Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> tim... <timsnews99@gmail.com> wrote:
>> surely most overnight stock is dedicated to a specific journey
>>
>> That's why it's uneconomic
>
> Much EuroNight and similar stock, as well as further eastwards, covers
> multiple overlapping journeys. The train might run for several nights, but
> people get on and off at intermediate stations. The compartments convert
> into day seats, which could get used by day travellers who only spend a few
> hours on the train. Then they convert back to berths again in the night
> time.
>
> On these kinds of trains it's economic to have a dining car because people
> who are spending many hours on the train want things to eat.
>
> It's a UK-centric view that overnight stock is only for a single
> 'overnight', and that's because our lines aren't long enough for otherwise.
> Across Europe, Asia and North America that's not the rule.
>
> (although some specific routes - like the Talgo Paris-Madrid - might be
> short enough to have no day component)
>
Unfortunately the Paris-Madrid and Paris-Barcelona Talgo sleepers haven’t
run for sometime now since the high speed lines were completed.
The Barcelona one left Paris around 20.00 and arrived 7 am ish so yes
there was little day running.
Without the manoeuvres of Locomotive changes and passing the stock through
the gauge changer
the journey would have been around an hour shorter , up thread I mentioned
we used the dining car
after leaving Paris, we ate fairly early as our fare included the full
meal and drinks but meals were served till 2am and it wasn’t too long
before breakfast became available.

I have found this description of the service that is still lurking on the
web.

https://www.acprail.com/blog/2013/07/a-guide-to-the-elipsos-trenhotel/
The high speed line lets you do the journey in the day in a much shorter
time but isn’t as stylish.

AFAIK the Talgo stock is now used for internal sleeper services within
Spain.

GH

tim... <timsnews99@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> "Anna Noyd-Dryver" <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote in message
> news:s8om7s$fn9$6@dont-email.me...
>> tim... <timsnews99@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Marland" <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote in message
>>> news:ih59t9Fnrq3U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> tim... <timsnews99@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Marland" <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>> news:ih22u9F4ln8U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>> tim... <timsnews99@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Recliner" <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:s884a3$o1t$1@dont-email.me...
>>>>>>>> Macron restarts sleeper trains at €19 to stir green economy
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/9bb03338-b98d-11eb-9a91-c8c89595f50e?shareToken=8dc9e0aec757add1071166961461c378>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> why would one need a dining car for a journey that departs 10pm and
>>>>>>> arrives
>>>>>>> 8am
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> what meal are you going to want to eat during that time?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Could be useful to have an early meal if after reaching the
>>>>>> destination
>>>>>> you have a busy schedule and it avoids the uncertainty of finding
>>>>>> something
>>>>>> later.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Same applies at the other end of the day if provision of such a car
>>>>>> can
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> relied on then knowing that
>>>>>> a decent meal with some drinks can be taken after boarding releases
>>>>>> time
>>>>>> before then to do something else.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I could also see it as a way to pass some time for some people who
>>>>>> find
>>>>>> difficulty getting to sleep in an unfamiliar environment and want to
>>>>>> leave
>>>>>> the berth for awhile.
>>>>>
>>>>> thus disturbing the sleep of the people whom they are sharing the cabin
>>>>> with
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tough, Couchettes are cheapish communal sleeping which has some
>>>> disadvantages not a hotel room.
>>>> The chances of six people all going to sleep for 6 hours or so without
>>>> one
>>>> or two of them having to get out and visit the toilet at the end of
>>>> coach
>>>> is going to be rare so some disturbance is almost guaranteed if you are
>>>> a
>>>> light sleeper and that is before you include the likelyhood that there
>>>> may
>>>> be a heavy snorer or someone who has a bad cough as well.
>>>> Getting away from one of those by visiting a dining a car could be a
>>>> preferred option than lying under a blanket getting annoyed that someone
>>>> is
>>>> keeping one awake, feeling a bit tired after a meal is a natural
>>>> reaction
>>>> and upon returning to the berth someone who was finding it difficult to
>>>> sleep before due to snorers ,coughers or the unfamiliar environment and
>>>> noises of a moving train may be able to nod off.
>>>
>>> The point is that by having the dining car the train operator are
>>> encouraging people to leave the carriage and thus disturb their fellow
>>> passengers
>>>
>>> OTOH they could not have the dining car and encourage people to remain in
>>> they carriage for the duration (natural breaks excepted)
>>>
>>
>> But then you'd have to introduce some kind of distinguishment between
>> shorter journeys (eg 10pm-8am as mentioned) and longer journeys where
>> visiting the dining car would be expected.
>
> surely most overnight stock is dedicated to a specific journey
>
> That's why it's uneconomic
>

I meant in terms of service provision and publicity around that, etc; I'd
be somewhat peeved if I'd previously taken longer sleeper journeys with
lounge cars, and was expecting one on a shorter journey, but upon boarding
was told I can't even leave my cabin!

And is stock confined to certain routes? Certainly, night stock is confined
to night routes, that's a given. And where an operator only operates one
route, then clearly. Or things like the through carriages from Vienna to
Ukraine, for example. But where an operator runs a network of night
services from a central hub, I don't see why they should be dedicated to a
particular route.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

tim... <timsnews99@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> "Anna Noyd-Dryver" <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote in message
> news:s8om7s$fn9$5@dont-email.me...
>> tim... <timsnews99@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> "Recliner" <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:s884a3$o1t$1@dont-email.me...
>>>> Macron restarts sleeper trains at €19 to stir green economy
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/9bb03338-b98d-11eb-9a91-c8c89595f50e?shareToken=8dc9e0aec757add1071166961461c378>
>>>
>>> why would one need a dining car for a journey that departs 10pm and
>>> arrives
>>> 8am
>>>
>>> what meal are you going to want to eat during that time?
>>>
>>
>> A late evening meal (supper?),
>
> I'm sure that you could do that
>
> but how many people actually want to do that?
>

As already mentioned, people who have been busy all evening, people who've
travelled by connecting train from somewhere else...

IMLX of sleeper trains, I travelled Euston-Fort William twice in 2006, and
Euston-Glasgow in 2012; both times checking in to the train as early as
possible, securing good seats in the lounge car well before departure, and
eating there *for the experience of doing so*. Admittedly the highland
sleeper leaves rather earlier, but I did the same on the lowland. People
use the lounge car because they want to! Even if you're not eating, it's a
pleasant place for a nightcap.

See also dinner and a drink on board the Harwich-Hook ferry, which is also
a short journey.

> IME of overnight travel most people seem to want to get in their bunks ASAP
> because they *know* they are going to have a shitty night's sleep and want
> to make the potential sleeping time as long as possible
>
>> and/or breakfast?
>

I see you've completely ignored this very sensible suggestion.

Anna Noyd-Dryver