<http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Newquay2.jpg>

Passenger (not myself) reports they were initially a little concerned
that the PIS didn't give a platform number. But on closer examination
there is only one platform, and only one train (every 2hrs).

A hop to Par, then another to Plymouth. How was the second train -
"another grotty local one" (ahem, Castle Class).

On arrival at Plymouth with a 6 minute connection, disappointed by the
briefness not to be able to buy something for lunch.

Gets on train, here we go: Carriage A - B - C - D - G - H...

....hang on, what happened to "E" (where they had a seat reservation).

Turns out the regular 10-car (5+5) had been substituted by a 9-car.
Train manager when encountered says "sit anywhere you like". Apparently
it was very lightly loaded.

Which is probably why they got away with a single 5 last Thursday
(according to RTT).

Passenger generally very impressed with the FC seating and free snacks,
as well as the view.

Despite the very slow start (2hrs entirely in Cornwall) got to
Paddington just before we got even as far as Oxford[1] by road. Via
Stonehenge, which like most of Cornwall had been all week, was closed.
The road past it is permanently closed. Thanks a lot, English "No
looking at our" Heritage.

It was pissing down with rain, so we wouldn't have wanted to wander
freely around the monument, even if it were still possible; which it
was as recently as 25yrs ago.

[1] At the roundabout on the ring road, where once I'm sure the
signs had all of "The North/The South/The East/The West" on
them. M25 showing red, so diverted from Newbury then via Milton
Keynes, shadowing the route of East-West Rail, even all the way
to Cambourne.
--
Roland Perry

On 05/04/2023 06:19, Roland Perry wrote:
> <http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Newquay2.jpg>
>
> Passenger (not myself) reports they were initially a little concerned
> that the PIS didn't give a platform number. But on closer examination
> there is only one platform, and only one train (every 2hrs).
>
> A hop to Par, then another to Plymouth. How was the second train -
> "another grotty local one" (ahem, Castle Class).
>
> On arrival at Plymouth with a 6 minute connection, disappointed by the
> briefness not to be able to buy something for lunch.
>
> Gets on train, here we go: Carriage A - B - C - D - G - H...
>
> ...hang on, what happened to "E" (where they had a seat reservation).
>
> Turns out the regular 10-car (5+5) had been substituted by a 9-car.
> Train manager when encountered says "sit anywhere you like". Apparently
> it was very lightly loaded.
>
> Which is probably why they got away with a single 5 last Thursday
> (according to RTT).
>
> Passenger generally very impressed with the FC seating and free snacks,
> as well as the view.
>
> Despite the very slow start (2hrs entirely in Cornwall) got to
> Paddington just before we got even as far as Oxford[1] by road. Via
> Stonehenge, which like most of Cornwall had been all week, was closed.
> The road past it is permanently closed. Thanks a lot, English "No
> looking at our" Heritage

That road was closed quite a long time ago. If you were coming from the
West Country the new entrance is quite clearly signposted off the A303.

>
> It was pissing down with rain, so we wouldn't have wanted to wander
> freely around the monument, even if it were still possible; which it
> was as recently as 25yrs ago.

That was stopped back in the 1980s, so rather more than 25 years ago.
Very recently it is allowed on specific occasions but not as a general
thing.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <u0j5in$3q0hu$2@dont-email.me>, at 07:47:51 on Wed, 5 Apr
2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 05/04/2023 06:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>> <http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Newquay2.jpg>
>> Passenger (not myself) reports they were initially a little
>>concerned that the PIS didn't give a platform number. But on closer
>>examination there is only one platform, and only one train (every
>>2hrs). A hop to Par, then another to Plymouth. How was the second
>>train - "another grotty local one" (ahem, Castle Class). On arrival
>>at Plymouth with a 6 minute connection, disappointed by the briefness
>>not to be able to buy something for lunch. Gets on train, here we
>>go: Carriage A - B - C - D - G - H... ...hang on, what happened to
>>"E" (where they had a seat reservation).

>> Turns out the regular 10-car (5+5) had been substituted by a 9-car.
>> Train manager when encountered says "sit anywhere you like". Apparently
>> it was very lightly loaded.

