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aus+uk / uk.rec.cars.maintenance / Re: Left hand wheel nuts??

SubjectAuthor
* Re: Left hand wheel nuts??newshound
`* Re: Left hand wheel nuts??Dave Plowman (News)
 `* Re: Left hand wheel nuts??Dave Plowman (News)
  +* Re: Left hand wheel nuts??newshound
  |+* Re: Left hand wheel nuts??Tim+
  ||`- Re: Left hand wheel nuts??Dave Plowman (News)
  |`* Re: Left hand wheel nuts??Dave Plowman (News)
  | `* Re: Left hand wheel nuts??newshound
  |  +* Re: Left hand wheel nuts??Abandoned_Trolley
  |  |`- Re: Left hand wheel nuts??Dave Plowman (News)
  |  `- Re: Left hand wheel nuts??Dave Plowman (News)
  `* Re: Left hand wheel nuts??Peter Hill
   `* Re: Left hand wheel nuts??Ian Jackson
    +- Re: Left hand wheel nuts??Abandoned_Trolley
    `- Re: Left hand wheel nuts??Fredxx

1
Re: Left hand wheel nuts??

<t0r22r$mb0$1@dont-email.me>

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From: sradclif...@gmail.com (newshound)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Left hand wheel nuts??
Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:56:43 +0000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: newshound - Tue, 15 Mar 2022 21:56 UTC

On 15/03/2022 18:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> Came across wheel studs with L-H threads on the n/s rear of a car
> today. Never encountered that before! What on earth is the point?
> Anyone else come across this outrage?

What vehicle? Sounds weird to me. Why only the rear?

Knock-on hubs are of course handed. But I was interested to discover
they are not always the same way around: this from a UK sports car forum

"Yes the Elan knock ons are the opposite way around to all other knock ons.
It's all abit complicated to explain the physics of it all.
Basically it's dependent on whether the cone on the spinner fits into or
onto the cone on the wheel.
Splined wire wheel hubs have an external cone.
The Elan steel wheels have an internal cone.
These combinations effectively have an influence over the "self
tightening effect" & are dependent on which side of the car they are
fitted to.
There is a story about Chapman explaining the theory of this by placing
and spinning an egg cup inside a napkin ring to show the influece of
counter rotation to his "lesser engineers"

Re: Left hand wheel nuts??

<59ca1e269bdave@davenoise.co.uk>

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Left hand wheel nuts??
Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2022 14:43:49 +0000 (GMT)
Organization: None
Message-ID: <59ca1e269bdave@davenoise.co.uk>
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Wed, 16 Mar 2022 14:43 UTC

In article <t0r22r$mb0$1@dont-email.me>,
newshound <sradcliffe544@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 15/03/2022 18:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> > Came across wheel studs with L-H threads on the n/s rear of a car
> > today. Never encountered that before! What on earth is the point?
> > Anyone else come across this outrage?

> What vehicle? Sounds weird to me. Why only the rear?

> Knock-on hubs are of course handed. But I was interested to discover
> they are not always the same way around: this from a UK sports car forum

> "Yes the Elan knock ons are the opposite way around to all other knock ons.
> It's all abit complicated to explain the physics of it all.
> Basically it's dependent on whether the cone on the spinner fits into or
> onto the cone on the wheel.
> Splined wire wheel hubs have an external cone.
> The Elan steel wheels have an internal cone.
> These combinations effectively have an influence over the "self
> tightening effect" & are dependent on which side of the car they are
> fitted to.
> There is a story about Chapman explaining the theory of this by placing
> and spinning an egg cup inside a napkin ring to show the influece of
> counter rotation to his "lesser engineers"

It is common on a centre lock wheel. But not so much with stud fixing
types.

--
*Middle age is when it takes longer to rest than to get tired.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Left hand wheel nuts??

