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aus+uk / aus.aviation / Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine

SubjectAuthor
* Screw driver tip trashes engineSylvia Else
+* Re: Screw driver tip trashes engineDaryl
|`* Re: Screw driver tip trashes enginePhil Allison
| +* Re: Screw driver tip trashes engineDaryl
| |`* Re: Screw driver tip trashes enginePhil Allison
| | `* Re: Screw driver tip trashes engineDaryl
| |  `* Re: Screw driver tip trashes enginePhil Allison
| |   `- Re: Screw driver tip trashes engineDaryl
| `* Re: Screw driver tip trashes enginekeithr0
|  `- Re: Screw driver tip trashes enginePhil Allison
`* Re: Screw driver tip trashes engineDavid Lesher
 `* Re: Screw driver tip trashes engineDaryl
  +* Re: Screw driver tip trashes enginePhil Allison
  |`* Re: Screw driver tip trashes engineJames Last plays in Miami
  | `* Re: Screw driver tip trashes enginePhil Allison
  |  `* Re: Screw driver tip trashes engineJames Last plays in Miami
  |   `* Re: Screw driver tip trashes enginePhil Allison
  |    `- Re: Screw driver tip trashes engineJames Last plays in Miami
  `* Re: Screw driver tip trashes engineF Murtz
   +* Re: Screw driver tip trashes enginePhil Allison
   |`- Re: Screw driver tip trashes enginePhil Allison
   `- Re: Screw driver tip trashes engineDaryl

1
Screw driver tip trashes engine

<inu911F6m6qU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: syl...@email.invalid (Sylvia Else)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Screw driver tip trashes engine
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2021 14:48:32 +1000
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 by: Sylvia Else - Mon, 16 Aug 2021 04:48 UTC

https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/5780057/ao-2020-058-final.pdf

Probably impossible now to identity the person who failed to check their
tools. That person may nevertheless know who they are, and be thankful
they won't be sent a bill for the engine [*].

Sylvia.

[*] Not legally possible if it was an employee.

Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine

<inu9liF6qq3U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2021 14:59:28 +1000
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 by: Daryl - Mon, 16 Aug 2021 04:59 UTC

On 16/8/21 2:48 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
> https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/5780057/ao-2020-058-final.pdf
>
> Probably impossible now to identity the person who failed to check their
> tools. That person may nevertheless know who they are, and be thankful
> they won't be sent a bill for the engine [*].
>
> Sylvia.
>
> [*] Not legally possible if it was an employee.

Whoops.
Employee might not have to pay to repair/replace the engine but I
suspect that they might need to look for a new job.

--
Daryl

Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine

<32c8d1cc-a1ac-4571-a53c-5013b0789b42n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Mon, 16 Aug 2021 07:44 UTC

Daryl wrote:
=============
>
> Employee might not have to pay to repair/replace the engine but I
> suspect that they might need to look for a new job.
>

** IME 1/4 inch hex bits easily fall out of most battery powered screwdrivers and the like.
So it would be wise to make sure only tools where the bit was mechanically held in place ( ie not by a magnet) were used for critical jobs around jet engines.

Anecdote:

World water speed record holder, an Aussie named Ken Warby, once had a run in with a wayward screwdriver:

The RAAF had supplied him with a jet engine for his record attempts at Blowering Dam in 1977.
The engine had come from a Grumman Tracker and had been refurbished by a group of apprentices especially for Ken.
While fitting and testing the engine, a screwdriver was left near the intake and got sucked in - ruining the engine.
So it went back to the RAAF workshops for another re-build by the same apprentices.

When re-fitted months later and working perfectly, Ken found he could still not break the existing record - not quite enough thrust.

Meanwhile, one of the small group of spectators had an idea:
He approached the boat's team and suggested cutting about half the rudder away for their next run - cos it was too long.
He explained that calculations he had done with his *slide rule* indicated there was about 500lbs of excess drag at the speeds needed to break the record.

Though highly sceptical at first, when he revealed he was a retired marine engineer they took him more seriously.
So with nothing else left to try, they hacked a big chunk off the thing and had another run the next morning.

