If you hadnt heard, Deltic 55002 was out on a mainline tour on Friday,
KX to Edinburgh. Fortunately, there was an electrc 90 on the rear,
initially unused, but it was soon needed, as the Deltic went onto one
engine before Peterborough, had to stop for 50 minutes, then did
continue North, on one engine, mostly being pushed by the 90 at the
rear, losing time all the way, luckily a pathing allowance gave a 30
minute boost, and arrived only 66min late, when it had been 100+ minutes
late earlier.
Clearly not enough testing has been done on the loco if it failed
(again) on the mainline. It's a good job the 90 was there, otherwise
delays would be adding up to rather a lot, - would the Tour Operator be
paying the delay repay?

--
Remove the '+' and replace with 'plus' to reply by email

Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> wrote:
> If you hadnt heard, Deltic 55002 was out on a mainline tour on Friday,
> KX to Edinburgh. Fortunately, there was an electrc 90 on the rear,
> initially unused, but it was soon needed, as the Deltic went onto one
> engine before Peterborough, had to stop for 50 minutes, then did
> continue North, on one engine, mostly being pushed by the 90 at the
> rear, losing time all the way, luckily a pathing allowance gave a 30
> minute boost, and arrived only 66min late, when it had been 100+ minutes
> late earlier.
> Clearly not enough testing has been done on the loco if it failed
> (again) on the mainline. It's a good job the 90 was there, otherwise
> delays would be adding up to rather a lot, - would the Tour Operator be
> paying the delay repay?
>

I think it's the train operating company that's responsible for that, but
perhaps they take out insurance cover?

On Sun, 23 Apr 2023 11:13:59 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

>In message <u22nam$3njtn$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:39:01 on Sun, 23 Apr
>2023, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> remarked:
>
>>If you hadnt heard, Deltic 55002 was out on a mainline tour on Friday,
>>KX to Edinburgh.
>
>I was going to take that tour, but my wife had a hospital appointment in
>the afternoon and I was unable to go. Luckily (if that's an appropriate
>word in the circumstances) the appointment came through just before I
>was going to make the booking.
>
>Then I forgot to go to PBO in the morning to take some photos.
>
>>Fortunately, there was an electrc 90 on the rear, initially unused, but
>>it was soon needed, as the Deltic went onto one engine before
>>Peterborough, had to stop for 50 minutes, then did continue North, on
>>one engine, mostly being pushed by the 90 at the rear, losing time all
>>the way, luckily a pathing allowance gave a 30 minute boost, and
>>arrived only 66min late, when it had been 100+ minutes late earlier.
>>Clearly not enough testing has been done on the loco if it failed
>>(again) on the mainline. It's a good job the 90 was there, otherwise
>>delays would be adding up to rather a lot, - would the Tour Operator be
>>paying the delay repay?
>
>Aren't there places the train can be looped, to avoid too many delays
>mounting up?

Yes, several, but that just makes the affected train later and later. The chances are that it might well have been
scheduled to be looped once or twice anyway, as happens to many charters when running on 125mph main lines.

On 23/04/2023 08:39, Alan Lee wrote:
> If you hadnt heard, Deltic 55002 was out on a mainline tour on Friday,
> KX to Edinburgh. Fortunately, there was an electrc 90 on the rear,
> initially unused, but it was soon needed, as the Deltic went onto one
> engine before Peterborough, had to stop for 50 minutes, then did
> continue North, on one engine, mostly being pushed by the 90 at the
> rear, losing time all the way, luckily a pathing allowance gave a 30
> minute boost, and arrived only 66min late, when it had been 100+ minutes
> late earlier.
> Clearly not enough testing has been done on the loco if it failed
> (again) on the mainline. It's a good job the 90 was there, otherwise
> delays would be adding up to rather a lot, - would the Tour Operator be
> paying the delay repay?
>

I heard one of the engines lost coolant.

In message <u22nam$3njtn$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:39:01 on Sun, 23 Apr
2023, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> remarked:

>If you hadnt heard, Deltic 55002 was out on a mainline tour on Friday,
>KX to Edinburgh.