<59caa0c429dave@davenoise.co.uk>

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Left hand wheel nuts??
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2022 14:30:31 +0000 (GMT)
Organization: None
Message-ID: <59caa0c429dave@davenoise.co.uk>
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Thu, 17 Mar 2022 14:30 UTC

In article <pi343h9c024735took5cfbt7i4k5nsaamb@4ax.com>,
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 14:43:49 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
> <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

> >In article <t0r22r$mb0$1@dont-email.me>,
> > newshound <sradcliffe544@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On 15/03/2022 18:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
> >> > Came across wheel studs with L-H threads on the n/s rear of a car
> >> > today. Never encountered that before! What on earth is the point?
> >> > Anyone else come across this outrage?
> >
> >> What vehicle? Sounds weird to me. Why only the rear?
> >
> >> Knock-on hubs are of course handed. But I was interested to discover
> >> they are not always the same way around: this from a UK sports car forum
> >
> >> "Yes the Elan knock ons are the opposite way around to all other knock ons.
> >> It's all abit complicated to explain the physics of it all.
> >> Basically it's dependent on whether the cone on the spinner fits into or
> >> onto the cone on the wheel.
> >> Splined wire wheel hubs have an external cone.
> >> The Elan steel wheels have an internal cone.
> >> These combinations effectively have an influence over the "self
> >> tightening effect" & are dependent on which side of the car they are
> >> fitted to.
> >> There is a story about Chapman explaining the theory of this by placing
> >> and spinning an egg cup inside a napkin ring to show the influece of
> >> counter rotation to his "lesser engineers"
> >
> >It is common on a centre lock wheel. But not so much with stud fixing
> >types.

> That's what I was getting at. I can't see the point unless it's one
> single securing fixture on the axis of the drive shaft.

It could be Rolls originally had centre fix wheels. So when they moved
over to studs, kept the left hand direction to avoid confusing the
chauffeur. They did similar with their first stalk indicators. On the
wrong side due to the column gearchange on their autos. But swapped over
with later models to what was then the norm.

--
*The statement below is true.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Left hand wheel nuts??

<t107mu$fjj$2@dont-email.me>

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From: sradclif...@gmail.com (newshound)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Left hand wheel nuts??
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2022 21:03:26 +0000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: newshound - Thu, 17 Mar 2022 21:03 UTC

On 17/03/2022 14:30, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <pi343h9c024735took5cfbt7i4k5nsaamb@4ax.com>,
> Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 14:43:49 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
>> <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>> In article <t0r22r$mb0$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> newshound <sradcliffe544@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 15/03/2022 18:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>> Came across wheel studs with L-H threads on the n/s rear of a car
>>>>> today. Never encountered that before! What on earth is the point?
>>>>> Anyone else come across this outrage?
>>>
>>>> What vehicle? Sounds weird to me. Why only the rear?
>>>
>>>> Knock-on hubs are of course handed. But I was interested to discover
>>>> they are not always the same way around: this from a UK sports car forum
>>>
>>>> "Yes the Elan knock ons are the opposite way around to all other knock ons.
>>>> It's all abit complicated to explain the physics of it all.
>>>> Basically it's dependent on whether the cone on the spinner fits into or
>>>> onto the cone on the wheel.
>>>> Splined wire wheel hubs have an external cone.
>>>> The Elan steel wheels have an internal cone.
>>>> These combinations effectively have an influence over the "self
>>>> tightening effect" & are dependent on which side of the car they are
>>>> fitted to.
>>>> There is a story about Chapman explaining the theory of this by placing
>>>> and spinning an egg cup inside a napkin ring to show the influece of
>>>> counter rotation to his "lesser engineers"
>>>
>>> It is common on a centre lock wheel. But not so much with stud fixing
>>> types.
>
>> That's what I was getting at. I can't see the point unless it's one
>> single securing fixture on the axis of the drive shaft.
>
> It could be Rolls originally had centre fix wheels. So when they moved
> over to studs, kept the left hand direction to avoid confusing the
> chauffeur. They did similar with their first stalk indicators. On the
> wrong side due to the column gearchange on their autos. But swapped over
> with later models to what was then the norm.
>
But it was only on the *rear* wheel.

Also, knock-on hubs were AFAIK always asymmetric: you hammered the
square face to knock them off, but the angled one to put them back.

Re: Left hand wheel nuts??

<t10hsb$g23$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: skys...@yahoo.com (Peter Hill)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Left hand wheel nuts??
Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2022 23:57:01 +0000
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
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 by: Peter Hill - Thu, 17 Mar 2022 23:57 UTC

On 17/03/2022 14:30, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
<snip>

> chauffeur. They did similar with their first stalk indicators. On the
> wrong side due to the column gearchange on their autos. But swapped over
> with later models to what was then the norm.
>

And that's a whole different issue.

So which side do you consider the correct side? My Nissan has it on RHS
and looking in owners manual shows this is for RHD and they make a
different set of stalks for LHD with it on LHS. Mazda and Toyota put it
on LHS, at least for Europe including UK.

