS and security
>> updates, etc.)?
>
> The ipad if it can do fingerprint or facial recognition.
>

FWIW, I have a phone with facial recognition, which is needed to unlock the
phone. I open the banking app with a 6 character pass key as a sort of 'double
lock'.

I do pretty much all banking, and most payments, on the phone. Nationwide - I
find the app and web interface pretty good.

--
Cheers, Rob

On Tue, 17 May 2022 02:11:57 +1000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

> On 16/05/2022 17:05, Tim Streater wrote:
>> On 16 May 2022 at 16:46:18 BST, lacksey <lki567@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 00:50:32 +1000, David Paste <pastedavid@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I currently do my online banking via a web browser on Windows 10.
>>>>
>>>> I have no desire to have an online banking app on my mobile phone.
>>>
>>> MUCH safer on a modern smartphone with fingerprint or facial
>>> recognition.
>> Much less secure, I'd have said, eh Rodney? Besides which the
>> fingerprint shit
>> doesn't work very well. And the pissy little screen on a smartphone
>> isn't
>> really useable for anything serious.
>
> Not clear why I would need to do online banking while out and about.

When you discover that a particular card or account hasn't got enough
funds in it and need to move some money around. Or get real radical
and pay for anything including a brand new car by just waving the
phone at the terminal. Or show up at a garage/care boot sale and
find that the seller hasn't got change for your transaction and can
pay any mobile number using your net banking.

> Maybe needed by the homeless.

Or anyone who prefers the convenience.

> Phones can be lost/broken/stolen/lose charge/credit.

But no one can use it in that situation.

> And I would need to secure it.

Just as true with any mobile phone.

Only dinosaurs don't have one for that reason.

On Tue, 17 May 2022 02:16:33 +1000, Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> David Paste <pastedavid@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Which platform is likely to be the most secure for online banking,
>> Windows
>> 10, Linux (probaly Ubuntu), or an iPad (with the latest OS and security
>> updates, etc.)?
>
> Ubuntu or iPad, assuming you keep the automatic security updates on and
> don't run them past their EOL dates.
>
> Windows isn't bad these days, but there's more malware about for it.
>
> Fingerprint/face ID on iOS is useful as it means you can set a longer
> password as you have to enter it less often. Although there's slightly
> more
> risk if you carry your device around (some mugger could make you login at
> knifepoint).

The mugger can make you use an ATM. And it isn't hard to tell
the mugger that you don't have net banking on your phone and
hide it so he can't make you prove it.

> i(Pad)OS is fairly locked down, on Ubuntu there's less of a risk of
> Windows
> malware. Use a mainline browser (Chrome, Firefox, Safari, etc) not one
> maintained by one guy in Nebraska (eg all the forks of old versions of
> Firefox). Be conservative about what software you install (a lot of
> mobile
> apps could be done equally well with a website).
>
> Perhaps install a second browser for your banking from the one you use
> for
> day to day surfing. Run an adblocker on your primary browser.
>
> Theo

If I wanted to add a couple of Wi-Fi controlled relays to my S Plan system,
would I be correct in thinking that I’d just need to wire the relays
across terminals 1 and 4 for CH and 1 and 6 for HW control?

https://flameport.com/electric/central_heating/S_plan_wiring_diagram.gif

Not fussed about having remote control of the thermostat, just the timing.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On Tue, 17 May 2022 02:39:36 +1000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

> lacksey wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote
>>
>>> From the way that iPhones apparently couldn't run a covid app
>>> constantly in the background (before the combined apple/google
>>> framework) maybe banking apps on iPhones can't do that?

>> Yes it can and does it fine.

> So what was the issue about iphones shutting down the NHS-X covid app
> after 15 minutes idle then?

iphones didnt leave bluetooth running full time forever when
no app was using bluetooth, so another phone could see
another phone close enough so that it might be possible to
get infected if the person with the other phone was infacted.

That was fixed very quickly with an iOS release.

On Tue, 17 May 2022 02:55:17 +1000, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:

> On 16 May 2022 at 16:46:18 BST, "lacksey" <lki567@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 00:50:32 +1000, David Paste <pastedavid@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I currently do my online banking via a web browser on Windows 10.
>>>
>>> I have no desire to have an online banking app on my mobile phone.
>>
>> MUCH safer on a modern smartphone with fingerprint or facial
>> recognition.
>>
>>> With the upcoming Windows 11 "upgrade" I have been thinking of moving
>>> to Linux. I'm not really bothered about continuing with Windows as it
>>> turns out all my software is open source and available on Linux.
>>
>>> I have an iPad which doesn't leave the house.
>>
>>> Which platform is likely to be the most secure for online banking,
>>> Windows
>>> 10, Linux (probaly Ubuntu), or an iPad (with the latest OS and security
>>> updates, etc.)?
>>
>> The ipad if it can do fingerprint or facial recognition.
>>
>
> FWIW, I have a phone with facial recognition, which is needed to unlock
> the
> phone. I open the banking app with a 6 character pass key as a sort of
> 'double
> lock'.

