In message <u6961i$3h89p$5@dont-email.me>, at 07:32:02 on Tue, 13 Jun
2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <u67tvj$379k6$5@dont-email.me>, at 20:08:19 on Mon, 12 Jun
>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 09/06/2023 06:54, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <poSdnYVRi98ajR_5nZ2dnZfqnPqdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
>>>>> 18:31:50 on Thu, 8 Jun 2023, Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid>
>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>> On 08/06/2023 08:01, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <kfmcnZ68zbQuauf5nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
>>>>>>> 09:20:03 on Sat, 3 Jun 2023, Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid>
>>>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On 02/06/2023 16:25, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <zNacnc21ns7hq-v5nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
>>>>>>>>> 18:46:35 on Tue, 30 May 2023, Arthur Figgis
>>>>>>>>> <afiggis@example.invalid>  remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> On 29/05/2023 06:23, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In message <7kSdndKBTO0EBO75nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@brightview.co.uk>,
>>>>>>>>>>> at  19:12:40 on Sun, 28 May 2023, Arthur Figgis
>>>>>>>>>>> <afiggis@example.invalid>  remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 28/05/2023 14:15, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> One of the things East-West Rail has consistently done is keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>> revising  the claimed Oxford-Cambridge timing upwards. But it
>>>>>>>>>>>>> was  always a hoax,  because who is going to commute from one
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the  other  (even if  it were to take only an hour). Plus of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> course  half  an hour  each end  to complete the door-to-door
>>>>>>>>>>>>> element.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> It hasn't been an Oxford to Cambridge "intercity" project for years
>>>>>>>>>>>> ,
>>>>>>>>>>>  Except to begin with it was, with much resting on the concept of
>>>>>>>>>>> re-creating the "Varsity Line".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When was "to begin with"? I started taking an interest in the late
>>>>>>>>>> 1990s, and I assume there were ideas before then...
>>>>>>>>>  Still the marketing headline in 2014.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Which marketing headline?
>>>>>>>  "Varsity Line", and with the implication it was ever going to be
>>>>>>> much  use end-to-end commuting.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The 5 uses of "Varsity Line" on the EWR website are all explicitly
>>>>>> historical.
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you looking at the pre-2014 version of the website?
>>>>
>>>> I doubt it, and I doubt many people would be. Is this the uk.railway
>>>> thing where all projects have to be announced fully-formed and can then
>>>> never be changed no matter what?
>>>
>>> Not at all. It's purely a Roland thing.
>>
>> The issue here is people announcing stuff like it's a done deal. HS3
>> station at Bradford, anyone?
>>
>> <https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/23015721.prime-minister-
>> commits-new-bradford-northern-powerhouse-rail-station/>
>
>No mention of the long-dropped HS3 moniker in that story. The fact that it
>might/wouldhave a Bradford stop means it's not, by definition, a high speed
>line.

That's only a report by a not very well briefed journalist. You'd need
to have read the hundreds of pages of published plans over the years to
fully understand the history. But you haven't, so you don't.

>> But now I expect north Bedford is affected by planning blight, just like
>> some villages west of East Midlands Airport were, when floated as a
>> possible location for an HS2 hub (the other abandoned candidate was
>> underneath the airport itself).
>
>So you must welcome the decision to have no HS2 eastern hub?

The Toton Hub would have been a significant force in a wide range of
industrial regeneration and transport projects, it's so much more than
just an HS2 station.

But without the station, and the high-speed connectivity in the
Birmingham-Yorkshire corridor, it's doubtful the rest of it can proceed
very far in the foreseeable future.

While that doesn't directly affect me either way at the moment, I'm sure
there's widespread disappointment locally.

ps Having the hub at Toton would have been the exact opposite of
"blight".
--
Roland Perry

On Fri, 16 Jun 2023 16:17:11 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

>In message <u6961i$3h89p$5@dont-email.me>, at 07:32:02 on Tue, 13 Jun
>2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <u67tvj$379k6$5@dont-email.me>, at 20:08:19 on Mon, 12 Jun
>>> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 09/06/2023 06:54, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <poSdnYVRi98ajR_5nZ2dnZfqnPqdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
>>>>>> 18:31:50 on Thu, 8 Jun 2023, Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid>
>>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>>> On 08/06/2023 08:01, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <kfmcnZ68zbQuauf5nZ2dnZfqnPadnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
>>>>>>>> 09:20:03 on Sat, 3 Jun 2023, Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid>
>>>>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> On 02/06/2023 16:25, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In message <zNacnc21ns7hq-v5nZ2dnZfqn_SdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
>>>>>>>>>> 18:46:35 on Tue, 30 May 2023, Arthur Figgis
>>>>>>>>>> <afiggis@example.invalid>  remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 29/05/2023 06:23, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> In message <7kSdndKBTO0EBO75nZ2dnZfqnPednZ2d@brightview.co.uk>,
>>>>>>>>>>>> at  19:12:40 on Sun, 28 May 2023, Arthur Figgis
>>>>>>>>>>>> <afiggis@example.invalid>  remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 28/05/2023 14:15, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> One of the things East-West Rail has consistently done is keep
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> revising  the claimed Oxford-Cambridge timing upwards. But it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was  always a hoax,  because who is going to commute from one
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the  other  (even if  it were to take only an hour). Plus of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> course  half  an hour  each end  to complete the door-to-door
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> element.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It hasn't been an Oxford to Cambridge "intercity" project for years
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ,
>>>>>>>>>>>>  Except to begin with it was, with much resting on the concept of
>>>>>>>>>>>> re-creating the "Varsity Line".
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> When was "to begin with"? I started taking an interest in the late
>>>>>>>>>>> 1990s, and I assume there were ideas before then...
>>>>>>>>>>  Still the marketing headline in 2014.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Which marketing headline?
>>>>>>>>  "Varsity Line", and with the implication it was ever going to be
>>>>>>>> much  use end-to-end commuting.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The 5 uses of "Varsity Line" on the EWR website are all explicitly
>>>>>>> historical.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are you looking at the pre-2014 version of the website?
>>>>>
>>>>> I doubt it, and I doubt many people would be. Is this the uk.railway
>>>>> thing where all projects have to be announced fully-formed and can then
>>>>> never be changed no matter what?
>>>>
>>>> Not at all. It's purely a Roland thing.
>>>
>>> The issue here is people announcing stuff like it's a done deal. HS3
>>> station at Bradford, anyone?
>>>
>>> <https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/23015721.prime-minister-
>>> commits-new-bradford-northern-powerhouse-rail-station/>
>>
>>No mention of the long-dropped HS3 moniker in that story. The fact that it
>>might/wouldhave a Bradford stop means it's not, by definition, a high speed
>>line.
>
>That's only a report by a not very well briefed journalist. You'd need
>to have read the hundreds of pages of published plans over the years to
>fully understand the history. But you haven't, so you don't.

I don't know what mythical documents you've been reading, but there's never been a formal plan for the route, just
various aspirations from interested parties who didn't have to fund it. There's never been a funded, detailed plan, so
you can't have read hundreds of pages about it. You've just been beguiled by wish lists.

It was never going to be a complete a new line, just a set of enhancements to the old Victorian routes. And, of course,
there was never any intention of constructing what in railway terminology (which you obviously don't know) would be
called a 'high speed line', just a speeded-up classic line. It's been discussed here many times over the years, but you
simply won't listen.

The reality will just be the electrification of the existing TPE routes, with some new chords and track enhancements.