On 18/11/2021 14:06, Eddie wrote:
> On 18/11/2021 12:33, Mike Fleming wrote:
>> On 17/11/2021 21:02, Eddie wrote:
>>>
>>> Have you ever worked it out, just to see?
>>
>> A quick look round this room - 84 strings of bass, 12 of electric
>> guitar, 18 of steel acoustic guitar, 6 of nylon acoustic, one set of
>> double bass strings at £eek!, and 9 bass uke rubber strings. There's 6
>> and 12-string acoustics and another few basses upstairs.
>
> Yikes.
>
> Never mind the expense, just think of the man-hours involved to restring
> all that lot.
>
>>>>> Alternatively: I used to boil my strings to get some more life out
>>>>> of them, back when I was a cheapskate that couldn't afford new ones.
>>>>
>>>> I've tried that. Didn't work.
>>>
>>> Heh. Yeah, that's what I decided eventually.
>>
>> I think I also tried with assorted chemicals. Still didn't work.
>
> You're meant to put the chemicals in with the strings, not ingest them
> yourself.

I was living the rock'n'roll lifestyle. cf. Keith Richards.

On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 4:29:27 PM UTC, Champ wrote:
>
> For reference, one of the full-time drivers with Bus Vannin is a ..
> certain Richard Quayle [1] [2]
>
> [1] https://www.iomtt.com/tt-database/competitors?ride_id=4383
> [2] better known as 'Milky'

Oh, I can see it now "So, that's the line Milky takes through Parliament Square, eh?
Well I reckon if Mrs Miggins has the right change at the Creg, I've got a chance of getting him
on the braking for Signpost...".

There's definitely scope here...

--
WUN

On Thu, 18 Nov 2021 15:51:23 -0800 (PST), WUN <nigel.eaton@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Tuesday, November 16, 2021 at 4:29:27 PM UTC, Champ wrote:
>>
>> For reference, one of the full-time drivers with Bus Vannin is a ..
>> certain Richard Quayle [1] [2]
>>
>> [1] https://www.iomtt.com/tt-database/competitors?ride_id=4383
>> [2] better known as 'Milky'

>Oh, I can see it now "So, that's the line Milky takes through Parliament Square, eh?
>Well I reckon if Mrs Miggins has the right change at the Creg, I've got a chance of getting him
>on the braking for Signpost...".
>
>There's definitely scope here...

heh
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On 17/11/2021 18:42, Mike Fleming wrote:
> On 17/11/2021 17:23, Eddie wrote:
>> On 17/11/2021 16:50, Mike Fleming wrote:

>> Alternatively: I used to boil my strings to get some more life out of
>> them, back when I was a cheapskate that couldn't afford new ones.
>
> I've tried that. Didn't work.

You don't need to boil them, try a sonic cleaner :-)
HTH

--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On 17/11/2021 17:23, Eddie wrote:
> On 17/11/2021 16:50, Mike Fleming wrote:
>> On 17/11/2021 06:33, Champ wrote:
>>> On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 01:46:59 +0000, Eddie <eddie@deguello.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Apart from the obvious defect of it having too many strings, of course.
>>>
>>> I thought it had a lot of strings for a bass, too :-)
>>
>> Most of mine are five-strings, plus a couple of six-strings, a
>> seven-string, one ten-string (a five-string with octave strings like a
>> 12-string guitar) and a Mobius Megatar 12-string which I really should
>> try to master sometime.
>
> I used to be half-competent with just four strings, but many years
> without practice has lost much of that. Any more than four would be
> wasted on me.

There is a school of thought that any bass player who needs more than 4
strings is just a wannabee lead guitarist :-)

Personally, 4 is enough.
Similarly I have strung my Framus 12-string with just eight strings for
several decades. (Ie the six usual ones plus the D & G octaves which
gives a fuller sound that mere 6 strings and yet is much more versatile
than the full 12)
Otherwise, I have the full eight on my mandolin
And five on the banjo...
:-)

--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 15:32:48 +0000, "ChrisND @UKRM"
<chrisnd@privacy.net> wrote:

>Similarly I have strung my Framus 12-string with just eight strings for
>several decades. (Ie the six usual ones plus the D & G octaves which
>gives a fuller sound that mere 6 strings and yet is much more versatile
>than the full 12)

Must be wierd to play like that, and I can't see any way in which it
would be more 'versatile'. Explain, please, I'm intrigued.

