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aus+uk / uk.rec.cars.maintenance / Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

SubjectAuthor
* Incredibly stupid brake pipe flareCursitor Doom
`* Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flareBrian
 `* Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flareCursitor Doom
  +- Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flareCursitor Doom
  +* Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flareDave Plowman (News)
  |`* Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flareCursitor Doom
  | +- Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flareBrian
  | `- Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flareDave Plowman (News)
  `* Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flareBrian
   `* Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flareDave Plowman (News)
    +* Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flareCursitor Doom
    |`* Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flareDave Plowman (News)
    | `* Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flareCursitor Doom
    |  `* Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flareDave Plowman (News)
    |   `* Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flareAbandoned_Trolley
    |    `* Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flareDave Plowman (News)
    |     +* Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flareAbandoned_Trolley
    |     |`* Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flareDave Plowman (News)
    |     | `* Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flareAbandoned_Trolley
    |     |  `- Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flareDave Plowman (News)
    |     `* Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flarenewshound
    |      +- Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flareDave Plowman (News)
    |      `- Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flareCursitor Doom
    `* Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flareBrian
     `- Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flareCursitor Doom

1
Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

<q95a3htlhed99a28oae74i0repdr41pvco@4ax.com>

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https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=539&group=uk.rec.cars.maintenance#539

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From: cd...@notformail.com (Cursitor Doom)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2022 23:33:27 +0000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 12
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 by: Cursitor Doom - Fri, 18 Mar 2022 23:33 UTC

Gentlemen,

Does anyone know of a supplier for brake pipes such as these? (see
link). For some reason, some cretin decided it would be a great idea
to form a bulge about an inch from the end of the pipe, thus requiring
much greater seating depth and making correct placement and alignment
even more of a PITA than usual when attempting to fit brake pipes
between brake system components (and do-up the nut without x-threading
it).
Thanks, CD.

https://disk.yandex.com/i/haa_C5L1mPUKqA

Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

<t14ahj$o8h$1@dont-email.me>

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From: noi...@lid.org (Brian)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 10:16:19 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Brian - Sat, 19 Mar 2022 10:16 UTC

Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
> Gentlemen,
>
> Does anyone know of a supplier for brake pipes such as these? (see
> link). For some reason, some cretin decided it would be a great idea
> to form a bulge about an inch from the end of the pipe, thus requiring
> much greater seating depth and making correct placement and alignment
> even more of a PITA than usual when attempting to fit brake pipes
> between brake system components (and do-up the nut without x-threading
> it).
> Thanks, CD.
>
> https://disk.yandex.com/i/haa_C5L1mPUKqA
>

Sorry, I can’t help but I am curious.

I’ve never seem that kind of fitting. Is there a make / brand ? Or every
the make of car?

Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

<m6ob3htpmmtf5ue668uq0d85ndof9q3d2f@4ax.com>

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From: cd...@notformail.com (Cursitor Doom)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 13:58:41 +0000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 29
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 by: Cursitor Doom - Sat, 19 Mar 2022 13:58 UTC

On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 10:16:19 -0000 (UTC), Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote:

>Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
>> Gentlemen,
>>
>> Does anyone know of a supplier for brake pipes such as these? (see
>> link). For some reason, some cretin decided it would be a great idea
>> to form a bulge about an inch from the end of the pipe, thus requiring
>> much greater seating depth and making correct placement and alignment
>> even more of a PITA than usual when attempting to fit brake pipes
>> between brake system components (and do-up the nut without x-threading
>> it).
>> Thanks, CD.
>>
>> https://disk.yandex.com/i/haa_C5L1mPUKqA
>>
>
>Sorry, I can’t help but I am curious.
>
>I’ve never seem that kind of fitting. Is there a make / brand ? Or every
>the make of car?

As Dave P has no doubt worked out already, this is another Roller
(Silver Spirit). I'm just wondering if they've used Citroen pattern
pipes in this instance, as they did buy a lot of Citroen hydraulic
technology for incorporation into the RR fleet. Daft decision if you
ask me. Jaguar were able to do all this, with a superior ride
quality/standard of refinement IMO, without all this complex hyraulic
BS.

Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

<0vob3h5qj8tntt7r8h743n7r1g9m6j0npd@4ax.com>

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From: cd...@notformail.com (Cursitor Doom)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 14:10:10 +0000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 19
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 by: Cursitor Doom - Sat, 19 Mar 2022 14:10 UTC

On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 13:58:41 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:

>As Dave P has no doubt worked out already, this is another Roller
>(Silver Spirit). I'm just wondering if they've used Citroen pattern
>pipes in this instance, as they did buy a lot of Citroen hydraulic
>technology for incorporation into the RR fleet. Daft decision if you
>ask me. Jaguar were able to do all this, with a superior ride
>quality/standard of refinement IMO, without all this complex hyraulic
>BS.

Please excuse me quoting myself. I just had a thought about the above
and tried searching for Citroen brake pipe bits. I think I may be on
to something....

https://www.burton2cvparts.com/brakes/brake-lines/brake-pipe-rubber-3-5-mm-lhm

Who'd have thought a Spirit would have anything safety-related in
common with a 2CV!!?

Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

<59cbac69b8dave@davenoise.co.uk>

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 15:13:58 +0000 (GMT)
Organization: None
Message-ID: <59cbac69b8dave@davenoise.co.uk>
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Sat, 19 Mar 2022 15:13 UTC

In article <m6ob3htpmmtf5ue668uq0d85ndof9q3d2f@4ax.com>,
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 10:16:19 -0000 (UTC), Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote:

> >Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
> >> Gentlemen,
> >>
> >> Does anyone know of a supplier for brake pipes such as these? (see
> >> link). For some reason, some cretin decided it would be a great idea
> >> to form a bulge about an inch from the end of the pipe, thus requiring
> >> much greater seating depth and making correct placement and alignment
> >> even more of a PITA than usual when attempting to fit brake pipes
> >> between brake system components (and do-up the nut without x-threading
> >> it).
> >> Thanks, CD.
> >>
> >> https://disk.yandex.com/i/haa_C5L1mPUKqA
> >>
> >
> >Sorry, I can’t help but I am curious.
> >
> >I’ve never seem that kind of fitting. Is there a make / brand ? Or every
> >the make of car?

> As Dave P has no doubt worked out already, this is another Roller
> (Silver Spirit). I'm just wondering if they've used Citroen pattern
> pipes in this instance, as they did buy a lot of Citroen hydraulic
> technology for incorporation into the RR fleet. Daft decision if you
> ask me. Jaguar were able to do all this, with a superior ride
> quality/standard of refinement IMO, without all this complex hyraulic
> BS.

It does look like a union designed for higher pressure than a 'normal'
brake union.

AutoMec make and sell brake pipe kits for various cars in either copper or
kunifer. I'd contact them, as they likely have the correct flaring tool.

--
*Learn from your parents' mistakes - use birth control

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

<b3tb3h5hv2o43mbt63odcca08dn4gaj0qk@4ax.com>

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From: cd...@notformail.com (Cursitor Doom)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 15:22:51 +0000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 46
Message-ID: <b3tb3h5hv2o43mbt63odcca08dn4gaj0qk@4ax.com>
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 by: Cursitor Doom - Sat, 19 Mar 2022 15:22 UTC

On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 15:13:58 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <m6ob3htpmmtf5ue668uq0d85ndof9q3d2f@4ax.com>,
> Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 10:16:19 -0000 (UTC), Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote:
>
>> >Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
>> >> Gentlemen,
>> >>
>> >> Does anyone know of a supplier for brake pipes such as these? (see
>> >> link). For some reason, some cretin decided it would be a great idea
>> >> to form a bulge about an inch from the end of the pipe, thus requiring
>> >> much greater seating depth and making correct placement and alignment
>> >> even more of a PITA than usual when attempting to fit brake pipes
>> >> between brake system components (and do-up the nut without x-threading
>> >> it).
>> >> Thanks, CD.
>> >>
>> >> https://disk.yandex.com/i/haa_C5L1mPUKqA
>> >>
>> >
>> >Sorry, I can’t help but I am curious.
>> >
>> >I’ve never seem that kind of fitting. Is there a make / brand ? Or every
>> >the make of car?
>
>> As Dave P has no doubt worked out already, this is another Roller
>> (Silver Spirit). I'm just wondering if they've used Citroen pattern
>> pipes in this instance, as they did buy a lot of Citroen hydraulic
>> technology for incorporation into the RR fleet. Daft decision if you
>> ask me. Jaguar were able to do all this, with a superior ride
>> quality/standard of refinement IMO, without all this complex hyraulic
>> BS.
>
>It does look like a union designed for higher pressure than a 'normal'
>brake union.
>
>AutoMec make and sell brake pipe kits for various cars in either copper or
>kunifer. I'd contact them, as they likely have the correct flaring tool.

