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aus+uk / uk.comp.sys.mac / UTF8 handling

SubjectAuthor
* UTF8 handlingTimS
+* UTF8 handlingJeff Gaines
|`- UTF8 handlingDavid Brooks
`* UTF8 handlingBruce Horrocks
 `* UTF8 handlingTimS
  `* UTF8 handlingChris Ridd
   `- UTF8 handlingLiz Tuddenham

1
UTF8 handling

<j6l00nF3g0oU1@mid.individual.net>

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From: timstrea...@greenbee.net (TimS)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: UTF8 handling
Date: 10 Feb 2022 17:23:35 GMT
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 by: TimS - Thu, 10 Feb 2022 17:23 UTC

I was looking at a Word doc that was an O-level maths paper from 1950. Someone
on uk.d-i-y posted a link to it, I forget why now. There was a dispute about
the answer to one question, which arose because a value, 52.3, was, in the
original document, written using the old-fashioned and no longer used British
decimal point, which those of us old enough will remember was not a full-stop,
but rather was a dot half way up the height of the digits.

Now, Microsoft, in this Word doc, used a 3-byte UTF8 char (U+F0D7, ef 83 97)
for the decimal point, which under Mojave in Word 16 (and Pages) renders
properly as such a decimal point.

But this UTF8 char, valid as such though it is, is in the Private Use area for
Unicode. So my question is, how was my Mac able to render it properly?

--
Tim

Re: UTF8 handling

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From: jgaines_...@yahoo.co.uk (Jeff Gaines)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: UTF8 handling
Date: 10 Feb 2022 18:50:19 GMT
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 by: Jeff Gaines - Thu, 10 Feb 2022 18:50 UTC

On 10/02/2022 in message <j6l00nF3g0oU1@mid.individual.net> TimS wrote:

>But this UTF8 char, valid as such though it is, is in the Private Use area
>for
>Unicode. So my question is, how was my Mac able to render it properly?

Because it has an O Level in rendering?

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
George Washington was a British subject until well after his 40th birthday.
(Margaret Thatcher, speech at the White House 17 December 1979)

Re: UTF8 handling

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From: 07....@scorecrow.com (Bruce Horrocks)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: UTF8 handling
Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2022 00:20:08 +0000
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 by: Bruce Horrocks - Fri, 11 Feb 2022 00:20 UTC

On 10/02/2022 17:23, TimS wrote:
> I was looking at a Word doc that was an O-level maths paper from 1950. Someone
> on uk.d-i-y posted a link to it, I forget why now. There was a dispute about
> the answer to one question, which arose because a value, 52.3, was, in the
> original document, written using the old-fashioned and no longer used British
> decimal point, which those of us old enough will remember was not a full-stop,
> but rather was a dot half way up the height of the digits.
>
> Now, Microsoft, in this Word doc, used a 3-byte UTF8 char (U+F0D7, ef 83 97)
> for the decimal point, which under Mojave in Word 16 (and Pages) renders
> properly as such a decimal point.
>
> But this UTF8 char, valid as such though it is, is in the Private Use area for
> Unicode. So my question is, how was my Mac able to render it properly?
>

Probably because a font (or a fragment) containing a glyph for the
middle dot was embedded into the document.

--
Bruce Horrocks
Surrey, England

Re: UTF8 handling

<W3iNJ.26286$TXc5.7781@fx14.ams1>

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<xn0ndynuwht2eh001@news.individual.net>
From: Davidb...@{REMOVESPAM}me.com (David Brooks)
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 by: David Brooks - Fri, 11 Feb 2022 00:27 UTC

On 10/02/2022 18:50, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 10/02/2022 in message <j6l00nF3g0oU1@mid.individual.net> TimS wrote:
>
>> But this UTF8 char, valid as such though it is, is in the Private Use
>> area for
>> Unicode. So my question is, how was my Mac able to render it properly?
>
> Because it has an O Level in rendering?

Hey! I've got one of those!