(I'm a 12-string fingerpicker, for context).

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On 20/11/2021 08:52, Ace wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 15:32:48 +0000, "ChrisND @UKRM"
> <chrisnd@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> Similarly I have strung my Framus 12-string with just eight strings for
>> several decades. (Ie the six usual ones plus the D & G octaves which
>> gives a fuller sound that mere 6 strings and yet is much more versatile
>> than the full 12)
>
> Must be wierd to play like that, and I can't see any way in which it
> would be more 'versatile'. Explain, please, I'm intrigued.
>
> (I'm a 12-string fingerpicker, for context).
>
I do finger picking too.
The problem with a 12 string is that the variation in tone when playing
is relatively 'flat' compared with what you can do on a 6 string. Ie a
12 string will always sound like a 12 string, nomatter how you play it,
compared with a six string from which you can get a far wider range of
tone 'colours'.

Using the 8 strung version you retain most of the 6 string variation in
tones whilst having a somewhat fuller sound.

It also has the advantage of making finger picking sound cleverer :-)

I admit, I went for it originally because I couldn't afford a full
replacement set at one time - and also because my (then) use of heavy
gauge strings had started to distort the top of the body!

C

--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 10:13:17 +0000, "ChrisND @UKRM"
<chrisnd@privacy.net> wrote:

>On 20/11/2021 08:52, Ace wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 15:32:48 +0000, "ChrisND @UKRM"
>> <chrisnd@privacy.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Similarly I have strung my Framus 12-string with just eight strings for
>>> several decades. (Ie the six usual ones plus the D & G octaves which
>>> gives a fuller sound that mere 6 strings and yet is much more versatile
>>> than the full 12)
>>
>> Must be wierd to play like that, and I can't see any way in which it
>> would be more 'versatile'. Explain, please, I'm intrigued.
>>
>> (I'm a 12-string fingerpicker, for context).
>>
>I do finger picking too.
>The problem with a 12 string is that the variation in tone when playing
>is relatively 'flat' compared with what you can do on a 6 string. Ie a
>12 string will always sound like a 12 string, nomatter how you play it,
>compared with a six string from which you can get a far wider range of
>tone 'colours'.

Not sure I follow this, TBH. Sure, _some_ 12-strings are designed to
be very bright and trebly, so removing the extra strings from the high
range will reduce this, but that's not increasing its tonal range,
simply removing a built-in bias, and it just sounds like you've got
the wrong guitar for the job.

I have a Guild, Jumbo-bodied, from 1972. I utterly love it. Gives a
lovely mellow tone throughout the range,

>Using the 8 strung version you retain most of the 6 string variation in
>tones whilst having a somewhat fuller sound.

I still don't see how a 6-string can have more tonal variation.

>It also has the advantage of making finger picking sound cleverer :-)

Naah. Cleverer than a 6-string, perhaps, if you're able to pick the
octave strngs independently, but not more so than with all 12.

>I admit, I went for it originally because I couldn't afford a full
>replacement set at one time - and also because my (then) use of heavy
>gauge strings had started to distort the top of the body!

Yeah, my body is quite badly distorted too. As is the guitar, but it's
only a visual thing, the neck is still perfectly aligned and the sound
is still wonderful.
--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 11:29:07 +0100, Ace <Ace@ch.com> wrote:

>>I admit, I went for it originally because I couldn't afford a full
>>replacement set at one time - and also because my (then) use of heavy
>>gauge strings had started to distort the top of the body!