No point in doing that because all the decent banking apps do
a fresh ID check when you use the app and that times out too.

> I do pretty much all banking, and most payments, on the phone.

I do too. A couple of my banks do have a function or two which
can only be done in a browser, not their phone app, but that is
a pretty uncommonly used function. So uncommonly used that
I can't even remember what it is now off the top of my head.

I do all payments using applepay except garage/car boot sale
transactions. I can pay to any mobile phone number but with
a queue paying for stuff at a garage/car boot sale, it isn't
worth convincing the seller that its as good as cash unless
they don't have the change. Even if they don't have the change,
there are always mates of mine there and we find the change
that way and pay each other back using our phones.

> Nationwide - I find the app and web interface pretty good.

I have dozens of banks I use and all have very decent apps
and web interaces. Just one still won't do instant transfers.

In article <c97fcd54-361f-4196-9e9c-ed24c1b22b86n@googlegroups.com>,
David Paste <pastedavid@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,

> I currently do my online banking via a web browser on Windows 10.

> I have no desire to have an online banking app on my mobile phone.

> With the upcoming Windows 11 "upgrade" I have been thinking of moving
> to Linux. I'm not really bothered about continuing with Windows as it turns
> out all my software is open source and available on Linux.

> I have an iPad which doesn't leave the house.

> Which platform is likely to be the most secure for online banking, Windows
> 10, Linux (probaly Ubuntu), or an iPad (with the latest OS and security
> updates, etc.)?

> Thank you in advance for any advice.

Once you have access to the device, I'd say it's the bank's software which
is more important.

--
*I'm not a paranoid, deranged millionaire. Dammit, I'm a billionaire.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Tim+ wrote:

> If I wanted to add a couple of Wi-Fi controlled relays to my S Plan system,
> would I be correct in thinking that I’d just need to wire the relays
> across terminals 1 and 4 for CH and 1 and 6 for HW control?
>
> https://flameport.com/electric/central_heating/S_plan_wiring_diagram.gif
>
> Not fussed about having remote control of the thermostat, just the timing.

I'd say 5 and 8, rather than 4 and 6

On 16/05/2022 18:15, Tim+ wrote:
>
> If I wanted to add a couple of Wi-Fi controlled relays to my S Plan system,
> would I be correct in thinking that I’d just need to wire the relays
> across terminals 1 and 4 for CH and 1 and 6 for HW control?
>
> https://flameport.com/electric/central_heating/S_plan_wiring_diagram.gif
>
> Not fussed about having remote control of the thermostat, just the timing.
>

Yes

But the programmer will override your relays unless you remove it but I
expect you knew that.

But I never use number 6. Number six is a free man.

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Tim+ wrote:
>
>> If I wanted to add a couple of Wi-Fi controlled relays to my S Plan system,
>> would I be correct in thinking that I’d just need to wire the relays
>> across terminals 1 and 4 for CH and 1 and 6 for HW control?
>>
>> https://flameport.com/electric/central_heating/S_plan_wiring_diagram.gif
>>
>> Not fussed about having remote control of the thermostat, just the timing.
>
> I'd say 5 and 8, rather than 4 and 6
>
>

Don’t think so. That would bypass both thermostats. I don’t want to adjust
the stats remotely but I do want the existing stats to work.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 16/05/2022 18:41, Andy Burns wrote:
> Tim+ wrote:
>
>> If I wanted to add a couple of Wi-Fi controlled relays to my S Plan
>> system,
>>   would I be correct in thinking that I’d just need to wire the relays
>> across terminals 1 and 4 for CH and 1 and 6 for HW control?
>>
>> https://flameport.com/electric/central_heating/S_plan_wiring_diagram.gif
>>
>> Not fussed about having remote control of the thermostat, just the
>> timing.
>
> I'd say 5 and 8, rather than 4 and 6
>
That would override the stats. I assumed that he still wanted then to
work and just wanted wifi control of the programmer.

ARW <adamwadsworth@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> On 16/05/2022 18:15, Tim+ wrote:
>>
>> If I wanted to add a couple of Wi-Fi controlled relays to my S Plan system,
>> would I be correct in thinking that I’d just need to wire the relays
>> across terminals 1 and 4 for CH and 1 and 6 for HW control?
>>
>> https://flameport.com/electric/central_heating/S_plan_wiring_diagram.gif
>>
>> Not fussed about having remote control of the thermostat, just the timing.
>>
>
> Yes
>
> But the programmer will override your relays unless you remove it but I
> expect you knew that.

Yep I appreciate that.

>
> But I never use number 6. Number six is a free man.

Not following you here… Can you expand?

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 16/05/2022 17:39, Andy Burns wrote:
> lacksey wrote:
>
>> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote
>>
>>> From the way that iPhones apparently couldn't run a covid app
>>> constantly in the background (before the combined apple/google
>>> framework) maybe banking apps on iPhones can't do that?
>>
>> Yes it can and does it fine.
>
> So what was the issue about iphones shutting down the NHS-X covid app
> after 15 minutes idle then?

Rod (aka this shit lacksey) has idea about the NHS app as he's a dunny
dweller from down under.