Look 5•5 or 9•7 or 45•2 for example! :-D

Re: UTF8 handling

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From: timstrea...@greenbee.net (TimS)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: UTF8 handling
Date: 11 Feb 2022 08:54:06 GMT
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 by: TimS - Fri, 11 Feb 2022 08:54 UTC

On 11 Feb 2022 at 00:20:08 GMT, Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:

> On 10/02/2022 17:23, TimS wrote:
>> I was looking at a Word doc that was an O-level maths paper from 1950. Someone
>> on uk.d-i-y posted a link to it, I forget why now. There was a dispute about
>> the answer to one question, which arose because a value, 52.3, was, in the
>> original document, written using the old-fashioned and no longer used British
>> decimal point, which those of us old enough will remember was not a full-stop,
>> but rather was a dot half way up the height of the digits.
>>
>> Now, Microsoft, in this Word doc, used a 3-byte UTF8 char (U+F0D7, ef 83 97)
>> for the decimal point, which under Mojave in Word 16 (and Pages) renders
>> properly as such a decimal point.
>>
>> But this UTF8 char, valid as such though it is, is in the Private Use area for
>> Unicode. So my question is, how was my Mac able to render it properly?
>>
>
> Probably because a font (or a fragment) containing a glyph for the
> middle dot was embedded into the document.

Odd when they could just have used:

U+00B7 C2 B7 MIDDLE DOT

--
Tim

Re: UTF8 handling

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From: chrisr...@mac.com (Chris Ridd)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: UTF8 handling
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2022 09:13:33 +0000
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 by: Chris Ridd - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 09:13 UTC

On 11/02/2022 08:54, TimS wrote:
> On 11 Feb 2022 at 00:20:08 GMT, Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10/02/2022 17:23, TimS wrote:
>>> I was looking at a Word doc that was an O-level maths paper from 1950. Someone
>>> on uk.d-i-y posted a link to it, I forget why now. There was a dispute about
>>> the answer to one question, which arose because a value, 52.3, was, in the
>>> original document, written using the old-fashioned and no longer used British
>>> decimal point, which those of us old enough will remember was not a full-stop,
>>> but rather was a dot half way up the height of the digits.
>>>
>>> Now, Microsoft, in this Word doc, used a 3-byte UTF8 char (U+F0D7, ef 83 97)
>>> for the decimal point, which under Mojave in Word 16 (and Pages) renders
>>> properly as such a decimal point.
>>>
>>> But this UTF8 char, valid as such though it is, is in the Private Use area for
>>> Unicode. So my question is, how was my Mac able to render it properly?
>>>
>>
>> Probably because a font (or a fragment) containing a glyph for the
>> middle dot was embedded into the document.
>
> Odd when they could just have used:
>
> U+00B7 C2 B7 MIDDLE DOT

I agree! Apparently this is generically an Interpunct
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpunct and it seems the Lancet still
uses the vertically centred dot.

--
Chris

Re: UTF8 handling

<1pnb9c9.10nii8f1xlh20uN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>

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From: liz...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.sys.mac
Subject: Re: UTF8 handling
Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2022 10:44:40 +0000
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 by: Liz Tuddenham - Sun, 13 Feb 2022 10:44 UTC

Chris Ridd <chrisridd@mac.com> wrote:

> On 11/02/2022 08:54, TimS wrote:
> > On 11 Feb 2022 at 00:20:08 GMT, Bruce Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On 10/02/2022 17:23, TimS wrote:
> >>> I was looking at a Word doc that was an O-level maths paper from 1950.
> >>> Someone on uk.d-i-y posted a link to it, I forget why now. There was a
> >>> dispute about the answer to one question, which arose because a value,
> >>> 52.3, was, in the original document, written using the old-fashioned
> >>> and no longer used British decimal point, which those of us old enough
> >>> will remember was not a full-stop, but rather was a dot half way up
> >>> the height of the digits.
> >>>
> >>> Now, Microsoft, in this Word doc, used a 3-byte UTF8 char (U+F0D7, ef
> >>> 83 97) for the decimal point, which under Mojave in Word 16 (and
> >>> Pages) renders properly as such a decimal point.
> >>>
> >>> But this UTF8 char, valid as such though it is, is in the Private Use
> >>> area for Unicode. So my question is, how was my Mac able to render it
> >>> properly?
> >>>
> >>
> >> Probably because a font (or a fragment) containing a glyph for the
> >> middle dot was embedded into the document.
> >
> > Odd when they could just have used:
> >
> > U+00B7 C2 B7 MIDDLE DOT
>
> I agree! Apparently this is generically an Interpunct
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpunct and it seems the Lancet still
> uses the vertically centred dot.

By a curious coincidence, I was discussing this with the editor of a
magazine a couple of weeks ago. He had no idea that there was a
difference between a full stop and a decimal point and was unable to
find the key combination for it in Georgia font on Serif Page Plus.
(Georgia on a Mac definitely does have it: ALT-SHIFT-9 .)

Eventually he settled for a full stop shifted upwards by a couple of
points.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

1
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