Rocksolid Light

Welcome to novaBBS (click a section below)

mail  files  register  newsreader  groups  login

Message-ID:  

Experience is the worst teacher. It always gives the test first and the instruction afterward.


aus+uk / aus.computers / Re: Petrol cars ban

SubjectAuthor
* Re: Petrol cars banYosemite Sam
+* Re: Petrol cars banTrevor Wilson
|+* Re: Petrol cars banYosemite Sam
||+- Re: Petrol cars banNews 2021
||+* Re: Petrol cars banXeno
|||+* Re: Petrol cars banYosemite Sam
||||+- Re: Petrol cars banXeno
||||`- Re: Petrol cars banRod Speed
|||`* Re: Petrol cars banRod Speed
||| `* Re: Petrol cars banXeno
|||  `* Re: Petrol cars banRod Speed
|||   `* Re: Petrol cars banXeno
|||    `- Re: Petrol cars banRod Speed
||`* Re: Petrol cars banTrevor Wilson
|| +* Re: Petrol cars banRod Speed
|| |`* Re: Petrol cars banXeno
|| | `* Re: Petrol cars banRod Speed
|| |  `* Re: Petrol cars banXeno
|| |   `- Re: Petrol cars banRod Speed
|| `- Re: Petrol cars banYosemite Sam
|`* Re: Petrol cars banRod Speed
| `* Re: Petrol cars banTrevor Wilson
|  `- Re: Petrol cars banRod Speed
+* Re: Petrol cars banTrevor Wilson
|+- Re: Petrol cars banYosemite Sam
|+- Re: Petrol cars banNews 2021
|+* Re: Petrol cars banComputer Nerd Kev
||`* Re: Petrol cars banTrevor Wilson
|| `* Re: Petrol cars banComputer Nerd Kev
||  `- Re: Petrol cars banTrevor Wilson
|`* Re: Petrol cars banRod Speed
| +* Re: Petrol cars bankeithr0
| |`- Re: Petrol cars banRod Speed
| `* Re: Petrol cars banTrevor Wilson
|  +* Re: Petrol cars banRod Speed
|  |+* Re: Petrol cars banTrevor Wilson
|  ||`- Re: Petrol cars banRod Speed
|  |`* Re: Petrol cars banXeno
|  | `* Re: Petrol cars banRod Speed
|  |  `* Re: Petrol cars banXeno
|  |   `- Re: Petrol cars banRod Speed
|  +- Re: Petrol cars banNews 2021
|  `* Re: Petrol cars banXeno
|   `* Re: Petrol cars banRod Speed
|    `* Re: Petrol cars banXeno
|     `- Re: Petrol cars banRod Speed
+* Re: Petrol cars banNews 2021
|`- Re: Petrol cars banRod Speed
+* Re: Petrol cars banXeno
|+- Re: Petrol cars banRod Speed
|`* Re: Petrol cars banYosemite Sam
| +* Re: Petrol cars banNews 2021
| |`* Re: Petrol cars banXeno
| | `* Re: Petrol cars banYosemite Sam
| |  `* Re: Petrol cars banNews 2021
| |   `* Re: Petrol cars banClocky
| |    `- Re: Petrol cars banRod Speed
| `* Re: Petrol cars banXeno
|  `- Re: Petrol cars banRod Speed
+* Re: Petrol cars banRod Speed
|`* Re: Petrol cars banYosemite Sam
| `- Re: Petrol cars banRod Speed
`- Re: Petrol cars banXeno

Pages:123
Re: Petrol cars ban

<id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=599&group=aus.computers#599

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!lilly.ping.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: fel...@not_here.net (Yosemite Sam)
Newsgroups: aus.cars,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Petrol cars ban
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 09:28:54 +1000
Lines: 53
Message-ID: <id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <id6uk4F76roU1@mid.individual.net> <s4liu2$cjb$1@dont-email.me>
<id9984Fl4mjU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net 8TSv/mdgR1sg9wc47ad6cwiZ8bPU/4tQ3m9SwVfbj/r1jJ4wUK
Cancel-Lock: sha1:tjsUJEaeYV3MdYDSXACUbHW6Km8=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/60.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.7
In-Reply-To: <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me>
 by: Yosemite Sam - Thu, 8 Apr 2021 23:28 UTC

Noddy wrote:
> On 9/04/2021 7:00 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 8/04/2021 10:32 am, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> If 2030 comes around and the world *isn't* ready to replace new
>>> petrol or diesel powered cars with Electric ones it's not like
>>> anyone is going to be executed :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> **Of course. However, by 2030, buying a petrol car will be pretty
>> much restricted to second hand cars.
>
> Rubbish.
>
>> Don't forget: Australia doesn't have a car industry. So, despite the
>> desperate desires of COALition politicians to keep burning as much
>> fossil fuel as possible, new cars, after 2030 will mostly be
>> electric, PHEV or hybrid types.
>
> More rubbish.
>
>> So, legally binding, is not the issue. Availability will be.
>
> That's what I said in another post. However the difference between you
> and me is that you seem to believe that the bulk of the world's
> vehicle manufacturers will have completely switched over from ICE
> powered vehicles to EV's, and I think that's a laughable idea.
>
> A bit over 9 years simply isn't enough time for the technology to be
> perfected to the point where EV's are a viable alternative, or the
> infrastructure be put in place to accommodate them. 20 years perhaps,
> but not 9.
>
>

As I posted previously, the legislation is about VEHICLES not just cars.
So will we see electric 'road train' trucks or b-doubles, etc., within 9
years? I don't think so! so obviously the legislation is just stupid.
the need for the power and range of petrol powered vehicles will still
exist in 2030.

This discussion reminds me of what 'experts' were predicting in the late
1980's early 90's about the computer industry. They claimed that by the
year 2000 we would be talking to our computers and they would be talking
back. yet here we are in 2021 still typing on keyboards.

--
"A mans got to know his limitations"
-Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry

Re: Petrol cars ban

<id9irnFmsdnU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=600&group=aus.computers#600

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!4.us.feeder.erje.net!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: tre...@rageaudio.com.au (Trevor Wilson)
Newsgroups: aus.cars,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Petrol cars ban
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 09:44:53 +1000
Lines: 82
Message-ID: <id9irnFmsdnU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <id6uk4F76roU1@mid.individual.net> <s4liu2$cjb$1@dont-email.me>
<id9984Fl4mjU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me>
<id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net pEE/3Yjp/gw+YJ4Ok5Md1wb6Xcj248mjV64Jj0IsFyhWgHL6fC
Cancel-Lock: sha1:zj37E4+2mqwE5hAddo5NmwT4i9U=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/78.9.0
In-Reply-To: <id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net>
Content-Language: en-US
X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 210408-4, 08/04/2021), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
 by: Trevor Wilson - Thu, 8 Apr 2021 23:44 UTC

On 9/04/2021 9:28 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> Noddy wrote:
>> On 9/04/2021 7:00 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 8/04/2021 10:32 am, Noddy wrote:
>>
>>>> If 2030 comes around and the world *isn't* ready to replace new
>>>> petrol or diesel powered cars with Electric ones it's not like
>>>> anyone is going to be executed :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> **Of course. However, by 2030, buying a petrol car will be pretty
>>> much restricted to second hand cars.
>>
>> Rubbish.
>>
>>> Don't forget: Australia doesn't have a car industry. So, despite the
>>> desperate desires of COALition politicians to keep burning as much
>>> fossil fuel as possible, new cars, after 2030 will mostly be
>>> electric, PHEV or hybrid types.
>>
>> More rubbish.
>>
>>> So, legally binding, is not the issue. Availability will be.
>>
>> That's what I said in another post. However the difference between you
>> and me is that you seem to believe that the bulk of the world's
>> vehicle manufacturers will have completely switched over from ICE
>> powered vehicles to EV's, and I think that's a laughable idea.
>>
>> A bit over 9 years simply isn't enough time for the technology to be
>> perfected to the point where EV's are a viable alternative, or the
>> infrastructure be put in place to accommodate them. 20 years perhaps,
>> but not 9.
>>
>>
>
> As I posted previously, the legislation is about VEHICLES not just cars.
> So will we see electric 'road train' trucks or b-doubles, etc., within 9
> years? I don't think so! so obviously the legislation is just stupid.
> the need for the power and range of petrol powered vehicles will still
> exist in 2030.

**No. Diesel trucks, farm equipment and others will still be around for
a long time. Mostly because they are very expensive and tend to last a
long time. Petrol, however, is dead. As are ICE passenger vehicles.
Well, by 2030, anyway. The only available new cars will be EV, PHEV or
hybrid.

>
> This discussion reminds me of what 'experts' were predicting in the late
> 1980's early 90's about the computer industry. They claimed that by the
> year 2000 we would be talking to our computers and they would be talking
> back. yet here we are in 2021 still typing on keyboards.

**I was using speech control and speech to text back in the mid-1990s.
It worked OK. Keyboard is about as fast though. I was using a text to
voice system back in the late 1980s. Hell, I regularly use voice control
on my 'phone and have done for a number of years. If I need to take
notes, I just open the app, speak and save as text. My best recollection
is that my old Sammy phone did that more than 10 years ago.

As for talking to a computer, are you living on another planet? Are you
aware of Google and their sub-$100.00 box that sits in your home and
answers questions?

You really need to get out more.

Fundamentally, I would ask you this question:

Let's say you have some money to invest and are restricted to vehicle
refuelling systems. Would you invest your money into a petrol (not
Diesel) station or an EV station?

I know where I'd put my money.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: Petrol cars ban

<id9k2rFn30lU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=601&group=aus.computers#601

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!4.us.feeder.erje.net!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: tre...@rageaudio.com.au (Trevor Wilson)
Newsgroups: aus.cars,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Petrol cars ban
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 10:05:44 +1000
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <id9k2rFn30lU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <id6uk4F76roU1@mid.individual.net> <s4liu2$cjb$1@dont-email.me>
<id9984Fl4mjU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me>
<id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net Jgv3v94DV1CXAa61cEotsATyBBUu+I6pJPJztOj/2fRro5dtzB
Cancel-Lock: sha1:kYKEKxkoKmTZm4eDb+6/Jo57k/M=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/78.9.0
In-Reply-To: <id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net>
Content-Language: en-US
X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 210408-4, 08/04/2021), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
 by: Trevor Wilson - Fri, 9 Apr 2021 00:05 UTC

On 9/04/2021 9:28 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:

>
> As I posted previously, the legislation is about VEHICLES not just cars.
> So will we see electric 'road train' trucks or b-doubles, etc., within 9
> years? I don't think so! so obviously the legislation is just stupid.
> the need for the power and range of petrol powered vehicles will still
> exist in 2030.

