https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/67ab7b78-1a8a-11ee-8198-bf96b6365670?shareToken=b1d7ff781af48c467471fa126de7b18d

On 05/07/2023 07:40, Recliner wrote:
> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/67ab7b78-1a8a-11ee-8198-bf96b6365670?shareToken=b1d7ff781af48c467471fa126de7b18d

This is going to be a problem for those of us who claim compensation
with Rail Travel Vouchers as they can only be used "at any station or
rail-appointed Travel Agent".

Surely the obligation to sell the cheapest fares and all journeys should
be added to the ticket machines before ticket offices close? This would
have to include Ranger and Rover tickets.

On Wed, 5 Jul 2023 06:40:39 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/67ab7b78-1a8a-11ee-8198-bf96b6365670?shareToken=b1d7ff781af48c467471fa126de7b18d
>
Just another step in the Government's dismantling of the railways.

On 05/07/2023 07:40, Recliner wrote:
> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/67ab7b78-1a8a-11ee-8198-bf96b6365670?shareToken=b1d7ff781af48c467471fa126de7b18d

It's going to be a problem for anyone who, like me, can't use a bank card for contactless travel (a) because their local station doesn't support it, or (b) they have a Railcard but the system doesn't support discounts. Or, as applies to me, both.

Today we bought tickets online for collection at a ticket machine at the station. But for the second time in a week the ticket machines refused to connect to the server - actually I only tried three different machines, one of them twice, but my guess is that all had the same problem. There was a young lady in GTR uniform lurking who, I suppose, is one of these "travel assistants" who are supposed to be replacing ticket offices. But she had no ticket machine and was, frankly, no help whatever, in fact she just delayed things as I had the faint hope that she might be able to help but she couldn't. Fortunately the queue at the single ticket window of the still-operating ticket office was short enough that we could go there and get our tickets printed. But this is the second time this has happened in a week, and about the fourth time this year.

I suppose if this happens when the ticket offices are all closed we shall have to bluff our way past all ticket barriers showing the purchase confirmation on paper or the screen of a smart-phone. But will TfL staff all over London be willing to accept these in the case that we have bought a London 1-day Travelcard? I have my doubts. My guess is that it won't just be the 12% who still regularly buy tickets at the ticket office who will have frequent problems. Goodness knows what the railway authorities will do then.

--
Clive Page

I suppose like car parks, they will go cashless to save costs then
charge more for using the card!

In message <kgm8s9F4v0uU1@mid.individual.net>, at 23:24:09 on Wed, 5 Jul
2023, Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> remarked:
>On 05/07/2023 07:40, Recliner wrote:
>> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/67ab7b78-1a8a-11ee-8198-bf96b63656
>>70?shareToken=b1d7ff781af48c467471fa126de7b18d
>
>It's going to be a problem for anyone who, like me, can't use a bank
>card for contactless travel (a) because their local station doesn't
>support it, or (b) they have a Railcard but the system doesn't support
>discounts. Or, as applies to me, both.
>
>Today we bought tickets online for collection at a ticket machine at
>the station. But for the second time in a week the ticket machines
>refused to connect to the server - actually I only tried three
>different machines, one of them twice, but my guess is that all had the
>same problem.

Certainly I've had recurring problems with all the machines at specific
stations "going offline" making it impossible to collect pre-purchased
ones.

>There was a young lady in GTR uniform lurking who, I suppose, is one of
>these "travel assistants" who are supposed to be replacing ticket
>offices. But she had no ticket machine and was, frankly, no help
>whatever, in fact she just delayed things as I had the faint hope that
>she might be able to help but she couldn't. Fortunately the queue at
>the single ticket window of the still-operating ticket office was short
>enough that we could go there and get our tickets printed. But this is
>the second time this has happened in a week, and about the fourth time
>this year.

Luton Parkway?