>Yeah, my body is quite badly distorted too. As is the guitar

badoom tish!
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On 20/11/2021 10:13, ChrisND @UKRM wrote:
> On 20/11/2021 08:52, Ace wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 15:32:48 +0000, "ChrisND @UKRM"
>> <chrisnd@privacy.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Similarly I have strung my Framus 12-string with just eight strings for
>>> several decades. (Ie the six usual ones plus the D & G octaves which
>>> gives a fuller sound that mere 6 strings and yet is much more versatile
>>> than the full 12)
>>
>> Must be wierd to play like that, and I can't see any way in which it
>> would be more 'versatile'. Explain, please, I'm intrigued.
>>
>> (I'm a 12-string fingerpicker, for context).
>>
> I do finger picking too.
> The problem with a 12 string is that the variation in tone when playing
> is relatively 'flat' compared with what you can do on a 6 string.  Ie a
> 12 string will always sound like a 12 string, nomatter how you play it,
> compared with a six string from which you can get a far wider range of
> tone 'colours'.
>
> Using the 8 strung version you retain most of the 6 string variation in
> tones whilst having a somewhat fuller sound.
>
> It also has the advantage of making finger picking sound cleverer :-)

You could always do what I do - use a Variax 700 acoustic and set it to
a six-string or 12-string depending on what you want it to sound like.

On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 15:39:19 +0000, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk>
wrote:

>You could always do what I do - use a Variax 700 acoustic and set it to
>a six-string or 12-string depending on what you want it to sound like.

That's cheating.

And presumably needs to be plugged into an amp. Not what I'd call an
acoustic.

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

El Sun, 14 Nov 2021 14:18:51 +0100, Ace escribió:

> On 14 Nov 2021 12:14:07 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com>
> wrote:

>>>> Having said that, I want a Cordoba C12 and can't afford it now.

>>...I've been dabbling on and off for about 2 years and I still
>>can't play a tune. My arpeggios and scales are pretty tidy though.
>

> I would humbly suggest then, that your desire for an expensive guitar is
> probably somewhat misplaced. It's almost impossible for a relative
> novice to get any worthwile benefit, sound-wise, or indeed in ease of
> playing, out of a top-spec instrument. (Sometimes the opposite may be
> true),
>
> It's all very well to lust after, but I'd focus that lust on the desire
> to improve to the level where such an instrument would be worthwhile, by
> which time, who knows? you might even be able to afford it.

Heh. Just had a flashback to you making me throw my skis away (that I'd
gone into debt to buy, back in the 80s).

Then I remembered when I was riding the VTR and mentioned, in passing,
that I liked the look of the SP1. AndyR said when I could go around
corners at quicker than walking pace, that might be the time to consider
an upgrade.

Heh. There is no right time. Or should I say, the right time is when you
can do it without financial (or matrimonial) pain.

I may have to sell a kidney.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

On 20/11/2021 16:13, Ace wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 15:39:19 +0000, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> You could always do what I do - use a Variax 700 acoustic and set it to
>> a six-string or 12-string depending on what you want it to sound like.
>
> That's cheating.
>
> And presumably needs to be plugged into an amp. Not what I'd call an
> acoustic.

Now you're just getting picky. Pun not intended.

It does have the advantage of a very slimline body, so it's easier to
play with my fatline body.

On 20/11/2021 16:30, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>
> Heh. There is no right time. Or should I say, the right time is when you
> can do it without financial (or matrimonial) pain.
>
> I may have to sell a kidney.

I operate on the principle of it being easier to ask for forgiveness
than permission. This time round it was "You know you were asking me
what I'd like for my birthday? Could I have a forgiveness please?".

On 20 Nov 2021 16:30:55 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com>
wrote:

>El Sun, 14 Nov 2021 14:18:51 +0100, Ace escribió:

>> It's all very well to lust after, but I'd focus that lust on the desire
>> to improve to the level where such an instrument would be worthwhile, by
>> which time, who knows? you might even be able to afford it.
>
>
>Heh. Just had a flashback to you making me throw my skis away (that I'd
>gone into debt to buy, back in the 80s).
>
>Then I remembered when I was riding the VTR and mentioned, in passing,
>that I liked the look of the SP1. AndyR said when I could go around
>corners at quicker than walking pace, that might be the time to consider
>an upgrade.

