It's been a mix of good and bad with the electric bike.

There have been a few odd irritations - could happen to any bike, not
just electric ones, but I've had a bit of a run of bad luck and
possible mishandling by the previous owner.

But of late, the bike seemed to have lost its sparkle. Still leaves
the Guzzi feeling a bit gutless in terms of outright torque, but I
came to the conclusion that somewhere around one third of the horses
had escaped the corral. It manifested itself as a hesitation at wide
throttle positions, not unlike an IC bike with a bad top-end misfire.

I discovered that cranking the throttle open and closed sharply could
momentarily give me full power. A bit of Googling revealed that the
throttle potentiometer on the older models - and mine just falls into
the group - is prone to dying in just such a fashion. Not great at
less than seven thousand miles on a £17K+ bike.

At least it's easily fixable. Also, it seems to be a generic part, not
Energica-specific, though this time, as a service is due and there
might still be a chance of a warranty claim, I'll probably let the
dealer sort it.

--

-Pip

On 03/12/2021 23:36, Pipl wrote:
> It's been a mix of good and bad with the electric bike.
>
> There have been a few odd irritations - could happen to any bike, not
> just electric ones, but I've had a bit of a run of bad luck and
> possible mishandling by the previous owner.
>

Watching your progress with the steed.

My major reason for not going electric (bike or car), after price[1], is
that I would be in the 2nd hand fold. And seeing your real world
experience leads me to stick with keeping older vehilces running as long
as possible until the electric stuff gets in the right place.

[1] i really am a cheapskate

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On Friday, 3 December 2021 at 23:36:16 UTC, Pipl wrote:
> It's been a mix of good and bad with the electric bike.
>
> There have been a few odd irritations - could happen to any bike, not
> just electric ones, but I've had a bit of a run of bad luck and
> possible mishandling by the previous owner.
>
> But of late, the bike seemed to have lost its sparkle. Still leaves
> the Guzzi feeling a bit gutless in terms of outright torque, but I
> came to the conclusion that somewhere around one third of the horses
> had escaped the corral. It manifested itself as a hesitation at wide
> throttle positions, not unlike an IC bike with a bad top-end misfire.
>
> I discovered that cranking the throttle open and closed sharply could
> momentarily give me full power. A bit of Googling revealed that the
> throttle potentiometer on the older models - and mine just falls into
> the group - is prone to dying in just such a fashion. Not great at
> less than seven thousand miles on a £17K+ bike.
>
> At least it's easily fixable. Also, it seems to be a generic part, not
> Energica-specific, though this time, as a service is due and there
> might still be a chance of a warranty claim, I'll probably let the
> dealer sort it.

I suppose there is a whole new career path in the maintenance of electric bikes and cars and there are some significant SNAFU opportunities.
--
Hog
2020 SD-R '89 R100RS '96 Bastard12
BOB#5 OSOS#31 COFF#22 BOTAFOT#122

Hog wrote:

> A bit of Googling revealed that the
> throttle potentiometer on the older models [...]

An actual potentiometer?
I though anything automotive would be using a non-contact throttle sensor?

Pipl wrote:

> I discovered that cranking the throttle open and closed sharply could
> momentarily give me full power. A bit of Googling revealed that the
> throttle potentiometer on the older models - and mine just falls into
> the group - is prone to dying in just such a fashion. Not great at
> less than seven thousand miles on a £17K+ bike.

I'm in a few Italian bike groups on Facebook, & a few BMW groups. Guess
which ones have all the electrical problems? I'll take Italian[1]
electrics over German[1] any day.

[1]bike

--
Krusty

On Sat, 4 Dec 2021 10:32:53 +0000, YTC#1 <bdp@ytc1-spambin.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 03/12/2021 23:36, Pipl wrote:
>> It's been a mix of good and bad with the electric bike.
>>
>> There have been a few odd irritations - could happen to any bike, not
>> just electric ones, but I've had a bit of a run of bad luck and
>> possible mishandling by the previous owner.
>>
>
>Watching your progress with the steed.
>
>My major reason for not going electric (bike or car), after price[1], is
>that I would be in the 2nd hand fold. And seeing your real world
>experience leads me to stick with keeping older vehilces running as long
>as possible until the electric stuff gets in the right place.
>
>[1] i really am a cheapskate

I tend to agree, actually. I could only afford this bike because I
inherited some money. I think my biggest concern (after noticing that
I can't spell "Italien", err, "Italain" , err "Italian") is the
colossal up-front price, and if a major component should fail then
it's going to be wallet-rapingly expensive to replace. And let's not
mention range. Oops. Just did.

Also, the motor, electronics & battery are not something that would be
as easy to DIY repair as an IC powered engine and a lot of it is
hidden from users or requires special diagnostic tools.