I'll give 'em a try Dave, thanks.
I'm not sure about a flaring tool, though. I'd have thought the only
way to form a bulge like that is through forcing hydraulic fluid into
the pipe with a concave bulge in a surrounding die. That would require
a setup a bit more involved than a typical flaring tool.

Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

<t152ii$ctd$1@dont-email.me>

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From: noi...@lid.org (Brian)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 17:06:26 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 43
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 by: Brian - Sat, 19 Mar 2022 17:06 UTC

Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 10:16:19 -0000 (UTC), Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote:
>
>> Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
>>> Gentlemen,
>>>
>>> Does anyone know of a supplier for brake pipes such as these? (see
>>> link). For some reason, some cretin decided it would be a great idea
>>> to form a bulge about an inch from the end of the pipe, thus requiring
>>> much greater seating depth and making correct placement and alignment
>>> even more of a PITA than usual when attempting to fit brake pipes
>>> between brake system components (and do-up the nut without x-threading
>>> it).
>>> Thanks, CD.
>>>
>>> https://disk.yandex.com/i/haa_C5L1mPUKqA
>>>
>>
>> Sorry, I can’t help but I am curious.
>>
>> I’ve never seem that kind of fitting. Is there a make / brand ? Or every
>> the make of car?
>
> As Dave P has no doubt worked out already, this is another Roller
> (Silver Spirit). I'm just wondering if they've used Citroen pattern
> pipes in this instance, as they did buy a lot of Citroen hydraulic
> technology for incorporation into the RR fleet. Daft decision if you
> ask me. Jaguar were able to do all this, with a superior ride
> quality/standard of refinement IMO, without all this complex hyraulic
> BS.
>

Thank you.

I’ve never worked on either a RR or a Citroen.

I confess, I had considered buying a classic RR but I had a lay down under
I got over the urge. Nice to have etc but ….

;-)

Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

<t152t4$fp8$1@dont-email.me>

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From: noi...@lid.org (Brian)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare
Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2022 17:12:04 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Brian - Sat, 19 Mar 2022 17:12 UTC

Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 15:13:58 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
> <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In article <m6ob3htpmmtf5ue668uq0d85ndof9q3d2f@4ax.com>,
>> Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 10:16:19 -0000 (UTC), Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote:
>>
>>>> Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Gentlemen,
>>>>>
>>>>> Does anyone know of a supplier for brake pipes such as these? (see
>>>>> link). For some reason, some cretin decided it would be a great idea
>>>>> to form a bulge about an inch from the end of the pipe, thus requiring
>>>>> much greater seating depth and making correct placement and alignment
>>>>> even more of a PITA than usual when attempting to fit brake pipes
>>>>> between brake system components (and do-up the nut without x-threading
>>>>> it).
>>>>> Thanks, CD.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://disk.yandex.com/i/haa_C5L1mPUKqA
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, I can’t help but I am curious.
>>>>
>>>> I’ve never seem that kind of fitting. Is there a make / brand ? Or every
>>>> the make of car?
>>
>>> As Dave P has no doubt worked out already, this is another Roller
>>> (Silver Spirit). I'm just wondering if they've used Citroen pattern
>>> pipes in this instance, as they did buy a lot of Citroen hydraulic
>>> technology for incorporation into the RR fleet. Daft decision if you
>>> ask me. Jaguar were able to do all this, with a superior ride
>>> quality/standard of refinement IMO, without all this complex hyraulic
>>> BS.
>>
>> It does look like a union designed for higher pressure than a 'normal'
>> brake union.
>>
>> AutoMec make and sell brake pipe kits for various cars in either copper or
>> kunifer. I'd contact them, as they likely have the correct flaring tool.
>
> I'll give 'em a try Dave, thanks.
> I'm not sure about a flaring tool, though. I'd have thought the only
> way to form a bulge like that is through forcing hydraulic fluid into
> the pipe with a concave bulge in a surrounding die. That would require
> a setup a bit more involved than a typical flaring tool.
>

You would need to seal both ends of the pipe and prevent the whole length
deforming using that method- otherwise you could get a bulge anywhere.