Yeah well, there's often a bit of a dilemma on any learning curve, not
knowing whether the equipment is too crap, old or knackered to be able
to improve on, like your skis, or if it's the opposite, and the tool
itself demands a level of skill not yet attained.

>Heh. There is no right time. Or should I say, the right time is when you
>can do it without financial (or matrimonial) pain.

Sounds now like your guitar urge is neither of them, but if you want
to justify it to SWMBO you should perhaps suggest that your exisiting
instrument is what's holding you back...

>I may have to sell a kidney.

Or a house? Or is that a long-gone world for you now?

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

El Sun, 21 Nov 2021 08:53:56 +0100, Ace escribió:

> On 20 Nov 2021 16:30:55 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>El Sun, 14 Nov 2021 14:18:51 +0100, Ace escribió:
>
>>> It's all very well to lust after, but I'd focus that lust on the
>>> desire to improve to the level where such an instrument would be
>>> worthwhile, by which time, who knows? you might even be able to afford
>>> it.
>>
>>
>>Heh. Just had a flashback to you making me throw my skis away (that I'd
>>gone into debt to buy, back in the 80s).
>>
>>Then I remembered when I was riding the VTR and mentioned, in passing,
>>that I liked the look of the SP1. AndyR said when I could go around
>>corners at quicker than walking pace, that might be the time to consider
>>an upgrade.
>
> Yeah well, there's often a bit of a dilemma on any learning curve, not
> knowing whether the equipment is too crap, old or knackered to be able
> to improve on, like your skis, or if it's the opposite, and the tool
> itself demands a level of skill not yet attained.
>
>>Heh. There is no right time. Or should I say, the right time is when you
>>can do it without financial (or matrimonial) pain.
>
> Sounds now like your guitar urge is neither of them, but if you want to
> justify it to SWMBO you should perhaps suggest that your exisiting
> instrument is what's holding you back...

Strangely enough, that was my argument in favour of her recent purchase
of a new violin. The one she had was tuppence off Ebay and was awful. So
we got her a "posh" one for 450€. She is now enthusiastically attending
classes and is improving.

I do still have a couple of bob in reserve, so could just buy a new
guitar without pain, but I like to keep a reasonable amount of cash "just
in case". Bloody good job too, as we have survived the las 18 months on
very little income.
>>I may have to sell a kidney.
>
> Or a house? Or is that a long-gone world for you now?

We have a few properties, but depend on them for income.

I may have to consider dumping the Latin studies in favour of more guitar
time, but I don't really want to.

Anyway, I'm going to plod on with the guitar that I have until one day
the mouse cursor drifts over the "buy" button and I accidentally click :-)

STOP PRESS: I have just discovered Fernando Sor. My 2 years of nothing
but technique practice just ended :-)

BTW, it's your turn to visit us.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

On 21 Nov 2021 09:44:57 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com>
wrote:

>BTW, it's your turn to visit us.

Thanks for the invite, maybe take you up on that at some point. Is
there any summer skiing in the Sierra Nevada these days?

--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

El Sun, 21 Nov 2021 11:53:31 +0100, Ace escribió:

> On 21 Nov 2021 09:44:57 GMT, Paul Carmichael <wibbleypants@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>>BTW, it's your turn to visit us.
>
> Thanks for the invite, maybe take you up on that at some point. Is there
> any summer skiing in the Sierra Nevada these days?

I believe not. They have an impressive array of new snow canons though,
so who knows? But I'm pretty sure there's no trace of any glacier up
there. In the summer it's a climbing/trecking/MB resort. We went one year
and hiked to the very top. 360º views - sea, city, olives. Twas very cold
- I damn near wet myself.

https://sierranevada.es/

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

On 20/11/2021 23:40, Mike Fleming wrote:
> On 20/11/2021 16:30, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>
>> Heh. There is no right time. Or should I say, the right time is when you
>> can do it without financial (or matrimonial) pain.
>>
>> I may have to sell a kidney.
>
> I operate on the principle of it being easier to ask for forgiveness
> than permission. This time round it was "You know you were asking me
> what I'd like for my birthday? Could I have a forgiveness please?".
>
>
Ooh nice one!

