<https://news.sky.com/story/one-dead-and-30-injured-after-passenger-trai
n-derails-in-the-netherlands-12849509>

"One person has died and dozens have been injured after a passenger
train derailed in the south of the Netherlands, at around 3.25am local
time (2.25am BST).

It was reportedly caused by left over construction equipment on the
tracks..."
--
Roland Perry

On 04/04/2023 07:24, Roland Perry wrote:
> <https://news.sky.com/story/one-dead-and-30-injured-after-passenger-trai
> n-derails-in-the-netherlands-12849509>
>
> "One person has died and dozens have been injured after a passenger
> train derailed in the south of the Netherlands, at around 3.25am local
> time (2.25am BST).
>
> It was reportedly caused by left over construction equipment on the
> tracks..."

Further details in a parallel thread "OT: Fatal Dutch train crash".

In message <u0h5fd$3dt8f$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:33:48 on Tue, 4 Apr
2023, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>On 04/04/2023 07:24, Roland Perry wrote:
>> <https://news.sky.com/story/one-dead-and-30-injured-after-passenger-trai
>> n-derails-in-the-netherlands-12849509>

>> "One person has died and dozens have been injured after a passenger
>> train derailed in the south of the Netherlands, at around 3.25am local
>> time (2.25am BST).

>> It was reportedly caused by left over construction equipment on the
>> tracks..."
>
>Further details in a parallel thread "OT: Fatal Dutch train crash".

Especially policy wonkery about GMT.

Meanwhile, maybe what the train struck was a lineside crane, and the
dead person that crane driver, not a passenger. Injured passengers
reported (through the fog) to have been partly a result of being fried
by the OHL: so better circuit-breakers required??
--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 15:06:04 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

>In message <u0h5fd$3dt8f$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:33:48 on Tue, 4 Apr
>2023, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>>On 04/04/2023 07:24, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> <https://news.sky.com/story/one-dead-and-30-injured-after-passenger-trai
>>> n-derails-in-the-netherlands-12849509>
>
>>> "One person has died and dozens have been injured after a passenger
>>> train derailed in the south of the Netherlands, at around 3.25am local
>>> time (2.25am BST).
>
>>> It was reportedly caused by left over construction equipment on the
>>> tracks..."
>>
>>Further details in a parallel thread "OT: Fatal Dutch train crash".
>
>Especially policy wonkery about GMT.
>
>Meanwhile, maybe what the train struck was a lineside crane, and the
>dead person that crane driver, not a passenger. Injured passengers
>reported (through the fog) to have been partly a result of being fried
>by the OHL: so better circuit-breakers required??

No, all of those theories are wrong.

In message <3fco2i9fg42th4no8bno8kv6b6s1g4aqud@4ax.com>, at 15:19:34 on
Tue, 4 Apr 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 15:06:04 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <u0h5fd$3dt8f$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:33:48 on Tue, 4 Apr
>>2023, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>>>On 04/04/2023 07:24, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> <https://news.sky.com/story/one-dead-and-30-injured-after-passenger-trai
>>>> n-derails-in-the-netherlands-12849509>
>>
>>>> "One person has died and dozens have been injured after a passenger
>>>> train derailed in the south of the Netherlands, at around 3.25am local
>>>> time (2.25am BST).
>>
>>>> It was reportedly caused by left over construction equipment on the
>>>> tracks..."
>>>
>>>Further details in a parallel thread "OT: Fatal Dutch train crash".
>>
>>Especially policy wonkery about GMT.
>>
>>Meanwhile, maybe what the train struck was a lineside crane, and the
>>dead person that crane driver, not a passenger. Injured passengers
>>reported (through the fog) to have been partly a result of being fried
>>by the OHL: so better circuit-breakers required??
>
>No, all of those theories are wrong.

