https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/eurostar-smartcheck-border-control-passports-st-pancras-paris-brussels-b1094915.html

I think this is being over-hyped, as it only eliminates the UK exit
passport control, which takes only a few seconds, and can be done with
eReaders anyway. And the passengers will take much longer registering for
it at home than the few seconds they save in the station.

In message <u95imp$1j65v$5@dont-email.me>, at 08:32:25 on Tue, 18 Jul
2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/eurostar-smartcheck-border-con
>trol-passports-st-pancras-paris-brussels-b1094915.html
>
>I think this is being over-hyped, as it only eliminates the UK exit
>passport control, which takes only a few seconds,

The article says 15 minutes!

>and can be done with eReaders anyway. And the passengers will take much
>longer registering for it at home than the few seconds they save in the
>station.

--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <u95imp$1j65v$5@dont-email.me>, at 08:32:25 on Tue, 18 Jul
> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/eurostar-smartcheck-border-con
>> trol-passports-st-pancras-paris-brussels-b1094915.html
>>
>> I think this is being over-hyped, as it only eliminates the UK exit
>> passport control, which takes only a few seconds,
>
> The article says 15 minutes!

That's incredibly pessimistic (or just plain wrong). The total time for
security and both passport checks is only about 15 minutes. The UK exit
check is by far the quickest of the three steps, so even eliminating it
would save very little time. It would just get you to the back of the
slower-moving queue for the French border control a few seconds earlier.

Incidentally, Heathrow Immigration is really efficient now. I got back at a
busy time on Saturday afternoon, and found no queues at passport control:
just walk up to one of the many eReaders, and you're through in no time at
all. The latest machines seem to work very well, and can be used by the
citizens of dozens of countries.

Of course, baggage delivery is still quite slow, so it doesn't make much
difference if you have checked luggage. Similarly, speeding up the fastest
step at St P will be equally ineffective at reducing overall processing
time.

On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 10:11:28 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>Incidentally, Heathrow Immigration is really efficient now. I got back at a
>busy time on Saturday afternoon, and found no queues at passport control:
>just walk up to one of the many eReaders, and you're through in no time at
>all. The latest machines seem to work very well, and can be used by the
>citizens of dozens of countries.
>
>Of course, baggage delivery is still quite slow, so it doesn't make much
>difference if you have checked luggage. Similarly, speeding up the fastest
>step at St P will be equally ineffective at reducing overall processing
>time.

I'm still waiting for some noises from dover and eurotunnel about how they're
going to deal with "not a visa honest because we say so even though you have
to provide your personal details and pay for it and might be rejected" Etias
and ees.

<Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 10:11:28 -0000 (UTC)
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Incidentally, Heathrow Immigration is really efficient now. I got back at a
>> busy time on Saturday afternoon, and found no queues at passport control:
>> just walk up to one of the many eReaders, and you're through in no time at
>> all. The latest machines seem to work very well, and can be used by the
>> citizens of dozens of countries.
>>
>> Of course, baggage delivery is still quite slow, so it doesn't make much
>> difference if you have checked luggage. Similarly, speeding up the fastest
>> step at St P will be equally ineffective at reducing overall processing
>> time.
>
> I'm still waiting for some noises from dover and eurotunnel about how they're
> going to deal with "not a visa honest because we say so even though you have
> to provide your personal details and pay for it and might be rejected" Etias
> and ees.

Reach Dover three hours early, drivers told before holiday rush

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c7abaf1e-24c3-11ee-9959-3da1f328ac3c?shareToken=3c3fef1e73ed3d844515e79273e595a9

Goods now crossing Channel at pre-Brexit speed, says tunnel chief

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/83a5e4e4-2584-11ee-9959-3da1f328ac3c?shareToken=d6eae7fe18f357c9c2f99306d6b2f587

On 18/07/2023 20:58, Recliner wrote:
> Goods now crossing Channel at pre-Brexit speed, says tunnel chief
>
> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/83a5e4e4-2584-11ee-9959-3da1f328ac3c?shareToken=d6eae7fe18f357c9c2f99306d6b2f587

Only cost £111 million to get back to something approaching square one.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 18/07/2023 21:07, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 18/07/2023 20:58, Recliner wrote:
>> Goods now crossing Channel at pre-Brexit speed, says tunnel chief
>>
>> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/83a5e4e4-2584-11ee-9959-3da1f328ac3c?shareToken=d6eae7fe18f357c9c2f99306d6b2f587
>
> Only cost £111 million to get back to something approaching square one.