To be fair, hiding high voltages away is probably a Good Thing, but it
would be nice to know what my battery voltage actualls *is*. It's not
mentioned anywhere in the literature or in any of the dash modes.

On the other hand, on modern conventional bikes and cars, there is
also an increasing tendency to hide stuff from owners. Also, in terms
of the technological differences, even remotely modern IC bikes rely
on FI systems with expensive ECUs, but things like tyres, brakes,
frame, suspension etc are no different. Most of the things I've had to
deal with have been related to the rolling chassis.

--

-Pip

On 04/12/2021 13:08, Andy Burns wrote:
> Hog wrote:
>
>> A bit of Googling revealed that the
>> throttle potentiometer on the older models [...]
>
> An actual potentiometer?
> I though anything automotive would be using a non-contact throttle sensor?

Yes, I was a bit surprised at the 'p' word too in this context!
C

--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On Saturday, 4 December 2021 at 15:15:58 UTC, ChrisND @UKRM wrote:
> On 04/12/2021 13:08, Andy Burns wrote:
> > Hog wrote:
> >
> >> A bit of Googling revealed that the
> >> throttle potentiometer on the older models [...]
> >
> > An actual potentiometer?
> > I though anything automotive would be using a non-contact throttle sensor?
> Yes, I was a bit surprised at the 'p' word too in this context!
> C

I wondered if some Servisol would do the trick if it's just because there's some dust
between the wiper and the track...

(I assume it's going to be considerably different to a normal pot?)

On Sat, 4 Dec 2021 13:12:15 -0000 (UTC), "Krusty"
<dontwantany@nowhere.invalid> wrote:

>Pipl wrote:
>
>
>> I discovered that cranking the throttle open and closed sharply could
>> momentarily give me full power. A bit of Googling revealed that the
>> throttle potentiometer on the older models - and mine just falls into
>> the group - is prone to dying in just such a fashion. Not great at
>> less than seven thousand miles on a £17K+ bike.
>
>I'm in a few Italian bike groups on Facebook, & a few BMW groups. Guess
>which ones have all the electrical problems? I'll take Italian[1]
>electrics over German[1] any day.

Hey, it's a gag based on a stereotype! The Guzzi's electrics have been
pretty solid apart from the oil pressure switch, which sticks
sometimes. I really need to order a replacement. Oh! and the shite
wiring to the starter solenoid. But it worked fine up to around 50K
miles.

The car (South Korean) has had only one component (apart from
consumables, in which I include driveshaft gaiters) fail, and that was
the high pressure fuel rail pump for the FI. Made by Bosch.

--

-Pip

On Sat, 4 Dec 2021 13:08:19 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

>Hog wrote:
>
>> A bit of Googling revealed that the
>> throttle potentiometer on the older models [...]
>
>An actual potentiometer?
>I though anything automotive would be using a non-contact throttle sensor?

Apparently so. I read that they replaced these with Hall-effect
sensors. Unfortunately, not back-compatible.

--

-Pip

On Sat, 4 Dec 2021 08:17:14 -0800 (PST), Stephen Packer
<stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, 4 December 2021 at 15:15:58 UTC, ChrisND @UKRM wrote:
>> On 04/12/2021 13:08, Andy Burns wrote:
>> > Hog wrote:
>> >
>> >> A bit of Googling revealed that the
>> >> throttle potentiometer on the older models [...]
>> >
>> > An actual potentiometer?
>> > I though anything automotive would be using a non-contact throttle sensor?
>> Yes, I was a bit surprised at the 'p' word too in this context!
>> C
>
>I wondered if some Servisol would do the trick if it's just because there's some dust
>between the wiper and the track...
>
>(I assume it's going to be considerably different to a normal pot?)

Dunno, but cleaning up & lubing the wiper and track is the obvious fix
[though my car has a dual pot, so IWHT that a bike would too], except
when the vehicle in question is under warranty, which apparently, this
one is. First registered in 2021, to my surprise. I had a vague idea
that it was older than that.

--

-Pip

On 12/4/2021 2:32 AM, YTC#1 wrote:
> On 03/12/2021 23:36, Pipl wrote:
>> It's been a mix of good and bad with the electric bike.
>>
>> There have been a few odd irritations - could happen to any bike, not
>> just electric ones, but I've had a bit of a run of bad luck and
>> possible mishandling by the previous owner.
>>
>
> Watching your progress with the steed.
>
> My major reason for not going electric (bike or car), after price[1], is
> that I would be in the 2nd hand fold. And seeing your real world
> experience leads me to stick with keeping older vehilces running as long
> as possible until the electric stuff gets in the right place.
>
> [1] i really am a cheapskate
>
Yeah. I think Zero has been around longer than most electric bike
makers, and that's only 15 years. Their SR/S is prolly the best bike for
me, and it starts at $20K, then goes up considerably with baggage and
more power. And it will only go 113 miles on a charge at 70mph on the
motorway, and it takes an hour to recharge.
Things will get better.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