My view is it should be RHS in RHD and LHS for LDH. that enables the
driver to indicate while changing gear.

Re: Left hand wheel nuts??

<1364968346.669281435.355202.tim.downie-gmail.com@news.individual.net>

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From: tim.dow...@gmail.com (Tim+)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Left hand wheel nuts??
Date: 18 Mar 2022 07:34:26 GMT
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 by: Tim+ - Fri, 18 Mar 2022 07:34 UTC

newshound <sradcliffe544@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 17/03/2022 14:30, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> In article <pi343h9c024735took5cfbt7i4k5nsaamb@4ax.com>,
>> Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 14:43:49 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
>>> <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>> In article <t0r22r$mb0$1@dont-email.me>,
>>>> newshound <sradcliffe544@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 15/03/2022 18:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
>>>>>> Came across wheel studs with L-H threads on the n/s rear of a car
>>>>>> today. Never encountered that before! What on earth is the point?
>>>>>> Anyone else come across this outrage?
>>>>
>>>>> What vehicle? Sounds weird to me. Why only the rear?
>>>>
>>>>> Knock-on hubs are of course handed. But I was interested to discover
>>>>> they are not always the same way around: this from a UK sports car forum
>>>>
>>>>> "Yes the Elan knock ons are the opposite way around to all other knock ons.
>>>>> It's all abit complicated to explain the physics of it all.
>>>>> Basically it's dependent on whether the cone on the spinner fits into or
>>>>> onto the cone on the wheel.
>>>>> Splined wire wheel hubs have an external cone.
>>>>> The Elan steel wheels have an internal cone.
>>>>> These combinations effectively have an influence over the "self
>>>>> tightening effect" & are dependent on which side of the car they are
>>>>> fitted to.
>>>>> There is a story about Chapman explaining the theory of this by placing
>>>>> and spinning an egg cup inside a napkin ring to show the influece of
>>>>> counter rotation to his "lesser engineers"
>>>>
>>>> It is common on a centre lock wheel. But not so much with stud fixing
>>>> types.
>>
>>> That's what I was getting at. I can't see the point unless it's one
>>> single securing fixture on the axis of the drive shaft.
>>
>> It could be Rolls originally had centre fix wheels. So when they moved
>> over to studs, kept the left hand direction to avoid confusing the
>> chauffeur. They did similar with their first stalk indicators. On the
>> wrong side due to the column gearchange on their autos. But swapped over
>> with later models to what was then the norm.
>>
> But it was only on the *rear* wheel.

Um, we don’t know that. Doom never said anything about the N/S front. It
would be crazy just to have it on one rear wheel. Having LH threaded nuts
on the N/S is at least a real thing on some vehicles, usually heavy, older
lorries.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Re: Left hand wheel nuts??

<EoI5wHDfrDNiFwID@brattleho.plus.com>

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From: ianREMOV...@g3ohx.co.uk (Ian Jackson)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Left hand wheel nuts??
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 07:55:11 +0000
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 by: Ian Jackson - Fri, 18 Mar 2022 07:55 UTC

In message <t10hsb$g23$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Peter Hill <skyshac@yahoo.com>
writes
>On 17/03/2022 14:30, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
><snip>
>
>> chauffeur. They did similar with their first stalk indicators. On the
>> wrong side due to the column gearchange on their autos. But swapped over
>> with later models to what was then the norm.
>>
>
>And that's a whole different issue.
>
>So which side do you consider the correct side? My Nissan has it on RHS
>and looking in owners manual shows this is for RHD and they make a
>different set of stalks for LHD with it on LHS. Mazda and Toyota put it
>on LHS, at least for Europe including UK.
>
>My view is it should be RHS in RHD and LHS for LDH. that enables the
>driver to indicate while changing gear.

IIRC, most UK cars had the indicator stalk on the right until the late
70s (enabling drivers to simultaneously change gear with the left hand,
and indicate with the right little finger while still holding the
wheel). After the change (which I presume was in the 'interests of
global standardization'), we soon adapted - but some Japanese were the
last to conform. I recall being pleasantly surprised when I hired a
Toyota Corolla in Ireland, and found it was 'right hand wink'.
--
Ian

Re: Left hand wheel nuts??

