Road and rail travel disrupted as heatwave goes on

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65877296

Network Rail said the West Highland Line could be closed near Roybridge
until Thursday due to flood damage.

Odd I did not notice any heavy rain here but it can be very localised in
hilly country.

On 13/06/2023 17:25, MB wrote:
> > Road and rail travel disrupted as heatwave goes on
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65877296
>
> Network Rail said the West Highland Line could be closed near Roybridge
> until Thursday due to flood damage.
>
>
>
>
> Odd I did not notice any heavy rain here but it can be very localised in
> hilly country.

The storms everywhere in the country over the last week have often been very
localised, as thunder storms often are.

Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
> On 13/06/2023 17:25, MB wrote:
>>> Road and rail travel disrupted as heatwave goes on
>>
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65877296
>>
>> Network Rail said the West Highland Line could be closed near Roybridge
>> until Thursday due to flood damage.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Odd I did not notice any heavy rain here but it can be very localised in
>> hilly country.
>
> The storms everywhere in the country over the last week have often been very
> localised, as thunder storms often are.

Not just Roybridge, either. Roland will be able to tell us when it will
actually get fixed. Get the popcorn in.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
> Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
>> On 13/06/2023 17:25, MB wrote:
>>>> Road and rail travel disrupted as heatwave goes on
>>>
>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65877296
>>>
>>> Network Rail said the West Highland Line could be closed near Roybridge
>>> until Thursday due to flood damage.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Odd I did not notice any heavy rain here but it can be very localised in
>>> hilly country.
>>
>> The storms everywhere in the country over the last week have often been very
>> localised, as thunder storms often are.
>
> Not just Roybridge, either. Roland will be able to tell us when it will
> actually get fixed. Get the popcorn in.

Supporting documentation:
<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65903066>

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

In message <u6ektb$c8lf$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:16:27 on Thu, 15 Jun
2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
>> On 13/06/2023 17:25, MB wrote:
>>>> Road and rail travel disrupted as heatwave goes on
>>>
>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65877296
>>>
>>> Network Rail said the West Highland Line could be closed near Roybridge
>>> until Thursday due to flood damage.
>>>
>>> Odd I did not notice any heavy rain here but it can be very localised in
>>> hilly country.
>>
>> The storms everywhere in the country over the last week have often been very
>> localised, as thunder storms often are.
>
>Not just Roybridge, either. Roland will be able to tell us when it will
>actually get fixed.

Not on this occasion, I have little interest in that line.

(I was going to take a trip on it his summer, but the unreliability of
the railways in general, what with strikes, means I don't think I'll
bother.)
--
Roland Perry

In message <u6essi$d6lc$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:32:35 on Thu, 15 Jun
2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
>>> On 13/06/2023 17:25, MB wrote:
>>>>> Road and rail travel disrupted as heatwave goes on
>>>>
>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65877296
>>>>
>>>> Network Rail said the West Highland Line could be closed near Roybridge
>>>> until Thursday

Which Thursday: the one early next week?

>>>>due to flood damage.
>>>>
>>>> Odd I did not notice any heavy rain here but it can be very localised in
>>>> hilly country.
>>>
>>> The storms everywhere in the country over the last week have often been very
>>> localised, as thunder storms often are.
>>
>> Not just Roybridge, either. Roland will be able to tell us when it will
>> actually get fixed. Get the popcorn in.
>
>Supporting documentation:
><https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65903066>

Three sites plus Roybridge? It's all a bit muddled.

And what's "early next week" - Tuesday?
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <u6ektb$c8lf$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:16:27 on Thu, 15 Jun
> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
>>> On 13/06/2023 17:25, MB wrote:
>>>>> Road and rail travel disrupted as heatwave goes on
>>>>
>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65877296
>>>>
>>>> Network Rail said the West Highland Line could be closed near Roybridge
>>>> until Thursday due to flood damage.
>>>>
>>>> Odd I did not notice any heavy rain here but it can be very localised in
>>>> hilly country.
>>>
>>> The storms everywhere in the country over the last week have often been very
>>> localised, as thunder storms often are.
>>
>> Not just Roybridge, either. Roland will be able to tell us when it will
>> actually get fixed.
>
> Not on this occasion, I have little interest in that line.

But still you always seem to have an opinion on the multiplier to apply to
NR’s estimates. I hadn’t realised it only applies to lines you have an
interest in.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

In message <u6ppnh$23evj$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:46:09 on Mon, 19 Jun
2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <u6ektb$c8lf$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:16:27 on Thu, 15 Jun
>> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 13/06/2023 17:25, MB wrote:
>>>>>> Road and rail travel disrupted as heatwave goes on
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65877296
>>>>>
>>>>> Network Rail said the West Highland Line could be closed near Roybridge
>>>>> until Thursday due to flood damage.
>>>>>
>>>>> Odd I did not notice any heavy rain here but it can be very localised in
>>>>> hilly country.
>>>>
>>>> The storms everywhere in the country over the last week have often
>>>>been very localised, as thunder storms often are.
>>>
>>> Not just Roybridge, either. Roland will be able to tell us when it will
>>> actually get fixed.
>>
>> Not on this occasion, I have little interest in that line.
>
>But still you always seem to have an opinion on the multiplier to apply to
>NR’s estimates. I hadn’t realised it only applies to lines you have an
>interest in.