Ken's boat " Spirit of Australia" immediately took a big chunk off the record - setting a new one that still stands today.
Story goes that afterwards, that engineer found it impossible to buy his own drinks if any of the team were around.

..... Phil

Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine

<inulmtF96koU2@mid.individual.net>

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2021 18:25:01 +1000
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 by: Daryl - Mon, 16 Aug 2021 08:25 UTC

On 16/8/21 5:44 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
> Daryl wrote:
> =============
>>
>> Employee might not have to pay to repair/replace the engine but I
>> suspect that they might need to look for a new job.
>>
>
> ** IME 1/4 inch hex bits easily fall out of most battery powered screwdrivers and the like.
> So it would be wise to make sure only tools where the bit was mechanically held in place ( ie not by a magnet) were used for critical jobs around jet engines.

I've not worked on aircraft but AFAIK the engineers are supposed to
account for all their tools at the end of each job, if they did that
then it wouldn't matter what the tool was.

--
Daryl

Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine

<bf36d65c-1ba1-4fed-9587-f30f82e0a8ffn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
Injection-Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2021 09:45:46 +0000
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 by: Phil Allison - Mon, 16 Aug 2021 09:45 UTC

Daryl the Congenital Dope wrote:
-------------------------------------------------
> >
> > ** IME 1/4 inch hex bits easily fall out of most battery powered screwdrivers and the like.
> > So it would be wise to make sure only tools where the bit was mechanically held in place
> ( ie not by a magnet) were used for critical jobs around jet engines.
>
> I've not worked on aircraft but AFAIK the engineers are supposed to
> account for all their tools at the end of each job, if they did that
> then it wouldn't matter what the tool was.

------------------------------------------------

** FFFS you ridiculous, bloody imbecile !!!!

It *eliminates* the fucking problem of dropped bits getting INTO an engine .

Could take hours or days to get the damn things out from the bowels of a jet turbine !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

....... Phil

Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine

<inur9oFab36U1@mid.individual.net>

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2021 20:00:22 +1000
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 by: Daryl - Mon, 16 Aug 2021 10:00 UTC

On 16/8/21 7:45 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
> Daryl the Congenital Dope wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> ** IME 1/4 inch hex bits easily fall out of most battery powered screwdrivers and the like.
>>> So it would be wise to make sure only tools where the bit was mechanically held in place
>> ( ie not by a magnet) were used for critical jobs around jet engines.
>>
>> I've not worked on aircraft but AFAIK the engineers are supposed to
>> account for all their tools at the end of each job, if they did that
>> then it wouldn't matter what the tool was.
>
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> ** FFFS you ridiculous, bloody imbecile !!!!
>
> It *eliminates* the fucking problem of dropped bits getting INTO an engine .

ROFTL.
Spoken like a dickhead that wouldn't even know which end of a screw
driver to pick up.
Hint, it doesn't matter what type of tool it is, its supposed to be
accounted for, if a "bit" is fixed and can't be dropped then someone
could just as easily leave something else behind.

>
> Could take hours or days to get the damn things out from the bowels of a jet turbine !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>

How would you know dumb arse, have you even seen inside a "jet turbine".

--
Daryl

Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine

<7ad76d83-8bcb-467b-b183-cded93b6807fn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Mon, 16 Aug 2021 10:38 UTC

Daryl Has Gone 100% INSANE
========================
>>
>>> ** IME 1/4 inch hex bits easily fall out of most battery powered screwdrivers and the like.
> >>> So it would be wise to make sure only tools where the bit was mechanically held in place
> >> ( ie not by a magnet) were used for critical jobs around jet engines.
> >>
> >> I've not worked on aircraft but AFAIK the engineers are supposed to
> >> account for all their tools at the end of each job, if they did that
> >> then it wouldn't matter what the tool was.
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------
> >
> > ** FFFS you ridiculous, bloody imbecile !!!!
> >
> > It *eliminates* the fucking problem of dropped bits getting INTO an engine .
>
> ROFTL.

** Get fucked you vile arsehole.

> Spoken like a dickhead that wouldn't even know which end of a screw
> driver to pick up.