I was going to take that tour, but my wife had a hospital appointment in
the afternoon and I was unable to go. Luckily (if that's an appropriate
word in the circumstances) the appointment came through just before I
was going to make the booking.

Then I forgot to go to PBO in the morning to take some photos.

>Fortunately, there was an electrc 90 on the rear, initially unused, but
>it was soon needed, as the Deltic went onto one engine before
>Peterborough, had to stop for 50 minutes, then did continue North, on
>one engine, mostly being pushed by the 90 at the rear, losing time all
>the way, luckily a pathing allowance gave a 30 minute boost, and
>arrived only 66min late, when it had been 100+ minutes late earlier.
>Clearly not enough testing has been done on the loco if it failed
>(again) on the mainline. It's a good job the 90 was there, otherwise
>delays would be adding up to rather a lot, - would the Tour Operator be
>paying the delay repay?

Aren't there places the train can be looped, to avoid too many delays
mounting up?
--
Roland Perry

In message <utaa4ilefu48t64b123p5o4j9ct1bcd27e@4ax.com>, at 14:01:17 on
Sun, 23 Apr 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>On Sun, 23 Apr 2023 11:13:59 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <u22nam$3njtn$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:39:01 on Sun, 23 Apr
>>2023, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> remarked:
>>
>>>If you hadnt heard, Deltic 55002 was out on a mainline tour on Friday,
>>>KX to Edinburgh.
>>
>>I was going to take that tour, but my wife had a hospital appointment in
>>the afternoon and I was unable to go. Luckily (if that's an appropriate
>>word in the circumstances) the appointment came through just before I
>>was going to make the booking.
>>
>>Then I forgot to go to PBO in the morning to take some photos.
>>
>>>Fortunately, there was an electrc 90 on the rear, initially unused,
>>>but it was soon needed, as the Deltic went onto one engine before
>>>Peterborough, had to stop for 50 minutes, then did continue North, on
>>>one engine, mostly being pushed by the 90 at the rear, losing time
>>>all the way, luckily a pathing allowance gave a 30 minute boost, and
>>>arrived only 66min late, when it had been 100+ minutes late earlier.

>>> Clearly not enough testing has been done on the loco if it failed
>>>(again) on the mainline. It's a good job the 90 was there, otherwise
>>>delays would be adding up to rather a lot, - would the Tour Operator
>>>be paying the delay repay?
>>
>>Aren't there places the train can be looped, to avoid too many delays
>>mounting up?
>
>Yes, several, but that just makes the affected train later and later.

I didn't think we really cared how late *that* train was, rather than
the ones stuck behind it.

>The chances are that it might well have been scheduled to be looped
>once or twice anyway, as happens to many charters when running on
>125mph main lines.

And you can't claim "delay repay" as a charter passenger, so that must
be a reference to those others.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <utaa4ilefu48t64b123p5o4j9ct1bcd27e@4ax.com>, at 14:01:17 on
> Sun, 23 Apr 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> On Sun, 23 Apr 2023 11:13:59 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <u22nam$3njtn$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:39:01 on Sun, 23 Apr
>>> 2023, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>> If you hadnt heard, Deltic 55002 was out on a mainline tour on Friday,
>>>> KX to Edinburgh.
>>>
>>> I was going to take that tour, but my wife had a hospital appointment in
>>> the afternoon and I was unable to go. Luckily (if that's an appropriate
>>> word in the circumstances) the appointment came through just before I
>>> was going to make the booking.
>>>
>>> Then I forgot to go to PBO in the morning to take some photos.
>>>
>>>> Fortunately, there was an electrc 90 on the rear, initially unused,
>>>> but it was soon needed, as the Deltic went onto one engine before
>>>> Peterborough, had to stop for 50 minutes, then did continue North, on
>>>> one engine, mostly being pushed by the 90 at the rear, losing time
>>>> all the way, luckily a pathing allowance gave a 30 minute boost, and
>>>> arrived only 66min late, when it had been 100+ minutes late earlier.
>
>>>> Clearly not enough testing has been done on the loco if it failed
>>>> (again) on the mainline. It's a good job the 90 was there, otherwise
>>>> delays would be adding up to rather a lot, - would the Tour Operator
>>>> be paying the delay repay?
>>>
>>> Aren't there places the train can be looped, to avoid too many delays
>>> mounting up?
>>
>> Yes, several, but that just makes the affected train later and later.
>
> I didn't think we really cared how late *that* train was, rather than
> the ones stuck behind it.
>
>> The chances are that it might well have been scheduled to be looped
>> once or twice anyway, as happens to many charters when running on
>> 125mph main lines.
>
> And you can't claim "delay repay" as a charter passenger, so that must
> be a reference to those others.