>> Which is probably why they got away with a single 5 last Thursday
>> (according to RTT).
>> Passenger generally very impressed with the FC seating and free
>>snacks, as well as the view.

>> Despite the very slow start (2hrs entirely in Cornwall) got to
>> Paddington just before we got even as far as Oxford[1] by road. Via
>> Stonehenge, which like most of Cornwall had been all week, was closed.
>> The road past it is permanently closed. Thanks a lot, English "No
>> looking at our" Heritage
>
>That road was closed quite a long time ago. If you were coming from the
>West Country the new entrance is quite clearly signposted off the A303.

It's not an entrance, it's some form of glitzy Visitor Centre, from
which, for a fee no doubt, they bus you to the monument. The visitor
centre was closed.

>> It was pissing down with rain, so we wouldn't have wanted to wander
>> freely around the monument, even if it were still possible; which it
>> was as recently as 25yrs ago.
>
>That was stopped back in the 1980s, so rather more than 25 years ago.
>Very recently it is allowed on specific occasions but not as a general
>thing.

I have photos from around the Millenium. Which was the last time we
visited. Given that four out of the five in our group had been present
then, we thought it might be nice to show the fifth. Given that we were
driving past(fsvo) anyway.

--
Roland Perry

On 05/04/2023 08:28, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <u0j5in$3q0hu$2@dont-email.me>, at 07:47:51 on Wed, 5 Apr
> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 05/04/2023 06:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>   <http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Newquay2.jpg>
>>>  Passenger (not myself) reports they were initially a little
>>> concerned  that the PIS didn't give a platform number. But on closer
>>> examination  there is only one platform, and only one train (every
>>> 2hrs).   A hop to Par, then another to Plymouth. How was the second
>>> train -  "another grotty local one" (ahem, Castle Class).   On
>>> arrival at Plymouth with a 6 minute connection, disappointed by the
>>> briefness not to be able to buy something for lunch.   Gets on train,
>>> here we go: Carriage A - B - C - D - G - H...   ...hang on, what
>>> happened to "E" (where they had a seat reservation).
>
>>>  Turns out the regular 10-car (5+5) had been substituted by a 9-car.
>>> Train manager when encountered says "sit anywhere you like". Apparently
>>> it was very lightly loaded.
>
>>>  Which is probably why they got away with a single 5 last Thursday
>>> (according to RTT).
>>>  Passenger generally very impressed with the FC seating and free
>>> snacks,  as well as the view.
>
>>>  Despite the very slow start (2hrs entirely in Cornwall) got to
>>> Paddington just before we got even as far as Oxford[1] by road. Via
>>> Stonehenge, which like most of Cornwall had been all week, was closed.
>>> The road past it is permanently closed. Thanks a lot, English "No
>>> looking at our" Heritage
>>
>> That road was closed quite a long time ago. If you were coming from
>> the West Country the new entrance is quite clearly signposted off the
>> A303.
>
> It's not an entrance, it's some form of glitzy Visitor Centre, from
> which, for a fee no doubt, they bus you to the monument. The visitor
> centre was closed.

They have been charging for entry for more years than I can remember.
You can also walk from the visitor centre if you want.

>
>>>  It was pissing down with rain, so we wouldn't have wanted to wander
>>> freely around the monument, even if it were still possible; which it
>>> was as recently as 25yrs ago.
>>
>> That was stopped back in the 1980s, so rather more than 25 years ago.
>> Very recently it is allowed on specific occasions but not as a general
>> thing.
>
> I have photos from around the Millenium. Which was the last time we
> visited. Given that four out of the five in our group had been present
> then, we thought it might be nice to show the fifth. Given that we were
> driving past(fsvo) anyway.
>

