In message <y0APhzFRDOqgFwvq@ku.gro.lloiff>, at 11:45:37 on Sat, 22 May
2021, Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> remarked:

>I don't watch Dave, but I have seen trailers for the programme that has
>just finished. I suspect that the production staff budget for UKTV is
>rather low.

I expect it's zero. Unlike Netflix they'll be buying it all in, not
making any programmes themselves.
--
Roland Perry

On 22/05/2021 12:08, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <y0APhzFRDOqgFwvq@ku.gro.lloiff>, at 11:45:37 on Sat, 22 May
> 2021, Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> remarked:
>
>> I don't watch Dave, but I have seen trailers for the programme that
>> has just finished.  I suspect that the production staff budget for
>> UKTV is rather low.
>
> I expect it's zero. Unlike Netflix they'll be buying it all in, not
> making any programmes themselves.

Not quite zero, somebody has to search through the production catalogues
and choose the cheapest programmes.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <y0APhzFRDOqgFwvq@ku.gro.lloiff>, at 11:45:37 on Sat, 22 May
> 2021, Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> remarked:
>
>> I don't watch Dave, but I have seen trailers for the programme that has
>> just finished. I suspect that the production staff budget for UKTV is
>> rather low.
>
> I expect it's zero. Unlike Netflix they'll be buying it all in, not
> making any programmes themselves.

They mention a production management team that can be contacted by aspiring
programme producers in their download pack for them,

https://corporate.uktv.co.uk/commissioning/article/uktv-producer-pack/

Even if it is just a very small team I doubt they work for nothing.

GH

In message <s8apse$dd$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:28:14 on Sat, 22 May 2021,
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 22/05/2021 12:08, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <y0APhzFRDOqgFwvq@ku.gro.lloiff>, at 11:45:37 on Sat, 22
>>May 2021, Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> remarked:
>>
>>> I don't watch Dave, but I have seen trailers for the programme that
>>>has just finished.  I suspect that the production staff budget for
>>>UKTV is rather low.

>> I expect it's zero. Unlike Netflix they'll be buying it all in, not
>>making any programmes themselves.
>
>Not quite zero, somebody has to search through the production
>catalogues and choose the cheapest programmes.

I wouldn't call them 'production staff'. That's the marketing
department.
--
Roland Perry

In message <igs9q8FrraU1@mid.individual.net>, at 11:55:52 on Sat, 22 May
2021, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <y0APhzFRDOqgFwvq@ku.gro.lloiff>, at 11:45:37 on Sat, 22 May
>> 2021, Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> remarked:
>>
>>> I don't watch Dave, but I have seen trailers for the programme that has
>>> just finished. I suspect that the production staff budget for UKTV is
>>> rather low.
>>
>> I expect it's zero. Unlike Netflix they'll be buying it all in, not
>> making any programmes themselves.
>
>They mention a production management team that can be contacted by aspiring
>programme producers in their download pack for them,
>
> https://corporate.uktv.co.uk/commissioning/article/uktv-producer-pack/
>
>Even if it is just a very small team I doubt they work for nothing.

That's the whole of UK-TV (not Dave). And mainly "how to independently
make something we are more likely to buy in".

Given that Dave is almost entirely repeats, I don't even think people
could sell them independently made originals, but if you have any
examples...
--
Roland Perry

On 22/05/2021 14:48, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <s8apse$dd$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:28:14 on Sat, 22 May 2021,
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 22/05/2021 12:08, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <y0APhzFRDOqgFwvq@ku.gro.lloiff>, at 11:45:37 on Sat, 22
>>> May  2021, Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> remarked:
>>>
>>>> I don't watch Dave, but I have seen trailers for the programme that
>>>> has just finished.  I suspect that the production staff budget for
>>>> UKTV is rather low.
>
>>>  I expect it's zero. Unlike Netflix they'll be buying it all in, not
>>> making any programmes themselves.
>>
>> Not quite zero, somebody has to search through the production
>> catalogues and choose the cheapest programmes.
>
> I wouldn't call them 'production staff'. That's the marketing department.

Marketing people sell things, ie advertising.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Sat, 22 May 2021 12:08:15 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <y0APhzFRDOqgFwvq@ku.gro.lloiff>, at 11:45:37 on Sat, 22 May
>2021, Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> remarked:
>
>>I don't watch Dave, but I have seen trailers for the programme that has
>>just finished. I suspect that the production staff budget for UKTV is
>>rather low.
>
>I expect it's zero. Unlike Netflix they'll be buying it all in, not
>making any programmes themselves.