On 04/12/2021 19:41, Turby wrote:
> On 12/4/2021 2:32 AM, YTC#1 wrote:
>> On 03/12/2021 23:36, Pipl wrote:
>>> It's been a mix of good and bad with the electric bike.
>>>
>>> There have been a few odd irritations - could happen to any bike, not
>>> just electric ones, but I've had a bit of a run of bad luck and
>>> possible mishandling by the previous owner.
>>>
>>
>> Watching your progress with the steed.
>>
>> My major reason for not going electric (bike or car), after price[1],
>> is that I would be in the 2nd hand fold. And seeing your real world
>> experience leads me to stick with keeping older vehilces running as
>> long as possible until the electric stuff gets in the right place.
>>
>> [1] i really am a cheapskate
>>
> Yeah. I think Zero has been around longer than most electric bike

Didn't Champ do a couole of circuits on the IoM on one of those?

> makers, and that's only 15 years. Their SR/S is prolly the best bike for
> me, and it starts at $20K, then goes up considerably with baggage and
> more power. And it will only go 113 miles on a charge at 70mph on the
> motorway, and it takes an hour to recharge.
> Things will get better.
>

Looks at push bike, sees the future.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 04/12/2021 13:24, Pipl wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Dec 2021 10:32:53 +0000, YTC#1 <bdp@ytc1-spambin.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 03/12/2021 23:36, Pipl wrote:
>>> It's been a mix of good and bad with the electric bike.
>>>
>>> There have been a few odd irritations - could happen to any bike, not
>>> just electric ones, but I've had a bit of a run of bad luck and
>>> possible mishandling by the previous owner.
>>>
>>
>> Watching your progress with the steed.
>>
>> My major reason for not going electric (bike or car), after price[1], is
>> that I would be in the 2nd hand fold. And seeing your real world
>> experience leads me to stick with keeping older vehilces running as long
>> as possible until the electric stuff gets in the right place.
>>
>> [1] i really am a cheapskate
>
> I tend to agree, actually. I could only afford this bike because I
> inherited some money. I think my biggest concern (after noticing that
> I can't spell "Italien", err, "Italain" , err "Italian") is the

Can't say I noticed.

> colossal up-front price, and if a major component should fail then
> it's going to be wallet-rapingly expensive to replace. And let's not
> mention range. Oops. Just did.
>
> Also, the motor, electronics & battery are not something that would be
> as easy to DIY repair as an IC powered engine and a lot of it is
> hidden from users or requires special diagnostic tools.
<snip>

> on FI systems with expensive ECUs, but things like tyres, brakes,
> frame, suspension etc are no different. Most of the things I've had to
> deal with have been related to the rolling chassis.
>

TBH I am keener on an electic push bike (when the time comes).

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 12/4/2021 12:21 PM, YTC#1 wrote:
> On 04/12/2021 19:41, Turby wrote:
>> On 12/4/2021 2:32 AM, YTC#1 wrote:
>>> On 03/12/2021 23:36, Pipl wrote:
>>>> It's been a mix of good and bad with the electric bike.
>>>>
>>>> There have been a few odd irritations - could happen to any bike, not
>>>> just electric ones, but I've had a bit of a run of bad luck and
>>>> possible mishandling by the previous owner.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Watching your progress with the steed.
>>>
>>> My major reason for not going electric (bike or car), after price[1],
>>> is that I would be in the 2nd hand fold. And seeing your real world
>>> experience leads me to stick with keeping older vehilces running as
>>> long as possible until the electric stuff gets in the right place.
>>>
>>> [1] i really am a cheapskate
>>>
>> Yeah. I think Zero has been around longer than most electric bike
>
> Didn't Champ do a couole of circuits on the IoM on one of those?
>
Yep. I thought I had a photo of him on the bike, but apparently not. I
do have a few of the 2013 races, though, including this:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/turbster/9432119436/in/album-72157634913399071/

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

Stephen Packer wrote:

> (I assume it's going to be considerably different to a normal pot?)

Redundant magnets and coils, I would hope ...

Andy Burns wrote:

> Stephen Packer wrote:
>
>> (I assume it's going to be considerably different to a normal pot?)
>
> Redundant magnets and coils, I would hope ...

This is from a tesla, but when I had to replace the accelerator pedal on dad's
astra (removing hand control adaptations) it looked very similar.