**Oh, and one more thing: The range of EVs is increasing incrementally.
In 9 years, several things will have occurred:

* Li-Ion batteries will improve by small increments over the next few
years. Costs will fall substantially.
* As fewer petrol cars are produced, their prices will rise.
* Aluminium-Ion batteries are close to reality. They offer significant
improvements in cost (aluminium is MUCH cheaper than Lithium), range
(power density is double that of Li-Ion batteries), longevity and safety
(you can drill a hole in an Al-Ion battery without risk).

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: Petrol cars ban

<id9l91FnahoU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=602&group=aus.computers#602

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!lilly.ping.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: fel...@not_here.net (Yosemite Sam)
Newsgroups: aus.cars,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Petrol cars ban
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 10:27:21 +1000
Lines: 104
Message-ID: <id9l91FnahoU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <id6uk4F76roU1@mid.individual.net> <s4liu2$cjb$1@dont-email.me>
<id9984Fl4mjU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me>
<id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net> <id9irnFmsdnU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net YH6Awjdu8hQM8laSYlLdRA80eYawtuf19oNNT/gyb3sRwfk1LA
Cancel-Lock: sha1:VMgA37rwMdm9MKX6Bv5ktIVGajs=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/60.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.7
In-Reply-To: <id9irnFmsdnU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Yosemite Sam - Fri, 9 Apr 2021 00:27 UTC

Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 9/04/2021 9:28 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> Noddy wrote:
>>> On 9/04/2021 7:00 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 8/04/2021 10:32 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>
>>>>> If 2030 comes around and the world *isn't* ready to replace new
>>>>> petrol or diesel powered cars with Electric ones it's not like
>>>>> anyone is going to be executed :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> **Of course. However, by 2030, buying a petrol car will be pretty
>>>> much restricted to second hand cars.
>>>
>>> Rubbish.
>>>
>>>> Don't forget: Australia doesn't have a car industry. So, despite
>>>> the desperate desires of COALition politicians to keep burning as
>>>> much fossil fuel as possible, new cars, after 2030 will mostly be
>>>> electric, PHEV or hybrid types.
>>>
>>> More rubbish.
>>>
>>>> So, legally binding, is not the issue. Availability will be.
>>>
>>> That's what I said in another post. However the difference between
>>> you and me is that you seem to believe that the bulk of the world's
>>> vehicle manufacturers will have completely switched over from ICE
>>> powered vehicles to EV's, and I think that's a laughable idea.
>>>
>>> A bit over 9 years simply isn't enough time for the technology to be
>>> perfected to the point where EV's are a viable alternative, or the
>>> infrastructure be put in place to accommodate them. 20 years
>>> perhaps, but not 9.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> As I posted previously, the legislation is about VEHICLES not just
>> cars. So will we see electric 'road train' trucks or b-doubles, etc.,
>> within 9 years? I don't think so! so obviously the legislation is
>> just stupid. the need for the power and range of petrol powered
>> vehicles will still exist in 2030.
>
> **No. Diesel trucks, farm equipment and others will still be around
> for a long time. Mostly because they are very expensive and tend to
> last a long time. Petrol, however, is dead.

you've missed the point; which was/is that there won't be electric
versions of such vehicles by 2030 able to rival the power and
performance of the current ICE versions, but the legislation is assuming
there will be.

> As are ICE passenger vehicles. Well, by 2030, anyway. The only
> available new cars will be EV, PHEV or hybrid.
>
>>
>> This discussion reminds me of what 'experts' were predicting in the
>> late 1980's early 90's about the computer industry. They claimed that
>> by the year 2000 we would be talking to our computers and they would
>> be talking back. yet here we are in 2021 still typing on keyboards.
>
> **I was using speech control and speech to text back in the mid-1990s.
> It worked OK. Keyboard is about as fast though. I was using a text to
> voice system back in the late 1980s. Hell, I regularly use voice
> control on my 'phone and have done for a number of years. If I need to
> take notes, I just open the app, speak and save as text. My best
> recollection is that my old Sammy phone did that more than 10 years ago.

that's irrelevant to what the 'experts' were predicting would be the
norm by y2k for the general population, business, etc.,

>
> As for talking to a computer, are you living on another planet?

not but u might be

> Are you aware of Google and their sub-$100.00 box that sits in your
> home and answers questions?

of course. but my post was not about current technology. what I said
remains true. the experts predicted the keyboard would have gone the way
of the dinosaur by y2000 and it hasn't. they were wrong.

>
> You really need to get out more.
>
> Fundamentally, I would ask you this question:
>
> Let's say you have some money to invest and are restricted to vehicle
> refuelling systems. Would you invest your money into a petrol (not
> Diesel) station or an EV station?
>
> I know where I'd put my money.
>

whatever i would do is irrelevant to the issue

--
"A mans got to know his limitations"
-Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry

Re: Petrol cars ban

<id9lenFnbecU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=603&group=aus.computers#603

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!4.us.feeder.erje.net!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: fel...@not_here.net (Yosemite Sam)
Newsgroups: aus.cars,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Petrol cars ban
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 10:30:23 +1000
Lines: 29
Message-ID: <id9lenFnbecU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <id6uk4F76roU1@mid.individual.net> <s4liu2$cjb$1@dont-email.me>
<id9984Fl4mjU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me>
<id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net> <id9k2rFn30lU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net YT8YtLZABwrSoGV8GLQ5MAzkT0EpQvDPUF78D/1C3uZSICvJGZ
Cancel-Lock: sha1:eyupmLqhsZ0ikrEoxvhqm/Hm8bc=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/60.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.7
In-Reply-To: <id9k2rFn30lU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Yosemite Sam - Fri, 9 Apr 2021 00:30 UTC

Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 9/04/2021 9:28 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>
>>
>> As I posted previously, the legislation is about VEHICLES not just
>> cars. So will we see electric 'road train' trucks or b-doubles, etc.,
>> within 9 years? I don't think so! so obviously the legislation is
>> just stupid. the need for the power and range of petrol powered
>> vehicles will still exist in 2030.
>
> **Oh, and one more thing: The range of EVs is increasing
> incrementally. In 9 years, several things will have occurred:
>
> * Li-Ion batteries will improve by small increments over the next few
> years. Costs will fall substantially.
> * As fewer petrol cars are produced, their prices will rise.
> * Aluminium-Ion batteries are close to reality. They offer significant
> improvements in cost (aluminium is MUCH cheaper than Lithium), range
> (power density is double that of Li-Ion batteries), longevity and
> safety (you can drill a hole in an Al-Ion battery without risk).
>

I could be wrong of course, and there might be electric b-doubles and
road trains by 2030. it's just my opinion.

--
"A mans got to know his limitations"
-Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry

Re: Petrol cars ban

<s4o94j$jgg$1@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=604&group=aus.computers#604

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: new...@woa.com.au (News 2021)
Newsgroups: aus.cars,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Petrol cars ban
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 01:03:15 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <s4o94j$jgg$1@dont-email.me>
References: <id6uk4F76roU1@mid.individual.net> <s4liu2$cjb$1@dont-email.me>
<id9984Fl4mjU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me>
<id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 01:03:15 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="46b581458ebea5bed980533f76848903";
logging-data="19984"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18Ff3Kog7x0B0xQNe51O1WV"
User-Agent: Pan/0.145 (Duplicitous mercenary valetism; d7e168a
git.gnome.org/pan2)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:6ed1/Sz5ZNDCOGJWXKI5gJujscs=
 by: News 2021 - Fri, 9 Apr 2021 01:03 UTC

On Fri, 09 Apr 2021 09:28:54 +1000, Yosemite Sam scribed:

> As I posted previously, the legislation is about VEHICLES not just cars.
> So will we see electric 'road train' trucks or b-doubles, etc., within 9
> years? I don't think so!

Yes, we will. There are all ready such prime movers.
The first users will be the distribution companies shuffling stuff from
customer(s) to depot to depot to customer(s). It is all about the long
term costs of the vehicle. It will be a simple matter to install their
own recharge points.

>so obviously the legislation is just stupid.
> the need for the power and range of petrol powered vehicles will still
> exist in 2030.
>
> This discussion reminds me of what 'experts' were predicting in the late
> 1980's early 90's about the computer industry. They claimed that by the
> year 2000 we would be talking to our computers and they would be talking
> back. yet here we are in 2021 still typing on keyboards.

Yep, you can always find a wacko futuralist, however voice command has
been around since then, but it is generally more efficient to type, or
WOW, press 'buttons'. have you never eard of touch screen.

Anyway, more common early on was voice dictation of documents and you
might have missed the nuber of people whoseem to spend all their time
talking to their 'computer'; hint, those ltte things called smart phones
and GOSH,yo can even get a house butler that controls your house,
entertainment, orders your meals etc.

Re: Petrol cars ban

<s4o9hn$jgg$2@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=605&group=aus.computers#605

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: new...@woa.com.au (News 2021)
Newsgroups: aus.cars,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Petrol cars ban
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 01:10:16 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <s4o9hn$jgg$2@dont-email.me>
References: <id6uk4F76roU1@mid.individual.net> <s4liu2$cjb$1@dont-email.me>
<id9984Fl4mjU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me>
<id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net> <id9irnFmsdnU1@mid.individual.net>
<id9l91FnahoU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 01:10:16 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="46b581458ebea5bed980533f76848903";
logging-data="19984"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX1/0CsEC0f75rp8bMC1lJFEy"
User-Agent: Pan/0.145 (Duplicitous mercenary valetism; d7e168a
git.gnome.org/pan2)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:cK1ZJa2rDn4/cSIKEkVA8rlULhU=
 by: News 2021 - Fri, 9 Apr 2021 01:10 UTC

On Fri, 09 Apr 2021 10:27:21 +1000, Yosemite Sam scribed:

> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 9/04/2021 9:28 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:

>> **No. Diesel trucks, farm equipment and others will still be around for
>> a long time. Mostly because they are very expensive and tend to last a
>> long time. Petrol, however, is dead.
>
> you've missed the point; which was/is that there won't be electric
> versions of such vehicles by 2030 able to rival the power and
> performance of the current ICE versions, but the legislation is assuming
> there will be.

Wrong again. There will be. you must have completely missed the advances
over the last decade in power electronics and batteries.

Plus the average farmer has more roof top for PV installation than half a
dozen urban homes and he investment in a decent wind tower is less han a
modern tractor these days.