That's my "law", that you should as a minimum double their initial
estimate.

Just like when I was in a queue at a call centre on Friday and they said
I was 5th in the queue and should expect to wait 20 minutes. It was
answered after 45 minutes.

Such rules-of-thumb are quite separate from subsequently examining a
particular local situation to come up with a competitive armchair
estimate of the time-to-fix might be. And as I rely upon more than
merely observations from an armchair, I will only comment on those
scenarios where I have some more specific/relevant local/engineering
knowledge.

For example, I have concluded that the blue-chip financial services
provider call centre department I was trying to contact had just one
operative on duty Friday afternoon for that subset of enquiry, and the
original estimate was based on a long term average of the line with
perhaps normally two operatives dealing with one caller per four
minutes.

As it happens, after 20 minutes I was told I was now 4th in the queue,
so whoever they had been talking to when I arrived had just consumed at
least 20 minutes of their time.

The fact I was then answered 25 minutes later implies Messrs 4,3,2,1 in
the original queue had been dealt with in an average of six minutes (or
maybe some had hung up). My call then took about 15 minutes, during
which they decided my query was above their salary level, and they'd
need to get someone to call me back on Monday.

I was happy I'd passed their security checks and they fully understood
the nature of my enquiry, and that every detail I mentioned about my
enquiry was confirmed by what they could see was on their screen.

Did they call me back on Monday? Of course not, only a fool would expect
that; and applying my 2x rule I will only call them again on Wednesday,
should they fail to contact me today, Tuesday.

My complaint dates to an incident I only recently discovered happened in
February, so if I can get it sorted in the next week, that's probably a
useful result. The downside is I probably can't claim the hours of my
time sorting this out, against them.

ObRail: But then delay-repay only compensates you for the time you were
late home on the train, not the time filling in the claim forms.
--
Roland Perry

On 20/06/2023 07:55, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <u6ppnh$23evj$1@dont-email.me>, at 14:46:09 on Mon, 19 Jun
> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <u6ektb$c8lf$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:16:27 on Thu, 15 Jun
>>> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> Roger Lynn <usenet@rilynn.me.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 13/06/2023 17:25, MB wrote:
>>>>>>> Road and rail travel disrupted as heatwave goes on
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65877296
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Network Rail said the West Highland Line could be closed near
>>>>>> Roybridge
>>>>>> until Thursday due to flood damage.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Odd I did not notice any heavy rain here but it can be very
>>>>>> localised in
>>>>>> hilly country.
>>>>>
>>>>> The storms everywhere in the country over the last week have often
>>>>> been very  localised, as thunder storms often are.
>>>>
>>>> Not just Roybridge, either.  Roland will be able to tell us when it
>>>> will
>>>> actually get fixed.
>>>
>>> Not on this occasion, I have little interest in that line.
>>
>> But still you always seem to have an opinion on the multiplier to
>> apply to
>> NR’s estimates.  I hadn’t realised it only applies to lines you have an
>> interest in.
>
> That's my "law", that you should as a minimum double their initial
> estimate.
>
> Just like when I was in a queue at a call centre on Friday and they said
> I was 5th in the queue and should expect to wait 20 minutes. It was
> answered after 45 minutes.
>
> Such rules-of-thumb are quite separate from subsequently examining a
> particular local situation to come up with a competitive armchair
> estimate of the time-to-fix might be. And as I rely upon more than
> merely observations from an armchair, I will only comment on those
> scenarios where I have some more specific/relevant local/engineering
> knowledge.
>
> For example, I have concluded that the blue-chip financial services
> provider call centre department I was trying to contact had just one
> operative on duty Friday afternoon for that subset of enquiry, and the
> original estimate was based on a long term average of the line with
> perhaps normally two operatives dealing with one caller per four minutes.
>
> As it happens, after 20 minutes I was told I was now 4th in the queue,
> so whoever they had been talking to when I arrived had just consumed at
> least 20 minutes of their time.
>
> The fact I was then answered 25 minutes later implies Messrs 4,3,2,1 in
> the original queue had been dealt with in an average of six minutes (or
> maybe some had hung up). My call then took about 15 minutes, during
> which they decided my query was above their salary level, and they'd
> need to get someone to call me back on Monday.
My GP surgery has two queues. The first one at their telecommunications
provider then a second on their internal system. You cannot imagine how
annoying it is to go from first in the queue up to forth or fifth.
>
> I was happy I'd passed their security checks and they fully understood
> the nature of my enquiry, and that every detail I mentioned about my
> enquiry was confirmed by what they could see was on their screen.
>
> Did they call me back on Monday? Of course not, only a fool would expect
> that; and applying my 2x rule I will only call them again on Wednesday,
> should they fail to contact me today, Tuesday.
>
> My complaint dates to an incident I only recently discovered happened in
> February, so if I can get it sorted in the next week, that's probably a
> useful result. The downside is I probably can't claim the hours of my
> time sorting this out, against them.
>
> ObRail: But then delay-repay only compensates you for the time you were
> late home on the train, not the time filling in the claim forms.

