In message <u6i0nt$s7mq$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:56:45 on Fri, 16 Jun
2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Fri, 16 Jun 2023 16:26:31 +0100
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>In message <u6hu2n$rt6r$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:11:19 on Fri, 16 Jun
>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>On Fri, 16 Jun 2023 07:35:28 +0100
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>I've got one of those too (in the sense I happened to be in the Old
>>>>Market Square the day after an incident, and took a photo of the
>>>>trajectory.
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.perry.co.uk/images/Nottingham-tram-tracks.jpg>
>>>>
>>>>Is it a co-incidence the kerb opposite Starbucks is exactly the
>>>>track-gauge from the closest metals, or is that deliberate?
>>>
>>>No idea, but looks like they dragged it across the street to rerail it on
>>>the opposite line.
>>
>>Nope. The front of the train made it over the points, doing a rare
>>reversal maneuver, but then the rear bogie didn't make the turn but
>>'mounted the tarmac', and might have mounted the pavement on the left
>>had it not been for a combination of the kerb and the lefthandmost
>>rail.
>
>Either the driver inadvertantly floored it or he fell asleep at the wheel
>because I can't think of another reason it travelled that far before the
>brakes were applied.

The majority of tram 5-car articulated tram went down the correct
tracks, probably at about 10mph (like I said, it was reversal, so it
would have been from a standing start). But the final bogie was derailed
and started skidding around on the road surface. It's unlikely the
driver noticed immediately, because he'd have been looking ahead, at the
people crossing the road outside Starbucks, not looking backwards.

There were no passengers on board, but there might have been a gripper.
--
Roland Perry

On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 07:15:31 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>In message <j41p8i1oc4sl438ab2v6l85gcotgcq4l3v@4ax.com>, at 16:50:49 on
>>I take it you didn't photograph the switch rails or was there nothing
>>obviously wrong/suspect with them ?
>
>I took several photos, but that on best showed the way the tram had
>fishtailed after the derailment. If there had been anything physically
>wrong with the points, they would have fixed them by the day after.

Very sharp curves there, I suppose derailment is to be expected now and
then.

>I've found an almost identical, but contemporaneous, picture here:
>
> <https://nottstv.com/services-disrupted-after-tram-derails-at-old-
>market-square/>

"skidded off the tracks"? Obviously that hack is angling for a job at a tabloid.

In message <u6jt89$16gjl$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:09:29 on Sat, 17 Jun
2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 07:15:31 +0100
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>In message <j41p8i1oc4sl438ab2v6l85gcotgcq4l3v@4ax.com>, at 16:50:49 on
>>>I take it you didn't photograph the switch rails or was there nothing
>>>obviously wrong/suspect with them ?
>>
>>I took several photos, but that on best showed the way the tram had
>>fishtailed after the derailment. If there had been anything physically
>>wrong with the points, they would have fixed them by the day after.
>
>Very sharp curves there, I suppose derailment is to be expected now and
>then.
The rams go round numerous curves as sharp as thatwithout incident.

Why are you still in denial that this incident was caused by a rare use
of the cross-over to reverse a tram.

>>I've found an almost identical, but contemporaneous, picture here:
>>
>> <https://nottstv.com/services-disrupted-after-tram-derails-at-old-
>>market-square/>
>
>"skidded off the tracks"? Obviously that hack is angling for a job at a
>tabloid.

Would you prefer "leapt off the tracks", because that what it did. Then
"skidded across the road surface" which is what caused scratches I was
photographing.
--
Roland Perry

On 17/06/2023 11:48, Roland Perry wrote:
> Why are you still in denial that this incident was caused by a rare use
> of the cross-over to reverse a tram.

We had a talk from a retired train driver a few years ago. They used to
derail quite often but just got a crowbar out and put the engine back on
the track without any fuss. I bet it was never reported so did not
appear in any statistics.

On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 11:48:11 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>In message <u6jt89$16gjl$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:09:29 on Sat, 17 Jun
>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 07:15:31 +0100
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>In message <j41p8i1oc4sl438ab2v6l85gcotgcq4l3v@4ax.com>, at 16:50:49 on
>>>>I take it you didn't photograph the switch rails or was there nothing
>>>>obviously wrong/suspect with them ?
>>>
>>>I took several photos, but that on best showed the way the tram had
>>>fishtailed after the derailment. If there had been anything physically
>>>wrong with the points, they would have fixed them by the day after.
>>
>>Very sharp curves there, I suppose derailment is to be expected now and
>>then.
>The rams go round numerous curves as sharp as thatwithout incident.
>
>Why are you still in denial that this incident was caused by a rare use
>of the cross-over to reverse a tram.

Where did I say that? If you have a sharp curve occasionally something will
come off it if perhaps there's debris in the groove or an issue with a wheel.
Why are you in denial about that?

>>"skidded off the tracks"? Obviously that hack is angling for a job at a
>>tabloid.
>
>Would you prefer "leapt off the tracks", because that what it did. Then

Derailed is the usual term. Unless the wheels were locked before it came
off the rails it didn't skid anywhere.

>"skidded across the road surface" which is what caused scratches I was
>photographing.

If it had "skidded" across the road the lines made by the flanges wouldn't
be very thin, it would be a large skid mark. Looks like the wheels did what
wheels do and rolled along the road.

In message <u6kb4l$184po$4@dont-email.me>, at 14:06:29 on Sat, 17 Jun
2023, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>On 17/06/2023 11:48, Roland Perry wrote:

>> Why are you still in denial that this incident was caused by a rare use
>> of the cross-over to reverse a tram.
>
>We had a talk from a retired train driver a few years ago. They used
>to derail quite often but just got a crowbar out and put the engine
>back on the track without any fuss. I bet it was never reported so did
>not appear in any statistics.