That's not true, actually. Dave does have a fair bit of original
programming. It's been the home of the revived Red Dwarf series, for
example, and was the original home of Taskmaster before it transferred
to Channel 4 last year. And it has several original shows which are
effectively vehicles for various comedians, such as Dave Gorman, Ross
Noble and Romesh Ranganathan.

UKTV is, though, wholly owned by the BBC - it's effectively the UK arm
of BBC Worldwide, the commercial arm of the corporation. From the BBC's
perspective, as well as being an outlet for reruns of its own most
popular shows, it's also a way to continue making shows that still have
an audience, but not a big enough one to stay on the BBC channels
themselves (eg, the aforementioned Red Dwarf), as well as a place to
pilot shows that might later transfer to the BBC or other channels (such
as the aforementioned Taskmaster). Because it's a wholly commercial
channel, it doesn't get any subsidy from licence fee income, but its
ability to source BBC reruns at minimal cost means that what money it
does have, it can spend on original programming.

Mark

On 22/05/2021 16:34, Mark Goodge wrote:
> On Sat, 22 May 2021 12:08:15 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In message <y0APhzFRDOqgFwvq@ku.gro.lloiff>, at 11:45:37 on Sat, 22 May
>> 2021, Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> remarked:
>>
>>> I don't watch Dave, but I have seen trailers for the programme that has
>>> just finished. I suspect that the production staff budget for UKTV is
>>> rather low.
>>
>> I expect it's zero. Unlike Netflix they'll be buying it all in, not
>> making any programmes themselves.
>
> That's not true, actually. Dave does have a fair bit of original
> programming. It's been the home of the revived Red Dwarf series, for
> example, and was the original home of Taskmaster before it transferred
> to Channel 4 last year. And it has several original shows which are
> effectively vehicles for various comedians, such as Dave Gorman, Ross
> Noble and Romesh Ranganathan.
>
> UKTV is, though, wholly owned by the BBC - it's effectively the UK arm
> of BBC Worldwide, the commercial arm of the corporation. From the BBC's
> perspective, as well as being an outlet for reruns of its own most
> popular shows, it's also a way to continue making shows that still have
> an audience, but not a big enough one to stay on the BBC channels
> themselves (eg, the aforementioned Red Dwarf), as well as a place to
> pilot shows that might later transfer to the BBC or other channels (such
> as the aforementioned Taskmaster). Because it's a wholly commercial
> channel, it doesn't get any subsidy from licence fee income, but its
> ability to source BBC reruns at minimal cost means that what money it
> does have, it can spend on original programming.

There is some original programming among the repeats. They usually
appear at 9pm or 10pm Mon-Fri and begin with "New:" on EPGs, though
some channels abuse that prefix to mean "first repeat on this channel".
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_(TV_channel)#Currently_made_for_Dave_(UKTV_Originals)>

In message <s8b4fp$8oj$1@dont-email.me>, at 15:29:13 on Sat, 22 May
2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>On 22/05/2021 14:48, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <s8apse$dd$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:28:14 on Sat, 22 May
>>2021, Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 22/05/2021 12:08, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <y0APhzFRDOqgFwvq@ku.gro.lloiff>, at 11:45:37 on Sat, 22
>>>>May  2021, Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't watch Dave, but I have seen trailers for the programme
>>>>>that has just finished.  I suspect that the production staff
>>>>>budget for UKTV is rather low.
>>
>>>>  I expect it's zero. Unlike Netflix they'll be buying it all in,
>>>>not making any programmes themselves.
>>>
>>> Not quite zero, somebody has to search through the production
>>>catalogues and choose the cheapest programmes.

>> I wouldn't call them 'production staff'. That's the marketing
>>department.
>
>Marketing people sell things, ie advertising.