** You need a giant one shoved up you stinking arse !

> Hint, it doesn't matter what type of tool it is, its supposed to be
> accounted for, if a "bit" is fixed and can't be dropped then someone
> could just as easily leave something else behind.

** What a DESPERATE INSANE * LIE * !!!!!

I require an immediate apology from YOU.

Or find out what I can do.

...... Phil

Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine

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From: use...@account.invalid (keithr0)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2021 20:51:42 +1000
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 by: keithr0 - Mon, 16 Aug 2021 10:51 UTC

On 16/08/2021 5:44 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
> Daryl wrote:
> =============
>>
>> Employee might not have to pay to repair/replace the engine but I
>> suspect that they might need to look for a new job.
>>
>
> ** IME 1/4 inch hex bits easily fall out of most battery powered screwdrivers and the like.
> So it would be wise to make sure only tools where the bit was mechanically held in place ( ie not by a magnet) were used for critical jobs around jet engines.
>
> Anecdote:
>
> World water speed record holder, an Aussie named Ken Warby, once had a run in with a wayward screwdriver:
>
> The RAAF had supplied him with a jet engine for his record attempts at Blowering Dam in 1977.
> The engine had come from a Grumman Tracker and had been refurbished by a group of apprentices especially for Ken.
> While fitting and testing the engine, a screwdriver was left near the intake and got sucked in - ruining the engine.
> So it went back to the RAAF workshops for another re-build by the same apprentices.

The engine came from a Lockheed Neptune, Trackers never had jets.

> When re-fitted months later and working perfectly, Ken found he could still not break the existing record - not quite enough thrust.
>
> Meanwhile, one of the small group of spectators had an idea:
> He approached the boat's team and suggested cutting about half the rudder away for their next run - cos it was too long.
> He explained that calculations he had done with his *slide rule* indicated there was about 500lbs of excess drag at the speeds needed to break the record.
>
> Though highly sceptical at first, when he revealed he was a retired marine engineer they took him more seriously.
> So with nothing else left to try, they hacked a big chunk off the thing and had another run the next morning.
>
> Ken's boat " Spirit of Australia" immediately took a big chunk off the record - setting a new one that still stands today.
> Story goes that afterwards, that engineer found it impossible to buy his own drinks if any of the team were around.
>
>
> .... Phil
>

Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2021 23:05:04 +1000
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 by: Daryl - Mon, 16 Aug 2021 13:05 UTC

On 16/8/21 8:38 pm, Phil Allison wrote:
> Daryl Has Gone 100% INSANE
> ========================
>>>
> >>> ** IME 1/4 inch hex bits easily fall out of most battery powered screwdrivers and the like.
>>>>> So it would be wise to make sure only tools where the bit was mechanically held in place
>>>> ( ie not by a magnet) were used for critical jobs around jet engines.
>>>>
>>>> I've not worked on aircraft but AFAIK the engineers are supposed to
>>>> account for all their tools at the end of each job, if they did that
>>>> then it wouldn't matter what the tool was.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> ** FFFS you ridiculous, bloody imbecile !!!!
>>>
>>> It *eliminates* the fucking problem of dropped bits getting INTO an engine .
>>
>> ROFTL.
>
> ** Get fucked you vile arsehole.
>
>> Spoken like a dickhead that wouldn't even know which end of a screw
>> driver to pick up.
>
> ** You need a giant one shoved up you stinking arse !
>
>> Hint, it doesn't matter what type of tool it is, its supposed to be
>> accounted for, if a "bit" is fixed and can't be dropped then someone
>> could just as easily leave something else behind.
>
>
> ** What a DESPERATE INSANE * LIE * !!!!!
>
> I require an immediate apology from YOU.
>
> Or find out what I can do.
>

LOL.

--
Daryl

Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine

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From: wb8...@panix.com (David Lesher)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine
Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2021 16:04:25 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: NRK Clinic for habitual NetNews Abusers - Beltway Annex
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 by: David Lesher - Mon, 16 Aug 2021 16:04 UTC

Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> writes:

>https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/5780057/ao-2020-058-final.pdf

>Probably impossible now to identity the person who failed to check their
>tools. That person may nevertheless know who they are, and be thankful
>they won't be sent a bill for the engine [*].