What does that have to do with a *tram* making a rare reversing move
(catered for by having the crossover in place, even if not normally
used).

And I expect they did use something like crowbars to re-rail the tram,
but there was fuss because scores of people saw it happen in front of
them, and thousands had their journeys disrupted that day.
--
Roland Perry

In message <u6kj1i$19d8k$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:21:22 on Sat, 17 Jun
2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 11:48:11 +0100
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>In message <u6jt89$16gjl$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:09:29 on Sat, 17 Jun
>>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 07:15:31 +0100
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>In message <j41p8i1oc4sl438ab2v6l85gcotgcq4l3v@4ax.com>, at 16:50:49 on
>>>>>I take it you didn't photograph the switch rails or was there nothing
>>>>>obviously wrong/suspect with them ?
>>>>
>>>>I took several photos, but that on best showed the way the tram had
>>>>fishtailed after the derailment. If there had been anything physically
>>>>wrong with the points, they would have fixed them by the day after.
>>>
>>>Very sharp curves there, I suppose derailment is to be expected now and
>>>then.
>>The rams go round numerous curves as sharp as thatwithout incident.
>>
>>Why are you still in denial that this incident was caused by a rare use
>>of the cross-over to reverse a tram.
>
>Where did I say that? If you have a sharp curve occasionally something will
>come off it if perhaps there's debris in the groove or an issue with a wheel.
>Why are you in denial about that?

Perhaps you can be more specific what you mean by the "sharp curve": is
it the angle of the crossover which in on otherwise pretty straight
track, or the utterly irrelevant sharp bend in from of Starbucks?

>>>"skidded off the tracks"? Obviously that hack is angling for a job at a
>>>tabloid.
>>
>>Would you prefer "leapt off the tracks", because that what it did. Then
>
>Derailed is the usual term. Unless the wheels were locked before it came
>off the rails it didn't skid anywhere.

The wheels skidded on in the road surface, producing the marks in the
photographs.

>>"skidded across the road surface" which is what caused scratches I was
>>photographing.
>
>If it had "skidded" across the road the lines made by the flanges wouldn't
>be very thin, it would be a large skid mark. Looks like the wheels did what
>wheels do and rolled along the road.

Tram wheels usually roll on tracks, not tarmac.
--
Roland Perry

On Sat, 17 Jun 2023 18:16:02 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>In message <u6kj1i$19d8k$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:21:22 on Sat, 17 Jun
>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>Why are you still in denial that this incident was caused by a rare use
>>>of the cross-over to reverse a tram.
>>
>>Where did I say that? If you have a sharp curve occasionally something will
>>come off it if perhaps there's debris in the groove or an issue with a wheel.
>>Why are you in denial about that?
>
>Perhaps you can be more specific what you mean by the "sharp curve": is

A curve thats sharp. HTH.

>>Derailed is the usual term. Unless the wheels were locked before it came
>>off the rails it didn't skid anywhere.
>
>The wheels skidded on in the road surface, producing the marks in the
>photographs.

Looks like the wheels just rolled to me unless something else made those
perfectly straight scratches in the surface.

>>If it had "skidded" across the road the lines made by the flanges wouldn't
>>be very thin, it would be a large skid mark. Looks like the wheels did what
>>wheels do and rolled along the road.
>
>Tram wheels usually roll on tracks, not tarmac.

Wheels are wheels. Having a flange doesn't stop it turning on a road.

In message <u6n6qj$1mf9u$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:11:15 on Sun, 18 Jun
2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:

>>>>Why are you still in denial that this incident was caused by a rare use
>>>>of the cross-over to reverse a tram.
>>>
>>>Where did I say that? If you have a sharp curve occasionally something will
>>>come off it if perhaps there's debris in the groove or an issue with a wheel.
>>>Why are you in denial about that?
>>
>>Perhaps you can be more specific what you mean by the "sharp curve": is
>
>A curve thats sharp. HTH.

OK, so the only one in the picture is off in the distance, and nothing
to do with the cause of the derailment, which was the crossover the
photographer is standing on.
--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 19 Jun 2023 06:33:50 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>In message <u6n6qj$1mf9u$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:11:15 on Sun, 18 Jun
>2023, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>
>>>>>Why are you still in denial that this incident was caused by a rare use
>>>>>of the cross-over to reverse a tram.
>>>>
>>>>Where did I say that? If you have a sharp curve occasionally something will
>>>>come off it if perhaps there's debris in the groove or an issue with a
>wheel.
>>>>Why are you in denial about that?
>>>
>>>Perhaps you can be more specific what you mean by the "sharp curve": is
>>
>>A curve thats sharp. HTH.
>
>OK, so the only one in the picture is off in the distance, and nothing
>to do with the cause of the derailment, which was the crossover the
>photographer is standing on.

Fair enough, I thought it reversed out of the platform.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> [snip]
> The family moved to Haverfordwest in west Wales and Valdo’s mother,
> Celeste, a registered nurse, began working at the
> town’s Withyshaw Hospital.
> [snip]

Withybush, surely. Not connected, as far as I know, with Wythenshawe or
Withington, both of which happen to have hospitals.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> [snip]
>> The family moved to Haverfordwest in west Wales and Valdo’s mother,
>> Celeste, a registered nurse, began working at the
>> town’s Withyshaw Hospital.
>> [snip]
>
> Withybush, surely. Not connected, as far as I know, with Wythenshawe or
> Withington, both of which happen to have hospitals.
>

Yes, you're right.

I see that the Telegraph hasn't corrected its online story i quoted from.