--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On 20/11/2021 10:29, Ace wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 10:13:17 +0000, "ChrisND @UKRM"
> <chrisnd@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>> On 20/11/2021 08:52, Ace wrote:
>>> On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 15:32:48 +0000, "ChrisND @UKRM"
>>> <chrisnd@privacy.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Similarly I have strung my Framus 12-string with just eight strings for
>>>> several decades. (Ie the six usual ones plus the D & G octaves which
>>>> gives a fuller sound that mere 6 strings and yet is much more versatile
>>>> than the full 12)
>>>
>>> Must be wierd to play like that, and I can't see any way in which it
>>> would be more 'versatile'. Explain, please, I'm intrigued.
>>>
>>> (I'm a 12-string fingerpicker, for context).
>>>
>> I do finger picking too.
>> The problem with a 12 string is that the variation in tone when playing
>> is relatively 'flat' compared with what you can do on a 6 string. Ie a
>> 12 string will always sound like a 12 string, nomatter how you play it,
>> compared with a six string from which you can get a far wider range of
>> tone 'colours'.
>
> Not sure I follow this, TBH. Sure, _some_ 12-strings are designed to
> be very bright and trebly, so removing the extra strings from the high
> range will reduce this, but that's not increasing its tonal range,
> simply removing a built-in bias, and it just sounds like you've got
> the wrong guitar for the job.
>
> I have a Guild, Jumbo-bodied, from 1972. I utterly love it. Gives a
> lovely mellow tone throughout the range,
>
>> Using the 8 strung version you retain most of the 6 string variation in
>> tones whilst having a somewhat fuller sound.
>
> I still don't see how a 6-string can have more tonal variation.
>
>> It also has the advantage of making finger picking sound cleverer :-)
>
> Naah. Cleverer than a 6-string, perhaps, if you're able to pick the
> octave strngs independently, but not more so than with all 12.

Fairy snuff, horses for course and all that, but maybe next time you do
a restringing try using just the eight in passing and see what you think
mebbe?
C

--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 15:39:19 +0000, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk>
wrote:

>> It also has the advantage of making finger picking sound cleverer :-)

>You could always do what I do - use a Variax 700 acoustic and set it to
>a six-string or 12-string depending on what you want it to sound like.

Ooh, I've got a Variax, too! Can't remember what model - one of the
early ones, maybe a 600. I bought it 2nd hand. Works really nicely
with my Line 6 amp. The modelled sounds are genuinely very
impressive.
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On 21/11/2021 16:33, Champ wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 15:39:19 +0000, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>> It also has the advantage of making finger picking sound cleverer :-)
>
>> You could always do what I do - use a Variax 700 acoustic and set it to
>> a six-string or 12-string depending on what you want it to sound like.
>
> Ooh, I've got a Variax, too! Can't remember what model - one of the
> early ones, maybe a 600. I bought it 2nd hand. Works really nicely
> with my Line 6 amp. The modelled sounds are genuinely very
> impressive.

I've got a 300 (fitted with a Roland pickup), a JTV59, the 700 acoustic,
and a 705 bass (the 5-string version). Plus an old POD, a POD HD500, and
a HX Stomp. I think I may be a bit of a Line 6 fanboi.

On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 00:19:27 +0000, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 21/11/2021 16:33, Champ wrote:
>> On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 15:39:19 +0000, Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> It also has the advantage of making finger picking sound cleverer :-)
>>
>>> You could always do what I do - use a Variax 700 acoustic and set it to
>>> a six-string or 12-string depending on what you want it to sound like.
>>
>> Ooh, I've got a Variax, too! Can't remember what model - one of the
>> early ones, maybe a 600. I bought it 2nd hand. Works really nicely
>> with my Line 6 amp. The modelled sounds are genuinely very
>> impressive.
>
>I've got a 300 (fitted with a Roland pickup)

Ah, mine might be a 300 - that rings a bell

>a JTV59, the 700 acoustic,
>and a 705 bass (the 5-string version). Plus an old POD, a POD HD500, and
>a HX Stomp. I think I may be a bit of a Line 6 fanboi.

So am I, but not to that extent!
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old