In amongst the stones?
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <u0j8kp$3qg3i$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:40:09 on Wed, 5 Apr
2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 05/04/2023 08:28, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <u0j5in$3q0hu$2@dont-email.me>, at 07:47:51 on Wed, 5 Apr
>>2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 05/04/2023 06:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>   <http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Newquay2.jpg>
>>>>  Passenger (not myself) reports they were initially a little
>>>>concerned  that the PIS didn't give a platform number. But on closer
>>>>examination  there is only one platform, and only one train (every
>>>>2hrs).   A hop to Par, then another to Plymouth. How was the second
>>>>train -  "another grotty local one" (ahem, Castle Class).   On
>>>>arrival at Plymouth with a 6 minute connection, disappointed by the
>>>>briefness not to be able to buy something for lunch.   Gets on
>>>>train, here we go: Carriage A - B - C - D - G - H...   ...hang on,
>>>>what happened to "E" (where they had a seat reservation).
>>
>>>>  Turns out the regular 10-car (5+5) had been substituted by a
>>>>9-car.
>>>> Train manager when encountered says "sit anywhere you like". Apparently
>>>> it was very lightly loaded.
>>
>>>>  Which is probably why they got away with a single 5 last Thursday
>>>> (according to RTT).
>>>>  Passenger generally very impressed with the FC seating and free
>>>>snacks,  as well as the view.
>>
>>>>  Despite the very slow start (2hrs entirely in Cornwall) got to
>>>> Paddington just before we got even as far as Oxford[1] by road. Via
>>>> Stonehenge, which like most of Cornwall had been all week, was closed.
>>>> The road past it is permanently closed. Thanks a lot, English "No
>>>> looking at our" Heritage
>>>
>>> That road was closed quite a long time ago. If you were coming from
>>>the West Country the new entrance is quite clearly signposted off the
>>>
>> It's not an entrance, it's some form of glitzy Visitor Centre, from
>>which, for a fee no doubt, they bus you to the monument. The visitor
>>centre was closed.
>
>They have been charging for entry for more years than I can remember.
>You can also walk from the visitor centre if you want.

Someone told us it took about half an hour. And back. Not in the rain,
thanks; and the Visitor Centre was *CLOSED*.

Their website is silent about a reduced rate for walkers.

>>>>  It was pissing down with rain, so we wouldn't have wanted to
>>>>wander freely around the monument, even if it were still possible;
>>>>which it was as recently as 25yrs ago.
>>>
>>> That was stopped back in the 1980s, so rather more than 25 years
>>>ago. Very recently it is allowed on specific occasions but not as a
>>>general thing.

>> I have photos from around the Millenium. Which was the last time we
>>visited. Given that four out of the five in our group had been present
>>then, we thought it might be nice to show the fifth. Given that we
>>were driving past(fsvo) anyway.
>
>In amongst the stones?

Back then we would have driven past on the adjacent road, possibly
parked in the then-new much smaller visitor centre, and walked a
hundred yards to the stones.
--
Roland Perry