On 13/06/2023 17:25, MB wrote:
> Road and rail travel disrupted as heatwave goes on
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65877296
>
> Network Rail said the West Highland Line could be closed near Roybridge
> until Thursday due to flood damage.

"Flood-damaged West Highland Line reopens after repairs"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65950276

In message <u6s4j1$2egmt$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:45 on Tue, 20 Jun
2023, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>On 13/06/2023 17:25, MB wrote:

>> Road and rail travel disrupted as heatwave goes on
>>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65877296
>>Network Rail said the West Highland Line could be closed near
>>Roybridge until Thursday due to flood damage.
>
>"Flood-damaged West Highland Line reopens after repairs"
>
>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65950276

It's all a bit muddled because they refer to days of the week, not
dates, but is it the case that:

The damage happened Monday 12th
It was initially predicted to be fixed by Thursday 15th
Was actually fixed by Monday 19th?

Happy to receive any comments.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <u6s4j1$2egmt$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:45 on Tue, 20 Jun
> 2023, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>> On 13/06/2023 17:25, MB wrote:
>
>>> Road and rail travel disrupted as heatwave goes on
>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65877296
>>> Network Rail said the West Highland Line could be closed near
>>> Roybridge until Thursday due to flood damage.
>>
>> "Flood-damaged West Highland Line reopens after repairs"
>>
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65950276
>
> It's all a bit muddled because they refer to days of the week, not
> dates, but is it the case that:
>
> The damage happened Monday 12th
> It was initially predicted to be fixed by Thursday 15th
> Was actually fixed by Monday 19th?
>
> Happy to receive any comments.

Network Rail press release Wednesday 14th June

https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/work-underway-to-repair-flood-damaged-west-highland-line

Note the comments about waiting for flood waters to subside and timescales
being in exact.

“Engineers will be working around-the-clock to repair the West Highland
Line after severe flooding on Monday night caused significant damage
between Roy Bridge and Tulloch.

The line will remain closed between Fort William and Crianlarich until
early next week while engineers work to carry-out repairs at three sites.

The repairs will include rebuilding a section of the line where over 400
tons of material has been washed away from beneath the track. Engineers
will need to rebuild the embankment beneath the line and relay the track
before the railway can reopen.

Due to the complexity of the repairs and the need to wait for the flooding
to subside before beginning work, exact timescales for the reopening of the
line cannot be confirmed at this time.

Liam Sumpter, Network Rail Scotland route director, said: “Flash-flooding
has caused significant damage to the railway and we are working hard to
repair and reopen the line as quickly as we can for our customers.

“The damage to the line is extensive and it will take several days for our
engineers to complete repairs.

“We understand the difficulties this incident will cause for our customers
and local residents and will reopen the line as soon as we can.”

In message <u6shah$2fnd1$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:41:05 on Tue, 20 Jun
2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <u6s4j1$2egmt$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:03:45 on Tue, 20 Jun
>> 2023, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>> On 13/06/2023 17:25, MB wrote:
>>
>>>> Road and rail travel disrupted as heatwave goes on
>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65877296
>>>> Network Rail said the West Highland Line could be closed near
>>>> Roybridge until Thursday due to flood damage.
>>>
>>> "Flood-damaged West Highland Line reopens after repairs"
>>>
>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65950276
>>
>> It's all a bit muddled because they refer to days of the week, not
>> dates, but is it the case that:
>>
>> The damage happened Monday 12th
>> It was initially predicted to be fixed by Thursday 15th
>> Was actually fixed by Monday 19th?
>>
>> Happy to receive any comments.
>
>Network Rail press release Wednesday 14th June
>
>https://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/news/work-underway-to-repair-fl
>ood-damaged-west-highland-line
>
>Note the comments about waiting for flood waters to subside and timescales
>being in exact.
>
>“Engineers will be working around-the-clock to repair the West Highland
>Line after severe flooding on Monday night caused significant damage
>between Roy Bridge and Tulloch.
>
>The line will remain closed between Fort William and Crianlarich until
>early next week while engineers work to carry-out repairs at three sites.

The original "Thursday" estimate was made on the 13th, for the damage at
Roybridge, which was perhaps singled out from the bunch because it was
the most severe of the three?

The press release on the 14th is the second estimate, and accurately
reflects the "double the number you first thought of" rule.

Note that I'm not criticising the speed at which the engineers work, but
more the management of expectations immediately after the incident.
--
Roland Perry