Re: Petrol cars ban

<s4o9n5$jgg$3@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=606&group=aus.computers#606

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: new...@woa.com.au (News 2021)
Newsgroups: aus.cars,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Petrol cars ban
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 01:13:09 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <s4o9n5$jgg$3@dont-email.me>
References: <id6uk4F76roU1@mid.individual.net> <s4liu2$cjb$1@dont-email.me>
<id9984Fl4mjU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me>
<id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net> <id9k2rFn30lU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Injection-Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 01:13:09 -0000 (UTC)
Injection-Info: reader02.eternal-september.org; posting-host="46b581458ebea5bed980533f76848903";
logging-data="19984"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@eternal-september.org"; posting-account="U2FsdGVkX18aN68ToUWY1BaaJeNu5ezr"
User-Agent: Pan/0.145 (Duplicitous mercenary valetism; d7e168a
git.gnome.org/pan2)
Cancel-Lock: sha1:CucxX5yq3jwjnK6ZrWBAoBusWag=
 by: News 2021 - Fri, 9 Apr 2021 01:13 UTC

On Fri, 09 Apr 2021 10:05:44 +1000, Trevor Wilson scribed:

> On 9/04/2021 9:28 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>
>
>> As I posted previously, the legislation is about VEHICLES not just
>> cars.
>> So will we see electric 'road train' trucks or b-doubles, etc., within
>> 9 years? I don't think so! so obviously the legislation is just stupid.
>> the need for the power and range of petrol powered vehicles will still
>> exist in 2030.
>
> **Oh, and one more thing: The range of EVs is increasing incrementally.
> In 9 years, several things will have occurred:
>
> * Li-Ion batteries will improve by small increments over the next few
> years. Costs will fall substantially.

The biggest cost reduction will come from any improvement in the
'refining' of lithium, cobalt and other components. Currently, this is
the really inefficient part.

Re: Petrol cars ban

<id9q0fFo47aU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=607&group=aus.computers#607

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Petrol cars ban
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 11:46:52 +1000
Lines: 121
Message-ID: <id9q0fFo47aU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <id6uk4F76roU1@mid.individual.net> <s4liu2$cjb$1@dont-email.me>
<id9984Fl4mjU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me>
<id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net> <id9irnFmsdnU1@mid.individual.net>
<id9l91FnahoU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net yZBNJYkr1wTgx0fgsVOAXA+2zxxJk7M/2takffxpFLkdDM9DNT
Cancel-Lock: sha1:EUE4kdIcqSd6HefAsn4ByMJB6Xg=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.9.0
In-Reply-To: <id9l91FnahoU1@mid.individual.net>
Content-Language: en-AU
 by: Xeno - Fri, 9 Apr 2021 01:46 UTC

On 9/4/21 10:27 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 9/04/2021 9:28 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> Noddy wrote:
>>>> On 9/04/2021 7:00 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> On 8/04/2021 10:32 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> If 2030 comes around and the world *isn't* ready to replace new
>>>>>> petrol or diesel powered cars with Electric ones it's not like
>>>>>> anyone is going to be executed :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> **Of course. However, by 2030, buying a petrol car will be pretty
>>>>> much restricted to second hand cars.
>>>>
>>>> Rubbish.
>>>>
>>>>> Don't forget: Australia doesn't have a car industry. So, despite
>>>>> the desperate desires of COALition politicians to keep burning as
>>>>> much fossil fuel as possible, new cars, after 2030 will mostly be
>>>>> electric, PHEV or hybrid types.
>>>>
>>>> More rubbish.
>>>>
>>>>> So, legally binding, is not the issue. Availability will be.
>>>>
>>>> That's what I said in another post. However the difference between
>>>> you and me is that you seem to believe that the bulk of the world's
>>>> vehicle manufacturers will have completely switched over from ICE
>>>> powered vehicles to EV's, and I think that's a laughable idea.
>>>>
>>>> A bit over 9 years simply isn't enough time for the technology to be
>>>> perfected to the point where EV's are a viable alternative, or the
>>>> infrastructure be put in place to accommodate them. 20 years
>>>> perhaps, but not 9.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> As I posted previously, the legislation is about VEHICLES not just
>>> cars. So will we see electric 'road train' trucks or b-doubles, etc.,
>>> within 9 years? I don't think so! so obviously the legislation is
>>> just stupid. the need for the power and range of petrol powered
>>> vehicles will still exist in 2030.
>>
>> **No. Diesel trucks, farm equipment and others will still be around
>> for a long time. Mostly because they are very expensive and tend to
>> last a long time. Petrol, however, is dead.
>
> you've missed the point; which was/is that there won't be electric
> versions of such vehicles by 2030 able to rival the power and
> performance of the current ICE versions, but the legislation is assuming
> there will be.

There will likely be hybrid versions of trucks however. As it is,
railway diesels are already diesel electric, all they lack is the
battery storage and regen capability. Mining trucks too are generally
diesel electric so the concept is not new by any means - been around for
as long as I can recall. Just build a road truck the same way with
battery and regen and you're done.
>
>> As are ICE passenger vehicles. Well, by 2030, anyway. The only
>> available new cars will be EV, PHEV or hybrid.
>>
>>>
>>> This discussion reminds me of what 'experts' were predicting in the
>>> late 1980's early 90's about the computer industry. They claimed that
>>> by the year 2000 we would be talking to our computers and they would
>>> be talking back. yet here we are in 2021 still typing on keyboards.
>>
>> **I was using speech control and speech to text back in the mid-1990s.
>> It worked OK. Keyboard is about as fast though. I was using a text to
>> voice system back in the late 1980s. Hell, I regularly use voice
>> control on my 'phone and have done for a number of years. If I need to
>> take notes, I just open the app, speak and save as text. My best
>> recollection is that my old Sammy phone did that more than 10 years ago.
>
> that's irrelevant to what the 'experts' were predicting would be the
> norm by y2k for the general population, business, etc.,
>
>>
>> As for talking to a computer, are you living on another planet?
>
> not but u might be
>
>> Are you aware of Google and their sub-$100.00 box that sits in your
>> home and answers questions?
>
> of course. but my post was not about current technology. what I said
> remains true. the experts predicted the keyboard would have gone the way
> of the dinosaur by y2000 and it hasn't. they were wrong.
>
Amongst young people, the keyboard is mostly gone. Tablets and phones
use a virtual keyboard. I prefer the real thing, that's why I have a
couple of USB keyboards here - connect to phone or tablet with one of
them and I'm in my comfort zone.
>>
>> You really need to get out more.
>>
>> Fundamentally, I would ask you this question:
>>
>> Let's say you have some money to invest and are restricted to vehicle
>> refuelling systems. Would you invest your money into a petrol (not
>> Diesel) station or an EV station?
>>
>> I know where I'd put my money.
>>
>
> whatever i would do is irrelevant to the issue
>
>

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: Petrol cars ban

<s4oegp$1uqc$1@gioia.aioe.org>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=608&group=aus.computers#608

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!Vw3e2Xllx2tO/Ig26+hk9g.user.gioia.aioe.org.POSTED!not-for-mail
From: not...@telling.you.invalid (Computer Nerd Kev)
Newsgroups: aus.cars,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Petrol cars ban
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 02:35:06 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Lines: 24
Message-ID: <s4oegp$1uqc$1@gioia.aioe.org>
References: <id6uk4F76roU1@mid.individual.net> <s4liu2$cjb$1@dont-email.me> <id9984Fl4mjU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me> <id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net> <id9k2rFn30lU1@mid.individual.net>
NNTP-Posting-Host: Vw3e2Xllx2tO/Ig26+hk9g.user.gioia.aioe.org
X-Complaints-To: abuse@aioe.org
User-Agent: tin/2.0.1-20111224 ("Achenvoir") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.31 (i686))
X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
 by: Computer Nerd Kev - Fri, 9 Apr 2021 02:35 UTC

In aus.computers Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>
> * Aluminium-Ion batteries are close to reality. They offer significant
> improvements in cost (aluminium is MUCH cheaper than Lithium), range
> (power density is double that of Li-Ion batteries), longevity and safety
> (you can drill a hole in an Al-Ion battery without risk).

It seems like there's always some amazing new battery technology
that's about to take the world by storm, but they rarely seem to
make it out of the lab and into production. A little research into
Aluminium-Ion reveals paragraphs like:

"The team has a long road ahead. There are currently a grand total
of zero aluminum-ion batteries on the commercial market, with
everything from keeping heat down to size standing in the way of
everyday use. But could the design be a blueprint for the future?"

The first commercial lithium-ion battery was available in 1991, so
it took a while for them to become ubiquitous after that (Ni-MH
was still used in many electric/hydrid cars in the 2000s).

--
__ __
#_ < |\| |< _#

Re: Petrol cars ban

<id9svuFokuqU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=609&group=aus.computers#609

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: fel...@not_here.net (Yosemite Sam)
Newsgroups: aus.cars,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Petrol cars ban
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 12:39:01 +1000
Lines: 116
Message-ID: <id9svuFokuqU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <id6uk4F76roU1@mid.individual.net> <s4liu2$cjb$1@dont-email.me>
<id9984Fl4mjU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me>
<id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net> <id9irnFmsdnU1@mid.individual.net>
<id9l91FnahoU1@mid.individual.net> <id9q0fFo47aU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net 1eKA42RKv5RdA2yP7L2xkwSXv4bXInYRo3lLe873zMXlK6ap/M
Cancel-Lock: sha1:okIBnaOb3YhcX67EAksoWdMtLw0=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/60.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.7
In-Reply-To: <id9q0fFo47aU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Yosemite Sam - Fri, 9 Apr 2021 02:39 UTC

Xeno wrote:
> On 9/4/21 10:27 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 9/04/2021 9:28 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>> Noddy wrote:
>>>>> On 9/04/2021 7:00 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/04/2021 10:32 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> If 2030 comes around and the world *isn't* ready to replace new
>>>>>>> petrol or diesel powered cars with Electric ones it's not like
>>>>>>> anyone is going to be executed :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Of course. However, by 2030, buying a petrol car will be pretty
>>>>>> much restricted to second hand cars.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rubbish.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't forget: Australia doesn't have a car industry. So, despite
>>>>>> the desperate desires of COALition politicians to keep burning as
>>>>>> much fossil fuel as possible, new cars, after 2030 will mostly be
>>>>>> electric, PHEV or hybrid types.
>>>>>
>>>>> More rubbish.
>>>>>
>>>>>> So, legally binding, is not the issue. Availability will be.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's what I said in another post. However the difference between
>>>>> you and me is that you seem to believe that the bulk of the
>>>>> world's vehicle manufacturers will have completely switched over
>>>>> from ICE powered vehicles to EV's, and I think that's a laughable
>>>>> idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> A bit over 9 years simply isn't enough time for the technology to
>>>>> be perfected to the point where EV's are a viable alternative, or
>>>>> the infrastructure be put in place to accommodate them. 20 years
>>>>> perhaps, but not 9.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As I posted previously, the legislation is about VEHICLES not just
>>>> cars. So will we see electric 'road train' trucks or b-doubles,
>>>> etc., within 9 years? I don't think so! so obviously the
>>>> legislation is just stupid. the need for the power and range of
>>>> petrol powered vehicles will still exist in 2030.
>>>
>>> **No. Diesel trucks, farm equipment and others will still be around
>>> for a long time. Mostly because they are very expensive and tend to
>>> last a long time. Petrol, however, is dead.
>>
>> you've missed the point; which was/is that there won't be electric
>> versions of such vehicles by 2030 able to rival the power and
>> performance of the current ICE versions, but the legislation is
>> assuming there will be.
>
> There will likely be hybrid versions of trucks however. As it is,
> railway diesels are already diesel electric, all they lack is the
> battery storage and regen capability. Mining trucks too are generally
> diesel electric so the concept is not new by any means - been around
> for as long as I can recall. Just build a road truck the same way with
> battery and regen and you're done.