if the charter train breaks down on the main line, and can't even limp to
the next loop, then it's going to delay lots of service trains.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <utaa4ilefu48t64b123p5o4j9ct1bcd27e@4ax.com>, at 14:01:17 on
>> Sun, 23 Apr 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> On Sun, 23 Apr 2023 11:13:59 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <u22nam$3njtn$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:39:01 on Sun, 23 Apr
>>>> 2023, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>> If you hadnt heard, Deltic 55002 was out on a mainline tour on Friday,
>>>>> KX to Edinburgh.
>>>>
>>>> I was going to take that tour, but my wife had a hospital appointment in
>>>> the afternoon and I was unable to go. Luckily (if that's an appropriate
>>>> word in the circumstances) the appointment came through just before I
>>>> was going to make the booking.
>>>>
>>>> Then I forgot to go to PBO in the morning to take some photos.
>>>>
>>>>> Fortunately, there was an electrc 90 on the rear, initially unused,
>>>>> but it was soon needed, as the Deltic went onto one engine before
>>>>> Peterborough, had to stop for 50 minutes, then did continue North, on
>>>>> one engine, mostly being pushed by the 90 at the rear, losing time
>>>>> all the way, luckily a pathing allowance gave a 30 minute boost, and
>>>>> arrived only 66min late, when it had been 100+ minutes late earlier.
>>
>>>>> Clearly not enough testing has been done on the loco if it failed
>>>>> (again) on the mainline. It's a good job the 90 was there, otherwise
>>>>> delays would be adding up to rather a lot, - would the Tour Operator
>>>>> be paying the delay repay?
>>>>
>>>> Aren't there places the train can be looped, to avoid too many delays
>>>> mounting up?
>>>
>>> Yes, several, but that just makes the affected train later and later.
>>
>> I didn't think we really cared how late *that* train was, rather than
>> the ones stuck behind it.
>>
>>> The chances are that it might well have been scheduled to be looped
>>> once or twice anyway, as happens to many charters when running on
>>> 125mph main lines.
>>
>> And you can't claim "delay repay" as a charter passenger, so that must
>> be a reference to those others.
>
> if the charter train breaks down on the main line, and can't even limp to
> the next loop, then it's going to delay lots of service trains.
>
>

I can’t find a reference to it at the moment, but I recall reading that
charters aren’t on the hook to pay for delays to service trains. They get
the exemption because it would otherwise finish them off.