They mention a Torq-set screw head. That's something I've not
seen outside of here.

In the automotive & home construction world, we have many TorX
screws of late since GM embraced them. They are also widely
used for drywall & deck screws (Not sure if you use other
terms for these cases.) and home construction.
--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close..........................
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine
Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2021 09:19:16 +1000
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 by: Daryl - Mon, 16 Aug 2021 23:19 UTC

On 17/8/21 2:04 am, David Lesher wrote:
> Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> writes:
>
>> https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/5780057/ao-2020-058-final.pdf
>
>> Probably impossible now to identity the person who failed to check their
>> tools. That person may nevertheless know who they are, and be thankful
>> they won't be sent a bill for the engine [*].
>
> They mention a Torq-set screw head. That's something I've not
> seen outside of here.
>
> In the automotive & home construction world, we have many TorX
> screws of late since GM embraced them. They are also widely
> used for drywall & deck screws (Not sure if you use other
> terms for these cases.) and home construction.
>

Torx was invented in 1967 so its been around for quite a while.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx
I first saw Torx screws on a Ford tractor cabin door handle in 1982,
they were "security screws" with the pin in the middle and the tool bits
were difficult to get back then.
Now Torx tools are common, most Euro cars have been using Torx fasteners
for a long time, I have a 2002 Mercedes and many fasteners are Torx or
even E Torx sockets.

--
Daryl

Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine

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Subject: Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Tue, 17 Aug 2021 00:51 UTC

keithr0 wrote:

> The engine came from a Lockheed Neptune,

** Correct - should have looked it up.

Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine

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Subject: Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Tue, 17 Aug 2021 00:54 UTC

Daryl the Dopehead Moron bullshitted:

>
> Torx was invented in 1967 so its been around for quite a while.

** Fuck of you insane shithead.

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Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine
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 by: James Last plays in - Tue, 17 Aug 2021 01:34 UTC

On Mon, 16 Aug 2021 17:54:50 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison posted:-

> > Torx was invented in 1967 so its been around for quite a while.
>
>
> ** Fuck of you insane shithead.

Had a bowel movement today, Phil?

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Subject: Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Tue, 17 Aug 2021 01:52 UTC

spam@nospam.com James Last plays in Miami wrote:
=============================================
>
> > > Torx was invented in 1967 so its been around for quite a while.
> >
> >
> > ** Fuck of you insane shithead.
>
> Had a bowel movement today, Phil?

** Thankyou for you sincere concern.

Now, try reading the whole thread and see how dumb you are being.

...... Phil

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 by: James Last plays in - Tue, 17 Aug 2021 02:19 UTC

On Mon, 16 Aug 2021 18:52:55 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison posted:-

> Now, try reading the whole thread and see how dumb you are being.

Rather read you Phil, much more amusing.

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Subject: Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Tue, 17 Aug 2021 11:36 UTC

spam@nospam.com James Last plays in Miami wrote:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Phil Allison posted:-
>
> > Now, try reading the whole thread and see how dumb you are being.
>
> Rather read you Phil, much more amusing.
>

** You just used up you last chance of benefiting from " the benefit of the doubt".

No doubt left - all gone.
Total troll - 100% fucking asshole

Idiotic handle = idiot poster .

...... Phil

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 by: James Last plays in - Tue, 17 Aug 2021 20:33 UTC

On Tue, 17 Aug 2021 04:36:17 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison posted:-

> spam@nospam.com James Last plays in Miami wrote:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Phil Allison posted:-
> >
> > > Now, try reading the whole thread and see how dumb you are being.
> > >
> >
> > Rather read you Phil, much more amusing.
> >
>
> ** You just used up you last chance of benefiting from " the benefit
> of the doubt".
>
> No doubt left - all gone.
> Total troll - 100% fucking asshole
>
> Idiotic handle = idiot poster .
>
>
> ..... Phil
>
>

Keep your bowls open Phil, you will fell heaps better! LOL
>
>
>
>

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 by: F Murtz - Sun, 22 Aug 2021 06:23 UTC