yes I agree with that

>>
>>> As are ICE passenger vehicles. Well, by 2030, anyway. The only
>>> available new cars will be EV, PHEV or hybrid.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> This discussion reminds me of what 'experts' were predicting in the
>>>> late 1980's early 90's about the computer industry. They claimed
>>>> that by the year 2000 we would be talking to our computers and they
>>>> would be talking back. yet here we are in 2021 still typing on
>>>> keyboards.
>>>
>>> **I was using speech control and speech to text back in the
>>> mid-1990s. It worked OK. Keyboard is about as fast though. I was
>>> using a text to voice system back in the late 1980s. Hell, I
>>> regularly use voice control on my 'phone and have done for a number
>>> of years. If I need to take notes, I just open the app, speak and
>>> save as text. My best recollection is that my old Sammy phone did
>>> that more than 10 years ago.
>>
>> that's irrelevant to what the 'experts' were predicting would be the
>> norm by y2k for the general population, business, etc.,
>>
>>>
>>> As for talking to a computer, are you living on another planet?
>>
>> not but u might be
>>
>>> Are you aware of Google and their sub-$100.00 box that sits in your
>>> home and answers questions?
>>
>> of course. but my post was not about current technology. what I said
>> remains true. the experts predicted the keyboard would have gone the
>> way of the dinosaur by y2000 and it hasn't. they were wrong.
>>
> Amongst young people, the keyboard is mostly gone. Tablets and phones
> use a virtual keyboard.

laptops are very popular, and they still have a keyboard

> I prefer the real thing, that's why I have a couple of USB keyboards
> here - connect to phone or tablet with one of them and I'm in my
> comfort zone.

I use speech to txt with the mobile

--
"A mans got to know his limitations"
-Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry

Re: Petrol cars ban

<id9ueeFosn6U1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=611&group=aus.computers#611

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Petrol cars ban
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 13:02:35 +1000
Lines: 133
Message-ID: <id9ueeFosn6U1@mid.individual.net>
References: <id6uk4F76roU1@mid.individual.net> <s4liu2$cjb$1@dont-email.me>
<id9984Fl4mjU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me>
<id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net> <id9irnFmsdnU1@mid.individual.net>
<id9l91FnahoU1@mid.individual.net> <id9q0fFo47aU1@mid.individual.net>
<id9svuFokuqU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net 3SMIpOh9XA38Vj0pu/UnBwfCO2lrJgXfe7AsWWMTZkCE79thO5
Cancel-Lock: sha1:d88rEUZLKINjgVIG9Eyg8HHVjdk=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.9.0
In-Reply-To: <id9svuFokuqU1@mid.individual.net>
Content-Language: en-AU
 by: Xeno - Fri, 9 Apr 2021 03:02 UTC

On 9/4/21 12:39 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> Xeno wrote:
>> On 9/4/21 10:27 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 9/04/2021 9:28 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>> Noddy wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/04/2021 7:00 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>> On 8/04/2021 10:32 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If 2030 comes around and the world *isn't* ready to replace new
>>>>>>>> petrol or diesel powered cars with Electric ones it's not like
>>>>>>>> anyone is going to be executed :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **Of course. However, by 2030, buying a petrol car will be pretty
>>>>>>> much restricted to second hand cars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rubbish.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't forget: Australia doesn't have a car industry. So, despite
>>>>>>> the desperate desires of COALition politicians to keep burning as
>>>>>>> much fossil fuel as possible, new cars, after 2030 will mostly be
>>>>>>> electric, PHEV or hybrid types.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More rubbish.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, legally binding, is not the issue. Availability will be.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's what I said in another post. However the difference between
>>>>>> you and me is that you seem to believe that the bulk of the
>>>>>> world's vehicle manufacturers will have completely switched over
>>>>>> from ICE powered vehicles to EV's, and I think that's a laughable
>>>>>> idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A bit over 9 years simply isn't enough time for the technology to
>>>>>> be perfected to the point where EV's are a viable alternative, or
>>>>>> the infrastructure be put in place to accommodate them. 20 years
>>>>>> perhaps, but not 9.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As I posted previously, the legislation is about VEHICLES not just
>>>>> cars. So will we see electric 'road train' trucks or b-doubles,
>>>>> etc., within 9 years? I don't think so! so obviously the
>>>>> legislation is just stupid. the need for the power and range of
>>>>> petrol powered vehicles will still exist in 2030.
>>>>
>>>> **No. Diesel trucks, farm equipment and others will still be around
>>>> for a long time. Mostly because they are very expensive and tend to
>>>> last a long time. Petrol, however, is dead.
>>>
>>> you've missed the point; which was/is that there won't be electric
>>> versions of such vehicles by 2030 able to rival the power and
>>> performance of the current ICE versions, but the legislation is
>>> assuming there will be.
>>
>> There will likely be hybrid versions of trucks however. As it is,
>> railway diesels are already diesel electric, all they lack is the
>> battery storage and regen capability. Mining trucks too are generally
>> diesel electric so the concept is not new by any means - been around
>> for as long as I can recall. Just build a road truck the same way with
>> battery and regen and you're done.
>
> yes I agree with that

For that matter, hybrid cars (petrol-electric) are hardly new.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Owen_Magnetic

https://www.musclecarsandtrucks.com/1916-owen-magnetic-hybrid-car-jay-lenos-garage-video/
>
>>>
>>>> As are ICE passenger vehicles. Well, by 2030, anyway. The only
>>>> available new cars will be EV, PHEV or hybrid.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This discussion reminds me of what 'experts' were predicting in the
>>>>> late 1980's early 90's about the computer industry. They claimed
>>>>> that by the year 2000 we would be talking to our computers and they
>>>>> would be talking back. yet here we are in 2021 still typing on
>>>>> keyboards.
>>>>
>>>> **I was using speech control and speech to text back in the
>>>> mid-1990s. It worked OK. Keyboard is about as fast though. I was
>>>> using a text to voice system back in the late 1980s. Hell, I
>>>> regularly use voice control on my 'phone and have done for a number
>>>> of years. If I need to take notes, I just open the app, speak and
>>>> save as text. My best recollection is that my old Sammy phone did
>>>> that more than 10 years ago.
>>>
>>> that's irrelevant to what the 'experts' were predicting would be the
>>> norm by y2k for the general population, business, etc.,
>>>
>>>>
>>>> As for talking to a computer, are you living on another planet?
>>>
>>> not but u might be
>>>
>>>> Are you aware of Google and their sub-$100.00 box that sits in your
>>>> home and answers questions?
>>>
>>> of course. but my post was not about current technology. what I said
>>> remains true. the experts predicted the keyboard would have gone the
>>> way of the dinosaur by y2000 and it hasn't. they were wrong.
>>>
>> Amongst young people, the keyboard is mostly gone. Tablets and phones
>> use a virtual keyboard.
>
> laptops are very popular, and they still have a keyboard

Not as much as they once were however and quite a few have a touch
screen these days. I still have one, no touch screen though, and gets
very little use. It's only had 4 or 5 battery recharges since I bought
it some 6-8 months ago. Goes for 10 hours on a recharge however.
>
>> I prefer the real thing, that's why I have a couple of USB keyboards
>> here - connect to phone or tablet with one of them and I'm in my
>> comfort zone.
>
> I use speech to txt with the mobile
>
>

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: Petrol cars ban

<id9up4FouhuU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=612&group=aus.computers#612

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Petrol cars ban
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 13:08:18 +1000
Lines: 63
Message-ID: <id9up4FouhuU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <id6uk4F76roU1@mid.individual.net> <s4liu2$cjb$1@dont-email.me>
<id9984Fl4mjU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me>
<id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net> <s4oe7o$5kb$1@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net Wo0Eh/xtKyL9ziN8vQJG0AzECyirlVChGJnUBJdZCLzn8RjdIn
Cancel-Lock: sha1:7UtSDpJwjoVFOU2pixtZGz8QfJM=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.9.0
In-Reply-To: <s4oe7o$5kb$1@dont-email.me>
Content-Language: en-AU
 by: Xeno - Fri, 9 Apr 2021 03:08 UTC

On 9/4/21 12:30 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 9/04/2021 9:28 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> Noddy wrote:
>
>>> A bit over 9 years simply isn't enough time for the technology to be
>>> perfected to the point where EV's are a viable alternative, or the
>>> infrastructure be put in place to accommodate them. 20 years perhaps,
>>> but not 9.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> As I posted previously, the legislation is about VEHICLES not just
>> cars. So will we see electric 'road train' trucks or b-doubles, etc.,
>> within 9 years? I don't think so! so obviously the legislation is just
>> stupid. the need for the power and range of petrol powered vehicles
>> will still exist in 2030.
>
> Indeed it will.
>
>> This discussion reminds me of what 'experts' were predicting in the
>> late 1980's early 90's about the computer industry. They claimed that
>> by the year 2000 we would be talking to our computers and they would
>> be talking back. yet here we are in 2021 still typing on keyboards.
>
> Such expert "predictions" have existed since time immemorial. If you
> look back at some of the environmental predictions from the 1970's and
> 80's for example you'll see that the claims were as outlandish then as
> they are today, and if they were anything like accurate we should either
> all be dead or living in a wasteland by now that would resemble
> something out of the movie "waterworld".

That's just your delusions kicking in Darren. No one said we would be in
a waterworld by now. What they said was that we would see much more
unpredictable weather - for one - and that is certainly the case.
>
> That's the problem with such "experts". They're great at understanding
> the science, but when it comes to making predictions they're prone to
> sensationalist over dramatisation as that's the only way they manage to
> get any attention, and ultimately funding.

The experts, unlike frauds like you, know what they are talking about. A
conference paper in 1983 laid out quite clearly what would happen if no
action was taken and we are reaping the fruits of that now. It's just
early days Darren.
>
> In years to come, people will look back on us today wondering what all
> the panic about "climate change" was about, and think we were a bunch of
> utter fuckwits :)
>
No Darren, that's how they will look at deniers like you
>
> Don't cross post Felix. There is no need for it.