Some kind of clamp which holds the pipe behind where the bulge will be but
has a bulge form in it. A second part forces the pipe on the free end back,
against the held section. The outer form stops the end flaring but the pipe
can go back into the bulge area.

A second operation may be require to finish the end.

As I recall, when making ordinary brake pipes by hand, one of the flares
needs two steps. I’ve not made one for decades but still have a Sykes and
Pickavant tool in the garage. I should put it on EBay.

Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

<59cc2a6faadave@davenoise.co.uk>

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 14:10:28 +0000 (GMT)
Organization: None
Message-ID: <59cc2a6faadave@davenoise.co.uk>
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Sun, 20 Mar 2022 14:10 UTC

In article <b3tb3h5hv2o43mbt63odcca08dn4gaj0qk@4ax.com>,
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 15:13:58 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
> <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

> >In article <m6ob3htpmmtf5ue668uq0d85ndof9q3d2f@4ax.com>,
> > Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
> >> On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 10:16:19 -0000 (UTC), Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote:
> >
> >> >Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
> >> >> Gentlemen,
> >> >>
> >> >> Does anyone know of a supplier for brake pipes such as these? (see
> >> >> link). For some reason, some cretin decided it would be a great idea
> >> >> to form a bulge about an inch from the end of the pipe, thus requiring
> >> >> much greater seating depth and making correct placement and alignment
> >> >> even more of a PITA than usual when attempting to fit brake pipes
> >> >> between brake system components (and do-up the nut without x-threading
> >> >> it).
> >> >> Thanks, CD.
> >> >>
> >> >> https://disk.yandex.com/i/haa_C5L1mPUKqA
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Sorry, I can’t help but I am curious.
> >> >
> >> >I’ve never seem that kind of fitting. Is there a make / brand ? Or every
> >> >the make of car?
> >
> >> As Dave P has no doubt worked out already, this is another Roller
> >> (Silver Spirit). I'm just wondering if they've used Citroen pattern
> >> pipes in this instance, as they did buy a lot of Citroen hydraulic
> >> technology for incorporation into the RR fleet. Daft decision if you
> >> ask me. Jaguar were able to do all this, with a superior ride
> >> quality/standard of refinement IMO, without all this complex hyraulic
> >> BS.
> >
> >It does look like a union designed for higher pressure than a 'normal'
> >brake union.
> >
> >AutoMec make and sell brake pipe kits for various cars in either copper or
> >kunifer. I'd contact them, as they likely have the correct flaring tool.

> I'll give 'em a try Dave, thanks.
> I'm not sure about a flaring tool, though. I'd have thought the only
> way to form a bulge like that is through forcing hydraulic fluid into
> the pipe with a concave bulge in a surrounding die. That would require
> a setup a bit more involved than a typical flaring tool.

Only a guess, but if a rod went down the inside, and the pipe is clamped
onto that rod, you could push the end to form that flare inside a former.

--
* I like you. You remind me of when I was young and stupid

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

<59cc2abc33dave@davenoise.co.uk>

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 14:13:42 +0000 (GMT)
Organization: None
Message-ID: <59cc2abc33dave@davenoise.co.uk>
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Sun, 20 Mar 2022 14:13 UTC

In article <t152ii$ctd$1@dont-email.me>,
Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote:
> I‘ve never worked on either a RR or a Citroen.

> I confess, I had considered buying a classic RR but I had a lay down under
> I got over the urge. Nice to have etc but Œ.

I ran an S1 Bentley for several years. Apart from things being obviously
heavy on such a large car, it was pretty DIY friendly. I even re-lined the
brake shoes myself. Given the costs of new shoes.

Unlike many other cars, many things did seem to be designed to be fixed,
rather than just replaced.