But that's peanuts compared to the £350 million/week that we are getting to fund the NHS as a result of Brexit.

--
Clive Page

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 18/07/2023 20:58, Recliner wrote:
>> Goods now crossing Channel at pre-Brexit speed, says tunnel chief
>>
>> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/83a5e4e4-2584-11ee-9959-3da1f328ac3c?shareToken=d6eae7fe18f357c9c2f99306d6b2f587
>
> Only cost £111 million to get back to something approaching square one.
>

True. A lot of cost and effort to get part of the way back to the smooth
trading relationship we enjoyed for decades. The newly signed Pacific trade
deal might deliver value in time, but it's no substitute in the short term.

On 18/07/2023 22:34, Recliner wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 18/07/2023 20:58, Recliner wrote:
>>> Goods now crossing Channel at pre-Brexit speed, says tunnel chief
>>>
>>> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/83a5e4e4-2584-11ee-9959-3da1f328ac3c?shareToken=d6eae7fe18f357c9c2f99306d6b2f587
>>
>> Only cost £111 million to get back to something approaching square one.
>>
>
> True. A lot of cost and effort to get part of the way back to the smooth
> trading relationship we enjoyed for decades. The newly signed Pacific trade
> deal might deliver value in time, but it's no substitute in the short term.
>
>

No substitute in the long term either, according to Bedenoch's most
optimistic projections it make mike a difference of 1p per £1000 worth
of trade over 10 years. In the same period we stand to lose £400 per
£1000 over lost trade with Europe.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 18.07.23 22:07, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 18/07/2023 20:58, Recliner wrote:
>> Goods now crossing Channel at pre-Brexit speed, says tunnel chief
>>
>> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/83a5e4e4-2584-11ee-9959-3da1f328ac3c?shareToken=d6eae7fe18f357c9c2f99306d6b2f587
>
> Only cost £111 million to get back to something approaching square one.

The article says the transit time is the same as it was pre-Brexit. It
says nothing about the traffic volume, though. It would only be back to
square one if the same volume/value of traffic is flowing as was the
case pre-brexit.

Robin

On 19/07/2023 15:46, Bob wrote:
> On 18.07.23 22:07, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 18/07/2023 20:58, Recliner wrote:
>>> Goods now crossing Channel at pre-Brexit speed, says tunnel chief
>>>
>>> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/83a5e4e4-2584-11ee-9959-3da1f328ac3c?shareToken=d6eae7fe18f357c9c2f99306d6b2f587
>>
>> Only cost £111 million to get back to something approaching square one.
>
> The article says the transit time is the same as it was pre-Brexit. It
> says nothing about the traffic volume, though. It would only be back to
> square one if the same volume/value of traffic is flowing as was the
> case pre-brexit.
>

Hence "approaching".

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 15:40:39 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
><Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 10:11:28 -0000 (UTC)
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Incidentally, Heathrow Immigration is really efficient now. I got back at a
>>> busy time on Saturday afternoon, and found no queues at passport control:
>>> just walk up to one of the many eReaders, and you're through in no time at
>>> all. The latest machines seem to work very well, and can be used by the
>>> citizens of dozens of countries.
>>>
>>> Of course, baggage delivery is still quite slow, so it doesn't make much
>>> difference if you have checked luggage. Similarly, speeding up the fastest
>>> step at St P will be equally ineffective at reducing overall processing
>>> time.
>>
>> I'm still waiting for some noises from dover and eurotunnel about how they're
>
>> going to deal with "not a visa honest because we say so even though you have
>> to provide your personal details and pay for it and might be rejected" Etias
>> and ees.
>
>Reach Dover three hours early, drivers told before holiday rush
>
>https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c7abaf1e-24c3-11ee-9959-3da1f328ac3c?shareTo
>ken=3c3fef1e73ed3d844515e79273e595a9