On 05/04/2023 10:18, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <u0j8kp$3qg3i$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:40:09 on Wed, 5 Apr
> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 05/04/2023 08:28, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <u0j5in$3q0hu$2@dont-email.me>, at 07:47:51 on Wed, 5 Apr
>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 05/04/2023 06:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>   <http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Newquay2.jpg>
>>>>>  Passenger (not myself) reports they were initially a little
>>>>> concerned  that the PIS didn't give a platform number. But on
>>>>> closer examination  there is only one platform, and only one train
>>>>> (every 2hrs).   A hop to Par, then another to Plymouth. How was the
>>>>> second train -  "another grotty local one" (ahem, Castle Class).
>>>>> On arrival at Plymouth with a 6 minute connection, disappointed by
>>>>> the briefness not to be able to buy something for lunch.   Gets on
>>>>> train,  here we go: Carriage A - B - C - D - G - H...   ...hang on,
>>>>> what  happened to "E" (where they had a seat reservation).
>>>
>>>>>  Turns out the regular 10-car (5+5) had been substituted by a 9-car.
>>>>> Train manager when encountered says "sit anywhere you like".
>>>>> Apparently
>>>>> it was very lightly loaded.
>>>
>>>>>  Which is probably why they got away with a single 5 last Thursday
>>>>> (according to RTT).
>>>>>  Passenger generally very impressed with the FC seating and free
>>>>> snacks,  as well as the view.
>>>
>>>>>  Despite the very slow start (2hrs entirely in Cornwall) got to
>>>>> Paddington just before we got even as far as Oxford[1] by road. Via
>>>>> Stonehenge, which like most of Cornwall had been all week, was closed.
>>>>> The road past it is permanently closed. Thanks a lot, English "No
>>>>> looking at our" Heritage
>>>>
>>>> That road was closed quite a long time ago. If you were coming from
>>>> the West Country the new entrance is quite clearly signposted off the
>>>  It's not an entrance, it's some form of glitzy Visitor Centre, from
>>> which, for a fee no doubt, they bus you to the monument. The visitor
>>> centre was closed.
>>
>> They have been charging for entry for more years than I can remember.
>> You can also walk from the visitor centre if you want.
>
> Someone told us it took about half an hour. And back. Not in the rain,
> thanks; and the Visitor Centre was *CLOSED*.
>
> Their website is silent about a reduced rate for walkers.
>
>>>>>  It was pissing down with rain, so we wouldn't have wanted to
>>>>> wander  freely around the monument, even if it were still possible;
>>>>> which it  was as recently as 25yrs ago.
>>>>
>>>> That was stopped back in the 1980s, so rather more than 25 years
>>>> ago.  Very recently it is allowed on specific occasions but not as a
>>>> general  thing.
>
>>>  I have photos from around the Millenium. Which was the last time we
>>> visited. Given that four out of the five in our group had been
>>> present then, we thought it might be nice to show the fifth. Given
>>> that we were  driving past(fsvo) anyway.
>>
>> In amongst the stones?
>
> Back then we would have driven past on the adjacent road, possibly
> parked in the then-new much smaller visitor centre, and walked a
> hundred yards to the stones.

That "new" visitor centre had been around since the 1960s I believe. My
first visit was around 1972 and it was well-established then. They
expanded it a bit in later years, adding a larger shop and better
catering (fsvo) facilities.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <u0jkc5$3s6lm$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:00:21 on Wed, 5 Apr
2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 05/04/2023 10:18, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <u0j8kp$3qg3i$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:40:09 on Wed, 5 Apr
>>2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 05/04/2023 08:28, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <u0j5in$3q0hu$2@dont-email.me>, at 07:47:51 on Wed, 5
>>>>Apr 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> On 05/04/2023 06:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>   <http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Newquay2.jpg>
>>>>>>  Passenger (not myself) reports they were initially a little
>>>>>>concerned  that the PIS didn't give a platform number. But on
>>>>>>closer examination  there is only one platform, and only one train
>>>>>>(every 2hrs).   A hop to Par, then another to Plymouth. How was
>>>>>>the second train -  "another grotty local one" (ahem, Castle
>>>>>>Class). On arrival at Plymouth with a 6 minute connection,
>>>>>>disappointed by the briefness not to be able to buy something for
>>>>>>lunch.   Gets on train,  here we go: Carriage A - B - C - D - G -
>>>>>>H...   ...hang on, what  happened to "E" (where they had a seat reservation).
>>>>
>>>>>>  Turns out the regular 10-car (5+5) had been substituted by a 9-car.
>>>>>> Train manager when encountered says "sit anywhere you like".
>>>>>>Apparently
>>>>>> it was very lightly loaded.
>>>>
>>>>>>  Which is probably why they got away with a single 5 last Thursday
>>>>>> (according to RTT).
>>>>>>  Passenger generally very impressed with the FC seating and free
>>>>>>snacks,  as well as the view.
>>>>
>>>>>>  Despite the very slow start (2hrs entirely in Cornwall) got to
>>>>>> Paddington just before we got even as far as Oxford[1] by road. Via
>>>>>> Stonehenge, which like most of Cornwall had been all week, was closed.
>>>>>> The road past it is permanently closed. Thanks a lot, English "No
>>>>>> looking at our" Heritage
>>>>>
>>>>> That road was closed quite a long time ago. If you were coming
>>>>>from the West Country the new entrance is quite clearly signposted
>>>>>
>>>>  It's not an entrance, it's some form of glitzy Visitor Centre,
>>>>from which, for a fee no doubt, they bus you to the monument. The
>>>>visitor centre was closed.
>>>
>>> They have been charging for entry for more years than I can
>>>remember. You can also walk from the visitor centre if you want.
>> Someone told us it took about half an hour. And back. Not in the
>>rain, thanks; and the Visitor Centre was *CLOSED*.
>> Their website is silent about a reduced rate for walkers.
>>
>>>>>>  It was pissing down with rain, so we wouldn't have wanted to
>>>>>>wander  freely around the monument, even if it were still
>>>>>>possible; which it  was as recently as 25yrs ago.
>>>>>
>>>>> That was stopped back in the 1980s, so rather more than 25 years
>>>>>ago.  Very recently it is allowed on specific occasions but not as
>>>>>a general  thing.
>>
>>>>  I have photos from around the Millenium. Which was the last time
>>>>we visited. Given that four out of the five in our group had been
>>>>present then, we thought it might be nice to show the fifth. Given
>>>>that we were  driving past(fsvo) anyway.
>>>
>>> In amongst the stones?