Maybe need to tell the press;

"A train in the Netherlands rammed into a maintenance crane on the
tracks before it derailed and ploughed into a field, killing the
crane operator and injuring dozens of passengers."
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <3fco2i9fg42th4no8bno8kv6b6s1g4aqud@4ax.com>, at 15:19:34 on
> Tue, 4 Apr 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 15:06:04 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <u0h5fd$3dt8f$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:33:48 on Tue, 4 Apr
>>> 2023, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>>>> On 04/04/2023 07:24, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> <https://news.sky.com/story/one-dead-and-30-injured-after-passenger-trai
>>>>> n-derails-in-the-netherlands-12849509>
>>>
>>>>> "One person has died and dozens have been injured after a passenger
>>>>> train derailed in the south of the Netherlands, at around 3.25am local
>>>>> time (2.25am BST).
>>>
>>>>> It was reportedly caused by left over construction equipment on the
>>>>> tracks..."
>>>>
>>>> Further details in a parallel thread "OT: Fatal Dutch train crash".
>>>
>>> Especially policy wonkery about GMT.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, maybe what the train struck was a lineside crane, and the
>>> dead person that crane driver, not a passenger. Injured passengers
>>> reported (through the fog) to have been partly a result of being fried
>>> by the OHL: so better circuit-breakers required??
>>
>> No, all of those theories are wrong.
>
> Maybe need to tell the press;
>
> "A train in the Netherlands rammed into a maintenance crane on the
> tracks before it derailed and ploughed into a field, killing the
> crane operator and injuring dozens of passengers."

Yes, agreed, you were right on that. It suggests that the crane was
actually on the running track, not just fouling it from the adjacent closed
track. That, in turn, suggests signalling failures.

In message <u0je2g$3ra0p$5@dont-email.me>, at 09:12:48 on Wed, 5 Apr
2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <3fco2i9fg42th4no8bno8kv6b6s1g4aqud@4ax.com>, at 15:19:34 on
>> Tue, 4 Apr 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 15:06:04 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <u0h5fd$3dt8f$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:33:48 on Tue, 4 Apr
>>>> 2023, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>>>>> On 04/04/2023 07:24, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> <https://news.sky.com/story/one-dead-and-30-injured-after-passenger-trai
>>>>>> n-derails-in-the-netherlands-12849509>
>>>>
>>>>>> "One person has died and dozens have been injured after a passenger
>>>>>> train derailed in the south of the Netherlands, at around 3.25am local
>>>>>> time (2.25am BST).
>>>>
>>>>>> It was reportedly caused by left over construction equipment on the
>>>>>> tracks..."
>>>>>
>>>>> Further details in a parallel thread "OT: Fatal Dutch train crash".
>>>>
>>>> Especially policy wonkery about GMT.
>>>>
>>>> Meanwhile, maybe what the train struck was a lineside crane, and the
>>>> dead person that crane driver, not a passenger. Injured passengers
>>>> reported (through the fog) to have been partly a result of being fried
>>>> by the OHL: so better circuit-breakers required??
>>>
>>> No, all of those theories are wrong.
>>
>> Maybe need to tell the press;
>>
>> "A train in the Netherlands rammed into a maintenance crane on the
>> tracks before it derailed and ploughed into a field, killing the
>> crane operator and injuring dozens of passengers."
>
>Yes, agreed, you were right on that. It suggests that the crane was
>actually on the running track, not just fouling it from the adjacent closed
>track. That, in turn, suggests signalling failures.

Some writers are asking if the passenger train was on the wrong (ie
supposedly under possession) track.

That should be something trivially easy for the authorities to verify.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <u0je2g$3ra0p$5@dont-email.me>, at 09:12:48 on Wed, 5 Apr
> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <3fco2i9fg42th4no8bno8kv6b6s1g4aqud@4ax.com>, at 15:19:34 on
>>> Tue, 4 Apr 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 15:06:04 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <u0h5fd$3dt8f$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:33:48 on Tue, 4 Apr
>>>>> 2023, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>>>>>> On 04/04/2023 07:24, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> <https://news.sky.com/story/one-dead-and-30-injured-after-passenger-trai
>>>>>>> n-derails-in-the-netherlands-12849509>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> "One person has died and dozens have been injured after a passenger
>>>>>>> train derailed in the south of the Netherlands, at around 3.25am local
>>>>>>> time (2.25am BST).
>>>>>
>>>>>>> It was reportedly caused by left over construction equipment on the
>>>>>>> tracks..."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Further details in a parallel thread "OT: Fatal Dutch train crash".
>>>>>
>>>>> Especially policy wonkery about GMT.
>>>>>
>>>>> Meanwhile, maybe what the train struck was a lineside crane, and the
>>>>> dead person that crane driver, not a passenger. Injured passengers
>>>>> reported (through the fog) to have been partly a result of being fried
>>>>> by the OHL: so better circuit-breakers required??
>>>>
>>>> No, all of those theories are wrong.
>>>
>>> Maybe need to tell the press;
>>>
>>> "A train in the Netherlands rammed into a maintenance crane on the
>>> tracks before it derailed and ploughed into a field, killing the
>>> crane operator and injuring dozens of passengers."
>>
>> Yes, agreed, you were right on that. It suggests that the crane was
>> actually on the running track, not just fouling it from the adjacent closed
>> track. That, in turn, suggests signalling failures.
>
> Some writers are asking if the passenger train was on the wrong (ie
> supposedly under possession) track.
>
> That should be something trivially easy for the authorities to verify.