>I suppose if this happens when the ticket offices are all closed we
>shall have to bluff our way past all ticket barriers showing the
>purchase confirmation on paper or the screen of a smart-phone. But
>will TfL staff all over London be willing to accept these in the case
>that we have bought a London 1-day Travelcard? I have my doubts.

See this photo taken at an Elizabeth Line station recently:

http://www.perry.co.uk/images/No-Barcode-Tickets.jpg

Which suggests barrier staff will accept a phone screen ticket, but the
barriers won't (rather they'll start a CCC trip IFF you have a payment
card live on the phone, presumably).

Genuine question: can one buy a barcode ODTC? I bought a paper one the
other week, because that's a lot easier to get out of the pocket than a
phone, and there were two of us travelling together and what if we only
had one phone between us?

>My guess is that it won't just be the 12% who still regularly buy
>tickets at the ticket office who will have frequent problems.

Actually, the statistic they publish says 12% of tickets, not tickets
bought by 12% of some undefined population.

>Goodness knows what the railway authorities will do then.

See my comments below, about this presumably cut-n-paste press release
from Greater Anglia in the local online paper:

"Ely railway station

The proposals would see all ticket office windows close at Ely. Staff
would be moved to other areas of the station.

Since being rebuilt over the Spring, it only has one window. So that's
"all of one window" to close. The only "other area" is adjacent to the
newly fitted barriers where staff apparently picked for their surly
nature currently appear to be under instructions to let anyone through
who makes eye contact with them. Engaging them in conversation is
futile.

A spokesperson for Greater Anglia said: "Customers would still be
able to buy tickets from the ticket machine,

Sadly, you can't buy a platform ticket from the machines (I've asked).
Probably can't buy AP tickets either - which are available now up to 15
minutes before departure for some flows.

online (via our website and app), or from the conductor onboard,

Whoa! I'll stop you there. On one hand only XC and EMR trains (not GTR),
and I think only some[**] GA trains, have conductors, and on the other
hand south of Ely (towards Cambridge is a "Compulsory Ticket Zone" where
it's said you MUST have a ticket before boarding the train). Pre-Covid
many trains in the rush hour between Ely and Cambridge would be
crush-loaded, and the conductor has no chance on what's quite a short
trip.

Would the conductor sell an AP after departure, on the basis the ticket
machines wouldn't, before?

and colleagues would still be available at the station to help
customers at certain times (as outlined below).

Actually, the current ticket office isn't open those hours, the staff
take coffee and lunch breaks, during which it's unmanned.

Ticketing assistance would also be available directly from staff in
Greater Anglia's Customer Contact Centre in Norwich, contactable via
the ticket machine (24 hours a day).

"Customer Information Centres at London Liverpool Street, Cambridge,
Norwich, and Peterborough stations would sell a full range of
products, as well as providing help with more complex transactions."

Might be fun trying to book a reservation for a cycle on a Britpass,
over the ticket machine intercom.

Proposed station staffing hours would be from 5am to 1am on weekdays,
up from the current ticket office hours of 6am to 8pm.

Sounds like the aforementioned barrier staff.

[**] On Norwich/Stansted and Peterborough/Ipswich trains, not Liverpool
St.
--
Roland Perry

In message <u85lot$ranf$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:08:28 on Thu, 6 Jul
2023, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>I suppose like car parks, they will go cashless to save costs then
>charge more for using the card!

My objection is that they are externalising the non-monetary costs of
paying, to the public.

It would take perhaps 20 seconds to pay by coin, two minutes by card on
site, but eight to ten minutes via one of the Balkansied apps[1] which
we are supposed to subscribe to on our phones.

Some machines went through a transitional period where one could
pay-by-SMS, but that also typically took ten minutes.

[1] Noting that having installed a bunch of these on my phone, setting
up accounts, under protest; one has recently started to nag me about
cancelling my account because I haven't used it for a while.

"Yes, dear, that's because by happenstance I haven't need to park
somewhere that ill-advisedly decided to commission your particular
rather broken paying by phone app, rather than someone else's probably
just as broken app".