--
*If tennis elbow is painful, imagine suffering with tennis balls *

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

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From: cd...@notformail.com (Cursitor Doom)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare
Date: Sun, 20 Mar 2022 17:32:06 +0000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Cursitor Doom - Sun, 20 Mar 2022 17:32 UTC

On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 14:13:42 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <t152ii$ctd$1@dont-email.me>,
> Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote:
>> I‘ve never worked on either a RR or a Citroen.
>
>> I confess, I had considered buying a classic RR but I had a lay down under
>> I got over the urge. Nice to have etc but Œ.
>
>I ran an S1 Bentley for several years. Apart from things being obviously
>heavy on such a large car, it was pretty DIY friendly. I even re-lined the
>brake shoes myself. Given the costs of new shoes.

What was the ride like? I'd often thought about getting a S1 Cloud -
before they went to that stupid V8 engine etc in the later variants.
But I like a soft ride and Bentley don't really do that. Well ,so they
say.

>Unlike many other cars, many things did seem to be designed to be fixed,
>rather than just replaced.

That wasn't just Bentleys; it was the norm in pretty much all cars
back then.

Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

<59ccbd6e55dave@davenoise.co.uk>

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 16:55:59 +0000 (GMT)
Organization: None
Message-ID: <59ccbd6e55dave@davenoise.co.uk>
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Mon, 21 Mar 2022 16:55 UTC

In article <31pe3h1piqd4cccdgomjpcl06odv50n796@4ax.com>,
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
> >I ran an S1 Bentley for several years. Apart from things being obviously
> >heavy on such a large car, it was pretty DIY friendly. I even re-lined the
> >brake shoes myself. Given the costs of new shoes.

> What was the ride like? I'd often thought about getting a S1 Cloud -
> before they went to that stupid V8 engine etc in the later variants.
> But I like a soft ride and Bentley don't really do that. Well ,so they
> say.

Ride was pretty good even for a live rear axle car. But in main because of
the large crossply tyres. Which had a short life. Radials ruin the ride -
same as on early Shadows. The 6 cylinder was silky smooth, but a tendency
to eat exhaust valves if driven hard. The V8 isn't as smooth at idle, but
pretty bomb proof.

--
*A backward poet writes inverse.*

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

<t1am7v$vjc$1@dont-email.me>

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From: noi...@lid.org (Brian)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2022 20:12:47 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Brian - Mon, 21 Mar 2022 20:12 UTC

Dave Plowman (News) <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <t152ii$ctd$1@dont-email.me>,
> Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote:
>> I‘ve never worked on either a RR or a Citroen.
>
>> I confess, I had considered buying a classic RR but I had a lay down under
>> I got over the urge. Nice to have etc but Œ.
>
> I ran an S1 Bentley for several years. Apart from things being obviously
> heavy on such a large car, it was pretty DIY friendly. I even re-lined the
> brake shoes myself. Given the costs of new shoes.
>
> Unlike many other cars, many things did seem to be designed to be fixed,
> rather than just replaced.
>

I know several people who own older Bentleys, Rolls Royces, etc and, like
you find them fun, even easy to maintain. Since my stroke, I only do basic
things. I certainly avoid anything involving heavy work under cars.

Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

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From: cd...@notformail.com (Cursitor Doom)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 18:14:07 +0000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Cursitor Doom - Tue, 22 Mar 2022 18:14 UTC

On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 20:12:47 -0000 (UTC), Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote:

>Dave Plowman (News) <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>> In article <t152ii$ctd$1@dont-email.me>,
>> Brian <noinv@lid.org> wrote:
>>> I?ve never worked on either a RR or a Citroen.
>>
>>> I confess, I had considered buying a classic RR but I had a lay down under
>>> I got over the urge. Nice to have etc but ?.
>>
>> I ran an S1 Bentley for several years. Apart from things being obviously
>> heavy on such a large car, it was pretty DIY friendly. I even re-lined the
>> brake shoes myself. Given the costs of new shoes.
>>
>> Unlike many other cars, many things did seem to be designed to be fixed,
>> rather than just replaced.
>>
>
>I know several people who own older Bentleys, Rolls Royces, etc and, like
>you find them fun, even easy to maintain. Since my stroke, I only do basic
>things. I certainly avoid anything involving heavy work under cars.