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2023/04/leiden-the-hague-train-services-cancelled-until-at-least/

ProRail CEO John Foppen said the crane was being used on two rail lines
that were closed for scheduled maintenance work, parallel to the lines the
trains were travelling on. The investigation will focus on how the crane
came to be on an active line, Foppen said. ‘I’ve worked on the rails for 17
years and never seen anything like this.’

On 05/04/2023 10:27, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <u0je2g$3ra0p$5@dont-email.me>, at 09:12:48 on Wed, 5 Apr
> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <3fco2i9fg42th4no8bno8kv6b6s1g4aqud@4ax.com>, at 15:19:34 on
>>> Tue, 4 Apr 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 15:06:04 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <u0h5fd$3dt8f$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:33:48 on Tue, 4 Apr
>>>>> 2023, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>>>>>> On 04/04/2023 07:24, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> <https://news.sky.com/story/one-dead-and-30-injured-after-passenger-trai
>>>>>>> n-derails-in-the-netherlands-12849509>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> "One person has died and dozens have been injured after a passenger
>>>>>>> train derailed in the south of the Netherlands, at around 3.25am
>>>>>>> local
>>>>>>> time (2.25am BST).
>>>>>
>>>>>>> It was reportedly caused by left over construction equipment on the
>>>>>>> tracks..."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Further details in a parallel thread "OT: Fatal Dutch train crash".
>>>>>
>>>>> Especially policy wonkery about GMT.
>>>>>
>>>>> Meanwhile, maybe what the train struck was a lineside crane, and the
>>>>> dead person that crane driver, not a passenger. Injured passengers
>>>>> reported (through the fog) to have been partly a result of being fried
>>>>> by the OHL: so better circuit-breakers required??
>>>>
>>>> No, all of those theories are wrong.
>>>
>>> Maybe need to tell the press;
>>>
>>>    "A train in the Netherlands rammed into a maintenance crane on the
>>>     tracks before it derailed and ploughed into a field, killing the
>>>     crane operator and injuring dozens of passengers."
>>
>> Yes, agreed, you were right on that. It suggests that the crane was
>> actually on the running track, not just fouling it from the adjacent
>> closed
>> track. That, in turn, suggests signalling failures.
>
> Some writers are asking if the passenger train was on the wrong (ie
> supposedly under possession) track.
>
> That should be something trivially easy for the authorities to verify.

The later reports seem agreed that the freight train hit the crane first
and deflected it into the path of the passenger service.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <u0jfsr$3riu8$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:43:55 on Wed, 5 Apr
2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <u0je2g$3ra0p$5@dont-email.me>, at 09:12:48 on Wed, 5 Apr
>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <3fco2i9fg42th4no8bno8kv6b6s1g4aqud@4ax.com>, at 15:19:34 on
>>>> Tue, 4 Apr 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 15:06:04 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <u0h5fd$3dt8f$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:33:48 on Tue, 4 Apr
>>>>>> 2023, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>>>>>>> On 04/04/2023 07:24, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>><https://news.sky.com/story/one-dead-and-30-injured-after-passenger-trai
>>>>>>>> n-derails-in-the-netherlands-12849509>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "One person has died and dozens have been injured after a passenger
>>>>>>>> train derailed in the south of the Netherlands, at around 3.25am local
>>>>>>>> time (2.25am BST).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It was reportedly caused by left over construction equipment on the
>>>>>>>> tracks..."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Further details in a parallel thread "OT: Fatal Dutch train crash".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Especially policy wonkery about GMT.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Meanwhile, maybe what the train struck was a lineside crane, and the
>>>>>> dead person that crane driver, not a passenger. Injured passengers
>>>>>> reported (through the fog) to have been partly a result of being fried
>>>>>> by the OHL: so better circuit-breakers required??
>>>>>
>>>>> No, all of those theories are wrong.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe need to tell the press;
>>>>
>>>> "A train in the Netherlands rammed into a maintenance crane on the
>>>> tracks before it derailed and ploughed into a field, killing the
>>>> crane operator and injuring dozens of passengers."
>>>
>>> Yes, agreed, you were right on that. It suggests that the crane was
>>> actually on the running track, not just fouling it from the adjacent closed
>>> track. That, in turn, suggests signalling failures.
>>
>> Some writers are asking if the passenger train was on the wrong (ie
>> supposedly under possession) track.
>>
>> That should be something trivially easy for the authorities to verify.
>
>https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2023/04/leiden-the-hague-train-services-ca
>ncelled-until-at-least/
>
>ProRail CEO John Foppen said the crane was being used on two rail lines
>that were closed for scheduled maintenance work, parallel to the lines the
>trains were travelling on. The investigation will focus on how the crane
>came to be on an active line, Foppen said. ‘I’ve worked on the rails for 17
>years and never seen anything like this.’