My Amex card says "Member since 1979", and they don't threaten to cancel
it if I don't use it for a year or two, "Because of Covid" if nothing
else.

ObRail: but I did set up Amex-Pay on my phone, which was accepted at
everywhere apart from GN's TVMs.

Never did get to the bottom of that (the closest I got was them
parotting "We accept all major credit cards", and wouldn't be drawn on
either Amex plastic being major, or whether they also accept anyone's
on-phone virtual cards), before Amex withdrew the app and said "Register
your card with Google-Pay instead".

Old saying: You can tell who the pioneers are, they are the ones laying
dead on the ground with arrows in their back.
--
Roland Perry

On 05/07/2023 23:24, Clive Page wrote:
> On 05/07/2023 07:40, Recliner wrote:
>> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/67ab7b78-1a8a-11ee-8198-bf96b6365670?shareToken=b1d7ff781af48c467471fa126de7b18d
>
> It's going to be a problem for anyone who, like me, can't use a bank
> card for contactless travel (a) because their local station doesn't
> support it, or (b) they have a Railcard but the system doesn't support
> discounts.   Or, as applies to me, both.
>
> Today we bought tickets online for collection at a ticket machine at the
> station.  But for the second time in a week the ticket machines refused
> to connect to the server - actually I only tried three different
> machines, one of them twice, but my guess is that all had the same
> problem.  There was a young lady in GTR uniform lurking who, I suppose,
> is one of these "travel assistants" who are supposed to be replacing
> ticket offices.  But she had no ticket machine and was, frankly, no help
> whatever, in fact she just delayed things as I had the faint hope that
> she might be able to help but she couldn't.  Fortunately the queue at
> the single ticket window of the still-operating ticket office was short
> enough that we could go there and get our tickets printed.  But this is
> the second time this has happened in a week, and about the fourth time
> this year.
>
> I suppose if this happens when the ticket offices are all closed we
> shall have to bluff our way past all ticket barriers showing the
> purchase confirmation on paper or the screen of a smart-phone.  But will
> TfL staff all over London be willing to accept these in the case that we
> have bought a London 1-day Travelcard?   I have my doubts.  My guess is
> that it won't just be the 12% who still regularly buy tickets at the
> ticket office who will have frequent problems.  Goodness knows what the
> railway authorities will do then.
>
I'm very lucky that my local railway station (Cogan) does not have
barriers so I can board a service when I'm unable to collect my tickets
or purchase the correct ticket from the machines.

There used to be a ticket office within the Cardiff Central railway
station barriers where it was possible to collect tickets when the
machine(s) at Cogan were off line but this has been replaced by booths
with portable machines so it's now impossible to collect pre-booked
tickets from them. This means you have to blag your way through the
barriers to collect tickets.

I make sure I have a copy of the acknowledgement email with me to prove
to the on train ticket collector.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:

>
> My Amex card says "Member since 1979", and they don't threaten to cancel
> it if I don't use it for a year or two, "Because of Covid" if nothing
> else.

Don’t you have to pay an annual fee for an Amex card or is the base Green
one available without?

I would think that they are reasonably happy to take that and treat as a
transaction that keeps it alive.

GH

On 06/07/2023 12:40, Marland wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>> My Amex card says "Member since 1979", and they don't threaten to cancel
>> it if I don't use it for a year or two, "Because of Covid" if nothing
>> else.
>
> Don’t you have to pay an annual fee for an Amex card or is the base Green
> one available without?

I don't pay a fee for mine. For me it has the advantage of being able
to manage it on line unlike my Lloyds card. I would like to get an RBS
one so I can manage it online but now that my closest branch is in
Farnborough I would have to endure their call centre to sort it out.