On 17/8/21 9:19 am, Daryl wrote:
> On 17/8/21 2:04 am, David Lesher wrote:
>> Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> writes:
>>
>>> https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/5780057/ao-2020-058-final.pdf
>>
>>> Probably impossible now to identity the person who failed to check their
>>> tools. That person may nevertheless know who they are, and be thankful
>>> they won't be sent a bill for the engine [*].
>>
>> They mention a Torq-set screw head. That's something I've not
>> seen outside of here.
>>
>> In the automotive & home construction world, we have many TorX
>> screws of late since GM embraced them.  They are also widely
>> used for drywall & deck screws (Not sure if you use other
>> terms for these cases.) and home construction.
>>
>
> Torx was invented in 1967 so its been around for quite a while.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx
> I first saw Torx screws on a Ford tractor cabin door handle in 1982,
> they were "security screws" with the pin in the middle and the tool bits
> were difficult to get back then.

wast of time,the pin is so trivial to break off, just takes a sideways tap.

> Now Torx tools are common, most Euro cars have been using Torx fasteners
> for a long time, I have a 2002 Mercedes and many fasteners are Torx or
> even E Torx sockets.
>

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Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2021 23:48:39 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Sun, 22 Aug 2021 06:48 UTC

F Murtz wrote:
============
>
> > Torx was invented in 1967 so its been around for quite a while.
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx
> > I first saw Torx screws on a Ford tractor cabin door handle in 1982,
> > they were "security screws" with the pin in the middle and the tool bits
> > were difficult to get back then.
>
> wast of time,the pin is so trivial to break off, just takes a sideways tap.

** Ha, ha - that is good to know.
With appliances, I have seen them buried down a deep hole making your idea difficult.
There not for security - but a safety rule in some countries.

Anyhow, I have a set of Torx, Hex & Snakeye security bits bought from DSE in Ashfield just before they closed.
Paid $5 instead of $16.

...... Phil

Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine

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From: dwalf...@westpine.com.au (Daryl)
Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Subject: Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine
Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2021 19:12:46 +1000
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 by: Daryl - Sun, 22 Aug 2021 09:12 UTC

On 22/8/21 4:23 pm, F Murtz wrote:
> On 17/8/21 9:19 am, Daryl wrote:
>> On 17/8/21 2:04 am, David Lesher wrote:
>>> Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> writes:
>>>
>>>> https://www.atsb.gov.au/media/5780057/ao-2020-058-final.pdf
>>>
>>>> Probably impossible now to identity the person who failed to check
>>>> their
>>>> tools. That person may nevertheless know who they are, and be thankful
>>>> they won't be sent a bill for the engine [*].
>>>
>>> They mention a Torq-set screw head. That's something I've not
>>> seen outside of here.
>>>
>>> In the automotive & home construction world, we have many TorX
>>> screws of late since GM embraced them.  They are also widely
>>> used for drywall & deck screws (Not sure if you use other
>>> terms for these cases.) and home construction.
>>>
>>
>> Torx was invented in 1967 so its been around for quite a while.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torx
>> I first saw Torx screws on a Ford tractor cabin door handle in 1982,
>> they were "security screws" with the pin in the middle and the tool
>> bits were difficult to get back then.
>
>
> wast of time,the pin is so trivial to break off, just takes a sideways tap.
>

Even if you broke off the pin you would still need a Torx bit and they
were rare in Australia in 1982, I vaguely remember we had to get the
Torx bits from the US, couldn't find them anywhere in Australia.

--
Daryl

Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine

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Newsgroups: aus.aviation
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2021 16:36:36 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: Screw driver tip trashes engine
From: palliso...@gmail.com (Phil Allison)
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 by: Phil Allison - Mon, 30 Aug 2021 23:36 UTC

Phil Allison wrote:
==============
> F Murtz wrote:
>
> > > I first saw Torx screws on a Ford tractor cabin door handle in 1982,
> > > they were "security screws" with the pin in the middle and the tool bits
> > > were difficult to get back then.
> >
> > wast of time,the pin is so trivial to break off, just takes a sideways tap.
>
> ** Ha, ha - that is good to know.

** Shame is to not true.

Had to deal with a Torx security head screw yesterday.
No way was it possible to break the pin off.

Lucky I has those DSE bits on hand.

..... Phil

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