Or has happened in the UK, adjacent tracks/land.

Interesting they think the crane was on the wrong track, rather than the
passenger train.
--
Roland Perry

Am 05.04.2023 um 15:50 schrieb Roland Perry:
> In message <u0jfsr$3riu8$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:43:55 on Wed, 5 Apr
> 2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <u0je2g$3ra0p$5@dont-email.me>, at 09:12:48 on Wed, 5 Apr
>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <3fco2i9fg42th4no8bno8kv6b6s1g4aqud@4ax.com>, at
>>>>> 15:19:34 on
>>>>> Tue, 4 Apr 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 15:06:04 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In message <u0h5fd$3dt8f$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:33:48 on Tue, 4 Apr
>>>>>>> 2023, Certes <Certes@example.org> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On 04/04/2023 07:24, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <https://news.sky.com/story/one-dead-and-30-injured-after-passenger-trai
>>>>>>>>> n-derails-in-the-netherlands-12849509>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "One person has died and dozens have been injured after a
>>>>>>>>> passenger
>>>>>>>>> train derailed in the south of the Netherlands, at around
>>>>>>>>> 3.25am local
>>>>>>>>> time (2.25am BST).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It was reportedly caused by left over construction equipment on
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> tracks..."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Further details in a parallel thread "OT: Fatal Dutch train crash".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Especially policy wonkery about GMT.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Meanwhile, maybe what the train struck was a lineside crane, and the
>>>>>>> dead person that crane driver, not a passenger. Injured passengers
>>>>>>> reported (through the fog) to have been partly a result of being
>>>>>>> fried
>>>>>>> by the OHL: so better circuit-breakers required??
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No, all of those theories are wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe need to tell the press;
>>>>>
>>>>> "A train in the Netherlands rammed into a maintenance crane on the
>>>>> tracks before it derailed and ploughed into a field, killing the
>>>>> crane operator and injuring dozens of passengers."
>>>>
>>>> Yes, agreed, you were right on that. It suggests that the crane was
>>>> actually on the running track, not just fouling it from the adjacent
>>>> closed
>>>> track. That, in turn, suggests signalling failures.
>>>
>>> Some writers are asking if the passenger train was on the wrong (ie
>>> supposedly under possession) track.
>>>
>>> That should be something trivially easy for the authorities to verify.
>>
>> https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2023/04/leiden-the-hague-train-services-ca
>> ncelled-until-at-least/
>>
>> ProRail CEO John Foppen said the crane was being used on two rail lines
>> that were closed for scheduled maintenance work, parallel to the lines
>> the
>> trains were travelling on. The investigation will focus on how the crane
>> came to be on an active line, Foppen said. ‘I’ve worked on the rails
>> for 17
>> years and never seen anything like this.’
>
> Or has happened in the UK, adjacent tracks/land.
>
> Interesting they think the crane was on the wrong track, rather than the
> passenger train.

This way it would not have been a signalling failure, these 'very light
vehicles' are not necessarily designed to trigger 'track blocked' events.

We had a similar accident a few years ago in Germany: one track of a
two-track line was closed for maintenance work. The driver of a
multi-mode digger entered the live track instead of the closed track.
Esablished reason for the accident was imprecise communication between
track maintenance company and the sub-contractor driving the digger.

Rolf

Rolf