Where I live there's no option but to roll up one's sleeves and get on
with it. There simply isn't the expertise in my neck of the woods. The
hydraulic system on the later RRs and Bentleys is complex and very
expensive to fix if it goes wrong. So preventative maintenance pays
off!

Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

<dg4k3h1o9o43ug9mvgk3efo2j17irhn5vf@4ax.com>

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From: cd...@notformail.com (Cursitor Doom)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2022 18:18:02 +0000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Cursitor Doom - Tue, 22 Mar 2022 18:18 UTC

On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 16:55:59 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <31pe3h1piqd4cccdgomjpcl06odv50n796@4ax.com>,
> Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
>> >I ran an S1 Bentley for several years. Apart from things being obviously
>> >heavy on such a large car, it was pretty DIY friendly. I even re-lined the
>> >brake shoes myself. Given the costs of new shoes.
>
>> What was the ride like? I'd often thought about getting a S1 Cloud -
>> before they went to that stupid V8 engine etc in the later variants.
>> But I like a soft ride and Bentley don't really do that. Well ,so they
>> say.
>
>Ride was pretty good even for a live rear axle car. But in main because of
>the large crossply tyres. Which had a short life. Radials ruin the ride -
>same as on early Shadows. The 6 cylinder was silky smooth, but a tendency
>to eat exhaust valves if driven hard. The V8 isn't as smooth at idle, but
>pretty bomb proof.

I would still take a straight six any day of the week. If that Bentley
lump blew up, the obvious thing to do would be to install a Jag 4.2
XKE engine in its place and just weld the Bentley rocker covers over
the Jag ones.Sorted. ;-)

Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

<59cdb77598dave@davenoise.co.uk>

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 14:26:58 +0000 (GMT)
Organization: None
Message-ID: <59cdb77598dave@davenoise.co.uk>
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Wed, 23 Mar 2022 14:26 UTC

In article <dg4k3h1o9o43ug9mvgk3efo2j17irhn5vf@4ax.com>,
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 16:55:59 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
> <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

> >In article <31pe3h1piqd4cccdgomjpcl06odv50n796@4ax.com>,
> > Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
> >> >I ran an S1 Bentley for several years. Apart from things being obviously
> >> >heavy on such a large car, it was pretty DIY friendly. I even re-lined the
> >> >brake shoes myself. Given the costs of new shoes.
> >
> >> What was the ride like? I'd often thought about getting a S1 Cloud -
> >> before they went to that stupid V8 engine etc in the later variants.
> >> But I like a soft ride and Bentley don't really do that. Well ,so they
> >> say.
> >
> >Ride was pretty good even for a live rear axle car. But in main because of
> >the large crossply tyres. Which had a short life. Radials ruin the ride -
> >same as on early Shadows. The 6 cylinder was silky smooth, but a tendency
> >to eat exhaust valves if driven hard. The V8 isn't as smooth at idle, but
> >pretty bomb proof.

> I would still take a straight six any day of the week. If that Bentley
> lump blew up, the obvious thing to do would be to install a Jag 4.2
> XKE engine in its place and just weld the Bentley rocker covers over
> the Jag ones.Sorted. ;-)

You've obviously not driven an S1 Bentley. The overhead inlet, side
exhaust 4.9 litre low comression engine produced enormous torque just
above idle. Totally different concept from the XK engine.

--
*A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kickboxing.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

<t1fd9f$v12$1@dont-email.me>

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From: fre...@fred-smith.co.uk (Abandoned_Trolley)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 15:10:39 +0000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In-Reply-To: <59cdb77598dave@davenoise.co.uk>
 by: Abandoned_Trolley - Wed, 23 Mar 2022 15:10 UTC

>
> You've obviously not driven an S1 Bentley. The overhead inlet, side
> exhaust 4.9 litre low comression engine produced enormous torque just
> above idle. Totally different concept from the XK engine.
>

Maybe a totally different concept - and from a different era, but ...

Most engines were low compression out of necessity, because of the low
grade "pool" petrol available.

Also, I was told some years ago that at one time, vehicle tax
calculations were dependent on "piston surface area" - which (in the
days of flat top pistons) I suppose means the bore.

If thats true, then engine designers may have been guided down the road
of "overstroking" as a means of buying some displacement, and the side
effects of increased gas velocity and torque would have been welcome.