>
> I would think that they are reasonably happy to take that and treat as a
> transaction that keeps it alive.
>
> GH

On Thu, 6 Jul 2023 12:12:09 +0100, Coffee
<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:

>I'm very lucky that my local railway station (Cogan) does not have
>barriers so I can board a service when I'm unable to collect my tickets
>or purchase the correct ticket from the machines.
>
>There used to be a ticket office within the Cardiff Central railway
>station barriers where it was possible to collect tickets when the
>machine(s) at Cogan were off line but this has been replaced by booths
>with portable machines so it's now impossible to collect pre-booked
>tickets from them. This means you have to blag your way through the
>barriers to collect tickets.
>
>I make sure I have a copy of the acknowledgement email with me to prove
>to the on train ticket collector.

The proposal only covers England so no change in Wales and Scotland
(for now). At first I assumed this would end my parents (both mid 80s)
travel by train because they always go to the ticket office at
Shrewsbury days before any trip to sort their tickets. Fortunately I
forgotten that Shrewsbury is TfW station so isn't affected!

Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 06/07/2023 12:40, Marland wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> My Amex card says "Member since 1979", and they don't threaten to cancel
>>> it if I don't use it for a year or two, "Because of Covid" if nothing
>>> else.
>>
>> Don’t you have to pay an annual fee for an Amex card or is the base Green
>> one available without?
>
> I don't pay a fee for mine. For me it has the advantage of being able
> to manage it on line unlike my Lloyds card. I would like to get an RBS
> one so I can manage it online but now that my closest branch is in
> Farnborough I would have to endure their call centre to sort it out.
>
>>
>> I would think that they are reasonably happy to take that and treat as a
>> transaction that keeps it alive.
>>
>> GH
>
>

I can manage my Lloyds credit card online.

According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>It would take perhaps 20 seconds to pay by coin, two minutes by card on
>site, but eight to ten minutes via one of the Balkansied apps[1] which
>we are supposed to subscribe to on our phones.

Perhaps we're not the target market.

FWIW when I was in Bristol last year I managed to buy a ticket on my
phone at one of the small stations between the time I saw the train
coming around the curve and the time the doors opened, and got my senior
railcard discount. I use the TfW app because it uses Google Pay. Too
many of the other apps cannot deal with my UK credit card with a US
billing address, but that is rather a niche issue.

--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
> According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>> It would take perhaps 20 seconds to pay by coin, two minutes by card on
>> site, but eight to ten minutes via one of the Balkansied apps[1] which
>> we are supposed to subscribe to on our phones.
>
> Perhaps we're not the target market.
>
> FWIW when I was in Bristol last year I managed to buy a ticket on my
> phone at one of the small stations between the time I saw the train
> coming around the curve and the time the doors opened, and got my senior
> railcard discount. I use the TfW app because it uses Google Pay. Too
> many of the other apps cannot deal with my UK credit card with a US
> billing address, but that is rather a niche issue.
>

Once you’ve set up the payment apps it takes a few moments to pay. There
aren’t as many in mainstream use as Roland likes to make out. If people put
as much effort into sorting themselves out rather than expending that
effort in complaining….

On 06/07/2023 17:52, Tweed wrote:
> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 06/07/2023 12:40, Marland wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> My Amex card says "Member since 1979", and they don't threaten to cancel
>>>> it if I don't use it for a year or two, "Because of Covid" if nothing
>>>> else.
>>>
>>> Don’t you have to pay an annual fee for an Amex card or is the base Green
>>> one available without?
>>
>> I don't pay a fee for mine. For me it has the advantage of being able
>> to manage it on line unlike my Lloyds card. I would like to get an RBS
>> one so I can manage it online but now that my closest branch is in
>> Farnborough I would have to endure their call centre to sort it out.
>>
>>>
>>> I would think that they are reasonably happy to take that and treat as a
>>> transaction that keeps it alive.
>>>
>>> GH
>>
>>
>
> I can manage my Lloyds credit card online.
>
Mines too old.

Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 06/07/2023 17:52, Tweed wrote:
>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 06/07/2023 12:40, Marland wrote:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> My Amex card says "Member since 1979", and they don't threaten to cancel
>>>>> it if I don't use it for a year or two, "Because of Covid" if nothing
>>>>> else.
>>>>
>>>> Don’t you have to pay an annual fee for an Amex card or is the base Green
>>>> one available without?
>>>
>>> I don't pay a fee for mine. For me it has the advantage of being able
>>> to manage it on line unlike my Lloyds card. I would like to get an RBS
>>> one so I can manage it online but now that my closest branch is in
>>> Farnborough I would have to endure their call centre to sort it out.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would think that they are reasonably happy to take that and treat as a
>>>> transaction that keeps it alive.
>>>>
>>>> GH
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I can manage my Lloyds credit card online.
>>
> Mines too old.
>

How does the age of the card come into it?

On Thu, 6 Jul 2023 09:01:48 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:

>In message <u85lot$ranf$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:08:28 on Thu, 6 Jul
>2023, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>I suppose like car parks, they will go cashless to save costs then
>>charge more for using the card!
>
>My objection is that they are externalising the non-monetary costs of
>paying, to the public.
>
>It would take perhaps 20 seconds to pay by coin, two minutes by card on
>site, but eight to ten minutes via one of the Balkansied apps[1] which
>we are supposed to subscribe to on our phones.
>
Why does it take longer to pay by card than by cash? I find the
opposite.

On Thu, 6 Jul 2023 17:29:34 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

>John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>> According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>>> It would take perhaps 20 seconds to pay by coin, two minutes by card on
>>> site, but eight to ten minutes via one of the Balkansied apps[1] which
>>> we are supposed to subscribe to on our phones.
>>
>> Perhaps we're not the target market.
>>
>> FWIW when I was in Bristol last year I managed to buy a ticket on my
>> phone at one of the small stations between the time I saw the train
>> coming around the curve and the time the doors opened, and got my senior
>> railcard discount. I use the TfW app because it uses Google Pay. Too
>> many of the other apps cannot deal with my UK credit card with a US
>> billing address, but that is rather a niche issue.
>>
>
>Once you’ve set up the payment apps it takes a few moments to pay. There
>aren’t as many in mainstream use as Roland likes to make out. If people put
>as much effort into sorting themselves out rather than expending that
>effort in complaining….

On this matter Roland does have a point. Payment apps seem to offer no
benefit to the car park user when compared to direct card payment or
cash other, perhaps from the ability to top up.. And setting the app
up, especially when in a hurry, in an unfamiliar car park, on a sunny
day when you can't read your phone screen very well, is time consuming
to say the least.

Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Jul 2023 17:29:34 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>> According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>>>> It would take perhaps 20 seconds to pay by coin, two minutes by card on
>>>> site, but eight to ten minutes via one of the Balkansied apps[1] which
>>>> we are supposed to subscribe to on our phones.
>>>
>>> Perhaps we're not the target market.
>>>
>>> FWIW when I was in Bristol last year I managed to buy a ticket on my
>>> phone at one of the small stations between the time I saw the train
>>> coming around the curve and the time the doors opened, and got my senior
>>> railcard discount. I use the TfW app because it uses Google Pay. Too
>>> many of the other apps cannot deal with my UK credit card with a US
>>> billing address, but that is rather a niche issue.
>>>
>>
>> Once you’ve set up the payment apps it takes a few moments to pay. There
>> aren’t as many in mainstream use as Roland likes to make out. If people put
>> as much effort into sorting themselves out rather than expending that
>> effort in complaining….
>
> On this matter Roland does have a point. Payment apps seem to offer no
> benefit to the car park user when compared to direct card payment or
> cash other, perhaps from the ability to top up.. And setting the app
> up, especially when in a hurry, in an unfamiliar car park, on a sunny
> day when you can't read your phone screen very well, is time consuming
> to say the least.
>

There aren’t that many Apps in actual use, so yes there is an overhead to
setting a new one up. But once it’s done it’s done and available for future
use. The advantages I find are not joining a queue by the machine as others
fiddle about, not having to enter car registration on some machines, not
having to have coins (not all machines accept cards). The car parks I use
in north Northumberland always have a queue by the machine.