<59cb2aff18dave@davenoise.co.uk>

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Left hand wheel nuts??
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 15:40:20 +0000 (GMT)
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References: <51m13hdb4s2vqah06i6gvsdndghpg4sevh@4ax.com>
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Fri, 18 Mar 2022 15:40 UTC

In article <t107mu$fjj$2@dont-email.me>,
newshound <sradcliffe544@gmail.com> wrote:
> > It could be Rolls originally had centre fix wheels. So when they moved
> > over to studs, kept the left hand direction to avoid confusing the
> > chauffeur. They did similar with their first stalk indicators. On the
> > wrong side due to the column gearchange on their autos. But swapped over
> > with later models to what was then the norm.
> >
> But it was only on the *rear* wheel.

I'd guess someone has fitted a non standard rear axle.

> Also, knock-on hubs were AFAIK always asymmetric: you hammered the
> square face to knock them off, but the angled one to put them back.

Never seen the type that are a nut?

--
*WHERE DO FOREST RANGERS GO TO "GET AWAY FROM IT ALL?"

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Left hand wheel nuts??

<59cb2b9cb2dave@davenoise.co.uk>

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Left hand wheel nuts??
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 15:47:05 +0000 (GMT)
Organization: None
Message-ID: <59cb2b9cb2dave@davenoise.co.uk>
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Fri, 18 Mar 2022 15:47 UTC

In article
<1364968346.669281435.355202.tim.downie-gmail.com@news.individual.net>,
Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:
> Um, we don‘t know that. Doom never said anything about the N/S front. It
> would be crazy just to have it on one rear wheel. Having LH threaded nuts
> on the N/S is at least a real thing on some vehicles, usually heavy, older
> lorries.

If it was also used on trucks, perhaps some sense - if at least in theory.

I had an Austin 1800 (Land crab) The driveshafts had splines to the hub,
and secured by a nut. Same thread both sides. The left hand one gave
problems on two occasions.

--
*Husband and cat lost -- reward for cat

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Left hand wheel nuts??

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From: sradclif...@gmail.com (newshound)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Left hand wheel nuts??
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 17:32:48 +0000
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 by: newshound - Fri, 18 Mar 2022 17:32 UTC

On 18/03/2022 15:40, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <t107mu$fjj$2@dont-email.me>,
> newshound <sradcliffe544@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> It could be Rolls originally had centre fix wheels. So when they moved
>>> over to studs, kept the left hand direction to avoid confusing the
>>> chauffeur. They did similar with their first stalk indicators. On the
>>> wrong side due to the column gearchange on their autos. But swapped over
>>> with later models to what was then the norm.
>>>
>> But it was only on the *rear* wheel.
>
> I'd guess someone has fitted a non standard rear axle.
>
>> Also, knock-on hubs were AFAIK always asymmetric: you hammered the
>> square face to knock them off, but the angled one to put them back.
>
> Never seen the type that are a nut?
>
Not on a car, unless you are counting the ones on racing cars. (I have
used flogging spanners on pressure vessel flange nuts).

Re: Left hand wheel nuts??

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From: fre...@fred-smith.co.uk (Abandoned_Trolley)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Left hand wheel nuts??
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 21:25:28 +0000
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 by: Abandoned_Trolley - Fri, 18 Mar 2022 21:25 UTC

>
> IIRC, most UK cars had the indicator stalk on the right until the late
> 70s (enabling drivers to simultaneously change gear with the left hand,
> and indicate with the right little finger while still holding the
> wheel). After the change (which I presume was in the 'interests of
> global standardization'), we soon adapted - but some Japanese were the
> last to conform. I recall being pleasantly surprised when I hired a
> Toyota Corolla in Ireland, and found it was 'right hand wink'.

I think the truth is that a fair number of cars sold in this country are
designed and built as LHD, and the RHD variant for the UK is built as an
afterthought.

If you have a look under the bonnet of a lot of Fords you might notice
that the brake servo is mounted on the bulkhead - on the passenger side.

Its possible that the entire steering column assembly on most cars is
designed and built as LHD (including the ignition key / steering lock
assembly) and that little or no thought is given to ergonomics.

Also ... I suspect that this has been going on for quite a while. My
1966 Mk 2 Jaguar has a blanking plate on the passenger side of the
bulkhead, to take the brake and clutch master cylinders - and it looks
to me like the "natural" place for them. But on my RHD model the master
cylinders are fitted tight up against the battery, in such a way that
you need to either remove them or the bonnet in order to get the battery
out.