>> Back then we would have driven past on the adjacent road, possibly
>>parked in the then-new much smaller visitor centre, and walked a
>> hundred yards to the stones.
>
>That "new" visitor centre had been around since the 1960s I believe.

It was new to me when I visited it in perhaps 1989.

>My first visit was around 1972 and it was well-established then. They
>expanded it a bit in later years, adding a larger shop and better
>catering (fsvo) facilities.

I just remember the underpass to the actual site (the other side of the
main road).
--
Roland Perry

On Wed, 5 Apr 2023 14:35:34 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:

>In message <u0jkc5$3s6lm$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:00:21 on Wed, 5 Apr
>2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>On 05/04/2023 10:18, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <u0j8kp$3qg3i$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:40:09 on Wed, 5 Apr
>>>2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 05/04/2023 08:28, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <u0j5in$3q0hu$2@dont-email.me>, at 07:47:51 on Wed, 5
>>>>>Apr 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> On 05/04/2023 06:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>   <http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Newquay2.jpg>
>>>>>>>  Passenger (not myself) reports they were initially a little
>>>>>>>concerned  that the PIS didn't give a platform number. But on
>>>>>>>closer examination  there is only one platform, and only one train
>>>>>>>(every 2hrs).   A hop to Par, then another to Plymouth. How was
>>>>>>>the second train -  "another grotty local one" (ahem, Castle
>>>>>>>Class). On arrival at Plymouth with a 6 minute connection,
>>>>>>>disappointed by the briefness not to be able to buy something for
>>>>>>>lunch.   Gets on train,  here we go: Carriage A - B - C - D - G -
>>>>>>>H...   ...hang on, what  happened to "E" (where they had a seat reservation).
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Turns out the regular 10-car (5+5) had been substituted by a 9-car.
>>>>>>> Train manager when encountered says "sit anywhere you like".
>>>>>>>Apparently
>>>>>>> it was very lightly loaded.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Which is probably why they got away with a single 5 last Thursday
>>>>>>> (according to RTT).
>>>>>>>  Passenger generally very impressed with the FC seating and free
>>>>>>>snacks,  as well as the view.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Despite the very slow start (2hrs entirely in Cornwall) got to
>>>>>>> Paddington just before we got even as far as Oxford[1] by road. Via
>>>>>>> Stonehenge, which like most of Cornwall had been all week, was closed.
>>>>>>> The road past it is permanently closed. Thanks a lot, English "No
>>>>>>> looking at our" Heritage
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That road was closed quite a long time ago. If you were coming
>>>>>>from the West Country the new entrance is quite clearly signposted
>>>>>>
>>>>>  It's not an entrance, it's some form of glitzy Visitor Centre,
>>>>>from which, for a fee no doubt, they bus you to the monument. The
>>>>>visitor centre was closed.
>>>>
>>>> They have been charging for entry for more years than I can
>>>>remember. You can also walk from the visitor centre if you want.
>>> Someone told us it took about half an hour. And back. Not in the
>>>rain, thanks; and the Visitor Centre was *CLOSED*.
>>> Their website is silent about a reduced rate for walkers.
>>>
>>>>>>>  It was pissing down with rain, so we wouldn't have wanted to
>>>>>>>wander  freely around the monument, even if it were still
>>>>>>>possible; which it  was as recently as 25yrs ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That was stopped back in the 1980s, so rather more than 25 years
>>>>>>ago.  Very recently it is allowed on specific occasions but not as
>>>>>>a general  thing.
>>>
>>>>>  I have photos from around the Millenium. Which was the last time
>>>>>we visited. Given that four out of the five in our group had been
>>>>>present then, we thought it might be nice to show the fifth. Given
>>>>>that we were  driving past(fsvo) anyway.
>>>>
>>>> In amongst the stones?
>
>>> Back then we would have driven past on the adjacent road, possibly
>>>parked in the then-new much smaller visitor centre, and walked a
>>> hundred yards to the stones.
>>
>>That "new" visitor centre had been around since the 1960s I believe.
>
>It was new to me when I visited it in perhaps 1989.
>
>>My first visit was around 1972 and it was well-established then. They
>>expanded it a bit in later years, adding a larger shop and better
>>catering (fsvo) facilities.
>
>I just remember the underpass to the actual site (the other side of the
>main road).