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: Petrol cars ban

<id9v4iFp0cnU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=613&group=aus.computers#613

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!4.us.feeder.erje.net!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.cars,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Petrol cars ban
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 13:14:18 +1000
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <id9v4iFp0cnU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <id6uk4F76roU1@mid.individual.net> <s4liu2$cjb$1@dont-email.me> <id9984Fl4mjU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me> <id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
format=flowed;
charset="utf-8";
reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net OMFXyClq3J91JdQ/vZzTLQ3zpxtHUPuZu1kGqsdEjnLmgQL4U=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:RJF57L3ujWbfM7U8HoAmBCV1loE=
In-Reply-To: <id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416
 by: Rod Speed - Fri, 9 Apr 2021 03:14 UTC

"Yosemite Sam" <felix@not_here.net> wrote in message
news:id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net...
> Noddy wrote:
>> On 9/04/2021 7:00 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 8/04/2021 10:32 am, Noddy wrote:
>>
>>>> If 2030 comes around and the world *isn't* ready to replace new petrol
>>>> or diesel powered cars with Electric ones it's not like anyone is going
>>>> to be executed :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> **Of course. However, by 2030, buying a petrol car will be pretty much
>>> restricted to second hand cars.
>>
>> Rubbish.
>>
>>> Don't forget: Australia doesn't have a car industry. So, despite the
>>> desperate desires of COALition politicians to keep burning as much
>>> fossil fuel as possible, new cars, after 2030 will mostly be electric,
>>> PHEV or hybrid types.
>>
>> More rubbish.
>>
>>> So, legally binding, is not the issue. Availability will be.
>>
>> That's what I said in another post. However the difference between you
>> and me is that you seem to believe that the bulk of the world's vehicle
>> manufacturers will have completely switched over from ICE powered
>> vehicles to EV's, and I think that's a laughable idea.
>>
>> A bit over 9 years simply isn't enough time for the technology to be
>> perfected to the point where EV's are a viable alternative, or the
>> infrastructure be put in place to accommodate them. 20 years perhaps, but
>> not 9.
>>
>>
>
> As I posted previously, the legislation is about VEHICLES not just cars.
> So will we see electric 'road train' trucks or b-doubles, etc., within 9
> years? I don't think so! so obviously the legislation is just stupid. the
> need for the power and range of petrol powered vehicles will still exist
> in 2030.

> This discussion reminds me of what 'experts' were predicting in the late
> 1980's early 90's about the computer industry. They claimed that by the
> year 2000 we would be talking to our computers and they would be talking
> back. yet here we are in 2021 still typing on keyboards.

Nope, I talk to mine and they talk back. I do all texting and emailing and
messaging on the phone that way too. Dinosaurs like you are irrelevant.

Re: Petrol cars ban

<id9vghFp3bnU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=614&group=aus.computers#614

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!news.uzoreto.com!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.cars,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Petrol cars ban
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 13:20:41 +1000
Lines: 103
Message-ID: <id9vghFp3bnU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <id6uk4F76roU1@mid.individual.net> <s4liu2$cjb$1@dont-email.me> <id9984Fl4mjU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me> <id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net> <id9irnFmsdnU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
format=flowed;
charset="utf-8";
reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net 61pphmOlrxQYH6Nhq4onbQL+kPgvYdbe0IlB8AbBGOPILRNjs=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:c0uDHonBOk43aoruhoUCmKzvhlc=
In-Reply-To: <id9irnFmsdnU1@mid.individual.net>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416
 by: Rod Speed - Fri, 9 Apr 2021 03:20 UTC

"Trevor Wilson" <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote in message
news:id9irnFmsdnU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 9/04/2021 9:28 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> Noddy wrote:
>>> On 9/04/2021 7:00 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 8/04/2021 10:32 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>
>>>>> If 2030 comes around and the world *isn't* ready to replace new petrol
>>>>> or diesel powered cars with Electric ones it's not like anyone is
>>>>> going to be executed :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> **Of course. However, by 2030, buying a petrol car will be pretty much
>>>> restricted to second hand cars.
>>>
>>> Rubbish.
>>>
>>>> Don't forget: Australia doesn't have a car industry. So, despite the
>>>> desperate desires of COALition politicians to keep burning as much
>>>> fossil fuel as possible, new cars, after 2030 will mostly be electric,
>>>> PHEV or hybrid types.
>>>
>>> More rubbish.
>>>
>>>> So, legally binding, is not the issue. Availability will be.
>>>
>>> That's what I said in another post. However the difference between you
>>> and me is that you seem to believe that the bulk of the world's vehicle
>>> manufacturers will have completely switched over from ICE powered
>>> vehicles to EV's, and I think that's a laughable idea.
>>>
>>> A bit over 9 years simply isn't enough time for the technology to be
>>> perfected to the point where EV's are a viable alternative, or the
>>> infrastructure be put in place to accommodate them. 20 years perhaps,
>>> but not 9.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> As I posted previously, the legislation is about VEHICLES not just cars.
>> So will we see electric 'road train' trucks or b-doubles, etc., within 9
>> years? I don't think so! so obviously the legislation is just stupid. the
>> need for the power and range of petrol powered vehicles will still exist
>> in 2030.

> No. Diesel trucks, farm equipment and others will still be around for a
> long time. Mostly because they are very expensive and tend to last a long
> time.

And because EVs arent viable for that.

> Petrol, however, is dead. As are ICE passenger vehicles.

Bullshit on both counts.

> Well, by 2030, anyway.

Bullshit.

> The only available new cars will be EV, PHEV or hybrid.

More bullshit.

>> This discussion reminds me of what 'experts' were predicting in the late
>> 1980's early 90's about the computer industry. They claimed that by the
>> year 2000 we would be talking to our computers and they would be talking
>> back. yet here we are in 2021 still typing on keyboards.

> I was using speech control and speech to text back in the mid-1990s. It
> worked OK. Keyboard is about as fast though. I was using a text to voice
> system back in the late 1980s. Hell, I regularly use voice control on my
> 'phone and have done for a number of years. If I need to take notes, I
> just open the app, speak and save as text. My best recollection is that my
> old Sammy phone did that more than 10 years ago.

> As for talking to a computer, are you living on another planet? Are you
> aware of Google and their sub-$100.00 box that sits in your home and
> answers questions?

I have all 3 systems and use all 3 daily.

> You really need to get out more.

> Fundamentally, I would ask you this question:

> Let's say you have some money to invest and are restricted to vehicle
> refuelling systems. Would you invest your money into a petrol

Nope, because there still too many of them.

Couple of operations in my town have just done that tho.

> (not Diesel) station or an EV station?

No one has bothered with EV here.

> I know where I'd put my money.

I know where those with the money are doing that and it isnt EV very often.

Re: Petrol cars ban

<id9vhaFp3lbU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=615&group=aus.computers#615

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: tre...@rageaudio.com.au (Trevor Wilson)
Newsgroups: aus.cars,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Petrol cars ban
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 13:21:12 +1000
Lines: 56
Message-ID: <id9vhaFp3lbU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <id6uk4F76roU1@mid.individual.net> <s4liu2$cjb$1@dont-email.me>
<id9984Fl4mjU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me>
<id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net> <id9k2rFn30lU1@mid.individual.net>
<s4oegp$1uqc$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net PBm4HbIyWoFkUo5DPsgdkQIeVyQdWkPSNGJPLbIuSEqi9T80aS
Cancel-Lock: sha1:e/MtsK2MGkZMS4tnxS+hEIJPIKA=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101
Thunderbird/78.9.0
In-Reply-To: <s4oegp$1uqc$1@gioia.aioe.org>
Content-Language: en-US
X-Antivirus: Avast (VPS 210408-4, 08/04/2021), Outbound message
X-Antivirus-Status: Clean
 by: Trevor Wilson - Fri, 9 Apr 2021 03:21 UTC

On 9/04/2021 12:35 pm, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> In aus.computers Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote:
>>
>> * Aluminium-Ion batteries are close to reality. They offer significant
>> improvements in cost (aluminium is MUCH cheaper than Lithium), range
>> (power density is double that of Li-Ion batteries), longevity and safety
>> (you can drill a hole in an Al-Ion battery without risk).
>
> It seems like there's always some amazing new battery technology
> that's about to take the world by storm,

**Such as?

but they rarely seem to
> make it out of the lab and into production. A little research into
> Aluminium-Ion reveals paragraphs like:
>
> "The team has a long road ahead. There are currently a grand total
> of zero aluminum-ion batteries on the commercial market, with
> everything from keeping heat down to size standing in the way of
> everyday use. But could the design be a blueprint for the future?"

**"The team"? There are AT LEAST EIGHT teamS working on commercialising
Al-Ion batteries. That we know of:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium-ion_battery#Research

>
> The first commercial lithium-ion battery was available in 1991, so
> it took a while for them to become ubiquitous after that (Ni-MH
> was still used in many electric/hydrid cars in the 2000s).
>

**Two things:

1) The only use for Li-Ion batteries back then was in portable
electronic equipment. Their use in cars requires HUGE manufacturing
capacity.
2) The first Li-Ion prototype battery appear in 1985. It was on the
market in six years. Sounds about right. I see a couple of reasons why
some car manufacturers stick with NiMH batteries: 1) They're safer.
They're cheaper.
3) Li-Ion batteries are dangerous. Al-Ion batteries are MUCH safer. Car
manufacturers prefer safety, due to law suits.
4) Al-Ion batteries will be cheaper. Car manufacturers like to cut costs.

Well, that's four things. There are huge chunks of money being poured
into Al-Ion battery research. Of course, that doesn't mean a commercial
product is guaranteed, but it suggests that some are close.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: Petrol cars ban

<id9voqFp4qqU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=616&group=aus.computers#616

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!4.us.feeder.erje.net!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.cars,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Petrol cars ban
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 13:25:06 +1000
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <id9voqFp4qqU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <id6uk4F76roU1@mid.individual.net> <s4liu2$cjb$1@dont-email.me> <id9984Fl4mjU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me> <id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net> <id9k2rFn30lU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
format=flowed;
charset="utf-8";
reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net csmPru1/kDBJ42XtS9IFDgrItUbfP2helf9KmIQiN350YShVo=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:uf2knCcmbCSzphJCsWjJJ9jRpww=
In-Reply-To: <id9k2rFn30lU1@mid.individual.net>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416
 by: Rod Speed - Fri, 9 Apr 2021 03:25 UTC

Trevor Wilson <trevor@rageaudio.com.au> wrote
> Yosemite Sam wrote

>> As I posted previously, the legislation is about VEHICLES not just cars.
>> So will we see electric 'road train' trucks or b-doubles, etc., within 9
>> years? I don't think so! so obviously the legislation is just stupid. the
>> need for the power and range of petrol powered vehicles will still exist
>> in 2030.