On Thu, 6 Jul 2023 17:10:11 -0000 (UTC)
John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>>It would take perhaps 20 seconds to pay by coin, two minutes by card on
>>site, but eight to ten minutes via one of the Balkansied apps[1] which
>>we are supposed to subscribe to on our phones.
>
>Perhaps we're not the target market.
>
>FWIW when I was in Bristol last year I managed to buy a ticket on my
>phone at one of the small stations between the time I saw the train
>coming around the curve and the time the doors opened, and got my senior

You're not including the time it took to find that app, download it, set up
your details etc. All to pay for car parking. Its a joke. Cash still has
valid use cases and parking meters are one of them.

On 07/07/2023 07:13, Ken wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Jul 2023 09:01:48 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In message <u85lot$ranf$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:08:28 on Thu, 6 Jul
>> 2023, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>> I suppose like car parks, they will go cashless to save costs then
>>> charge more for using the card!
>>
>> My objection is that they are externalising the non-monetary costs of
>> paying, to the public.
>>
>> It would take perhaps 20 seconds to pay by coin, two minutes by card on
>> site, but eight to ten minutes via one of the Balkansied apps[1] which
>> we are supposed to subscribe to on our phones.
>>
> Why does it take longer to pay by card than by cash? I find the
> opposite.

Because in Roland's case he has to find which one of 27 obsolete phones
has the un-upated app on it, set up the app, then figure out how to
actually pay the money using a charge card only valid in Micronesia.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 07/07/2023 07:18, Ken wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Jul 2023 17:29:34 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>> According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>>>> It would take perhaps 20 seconds to pay by coin, two minutes by card on
>>>> site, but eight to ten minutes via one of the Balkansied apps[1] which
>>>> we are supposed to subscribe to on our phones.
>>>
>>> Perhaps we're not the target market.
>>>
>>> FWIW when I was in Bristol last year I managed to buy a ticket on my
>>> phone at one of the small stations between the time I saw the train
>>> coming around the curve and the time the doors opened, and got my senior
>>> railcard discount. I use the TfW app because it uses Google Pay. Too
>>> many of the other apps cannot deal with my UK credit card with a US
>>> billing address, but that is rather a niche issue.
>>>
>>
>> Once you’ve set up the payment apps it takes a few moments to pay. There
>> aren’t as many in mainstream use as Roland likes to make out. If people put
>> as much effort into sorting themselves out rather than expending that
>> effort in complaining….
>
> On this matter Roland does have a point. Payment apps seem to offer no
> benefit to the car park user when compared to direct card payment or
> cash other, perhaps from the ability to top up.. And setting the app
> up, especially when in a hurry, in an unfamiliar car park, on a sunny
> day when you can't read your phone screen very well, is time consuming
> to say the least.

The parking signs in Cardiff amuse me. They say you can pay by app but
not which one!

The £2.30 rail fare is cheaper than the parking charges anyway.

On Fri, 07 Jul 2023 06:39:45 +0000, Tweed wrote:

> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 6 Jul 2023 17:29:34 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>> According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>>>>> It would take perhaps 20 seconds to pay by coin, two minutes by card
>>>>> on site, but eight to ten minutes via one of the Balkansied apps[1]
>>>>> which we are supposed to subscribe to on our phones.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps we're not the target market.
>>>>
>>>> FWIW when I was in Bristol last year I managed to buy a ticket on my
>>>> phone at one of the small stations between the time I saw the train
>>>> coming around the curve and the time the doors opened, and got my
>>>> senior railcard discount. I use the TfW app because it uses Google
>>>> Pay. Too many of the other apps cannot deal with my UK credit card
>>>> with a US billing address, but that is rather a niche issue.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Once you’ve set up the payment apps it takes a few moments to pay.
>>> There aren’t as many in mainstream use as Roland likes to make out. If
>>> people put as much effort into sorting themselves out rather than
>>> expending that effort in complaining….
>>
>> On this matter Roland does have a point. Payment apps seem to offer no
>> benefit to the car park user when compared to direct card payment or
>> cash other, perhaps from the ability to top up.. And setting the app
>> up, especially when in a hurry, in an unfamiliar car park, on a sunny
>> day when you can't read your phone screen very well, is time consuming
>> to say the least.
>>
>>
> There aren’t that many Apps in actual use, so yes there is an overhead
> to setting a new one up. But once it’s done it’s done and available for
> future use. The advantages I find are not joining a queue by the machine
> as others fiddle about, not having to enter car registration on some
> machines, not having to have coins (not all machines accept cards). The
> car parks I use in north Northumberland always have a queue by the
> machine.