There was a visitor centre on one side of the A360 when that was still
open and there was an underpass to the stones.

The new centre opened in 2013. I can't find a reference that tells me
when the section of the A360 past the old centre closed but it was
around the same time (but after the visitor centre was "moved").

I've only been once since the changeover, in August 2020, and I got in
"free" on my National Trust membership (English Heritage also gets you
in free). I walked there and back from the visitor centre but I don't
recall there being any signs that said you have to pay for the shuttle
buses and looking at the Heritage booking page there is no mention of
a charge for the buses. Parking is a different issue - NT and EH
members get free parking but non members might have to pay (the site
is a bit ambiguous).

As for the train, recent observation (I live near Castle Cary)
suggests that train formations can vary day by day. I suspect it's
going to get worse when the Castle HSTs go. Since the arrival of the
80xs it's not been unheard of for a 15x or 16x to sub for an 80x west
of Bristol and/or Exeter/Plymouth (haven't heard of it happening on
workings into Wales) and my gut feeling is that the frequency of subs
is slowly increasing. My guess is that the 5 car units will begin to
be used instead of HSTs on some services which will lead to Paddington
services seeing more 5 car 80x use. The fact that the "Bristol Flyer"
services have never operated will make things a little easier. I
happened upon a 5 car Bristol/London service at Bristol last week. I
also suspect the 5 car 16x services on Cardiff Portsmouth may become 3
car at times so that the 2 car element can be used elsewhere (but that
is perhaps a guess to far!).