> Oh, and one more thing: The range of EVs is increasing incrementally.

Still useless for me. Yes I can start with it fully charged but fuck all
places to recharge here and vastly slower than filling with petrol.

> In 9 years, several things will have occurred:

> Li-Ion batteries will improve by small increments over the next few years.
> Costs will fall substantially.

How odd that it hasn’t with mobile phones and laptops.

> As fewer petrol cars are produced, their prices will rise.

Bullshit.

> Aluminium-Ion batteries are close to reality.

We'll see...

> They offer significant improvements in cost (aluminium is MUCH cheaper
> than Lithium), range (power density is double that of Li-Ion batteries),
> longevity and safety (you can drill a hole in an Al-Ion battery without
> risk).

I wouldn’t be drilling a hole in my very expensive EV battery.

Re: Petrol cars ban

<id9vusFp5n9U1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=617&group=aus.computers#617

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!lilly.ping.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.cars,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Petrol cars ban
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 13:28:20 +1000
Lines: 40
Message-ID: <id9vusFp5n9U1@mid.individual.net>
References: <id6uk4F76roU1@mid.individual.net> <s4liu2$cjb$1@dont-email.me><id9984Fl4mjU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me><id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o94j$jgg$1@dont-email.me>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
format=flowed;
charset="utf-8";
reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net SgM05enxVDhFrTdKMW8B9gyXSVuP9yW9ThZ7dxrZh8f4ATkmM=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:wcyFv6MnqCSWbeEDlx2DhZXQyfE=
In-Reply-To: <s4o94j$jgg$1@dont-email.me>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416
 by: Rod Speed - Fri, 9 Apr 2021 03:28 UTC

"News 2021" <news21@woa.com.au> wrote in message
news:s4o94j$jgg$1@dont-email.me...
> On Fri, 09 Apr 2021 09:28:54 +1000, Yosemite Sam scribed:
>
>
>> As I posted previously, the legislation is about VEHICLES not just cars.
>> So will we see electric 'road train' trucks or b-doubles, etc., within 9
>> years? I don't think so!
>
> Yes, we will. There are all ready such prime movers.
> The first users will be the distribution companies shuffling stuff from
> customer(s) to depot to depot to customer(s). It is all about the long
> term costs of the vehicle. It will be a simple matter to install their
> own recharge points.
>
>>so obviously the legislation is just stupid.
>> the need for the power and range of petrol powered vehicles will still
>> exist in 2030.
>>
>> This discussion reminds me of what 'experts' were predicting in the late
>> 1980's early 90's about the computer industry. They claimed that by the
>> year 2000 we would be talking to our computers and they would be talking
>> back. yet here we are in 2021 still typing on keyboards.

> Yep, you can always find a wacko futuralist, however voice command
> has been around since then, but it is generally more efficient to type,

Bullshit it is and I am a fast touch typist.

> or WOW, press 'buttons'. have you never eard of touch screen.

> Anyway, more common early on was voice dictation of documents
> and you might have missed the nuber of people whoseem to spend
> all their time talking to their 'computer'; hint, those ltte things called
> smart phones and GOSH,yo can even get a house butler that controls
> your house, entertainment, orders your meals etc.

Re: Petrol cars ban

<ida09rFp7h1U1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=618&group=aus.computers#618

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.cars,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Petrol cars ban
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 13:34:12 +1000
Lines: 138
Message-ID: <ida09rFp7h1U1@mid.individual.net>
References: <id6uk4F76roU1@mid.individual.net> <s4liu2$cjb$1@dont-email.me> <id9984Fl4mjU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me> <id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net> <id9irnFmsdnU1@mid.individual.net> <id9l91FnahoU1@mid.individual.net> <id9q0fFo47aU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
format=flowed;
charset="utf-8";
reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-Trace: individual.net elIQFsf1kD+vP2oof6QYzw0L5DsBuMY7Go2qQfwK8zZ2fNQLs=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:1FQIUPYSEgYglvjGfy8117ecmv4=
In-Reply-To: <id9q0fFo47aU1@mid.individual.net>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416
 by: Rod Speed - Fri, 9 Apr 2021 03:34 UTC

"Xeno" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:id9q0fFo47aU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 9/4/21 10:27 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 9/04/2021 9:28 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>> Noddy wrote:
>>>>> On 9/04/2021 7:00 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/04/2021 10:32 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> If 2030 comes around and the world *isn't* ready to replace new
>>>>>>> petrol or diesel powered cars with Electric ones it's not like
>>>>>>> anyone is going to be executed :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Of course. However, by 2030, buying a petrol car will be pretty
>>>>>> much restricted to second hand cars.
>>>>>
>>>>> Rubbish.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Don't forget: Australia doesn't have a car industry. So, despite the
>>>>>> desperate desires of COALition politicians to keep burning as much
>>>>>> fossil fuel as possible, new cars, after 2030 will mostly be
>>>>>> electric, PHEV or hybrid types.
>>>>>
>>>>> More rubbish.
>>>>>
>>>>>> So, legally binding, is not the issue. Availability will be.
>>>>>
>>>>> That's what I said in another post. However the difference between you
>>>>> and me is that you seem to believe that the bulk of the world's
>>>>> vehicle manufacturers will have completely switched over from ICE
>>>>> powered vehicles to EV's, and I think that's a laughable idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> A bit over 9 years simply isn't enough time for the technology to be
>>>>> perfected to the point where EV's are a viable alternative, or the
>>>>> infrastructure be put in place to accommodate them. 20 years perhaps,
>>>>> but not 9.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As I posted previously, the legislation is about VEHICLES not just
>>>> cars. So will we see electric 'road train' trucks or b-doubles, etc.,
>>>> within 9 years? I don't think so! so obviously the legislation is just
>>>> stupid. the need for the power and range of petrol powered vehicles
>>>> will still exist in 2030.
>>>
>>> **No. Diesel trucks, farm equipment and others will still be around for
>>> a long time. Mostly because they are very expensive and tend to last a
>>> long time. Petrol, however, is dead.
>>
>> you've missed the point; which was/is that there won't be electric
>> versions of such vehicles by 2030 able to rival the power and performance
>> of the current ICE versions, but the legislation is assuming there will
>> be.

> There will likely be hybrid versions of trucks however. As it is, railway
> diesels are already diesel electric, all they lack is the battery storage
> and regen capability.

Pity about the stupid recharge time with those.

> Mining trucks too are generally diesel electric

Which generates the power they use using the ICE engine.

> so the concept is not new by any means - been around for as long as I can
> recall. Just build a road truck the same way with battery and regen and
> you're done.

Nope, pity about the stupid recharge time.

>>> As are ICE passenger vehicles. Well, by 2030, anyway. The only available
>>> new cars will be EV, PHEV or hybrid.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> This discussion reminds me of what 'experts' were predicting in the
>>>> late 1980's early 90's about the computer industry. They claimed that
>>>> by the year 2000 we would be talking to our computers and they would be
>>>> talking back. yet here we are in 2021 still typing on keyboards.
>>>
>>> **I was using speech control and speech to text back in the mid-1990s.
>>> It worked OK. Keyboard is about as fast though. I was using a text to
>>> voice system back in the late 1980s. Hell, I regularly use voice control
>>> on my 'phone and have done for a number of years. If I need to take
>>> notes, I just open the app, speak and save as text. My best recollection
>>> is that my old Sammy phone did that more than 10 years ago.
>>
>> that's irrelevant to what the 'experts' were predicting would be the norm
>> by y2k for the general population, business, etc.,
>>
>>>
>>> As for talking to a computer, are you living on another planet?
>>
>> not but u might be
>>
>>> Are you aware of Google and their sub-$100.00 box that sits in your home
>>> and answers questions?
>>
>> of course. but my post was not about current technology. what I said
>> remains true. the experts predicted the keyboard would have gone the way
>> of the dinosaur by y2000 and it hasn't. they were wrong.

> Amongst young people, the keyboard is mostly gone.

Yep, and plenty don’t even bother with
computers anymore, just have the phone.

> Tablets and phones use a virtual keyboard.

And they all do voice input now instead of using the virtual keyboard.

> I prefer the real thing,

I don’t with the phone and tablet.

> that's why I have a couple of USB keyboards here - connect to phone or
> tablet with one of them and I'm in my comfort zone.

But you are a stupid dinosaur.

>>> You really need to get out more.
>>>
>>> Fundamentally, I would ask you this question:
>>>
>>> Let's say you have some money to invest and are restricted to vehicle
>>> refuelling systems. Would you invest your money into a petrol (not
>>> Diesel) station or an EV station?
>>>
>>> I know where I'd put my money.
>>>
>>
>> whatever i would do is irrelevant to the issue

Re: Petrol cars ban

<ida0ctFp7s8U1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=619&group=aus.computers#619

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!4.us.feeder.erje.net!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.cars,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Petrol cars ban
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 13:35:50 +1000
Lines: 115
Message-ID: <ida0ctFp7s8U1@mid.individual.net>
References: <id6uk4F76roU1@mid.individual.net> <s4liu2$cjb$1@dont-email.me> <id9984Fl4mjU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me> <id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net> <id9irnFmsdnU1@mid.individual.net> <id9l91FnahoU1@mid.individual.net> <id9q0fFo47aU1@mid.individual.net> <id9svuFokuqU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
format=flowed;
charset="utf-8";
reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net Fp/NY3rjwk9gM2GRDn75owidZNyXLCXKwD87wNJUHU7EEm3lw=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:06cTRJtx82Pjvhkv1llAG7hwKZE=
In-Reply-To: <id9svuFokuqU1@mid.individual.net>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416
 by: Rod Speed - Fri, 9 Apr 2021 03:35 UTC