In message <u269mo$dhbo$5@dont-email.me>, at 16:11:05 on Mon, 24 Apr
2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <utaa4ilefu48t64b123p5o4j9ct1bcd27e@4ax.com>, at 14:01:17 on
>> Sun, 23 Apr 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> On Sun, 23 Apr 2023 11:13:59 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <u22nam$3njtn$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:39:01 on Sun, 23 Apr
>>>> 2023, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>> If you hadnt heard, Deltic 55002 was out on a mainline tour on Friday,
>>>>> KX to Edinburgh.
>>>>
>>>> I was going to take that tour, but my wife had a hospital appointment in
>>>> the afternoon and I was unable to go. Luckily (if that's an appropriate
>>>> word in the circumstances) the appointment came through just before I
>>>> was going to make the booking.
>>>>
>>>> Then I forgot to go to PBO in the morning to take some photos.
>>>>
>>>>> Fortunately, there was an electrc 90 on the rear, initially unused,
>>>>> but it was soon needed, as the Deltic went onto one engine before
>>>>> Peterborough, had to stop for 50 minutes, then did continue North, on
>>>>> one engine, mostly being pushed by the 90 at the rear, losing time
>>>>> all the way, luckily a pathing allowance gave a 30 minute boost, and
>>>>> arrived only 66min late, when it had been 100+ minutes late earlier.
>>
>>>>> Clearly not enough testing has been done on the loco if it failed
>>>>> (again) on the mainline. It's a good job the 90 was there, otherwise
>>>>> delays would be adding up to rather a lot, - would the Tour Operator
>>>>> be paying the delay repay?
>>>>
>>>> Aren't there places the train can be looped, to avoid too many delays
>>>> mounting up?
>>>
>>> Yes, several, but that just makes the affected train later and later.
>>
>> I didn't think we really cared how late *that* train was, rather than
>> the ones stuck behind it.
>>
>>> The chances are that it might well have been scheduled to be looped
>>> once or twice anyway, as happens to many charters when running on
>>> 125mph main lines.
>>
>> And you can't claim "delay repay" as a charter passenger, so that must
>> be a reference to those others.
>
>if the charter train breaks down on the main line, and can't even limp to
>the next loop, then it's going to delay lots of service trains.

Hypothetically, yes, but the train in question was limping relatively
quickly.
--
Roland Perry

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <utaa4ilefu48t64b123p5o4j9ct1bcd27e@4ax.com>, at 14:01:17 on
>>> Sun, 23 Apr 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> On Sun, 23 Apr 2023 11:13:59 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <u22nam$3njtn$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:39:01 on Sun, 23 Apr
>>>>> 2023, Alan Lee <alan@darkroom.plus.com> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>> If you hadnt heard, Deltic 55002 was out on a mainline tour on Friday,
>>>>>> KX to Edinburgh.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was going to take that tour, but my wife had a hospital appointment in
>>>>> the afternoon and I was unable to go. Luckily (if that's an appropriate
>>>>> word in the circumstances) the appointment came through just before I
>>>>> was going to make the booking.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then I forgot to go to PBO in the morning to take some photos.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Fortunately, there was an electrc 90 on the rear, initially unused,
>>>>>> but it was soon needed, as the Deltic went onto one engine before
>>>>>> Peterborough, had to stop for 50 minutes, then did continue North, on
>>>>>> one engine, mostly being pushed by the 90 at the rear, losing time
>>>>>> all the way, luckily a pathing allowance gave a 30 minute boost, and
>>>>>> arrived only 66min late, when it had been 100+ minutes late earlier.
>>>
>>>>>> Clearly not enough testing has been done on the loco if it failed
>>>>>> (again) on the mainline. It's a good job the 90 was there, otherwise
>>>>>> delays would be adding up to rather a lot, - would the Tour Operator
>>>>>> be paying the delay repay?
>>>>>
>>>>> Aren't there places the train can be looped, to avoid too many delays
>>>>> mounting up?
>>>>
>>>> Yes, several, but that just makes the affected train later and later.
>>>
>>> I didn't think we really cared how late *that* train was, rather than
>>> the ones stuck behind it.
>>>
>>>> The chances are that it might well have been scheduled to be looped
>>>> once or twice anyway, as happens to many charters when running on
>>>> 125mph main lines.
>>>
>>> And you can't claim "delay repay" as a charter passenger, so that must
>>> be a reference to those others.
>>
>> if the charter train breaks down on the main line, and can't even limp to
>> the next loop, then it's going to delay lots of service trains.
>>
>>
>
> I can’t find a reference to it at the moment, but I recall reading that
> charters aren’t on the hook to pay for delays to service trains. They get
> the exemption because it would otherwise finish them off.

I thought that charter trainliability cap had been either raised or
abolished a few years ago?