<https://youtu.be/jrFphMKvuKw?t=269>

On 04/12/2021 21:45, Turby wrote:
> On 12/4/2021 12:21 PM, YTC#1 wrote:
>> On 04/12/2021 19:41, Turby wrote:
>>> On 12/4/2021 2:32 AM, YTC#1 wrote:
>>>> On 03/12/2021 23:36, Pipl wrote:
>>>>> It's been a mix of good and bad with the electric bike.
>>>>>
>>>>> There have been a few odd irritations - could happen to any bike, not
>>>>> just electric ones, but I've had a bit of a run of bad luck and
>>>>> possible mishandling by the previous owner.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Watching your progress with the steed.
>>>>
>>>> My major reason for not going electric (bike or car), after
>>>> price[1], is that I would be in the 2nd hand fold. And seeing your
>>>> real world experience leads me to stick with keeping older vehilces
>>>> running as long as possible until the electric stuff gets in the
>>>> right place.
>>>>
>>>> [1] i really am a cheapskate
>>>>
>>> Yeah. I think Zero has been around longer than most electric bike
>>
>> Didn't Champ do a couole of circuits on the IoM on one of those?
>>
> Yep. I thought I had a photo of him on the bike, but apparently not. I
> do have a few of the 2013 races, though, including this:
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/turbster/9432119436/in/album-72157634913399071/
>
>
>

He looks so young there :-)

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On Sat, 4 Dec 2021 20:21:20 +0000, YTC#1 <bdp@ytc1-spambin.co.uk>
wrote:

>Didn't Champ do a couole of circuits on the IoM on one of those?

Not as much as that, IIRC.

<googles> Yes, IDRC,
http://www.champ.org.uk/race/blog1.php/another-dnf-another-finish-and
--
Ace
http://www.chaletbeauroc.com/

El Sat, 04 Dec 2021 13:24:04 +0000, Pipl escribió:

> I tend to agree, actually. I could only afford this bike because I
> inherited some money. I think my biggest concern (after noticing that I
> can't spell "Italien"

German, innit. For Italy.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

On Sat, 4 Dec 2021 20:21:20 +0000, YTC#1 <bdp@ytc1-spambin.co.uk>
wrote:

>> Yeah. I think Zero has been around longer than most electric bike

>Didn't Champ do a couole of circuits on the IoM on one of those?

No.

That was a handbuilt electric bike (like the whole TT Zero class),
built on the IoM. And TT Zero bikes only ever did one lap before
recharging - the race was over a single lap, and the 2 (iirc) practice
laps were one lap each, on different days
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On Sat, 4 Dec 2021 13:45:19 -0800, Turby <xsurf@xmail.com> wrote:

>I do have a few of the 2013 races, though, including this:
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/turbster/9432119436/in/album-72157634913399071/

Ah, me and Mad Phil McMad :-)
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

I don't know, but I been told
You never slow down, you never grow old

On 06/12/2021 10:36, Champ wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Dec 2021 20:21:20 +0000, YTC#1 <bdp@ytc1-spambin.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>> Yeah. I think Zero has been around longer than most electric bike
>
>> Didn't Champ do a couole of circuits on the IoM on one of those?
>
> No.
>
> That was a handbuilt electric bike (like the whole TT Zero class),
> built on the IoM. And TT Zero bikes only ever did one lap before
> recharging - the race was over a single lap, and the 2 (iirc) practice
> laps were one lap each, on different days
>

If you made it around in a practice lap, that counts as one :-)

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 12/6/2021 2:36 AM, Champ wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Dec 2021 20:21:20 +0000, YTC#1 <bdp@ytc1-spambin.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>>> Yeah. I think Zero has been around longer than most electric bike
>
>> Didn't Champ do a couole of circuits on the IoM on one of those?
>
> No.
>
> That was a handbuilt electric bike (like the whole TT Zero class),
> built on the IoM. And TT Zero bikes only ever did one lap before
> recharging - the race was over a single lap, and the 2 (iirc) practice
> laps were one lap each, on different days
>
So it wasn't a production model, it was still a Zero, right? What's your
impression of the company having interacted with them? Good people?
Worth dealing with?

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

On 06/12/2021 11:08, Turby wrote:
> On 12/6/2021 2:36 AM, Champ wrote:
>> On Sat, 4 Dec 2021 20:21:20 +0000, YTC#1 <bdp@ytc1-spambin.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> Yeah. I think Zero has been around longer than most electric bike
>>
>>> Didn't Champ do a couole of circuits on the IoM on one of those?
>>
>> No.
>>
>> That was a handbuilt electric bike (like the whole TT Zero class),
>> built on the IoM.  And TT Zero bikes only ever did one lap before
>> recharging - the race was over a single lap, and the 2 (iirc) practice
>> laps were one lap each, on different days
>>
> So it wasn't a production model, it was still a Zero, right? What's your
> impression of the company having interacted with them? Good people?
> Worth dealing with?

"Zero" means zero emissions, not the Zero company.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TT_Zero