"Yosemite Sam" <felix@not_here.net> wrote in message
news:id9svuFokuqU1@mid.individual.net...
> Xeno wrote:
>> On 9/4/21 10:27 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 9/04/2021 9:28 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>> Noddy wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/04/2021 7:00 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>> On 8/04/2021 10:32 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If 2030 comes around and the world *isn't* ready to replace new
>>>>>>>> petrol or diesel powered cars with Electric ones it's not like
>>>>>>>> anyone is going to be executed :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **Of course. However, by 2030, buying a petrol car will be pretty
>>>>>>> much restricted to second hand cars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rubbish.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't forget: Australia doesn't have a car industry. So, despite the
>>>>>>> desperate desires of COALition politicians to keep burning as much
>>>>>>> fossil fuel as possible, new cars, after 2030 will mostly be
>>>>>>> electric, PHEV or hybrid types.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More rubbish.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, legally binding, is not the issue. Availability will be.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's what I said in another post. However the difference between
>>>>>> you and me is that you seem to believe that the bulk of the world's
>>>>>> vehicle manufacturers will have completely switched over from ICE
>>>>>> powered vehicles to EV's, and I think that's a laughable idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A bit over 9 years simply isn't enough time for the technology to be
>>>>>> perfected to the point where EV's are a viable alternative, or the
>>>>>> infrastructure be put in place to accommodate them. 20 years perhaps,
>>>>>> but not 9.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As I posted previously, the legislation is about VEHICLES not just
>>>>> cars. So will we see electric 'road train' trucks or b-doubles, etc.,
>>>>> within 9 years? I don't think so! so obviously the legislation is just
>>>>> stupid. the need for the power and range of petrol powered vehicles
>>>>> will still exist in 2030.
>>>>
>>>> **No. Diesel trucks, farm equipment and others will still be around for
>>>> a long time. Mostly because they are very expensive and tend to last a
>>>> long time. Petrol, however, is dead.
>>>
>>> you've missed the point; which was/is that there won't be electric
>>> versions of such vehicles by 2030 able to rival the power and
>>> performance of the current ICE versions, but the legislation is assuming
>>> there will be.
>>
>> There will likely be hybrid versions of trucks however. As it is, railway
>> diesels are already diesel electric, all they lack is the battery storage
>> and regen capability. Mining trucks too are generally diesel electric so
>> the concept is not new by any means - been around for as long as I can
>> recall. Just build a road truck the same way with battery and regen and
>> you're done.
>
> yes I agree with that
>
>>>
>>>> As are ICE passenger vehicles. Well, by 2030, anyway. The only
>>>> available new cars will be EV, PHEV or hybrid.
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This discussion reminds me of what 'experts' were predicting in the
>>>>> late 1980's early 90's about the computer industry. They claimed that
>>>>> by the year 2000 we would be talking to our computers and they would
>>>>> be talking back. yet here we are in 2021 still typing on keyboards.
>>>>
>>>> **I was using speech control and speech to text back in the mid-1990s.
>>>> It worked OK. Keyboard is about as fast though. I was using a text to
>>>> voice system back in the late 1980s. Hell, I regularly use voice
>>>> control on my 'phone and have done for a number of years. If I need to
>>>> take notes, I just open the app, speak and save as text. My best
>>>> recollection is that my old Sammy phone did that more than 10 years
>>>> ago.
>>>
>>> that's irrelevant to what the 'experts' were predicting would be the
>>> norm by y2k for the general population, business, etc.,
>>>
>>>>
>>>> As for talking to a computer, are you living on another planet?
>>>
>>> not but u might be
>>>
>>>> Are you aware of Google and their sub-$100.00 box that sits in your
>>>> home and answers questions?
>>>
>>> of course. but my post was not about current technology. what I said
>>> remains true. the experts predicted the keyboard would have gone the way
>>> of the dinosaur by y2000 and it hasn't. they were wrong.
>>>
>> Amongst young people, the keyboard is mostly gone. Tablets and phones use
>> a virtual keyboard.
>
> laptops are very popular, and they still have a keyboard
>
>> I prefer the real thing, that's why I have a couple of USB keyboards
>> here - connect to phone or tablet with one of them and I'm in my comfort
>> zone.
>
> I use speech to txt with the mobile

Me too, so your original is silly.

Re: Petrol cars ban

<ida0m6Fp9fkU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=621&group=aus.computers#621

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder6.news.weretis.net!4.us.feeder.erje.net!2.eu.feeder.erje.net!feeder.erje.net!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.cars,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Petrol cars ban
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 13:40:46 +1000
Lines: 61
Message-ID: <ida0m6Fp9fkU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <id6uk4F76roU1@mid.individual.net> <s4liu2$cjb$1@dont-email.me> <id9984Fl4mjU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me> <id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net> <s4oe7o$5kb$1@dont-email.me> <id9up4FouhuU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
format=flowed;
charset="utf-8";
reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net E4Hy8CXPv1dwRCwkmyTIzQxt8ChXmlsnyG3uKNQIFIWllFdmc=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:8uXTrStc5lCXUVxjmi4DGhuUJ2A=
In-Reply-To: <id9up4FouhuU1@mid.individual.net>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416
 by: Rod Speed - Fri, 9 Apr 2021 03:40 UTC

"Xeno" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:id9up4FouhuU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 9/4/21 12:30 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 9/04/2021 9:28 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> Noddy wrote:
>>
>>>> A bit over 9 years simply isn't enough time for the technology to be
>>>> perfected to the point where EV's are a viable alternative, or the
>>>> infrastructure be put in place to accommodate them. 20 years perhaps,
>>>> but not 9.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> As I posted previously, the legislation is about VEHICLES not just cars.
>>> So will we see electric 'road train' trucks or b-doubles, etc., within 9
>>> years? I don't think so! so obviously the legislation is just stupid.
>>> the need for the power and range of petrol powered vehicles will still
>>> exist in 2030.
>>
>> Indeed it will.
>>
>>> This discussion reminds me of what 'experts' were predicting in the late
>>> 1980's early 90's about the computer industry. They claimed that by the
>>> year 2000 we would be talking to our computers and they would be talking
>>> back. yet here we are in 2021 still typing on keyboards.
>>
>> Such expert "predictions" have existed since time immemorial. If you look
>> back at some of the environmental predictions from the 1970's and 80's
>> for example you'll see that the claims were as outlandish then as they
>> are today, and if they were anything like accurate we should either all
>> be dead or living in a wasteland by now that would resemble something out
>> of the movie "waterworld".
>
> That's just your delusions kicking in Darren. No one said we would be in a
> waterworld by now. What they said was that we would see much more
> unpredictable weather - for one - and that is certainly the case.
>>
>> That's the problem with such "experts". They're great at understanding
>> the science, but when it comes to making predictions they're prone to
>> sensationalist over dramatisation as that's the only way they manage to
>> get any attention, and ultimately funding.
>
> The experts, unlike frauds like you, know what they are talking about. A
> conference paper in 1983 laid out quite clearly what would happen if no
> action was taken and we are reaping the fruits of that now.

Bullshit we are.

> It's just early days Darren.
>>
>> In years to come, people will look back on us today wondering what all
>> the panic about "climate change" was about, and think we were a bunch of
>> utter fuckwits :)
>>
> No Darren, that's how they will look at deniers like you
>>
>> Don't cross post Felix. There is no need for it.

Re: Petrol cars ban

<ida0sdFpaluU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=622&group=aus.computers#622

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: xenol...@optusnet.com.au (Xeno)
Newsgroups: aus.cars,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Petrol cars ban
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 13:44:11 +1000
Lines: 95
Message-ID: <ida0sdFpaluU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <id6uk4F76roU1@mid.individual.net> <s4liu2$cjb$1@dont-email.me>
<id9984Fl4mjU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me>
<id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net> <id9irnFmsdnU1@mid.individual.net>
<id9l91FnahoU1@mid.individual.net> <id9q0fFo47aU1@mid.individual.net>
<ida09rFp7h1U1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net qSVFsOpBWmBT4NUqHT6I1wTh7sdcZFhfTMm4bFPmrcQeYaj3nx
Cancel-Lock: sha1:+OxxHJF6+1DfrKvgcfZun/SXYA4=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.15; rv:78.0)
Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.9.0
In-Reply-To: <ida09rFp7h1U1@mid.individual.net>
Content-Language: en-AU
 by: Xeno - Fri, 9 Apr 2021 03:44 UTC

On 9/4/21 1:34 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>
>
> "Xeno" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
> news:id9q0fFo47aU1@mid.individual.net...
>> On 9/4/21 10:27 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 9/04/2021 9:28 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>> Noddy wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/04/2021 7:00 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>> On 8/04/2021 10:32 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If 2030 comes around and the world *isn't* ready to replace new
>>>>>>>> petrol or diesel powered cars with Electric ones it's not like
>>>>>>>> anyone is going to be executed :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **Of course. However, by 2030, buying a petrol car will be pretty
>>>>>>> much restricted to second hand cars.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Rubbish.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Don't forget: Australia doesn't have a car industry. So, despite
>>>>>>> the desperate desires of COALition politicians to keep burning as
>>>>>>> much fossil fuel as possible, new cars, after 2030 will mostly be
>>>>>>> electric, PHEV or hybrid types.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> More rubbish.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, legally binding, is not the issue. Availability will be.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's what I said in another post. However the difference between
>>>>>> you and me is that you seem to believe that the bulk of the
>>>>>> world's vehicle manufacturers will have completely switched over
>>>>>> from ICE powered vehicles to EV's, and I think that's a laughable
>>>>>> idea.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A bit over 9 years simply isn't enough time for the technology to
>>>>>> be perfected to the point where EV's are a viable alternative, or
>>>>>> the infrastructure be put in place to accommodate them. 20 years
>>>>>> perhaps, but not 9.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As I posted previously, the legislation is about VEHICLES not just
>>>>> cars. So will we see electric 'road train' trucks or b-doubles,
>>>>> etc., within 9 years? I don't think so! so obviously the
>>>>> legislation is just stupid. the need for the power and range of
>>>>> petrol powered vehicles will still exist in 2030.
>>>>
>>>> **No. Diesel trucks, farm equipment and others will still be around
>>>> for a long time. Mostly because they are very expensive and tend to
>>>> last a long time. Petrol, however, is dead.
>>>
>>> you've missed the point; which was/is that there won't be electric
>>> versions of such vehicles by 2030 able to rival the power and
>>> performance of the current ICE versions, but the legislation is
>>> assuming there will be.
>
>> There will likely be hybrid versions of trucks however. As it is,
>> railway diesels are already diesel electric, all they lack is the
>> battery storage and regen capability.
>
> Pity about the stupid recharge time with those.

What recharge time? They *don't* have batteries. Read what I wrote!
>
>> Mining trucks too are generally diesel electric
>
> Which generates the power they use using the ICE engine.

Never said they didn't.
>
>> so the concept is not new by any means - been around for as long as I
>> can recall. Just build a road truck the same way with battery and
>> regen and you're done.
>
> Nope, pity about the stupid recharge time.

Hybrids have no issue with *recharge time*.

Do you even have a clue the difference between a DE and Hybrid? I
suspect not!