For comparison purposes, the original 3.4 XK clocks in at 1.27:1 stroke
/ bore and the Bentley is 1.2:1

Theres doubtless a load of other variables in the equation too - for
example there may have been little incentive to produce high revving
oversquare engines without suitable valve springs to keep them going.

--
random signature text inserted here

Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

<59cdc0f5f0dave@davenoise.co.uk>

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 16:10:45 +0000 (GMT)
Organization: None
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Wed, 23 Mar 2022 16:10 UTC

In article <t1fd9f$v12$1@dont-email.me>,
Abandoned_Trolley <fred@fred-smith.co.uk> wrote:

> >
> > You've obviously not driven an S1 Bentley. The overhead inlet, side
> > exhaust 4.9 litre low comression engine produced enormous torque just
> > above idle. Totally different concept from the XK engine.
> >

> Maybe a totally different concept - and from a different era, but ...

> Most engines were low compression out of necessity, because of the low
> grade "pool" petrol available.

The S1 engine was basically a development of a pre-war design. But the
days of 'pool' petrol were long over when it came out. 5 Star was
available during its production run.

> Also, I was told some years ago that at one time, vehicle tax
> calculations were dependent on "piston surface area" - which (in the
> days of flat top pistons) I suppose means the bore.

The old RAC HP rating. Although I doubt Bentley owners were too concerned
about taxation. And the Ford 105E was introduced during the S1 production
run.

> If thats true, then engine designers may have been guided down the road
> of "overstroking" as a means of buying some displacement, and the side
> effects of increased gas velocity and torque would have been welcome.

> For comparison purposes, the original 3.4 XK clocks in at 1.27:1 stroke
> / bore and the Bentley is 1.2:1

> Theres doubtless a load of other variables in the equation too - for
> example there may have been little incentive to produce high revving
> oversquare engines without suitable valve springs to keep them going.

The S1 engine would idle reliably at 175 rpm. Peak revs only about 4000.
Very restful way of proceeding. ;-) It wasn't actually that thirsty
either. My early XJ6 LWB 4.2 auto got the prize as the thirstiest car I've
ever owned.

--
*Why doesn't glue stick to the inside of the bottle?

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

<t1g1qj$gud$1@dont-email.me>

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From: fre...@fred-smith.co.uk (Abandoned_Trolley)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 21:01:06 +0000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Abandoned_Trolley - Wed, 23 Mar 2022 21:01 UTC

On 23/03/2022 16:10, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> And the Ford 105E was introduced during the S1 production
> run.

I dont understand the relevance of that at all.

--
random signature text inserted here

Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

<t1g26a$i1p$1@dont-email.me>

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From: sradclif...@gmail.com (newshound)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 21:07:22 +0000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In-Reply-To: <59cdc0f5f0dave@davenoise.co.uk>
 by: newshound - Wed, 23 Mar 2022 21:07 UTC

On 23/03/2022 16:10, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <t1fd9f$v12$1@dont-email.me>,

>
> The S1 engine would idle reliably at 175 rpm. Peak revs only about 4000.
> Very restful way of proceeding. ;-) It wasn't actually that thirsty
> either. My early XJ6 LWB 4.2 auto got the prize as the thirstiest car I've
> ever owned.
>

Your posts prompted me to look up S1s. Honest John is listing several
for sale, between £19k and £490k.

Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

<59ce3e8e0cdave@davenoise.co.uk>

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 15:02:34 +0000 (GMT)
Organization: None
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Thu, 24 Mar 2022 15:02 UTC

In article <t1g1qj$gud$1@dont-email.me>,
Abandoned_Trolley <fred@fred-smith.co.uk> wrote:
> On 23/03/2022 16:10, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> > And the Ford 105E was introduced during the S1 production
> > run.

> I dont understand the relevance of that at all.

A very over square engine. Which were the fashion for a while. But
emission control caused a revert to longer stroke designs.

--
*Why is the third hand on the watch called a second hand?