--
random signature text inserted here

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From: fre...@fred-smith.co.uk (Abandoned_Trolley)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Left hand wheel nuts??
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 by: Abandoned_Trolley - Fri, 18 Mar 2022 21:31 UTC

>>
> Not on a car, unless you are counting the ones on racing cars. (I have
> used flogging spanners on pressure vessel flange nuts).

I believe that some Series 3 E Type Jaguars were fitted with wire wheels
which were secured by a nut which had no "ears" and that some sort of
(possibly octagonal) flogging spanner thingy was used to tighten them.

This might have been a requirement for the US market - but a lot of
later E Types had steel wheels anyway.

--
random signature text inserted here

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Left hand wheel nuts??
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 18:23:22 +0000 (GMT)
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Fri, 18 Mar 2022 18:23 UTC

In article <t12fnv$bop$1@dont-email.me>,
newshound <sradcliffe544@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 18/03/2022 15:40, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> > In article <t107mu$fjj$2@dont-email.me>,
> > newshound <sradcliffe544@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> It could be Rolls originally had centre fix wheels. So when they moved
> >>> over to studs, kept the left hand direction to avoid confusing the
> >>> chauffeur. They did similar with their first stalk indicators. On the
> >>> wrong side due to the column gearchange on their autos. But swapped over
> >>> with later models to what was then the norm.
> >>>
> >> But it was only on the *rear* wheel.
> >
> > I'd guess someone has fitted a non standard rear axle.
> >
> >> Also, knock-on hubs were AFAIK always asymmetric: you hammered the
> >> square face to knock them off, but the angled one to put them back.
> >
> > Never seen the type that are a nut?
> >
> Not on a car, unless you are counting the ones on racing cars. (I have
> used flogging spanners on pressure vessel flange nuts).

They were around at the same time as the more usual 'wing' types. But both
usually had an arrow to indicate undo direction.

--
*Learn from your parents' mistakes - use birth control

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Left hand wheel nuts??

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Left hand wheel nuts??
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 12:01:02 +0000 (GMT)
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Sat, 19 Mar 2022 12:01 UTC

In article <t12to8$5r4$1@dont-email.me>,
Abandoned_Trolley <fred@fred-smith.co.uk> wrote:

> >>
> > Not on a car, unless you are counting the ones on racing cars. (I have
> > used flogging spanners on pressure vessel flange nuts).

> I believe that some Series 3 E Type Jaguars were fitted with wire wheels
> which were secured by a nut which had no "ears" and that some sort of
> (possibly octagonal) flogging spanner thingy was used to tighten them.

> This might have been a requirement for the US market - but a lot of
> later E Types had steel wheels anyway.

Yes - 'wing' knock offs were illegal in some countries. Not surprising,
really.

--
*The statement above is false

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Left hand wheel nuts??

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From: fre...@spam.uk (Fredxx)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Left hand wheel nuts??
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 23:13:53 +0000
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 by: Fredxx - Sat, 19 Mar 2022 23:13 UTC

On 18/03/2022 07:55, Ian Jackson wrote:
> In message <t10hsb$g23$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Peter Hill <skyshac@yahoo.com>
> writes
>> On 17/03/2022 14:30, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>>> chauffeur. They did similar with their first stalk indicators. On the
>>> wrong side due to the column gearchange on their autos. But swapped over
>>> with later models to what was then the norm.
>>>
>>
>> And that's a whole different issue.
>>
>> So which side do you consider the correct side? My Nissan has it on
>> RHS and looking in owners manual shows this is for RHD and they make a
>> different set of stalks for LHD with it on LHS. Mazda and Toyota put
>> it on LHS, at least for Europe including UK.
>>
>> My view is it should be RHS in RHD and LHS for LDH. that enables the
>> driver to indicate while changing gear.
>
> IIRC, most UK cars had the indicator stalk on the right until the late
> 70s (enabling drivers to simultaneously change gear with the left hand,
> and indicate with the right little finger while still holding the
> wheel). After the change (which I presume was in the 'interests of
> global standardization'), we soon adapted - but some Japanese were the
> last to conform. I recall being pleasantly surprised when I hired a
> Toyota Corolla in Ireland, and found it was 'right hand wink'.

The Japs drive on the correct side of the road.

I too found it useful to move the indicators with a hand on the gearstick.

1
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