<additional Rod Speed bullshit deleted>

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Re: Petrol cars ban

<ida2p3FpkpfU1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=625&group=aus.computers#625

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!news-peer.in.tum.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: rod.spee...@gmail.com (Rod Speed)
Newsgroups: aus.cars,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Petrol cars ban
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 14:16:27 +1000
Lines: 111
Message-ID: <ida2p3FpkpfU1@mid.individual.net>
References: <id6uk4F76roU1@mid.individual.net> <s4liu2$cjb$1@dont-email.me> <id9984Fl4mjU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me> <id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net> <id9irnFmsdnU1@mid.individual.net> <id9l91FnahoU1@mid.individual.net> <id9q0fFo47aU1@mid.individual.net> <ida09rFp7h1U1@mid.individual.net> <ida0sdFpaluU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
format=flowed;
charset="utf-8";
reply-type=response
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net fHE1Wj4wKpZss7+B0VUOOQ1fUBHeFtZ1yYFwP0IPFjaJEDyYU=
Cancel-Lock: sha1:crFnO+oYp02Tefed/MNL4AGCECg=
In-Reply-To: <ida0sdFpaluU1@mid.individual.net>
X-Priority: 3
X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
Importance: Normal
X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416
 by: Rod Speed - Fri, 9 Apr 2021 04:16 UTC

"Xeno" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:ida0sdFpaluU1@mid.individual.net...
> On 9/4/21 1:34 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Xeno" <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
>> news:id9q0fFo47aU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> On 9/4/21 10:27 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>> Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> On 9/04/2021 9:28 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>>> Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>> On 9/04/2021 7:00 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 8/04/2021 10:32 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If 2030 comes around and the world *isn't* ready to replace new
>>>>>>>>> petrol or diesel powered cars with Electric ones it's not like
>>>>>>>>> anyone is going to be executed :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **Of course. However, by 2030, buying a petrol car will be pretty
>>>>>>>> much restricted to second hand cars.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Rubbish.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Don't forget: Australia doesn't have a car industry. So, despite
>>>>>>>> the desperate desires of COALition politicians to keep burning as
>>>>>>>> much fossil fuel as possible, new cars, after 2030 will mostly be
>>>>>>>> electric, PHEV or hybrid types.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> More rubbish.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So, legally binding, is not the issue. Availability will be.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's what I said in another post. However the difference between
>>>>>>> you and me is that you seem to believe that the bulk of the world's
>>>>>>> vehicle manufacturers will have completely switched over from ICE
>>>>>>> powered vehicles to EV's, and I think that's a laughable idea.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A bit over 9 years simply isn't enough time for the technology to be
>>>>>>> perfected to the point where EV's are a viable alternative, or the
>>>>>>> infrastructure be put in place to accommodate them. 20 years
>>>>>>> perhaps, but not 9.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I posted previously, the legislation is about VEHICLES not just
>>>>>> cars. So will we see electric 'road train' trucks or b-doubles, etc.,
>>>>>> within 9 years? I don't think so! so obviously the legislation is
>>>>>> just stupid. the need for the power and range of petrol powered
>>>>>> vehicles will still exist in 2030.
>>>>>
>>>>> **No. Diesel trucks, farm equipment and others will still be around
>>>>> for a long time. Mostly because they are very expensive and tend to
>>>>> last a long time. Petrol, however, is dead.
>>>>
>>>> you've missed the point; which was/is that there won't be electric
>>>> versions of such vehicles by 2030 able to rival the power and
>>>> performance of the current ICE versions, but the legislation is
>>>> assuming there will be.
>>
>>> There will likely be hybrid versions of trucks however. As it is,
>>> railway diesels are already diesel electric, all they lack is the
>>> battery storage and regen capability.
>>
>> Pity about the stupid recharge time with those.

> What recharge time?

To charge what they currently lack, stupid.

> They *don't* have batteries.

But will have to to be any use without the ICE engine, stupid.

> Read what I wrote!

It stays mindless shit no matter how often its read.

>>> Mining trucks too are generally diesel electric
>>
>> Which generates the power they use using the ICE engine.
>
> Never said they didn't.

Never said you did.

>>> so the concept is not new by any means - been around for as long as I
>>> can recall. Just build a road truck the same way with battery and regen
>>> and you're done.
>>
>> Nope, pity about the stupid recharge time.
>
> Hybrids have no issue with *recharge time*.

Pity about your stupid "Just build a road truck the
same way with battery and regen and you're done."

> Do you even have a clue the difference between a DE and Hybrid?

Corse I do. But we are discussing your stupid
"Just build a road truck the same way with
battery and regen and you're done."

> <additional Rod Speed bullshit deleted>

You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.

Re: Petrol cars ban

<ida90pFqp64U1@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=627&group=aus.computers#627

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!weretis.net!feeder8.news.weretis.net!lilly.ping.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: fel...@not_here.net (Yosemite Sam)
Newsgroups: aus.cars,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Petrol cars ban
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 16:04:18 +1000
Lines: 70
Message-ID: <ida90pFqp64U1@mid.individual.net>
References: <id6uk4F76roU1@mid.individual.net> <s4liu2$cjb$1@dont-email.me>
<id9984Fl4mjU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me>
<id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net> <s4oe7o$5kb$1@dont-email.me>
<id9up4FouhuU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net Q8ha//x5Q3jhGErd9Qwj+wfeN/08C0bnORE66pJFacIryj59oa
Cancel-Lock: sha1:pLxbjq3vSS7CcOkPJE/hkytgIU0=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/60.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.7
In-Reply-To: <id9up4FouhuU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Yosemite Sam - Fri, 9 Apr 2021 06:04 UTC

Xeno wrote:
> On 9/4/21 12:30 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 9/04/2021 9:28 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> Noddy wrote:
>>
>>>> A bit over 9 years simply isn't enough time for the technology to
>>>> be perfected to the point where EV's are a viable alternative, or
>>>> the infrastructure be put in place to accommodate them. 20 years
>>>> perhaps, but not 9.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> As I posted previously, the legislation is about VEHICLES not just
>>> cars. So will we see electric 'road train' trucks or b-doubles,
>>> etc., within 9 years? I don't think so! so obviously the legislation
>>> is just stupid. the need for the power and range of petrol powered
>>> vehicles will still exist in 2030.
>>
>> Indeed it will.
>>
>>> This discussion reminds me of what 'experts' were predicting in the
>>> late 1980's early 90's about the computer industry. They claimed
>>> that by the year 2000 we would be talking to our computers and they
>>> would be talking back. yet here we are in 2021 still typing on
>>> keyboards.
>>
>> Such expert "predictions" have existed since time immemorial. If you
>> look back at some of the environmental predictions from the 1970's
>> and 80's for example you'll see that the claims were as outlandish
>> then as they are today, and if they were anything like accurate we
>> should either all be dead or living in a wasteland by now that would
>> resemble something out of the movie "waterworld".
>
> That's just your delusions kicking in Darren. No one said we would be
> in a waterworld by now.

yes they did. what about that clown on the public teat who said oceans
would rise and coastal areas would be 10ft underwater?

> What they said was that we would see much more unpredictable weather -
> for one - and that is certainly the case.
>>
>> That's the problem with such "experts". They're great at
>> understanding the science, but when it comes to making predictions
>> they're prone to sensationalist over dramatisation as that's the only
>> way they manage to get any attention, and ultimately funding.
>
> The experts, unlike frauds like you, know what they are talking about.
> A conference paper in 1983 laid out quite clearly what would happen if
> no action was taken and we are reaping the fruits of that now. It's
> just early days Darren.
>>
>> In years to come, people will look back on us today wondering what
>> all the panic about "climate change" was about, and think we were a
>> bunch of utter fuckwits :)
>>
> No Darren, that's how they will look at deniers like you
>>
>> Don't cross post Felix. There is no need for it.
>
>
>
>

--
"A mans got to know his limitations"
-Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry

Re: Petrol cars ban

<ida93mFqp64U2@mid.individual.net>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=628&group=aus.computers#628

 copy link   Newsgroups: aus.cars aus.computers
Path: i2pn2.org!i2pn.org!aioe.org!news.uzoreto.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail
From: fel...@not_here.net (Yosemite Sam)
Newsgroups: aus.cars,aus.computers
Subject: Re: Petrol cars ban
Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2021 16:05:52 +1000
Lines: 66
Message-ID: <ida93mFqp64U2@mid.individual.net>
References: <id6uk4F76roU1@mid.individual.net> <s4liu2$cjb$1@dont-email.me>
<id9984Fl4mjU1@mid.individual.net> <s4o29b$6ui$1@dont-email.me>
<id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net> <id9v4iFp0cnU1@mid.individual.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: individual.net BgXept3/Y/59OOP6WwBOEgBsKeAfjJ3LyvSwlD33H9+u0TQYK5
Cancel-Lock: sha1:ALek5IqZnSCatloRksv2JQV2P0Y=
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101
Firefox/60.0 SeaMonkey/2.53.7
In-Reply-To: <id9v4iFp0cnU1@mid.individual.net>
 by: Yosemite Sam - Fri, 9 Apr 2021 06:05 UTC

Rod Speed wrote:
>
>
> "Yosemite Sam" <felix@not_here.net> wrote in message
> news:id9hreFmn5sU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Noddy wrote:
>>> On 9/04/2021 7:00 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 8/04/2021 10:32 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>
>>>>> If 2030 comes around and the world *isn't* ready to replace new
>>>>> petrol or diesel powered cars with Electric ones it's not like
>>>>> anyone is going to be executed :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> **Of course. However, by 2030, buying a petrol car will be pretty
>>>> much restricted to second hand cars.
>>>
>>> Rubbish.
>>>
>>>> Don't forget: Australia doesn't have a car industry. So, despite
>>>> the desperate desires of COALition politicians to keep burning as
>>>> much fossil fuel as possible, new cars, after 2030 will mostly be
>>>> electric, PHEV or hybrid types.
>>>
>>> More rubbish.
>>>
>>>> So, legally binding, is not the issue. Availability will be.
>>>
>>> That's what I said in another post. However the difference between
>>> you and me is that you seem to believe that the bulk of the world's
>>> vehicle manufacturers will have completely switched over from ICE
>>> powered vehicles to EV's, and I think that's a laughable idea.
>>>
>>> A bit over 9 years simply isn't enough time for the technology to be
>>> perfected to the point where EV's are a viable alternative, or the
>>> infrastructure be put in place to accommodate them. 20 years
>>> perhaps, but not 9.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> As I posted previously, the legislation is about VEHICLES not just
>> cars. So will we see electric 'road train' trucks or b-doubles, etc.,
>> within 9 years? I don't think so! so obviously the legislation is
>> just stupid. the need for the power and range of petrol powered
>> vehicles will still exist in 2030.
>
>> This discussion reminds me of what 'experts' were predicting in the
>> late 1980's early 90's about the computer industry. They claimed that
>> by the year 2000 we would be talking to our computers and they would
>> be talking back. yet here we are in 2021 still typing on keyboards.
>
> Nope, I talk to mine and they talk back. I do all texting and emailing
> and
> messaging on the phone that way too.

you don't count. the post was not about you

> Dinosaurs like you are irrelevant.

--
"A mans got to know his limitations"
-Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry

Pages:123
server_pubkey.txt

rocksolid light 0.9.7
clearnet tor