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

<59ce3eec92dave@davenoise.co.uk>

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 15:06:36 +0000 (GMT)
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Thu, 24 Mar 2022 15:06 UTC

In article <t1g26a$i1p$1@dont-email.me>,
newshound <sradcliffe544@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 23/03/2022 16:10, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> > In article <t1fd9f$v12$1@dont-email.me>,

> >
> > The S1 engine would idle reliably at 175 rpm. Peak revs only about 4000.
> > Very restful way of proceeding. ;-) It wasn't actually that thirsty
> > either. My early XJ6 LWB 4.2 auto got the prize as the thirstiest car I've
> > ever owned.
> >

> Your posts prompted me to look up S1s. Honest John is listing several
> for sale, between £19k and £490k.

Quite a spread. A standard body one in pretty good nick would be 30k plus,
I'd say. Mint could be anything.

--
*Never test the depth of the water with both feet.*

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

<t1i5h3$bc1$1@dont-email.me>

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From: fre...@fred-smith.co.uk (Abandoned_Trolley)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 16:16:34 +0000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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In-Reply-To: <59ce3e8e0cdave@davenoise.co.uk>
 by: Abandoned_Trolley - Thu, 24 Mar 2022 16:16 UTC

On 24/03/2022 15:02, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <t1g1qj$gud$1@dont-email.me>,
> Abandoned_Trolley <fred@fred-smith.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 23/03/2022 16:10, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>
>
>
>>> And the Ford 105E was introduced during the S1 production
>>> run.
>
>
>> I dont understand the relevance of that at all.
>
> A very over square engine. Which were the fashion for a while. But
> emission control caused a revert to longer stroke designs.
>

Jaguar production V12 motors were also very over square (70x90) but
obviously managaed to comply with US emission standards.

The later 6 litre models were even more oversquare.

All other things being equal, I have no idea what impact the bore:stroke
ratio has on emissions.

--
random signature text inserted here

Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

<59ce52bf68dave@davenoise.co.uk>

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2022 18:43:09 +0000 (GMT)
Organization: None
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Thu, 24 Mar 2022 18:43 UTC

In article <t1i5h3$bc1$1@dont-email.me>,
Abandoned_Trolley <fred@fred-smith.co.uk> wrote:
> On 24/03/2022 15:02, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> > In article <t1g1qj$gud$1@dont-email.me>,
> > Abandoned_Trolley <fred@fred-smith.co.uk> wrote:
> >> On 23/03/2022 16:10, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>> And the Ford 105E was introduced during the S1 production
> >>> run.
> >
> >
> >> I dont understand the relevance of that at all.
> >
> > A very over square engine. Which were the fashion for a while. But
> > emission control caused a revert to longer stroke designs.
> >

> Jaguar production V12 motors were also very over square (70x90) but
> obviously managaed to comply with US emission standards.

The 105E was 48 x 81. Very oversquare.

> The later 6 litre models were even more oversquare.

> All other things being equal, I have no idea what impact the bore:stroke
> ratio has on emissions.

Oversquare allowed bigger valves. But with 4 valve heads you can get the
same area with a smaller bore.

The current fashion (BMW etc) is for just slightly oversquare units.

--
*The most wasted day of all is one in which we have not laughed.*

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare

<ea414hhr19f2hfq0hs5l7um597c7u7kflf@4ax.com>

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From: cd...@notformail.com (Cursitor Doom)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Incredibly stupid brake pipe flare
Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2022 17:34:44 +0100
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 by: Cursitor Doom - Sun, 27 Mar 2022 16:34 UTC

On Wed, 23 Mar 2022 21:07:22 +0000, newshound
<sradcliffe544@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 23/03/2022 16:10, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> In article <t1fd9f$v12$1@dont-email.me>,
>
>>
>> The S1 engine would idle reliably at 175 rpm. Peak revs only about 4000.
>> Very restful way of proceeding. ;-) It wasn't actually that thirsty
>> either. My early XJ6 LWB 4.2 auto got the prize as the thirstiest car I've
>> ever owned.
>>
>
>Your posts prompted me to look up S1s. Honest John is listing several
>for sale, between £19k and £490k.

Anything over 100k needs to be coachbuilt to justify the additional
expense IMO. My preference is Mulliner. I just like that Art Deco
style bodyline design. I know a chap hereabouts with a couple of
Hooper-bodied Clouds, one owned by some hot-shot oil billionaire who
collected them. Hoopers are something else quality wise. They never
did anything on the cheap.

1
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