A further advantage, at least with the Ringgo parking app used here in MK,
is that if you are held up you can top-up the parking remotely. It will
alert when the time's about to expire and offer top-up.

That allows you to pay what you expect initially and not have to worry
about being late back, so saving money overall.

nib

On Fri, 7 Jul 2023 09:27:46 +0100
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 07/07/2023 07:13, Ken wrote:
>> On Thu, 6 Jul 2023 09:01:48 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <u85lot$ranf$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:08:28 on Thu, 6 Jul
>>> 2023, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>>> I suppose like car parks, they will go cashless to save costs then
>>>> charge more for using the card!
>>>
>>> My objection is that they are externalising the non-monetary costs of
>>> paying, to the public.
>>>
>>> It would take perhaps 20 seconds to pay by coin, two minutes by card on
>>> site, but eight to ten minutes via one of the Balkansied apps[1] which
>>> we are supposed to subscribe to on our phones.
>>>
>> Why does it take longer to pay by card than by cash? I find the
>> opposite.
>
>Because in Roland's case he has to find which one of 27 obsolete phones
>has the un-upated app on it, set up the app, then figure out how to

Why would you need an updated app for paying for a car park? What are they
doing to add to it, video streaming telling you you're an idiot for not
knowing you had to rub your stomach and pat your head before it works?

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 6 Jul 2023 17:29:34 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
>> <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> wrote:
>>>> According to Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>:
>>>>> It would take perhaps 20 seconds to pay by coin, two minutes by card on
>>>>> site, but eight to ten minutes via one of the Balkansied apps[1] which
>>>>> we are supposed to subscribe to on our phones.
>>>>
>>>> Perhaps we're not the target market.
>>>>
>>>> FWIW when I was in Bristol last year I managed to buy a ticket on my
>>>> phone at one of the small stations between the time I saw the train
>>>> coming around the curve and the time the doors opened, and got my senior
>>>> railcard discount. I use the TfW app because it uses Google Pay. Too
>>>> many of the other apps cannot deal with my UK credit card with a US
>>>> billing address, but that is rather a niche issue.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Once you’ve set up the payment apps it takes a few moments to pay. There
>>> aren’t as many in mainstream use as Roland likes to make out. If people put
>>> as much effort into sorting themselves out rather than expending that
>>> effort in complaining….
>>
>> On this matter Roland does have a point. Payment apps seem to offer no
>> benefit to the car park user when compared to direct card payment or
>> cash other, perhaps from the ability to top up.. And setting the app
>> up, especially when in a hurry, in an unfamiliar car park, on a sunny
>> day when you can't read your phone screen very well, is time consuming
>> to say the least.
>>
>
> There aren’t that many Apps in actual use, so yes there is an overhead to
> setting a new one up. But once it’s done it’s done and available for future
> use. The advantages I find are not joining a queue by the machine as others
> fiddle about, not having to enter car registration on some machines, not
> having to have coins (not all machines accept cards). The car parks I use
> in north Northumberland always have a queue by the machine.
>
>

Plus you can pay for parking while you walk away, or sit in your car; plus
no need to walk to the machine (inevitably on the far side of the car park)
and back to your car.

Anna Noyd-Dryver