On 05/04/2023 14:35, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <u0jkc5$3s6lm$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:00:21 on Wed, 5 Apr
> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 05/04/2023 10:18, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <u0j8kp$3qg3i$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:40:09 on Wed, 5 Apr
>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 05/04/2023 08:28, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <u0j5in$3q0hu$2@dont-email.me>, at 07:47:51 on Wed, 5
>>>>> Apr  2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> On 05/04/2023 06:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>   <http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Newquay2.jpg>
>>>>>>>  Passenger (not myself) reports they were initially a little
>>>>>>> concerned  that the PIS didn't give a platform number. But on
>>>>>>> closer examination  there is only one platform, and only one
>>>>>>> train (every 2hrs).   A hop to Par, then another to Plymouth. How
>>>>>>> was the  second train -  "another grotty local one" (ahem, Castle
>>>>>>> Class).    On arrival at Plymouth with a 6 minute connection,
>>>>>>> disappointed by  the briefness not to be able to buy something
>>>>>>> for lunch.   Gets on  train,  here we go: Carriage A - B - C - D
>>>>>>> - G - H...   ...hang on,  what  happened to "E" (where they had a
>>>>>>> seat reservation).
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Turns out the regular 10-car (5+5) had been substituted by a 9-car.
>>>>>>> Train manager when encountered says "sit anywhere you like".
>>>>>>> Apparently
>>>>>>> it was very lightly loaded.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Which is probably why they got away with a single 5 last Thursday
>>>>>>> (according to RTT).
>>>>>>>  Passenger generally very impressed with the FC seating and free
>>>>>>> snacks,  as well as the view.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Despite the very slow start (2hrs entirely in Cornwall) got to
>>>>>>> Paddington just before we got even as far as Oxford[1] by road. Via
>>>>>>> Stonehenge, which like most of Cornwall had been all week, was
>>>>>>> closed.
>>>>>>> The road past it is permanently closed. Thanks a lot, English "No
>>>>>>> looking at our" Heritage
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That road was closed quite a long time ago. If you were coming
>>>>>> from  the West Country the new entrance is quite clearly signposted
>>>>>  It's not an entrance, it's some form of glitzy Visitor Centre,
>>>>> from  which, for a fee no doubt, they bus you to the monument. The
>>>>> visitor  centre was closed.
>>>>
>>>> They have been charging for entry for more years than I can
>>>> remember.  You can also walk from the visitor centre if you want.
>>>  Someone told us it took about half an hour. And back. Not in the
>>> rain,  thanks; and the Visitor Centre was *CLOSED*.
>>>  Their website is silent about a reduced rate for walkers.
>>>
>>>>>>>  It was pissing down with rain, so we wouldn't have wanted to
>>>>>>> wander  freely around the monument, even if it were still
>>>>>>> possible;  which it  was as recently as 25yrs ago.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That was stopped back in the 1980s, so rather more than 25 years
>>>>>> ago.  Very recently it is allowed on specific occasions but not as
>>>>>> a  general  thing.
>>>
>>>>>  I have photos from around the Millenium. Which was the last time
>>>>> we  visited. Given that four out of the five in our group had been
>>>>> present then, we thought it might be nice to show the fifth. Given
>>>>> that we were  driving past(fsvo) anyway.
>>>>
>>>> In amongst the stones?
>
>>>  Back then we would have driven past on the adjacent road, possibly
>>> parked in the then-new much smaller visitor centre, and walked a
>>> hundred yards to the stones.
>>
>> That "new" visitor centre had been around since the 1960s I believe.
>
> It was new to me when I visited it in perhaps 1989.