Marketing people decide how the organisation's customer base and income
will be gained, which is a lot more than selling advertising.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <igs9q8FrraU1@mid.individual.net>, at 11:55:52 on Sat, 22 May
> 2021, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <y0APhzFRDOqgFwvq@ku.gro.lloiff>, at 11:45:37 on Sat, 22 May
>>> 2021, Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> remarked:
>>>
>>>> I don't watch Dave, but I have seen trailers for the programme that has
>>>> just finished. I suspect that the production staff budget for UKTV is
>>>> rather low.
>>>
>>> I expect it's zero. Unlike Netflix they'll be buying it all in, not
>>> making any programmes themselves.
>>
>> They mention a production management team that can be contacted by aspiring
>> programme producers in their download pack for them,
>>
>> https://corporate.uktv.co.uk/commissioning/article/uktv-producer-pack/
>>
>> Even if it is just a very small team I doubt they work for nothing.
>
> That's the whole of UK-TV (not Dave). And mainly "how to independently
> make something we are more likely to buy in".
They call themselves the production management team so I’ll take it they
consider the commissioning of programmes as part of a production process
even if it goes agains your point of view and spoils your argument.
The major channels also buy in a lot of programming from outside nowadays
even if it is made for them, even some of the radio “personalities”
actually work for outside providers.
And example a back few years back was the the mid evening show on BBC
local radio which became a single National one ,it was bought in from
WireFree producrions who employed the presenter Mark Forrest , that the
owner of Wirefree productions was a BBC chappie who had just got a big
severance payment and then the contract raised some eyebrows at the time.
>
UK-TV operate a number of channel as you know ,they just happen to five
them names instead of numbers or do tou consider that BBC1 ,BB2 etc or ITV1
,ITV2 are also walled gardens from each other.

> Given that Dave is almost entirely repeats, I don't even think people
> could sell them independently made originals, but if you have any
> examples...

https://dave.uktv.co.uk/dave-originals/

Some are completely new titles, some are new episodes of old names from the
past but are now shown first on Dave.

GH

In message <igt0c9F55tsU1@mid.individual.net>, at 18:20:57 on Sat, 22
May 2021, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:

>> Given that Dave is almost entirely repeats, I don't even think people
>> could sell them independently made originals, but if you have any
>> examples...
>
>https://dave.uktv.co.uk/dave-originals/
>
>Some are completely new titles,

One that caught my eye was "Road to Riches", it's a bit like daytime-TV
shows I might watch. But it's made by Fox TV in Australia.

>some are new episodes of old names from the past

Is that the White Dwarf reprise they seem to milk to death?

>but are now shown first on Dave.

Are all those TV Christmas Specials really being show for the first
time? And there's plenty of USA feature films where they definitely
aren't.

Picking one that looked promising as an actual made-for-UKTV (but I'd
never heard of), it indeed was, by <http://expectationtv.com/about-us/>,
but the list is nevertheless a bit of a mixed bag.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <igt0c9F55tsU1@mid.individual.net>, at 18:20:57 on Sat, 22
> May 2021, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>
>>> Given that Dave is almost entirely repeats, I don't even think people
>>> could sell them independently made originals, but if you have any
>>> examples...
>>
>> https://dave.uktv.co.uk/dave-originals/
>>
>> Some are completely new titles,
>
> One that caught my eye was "Road to Riches", it's a bit like daytime-TV
> shows I might watch. But it's made by Fox TV in Australia.
>
>> some are new episodes of old names from the past
>
> Is that the White Dwarf reprise they seem to milk to death?
>
>> but are now shown first on Dave.
>
> Are all those TV Christmas Specials really being show for the first
> time? And there's plenty of USA feature films where they definitely
> aren't.
>
> Picking one that looked promising as an actual made-for-UKTV (but I'd
> never heard of), it indeed was, by <http://expectationtv.com/about-us/>,
> but the list is nevertheless a bit of a mixed bag.

Yes, they say language evolves and it does seem the meaning of “original”
is getting stretched in some cases.

I don’t think we are alone in that almost all TV viewing here and we do
not follow any soaps or drama series is now of pre selected recordings or
done via the catch up services. In that respect UKTV play is how we view
the UKTV output with most of what interests me coming from the Yesterday
programming, you just have have to mentally tune out some of the “talking
heads getting excited” style of some presenters.OTOH you have saner ones
like Rob Bell who has now appeared on most of our channels with quite
interesting subjects .

The programmes tend to be a bit shorter than many and are a useful 30 or 40
mins view while having
the last late evening cuppa before bed though more and more I’m finding
some regulars on You tube
fulfil that role . Mark Felton for little known WW2 history and a couple
Paul and Rebecca Whitewick
who explore old trackbeds but have since also done some little known
Waterways of Southern England which you may find interesting though
sometimes they are not too sure of their facts.
One I came across recently by them was exploring the remains of the never
completed route of the DNS in Southampton , I explored them myself years
ago but though I had heard of its existence never seen the photo of the
viaduct that was partly built and later demolished that would have taken
the route towards and over the LSWR where Southampton Central now is but
they have sourced it and it appears on the video clip.

https://youtu.be/we3vyvfmRlc. at 6.20 mins in.