That would probably have been after the refurbishment mentioned below,
so would have appeared new.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 05/04/2023 15:58, Graham Harrison wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Apr 2023 14:35:34 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In message <u0jkc5$3s6lm$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:00:21 on Wed, 5 Apr
>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 05/04/2023 10:18, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <u0j8kp$3qg3i$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:40:09 on Wed, 5 Apr
>>>> 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> On 05/04/2023 08:28, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <u0j5in$3q0hu$2@dont-email.me>, at 07:47:51 on Wed, 5
>>>>>> Apr 2023, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>>> On 05/04/2023 06:19, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>   <http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Newquay2.jpg>
>>>>>>>>  Passenger (not myself) reports they were initially a little
>>>>>>>> concerned  that the PIS didn't give a platform number. But on
>>>>>>>> closer examination  there is only one platform, and only one train
>>>>>>>> (every 2hrs).   A hop to Par, then another to Plymouth. How was
>>>>>>>> the second train -  "another grotty local one" (ahem, Castle
>>>>>>>> Class). On arrival at Plymouth with a 6 minute connection,
>>>>>>>> disappointed by the briefness not to be able to buy something for
>>>>>>>> lunch.   Gets on train,  here we go: Carriage A - B - C - D - G -
>>>>>>>> H...   ...hang on, what  happened to "E" (where they had a seat reservation).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Turns out the regular 10-car (5+5) had been substituted by a 9-car.
>>>>>>>> Train manager when encountered says "sit anywhere you like".
>>>>>>>> Apparently
>>>>>>>> it was very lightly loaded.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Which is probably why they got away with a single 5 last Thursday
>>>>>>>> (according to RTT).
>>>>>>>>  Passenger generally very impressed with the FC seating and free
>>>>>>>> snacks,  as well as the view.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Despite the very slow start (2hrs entirely in Cornwall) got to
>>>>>>>> Paddington just before we got even as far as Oxford[1] by road. Via
>>>>>>>> Stonehenge, which like most of Cornwall had been all week, was closed.
>>>>>>>> The road past it is permanently closed. Thanks a lot, English "No
>>>>>>>> looking at our" Heritage
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That road was closed quite a long time ago. If you were coming
>>>>>> >from the West Country the new entrance is quite clearly signposted
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>  It's not an entrance, it's some form of glitzy Visitor Centre,
>>>>> >from which, for a fee no doubt, they bus you to the monument. The
>>>>>> visitor centre was closed.
>>>>>
>>>>> They have been charging for entry for more years than I can
>>>>> remember. You can also walk from the visitor centre if you want.
>>>> Someone told us it took about half an hour. And back. Not in the
>>>> rain, thanks; and the Visitor Centre was *CLOSED*.
>>>> Their website is silent about a reduced rate for walkers.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>  It was pissing down with rain, so we wouldn't have wanted to
>>>>>>>> wander  freely around the monument, even if it were still
>>>>>>>> possible; which it  was as recently as 25yrs ago.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That was stopped back in the 1980s, so rather more than 25 years
>>>>>>> ago.  Very recently it is allowed on specific occasions but not as
>>>>>>> a general  thing.
>>>>
>>>>>>  I have photos from around the Millenium. Which was the last time
>>>>>> we visited. Given that four out of the five in our group had been
>>>>>> present then, we thought it might be nice to show the fifth. Given
>>>>>> that we were  driving past(fsvo) anyway.
>>>>>
>>>>> In amongst the stones?
>>
>>>> Back then we would have driven past on the adjacent road, possibly
>>>> parked in the then-new much smaller visitor centre, and walked a
>>>> hundred yards to the stones.
>>>
>>> That "new" visitor centre had been around since the 1960s I believe.
>>
>> It was new to me when I visited it in perhaps 1989.
>>
>>> My first visit was around 1972 and it was well-established then. They
>>> expanded it a bit in later years, adding a larger shop and better
>>> catering (fsvo) facilities.
>>
>> I just remember the underpass to the actual site (the other side of the
>> main road).
>
> There was a visitor centre on one side of the A360 when that was still
> open and there was an underpass to the stones.
>
> The new centre opened in 2013. I can't find a reference that tells me
> when the section of the A360 past the old centre closed but it was
> around the same time (but after the visitor centre was "moved").
>
> I've only been once since the changeover, in August 2020, and I got in
> "free" on my National Trust membership (English Heritage also gets you
> in free). I walked there and back from the visitor centre but I don't
> recall there being any signs that said you have to pay for the shuttle
> buses and looking at the Heritage booking page there is no mention of
> a charge for the buses. Parking is a different issue - NT and EH
> members get free parking but non members might have to pay (the site
> is a bit ambiguous).
>
> As for the train, recent observation (I live near Castle Cary)
> suggests that train formations can vary day by day. I suspect it's
> going to get worse when the Castle HSTs go. Since the arrival of the
> 80xs it's not been unheard of for a 15x or 16x to sub for an 80x west
> of Bristol and/or Exeter/Plymouth (haven't heard of it happening on
> workings into Wales) and my gut feeling is that the frequency of subs
I've seen a few reports of substitutions in south Wales and one of an
80x substitution on a Cardiff to Portsmouth as far as Bristol.
> is slowly increasing. My guess is that the 5 car units will begin to
> be used instead of HSTs on some services which will lead to Paddington
> services seeing more 5 car 80x use. The fact that the "Bristol Flyer"
> services have never operated will make things a little easier. I
> happened upon a 5 car Bristol/London service at Bristol last week. I
> also suspect the 5 car 16x services on Cardiff Portsmouth may become 3
> car at times so that the 2 car element can be used elsewhere (but that
> is perhaps a guess to far!).
5 car Cardiff - Portsmouth services are pretty well a thing of the past
and 2 car in not uncommon.

The Exmouth - Paignton services are regularly short formed as well.