GH

On 22/05/2021 19:20, Marland wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <igs9q8FrraU1@mid.individual.net>, at 11:55:52 on Sat, 22 May
>> 2021, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <y0APhzFRDOqgFwvq@ku.gro.lloiff>, at 11:45:37 on Sat, 22 May
>>>> 2021, Adrian <bulleid@ku.gro.lioff> remarked:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't watch Dave, but I have seen trailers for the programme that has
>>>>> just finished. I suspect that the production staff budget for UKTV is
>>>>> rather low.
>>>>
>>>> I expect it's zero. Unlike Netflix they'll be buying it all in, not
>>>> making any programmes themselves.
>>>
>>> They mention a production management team that can be contacted by aspiring
>>> programme producers in their download pack for them,
>>>
>>> https://corporate.uktv.co.uk/commissioning/article/uktv-producer-pack/
>>>
>>> Even if it is just a very small team I doubt they work for nothing.
>>
>> That's the whole of UK-TV (not Dave). And mainly "how to independently
>> make something we are more likely to buy in".
> They call themselves the production management team so I’ll take it they
> consider the commissioning of programmes as part of a production process
> even if it goes agains your point of view and spoils your argument.
> The major channels also buy in a lot of programming from outside nowadays
> even if it is made for them, even some of the radio “personalities”
> actually work for outside providers.

A previous tory government made that a legal obligation so that they
could divert BBC licence money and ITV revenue to their mates. 25% of
output had to be from "independents".

> And example a back few years back was the the mid evening show on BBC
> local radio which became a single National one ,it was bought in from
> WireFree producrions who employed the presenter Mark Forrest , that the
> owner of Wirefree productions was a BBC chappie who had just got a big
> severance payment and then the contract raised some eyebrows at the time.

See also Topical Television which makes a load of so called reality
shows, especially medical ones. Set up by two TVS researchers who worked
on TV Weekly. Funnily enough their first independent production was TV
Weekly…

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <igududFdb8bU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:18:37 on Sun, 23
May 2021, Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> remarked:

>I don’t think we are alone in that almost all TV viewing here and we do
>not follow any soaps or drama series is now of pre selected recordings or
>done via the catch up services.

I watch quite a few antiques/games[1] shows, and much prefer to see them
live because they stopped putting the "First broadcast on" information
in iPlayer. And because it's important (due to being either a series, or
topical) to view them in the correct order, poking around in their
un-dated haystack is simply too much effort.

[1] eg Pointless and HIGNFY rather than the sillier ones. In some sense
a programme like Antiques Roadshow is also a 'game'.
--
Roland Perry

On 23/05/2021 08:49, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 22/05/2021 19:20, Marland wrote:

>> The major channels also buy in a lot of programming from outside
>> nowadays
>> even if it is made for them, even some of the radio “personalities”
>> actually work for outside providers.
>
> A previous tory government made that a legal obligation so that they
> could divert BBC licence money and ITV revenue to their mates. 25% of
> output had to be from "independents".

Are many independent media types mates with tories? I'd have expected
them to be New Labour nostalgics or something, maybe with some of the
very richest being hardcore lefties.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On 23/05/2021 13:03, Arthur Figgis wrote:
> On 23/05/2021 08:49, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 22/05/2021 19:20, Marland wrote:
>
>>> The major channels also buy in a lot of programming from outside
>>> nowadays
>>> even if it is made for them, even some of the radio “personalities”
>>> actually work for outside providers.
>>
>> A previous tory government made that a legal obligation so that they
>> could divert BBC licence money and ITV revenue to their mates. 25% of
>> output had to be from "independents".
>
> Are many independent media types mates with tories? I'd have expected
> them to be New Labour nostalgics or something, maybe with some of the
> very richest being hardcore lefties.
>

ROTFL.

When doing graduation ceremonies I often got Media Studies graduates
coming up to me explaining how they were going to revolutionise British
television by making hard-hitting social documentaries and selling them
to the main broadcasters. Seen any lately? No, neither have I.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.