Only 3 hours? Sounds optimistic frankly. Why car drivers use the dover ferry
(I understand why truckers do - rest periods) when the eurotunnel costs the
same, takes 1/3rd the time and is far quicker to load I simply don't get.

On 19/07/2023 19:05, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 15:40:39 -0000 (UTC)
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 10:11:28 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Incidentally, Heathrow Immigration is really efficient now. I got back at a
>>>> busy time on Saturday afternoon, and found no queues at passport control:
>>>> just walk up to one of the many eReaders, and you're through in no time at
>>>> all. The latest machines seem to work very well, and can be used by the
>>>> citizens of dozens of countries.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, baggage delivery is still quite slow, so it doesn't make much
>>>> difference if you have checked luggage. Similarly, speeding up the fastest
>>>> step at St P will be equally ineffective at reducing overall processing
>>>> time.
>>>
>>> I'm still waiting for some noises from dover and eurotunnel about how they're
>>
>>> going to deal with "not a visa honest because we say so even though you have
>>> to provide your personal details and pay for it and might be rejected" Etias
>>> and ees.
>>
>> Reach Dover three hours early, drivers told before holiday rush
>>
>> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c7abaf1e-24c3-11ee-9959-3da1f328ac3c?shareTo
>> ken=3c3fef1e73ed3d844515e79273e595a9
>
> Only 3 hours? Sounds optimistic frankly. Why car drivers use the dover ferry
> (I understand why truckers do - rest periods) when the eurotunnel costs the
> same, takes 1/3rd the time and is far quicker to load I simply don't get.
>
r Moe expensive and limited capacity.
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 19/07/2023 19:05, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 15:40:39 -0000 (UTC)
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 10:11:28 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Incidentally, Heathrow Immigration is really efficient now. I got back at a
>>>> busy time on Saturday afternoon, and found no queues at passport control:
>>>> just walk up to one of the many eReaders, and you're through in no time at
>>>> all. The latest machines seem to work very well, and can be used by the
>>>> citizens of dozens of countries.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, baggage delivery is still quite slow, so it doesn't make much
>>>> difference if you have checked luggage. Similarly, speeding up the fastest
>>>> step at St P will be equally ineffective at reducing overall processing
>>>> time.
>>>
>>> I'm still waiting for some noises from dover and eurotunnel about how they're
>>
>>> going to deal with "not a visa honest because we say so even though you have
>>> to provide your personal details and pay for it and might be rejected" Etias
>>> and ees.
>>
>> Reach Dover three hours early, drivers told before holiday rush
>>
>> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c7abaf1e-24c3-11ee-9959-3da1f328ac3c?shareTo
>> ken=3c3fef1e73ed3d844515e79273e595a9
>
> Only 3 hours? Sounds optimistic frankly. Why car drivers use the dover ferry
> (I understand why truckers do - rest periods) when the eurotunnel costs the
> same, takes 1/3rd the time and is far quicker to load I simply don't get.
>
If you drive some distance to Dover then the longer break on the ferry
gets you fresh for the onward travel and gives you time for a proper meal.

You cannot do that by way of the tunnel.

Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 19/07/2023 19:05, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 15:40:39 -0000 (UTC)
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 10:11:28 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Incidentally, Heathrow Immigration is really efficient now. I got back at a
>>>>> busy time on Saturday afternoon, and found no queues at passport control:
>>>>> just walk up to one of the many eReaders, and you're through in no time at
>>>>> all. The latest machines seem to work very well, and can be used by the
>>>>> citizens of dozens of countries.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course, baggage delivery is still quite slow, so it doesn't make much
>>>>> difference if you have checked luggage. Similarly, speeding up the fastest
>>>>> step at St P will be equally ineffective at reducing overall processing
>>>>> time.
>>>>
>>>> I'm still waiting for some noises from dover and eurotunnel about how they're
>>>
>>>> going to deal with "not a visa honest because we say so even though you have
>>>> to provide your personal details and pay for it and might be rejected" Etias
>>>> and ees.
>>>
>>> Reach Dover three hours early, drivers told before holiday rush
>>>
>>> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c7abaf1e-24c3-11ee-9959-3da1f328ac3c?shareTo
>>> ken=3c3fef1e73ed3d844515e79273e595a9
>>
>> Only 3 hours? Sounds optimistic frankly. Why car drivers use the dover ferry
>> (I understand why truckers do - rest periods) when the eurotunnel costs the
>> same, takes 1/3rd the time and is far quicker to load I simply don't get.
>>
> If you drive some distance to Dover then the longer break on the ferry
> gets you fresh for the onward travel and gives you time for a proper meal.
>
> You cannot do that by way of the tunnel.
>

Also, some cargoes aren't allowed through the Tunnel, and have to take the
ferry.

In message <u99kth$2arct$5@dont-email.me>, at 21:34:41 on Wed, 19 Jul
2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>> On 19/07/2023 19:05, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 15:40:39 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 10:11:28 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Incidentally, Heathrow Immigration is really efficient now. I got
>>>>>>back at a
>>>>>> busy time on Saturday afternoon, and found no queues at passport control:
>>>>>> just walk up to one of the many eReaders, and you're through in
>>>>>>no time at
>>>>>> all. The latest machines seem to work very well, and can be used by the
>>>>>> citizens of dozens of countries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course, baggage delivery is still quite slow, so it doesn't make much
>>>>>> difference if you have checked luggage. Similarly, speeding up
>>>>>>the fastest
>>>>>> step at St P will be equally ineffective at reducing overall processing
>>>>>> time.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm still waiting for some noises from dover and eurotunnel about
>>>>>how they're
>>>>
>>>>> going to deal with "not a visa honest because we say so even
>>>>>though you have
>>>>> to provide your personal details and pay for it and might be
>>>>>rejected" Etias
>>>>> and ees.
>>>>
>>>> Reach Dover three hours early, drivers told before holiday rush
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c7abaf1e-24c3-11ee-9959-3da1f328ac
>>>>3c?shareTo
>>>> ken=3c3fef1e73ed3d844515e79273e595a9
>>>
>>> Only 3 hours? Sounds optimistic frankly. Why car drivers use the dover ferry
>>> (I understand why truckers do - rest periods) when the eurotunnel costs the
>>> same, takes 1/3rd the time and is far quicker to load I simply don't get.
>>>
>> If you drive some distance to Dover then the longer break on the ferry
>> gets you fresh for the onward travel and gives you time for a proper meal.

A "proper meal" when making a long journey is a sandwich.

>> You cannot do that by way of the tunnel.
>
>Also, some cargoes aren't allowed through the Tunnel, and have to take the
>ferry.

What cargoes in cars, aren't allowed? Maybe gas cylinders in campervans,
but that's a tiny subset.
--
Roland Perry

On 19.07.23 20:05, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 15:40:39 -0000 (UTC)
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 10:11:28 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Incidentally, Heathrow Immigration is really efficient now. I got back at a
>>>> busy time on Saturday afternoon, and found no queues at passport control:
>>>> just walk up to one of the many eReaders, and you're through in no time at
>>>> all. The latest machines seem to work very well, and can be used by the
>>>> citizens of dozens of countries.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, baggage delivery is still quite slow, so it doesn't make much
>>>> difference if you have checked luggage. Similarly, speeding up the fastest
>>>> step at St P will be equally ineffective at reducing overall processing
>>>> time.
>>>
>>> I'm still waiting for some noises from dover and eurotunnel about how they're
>>
>>> going to deal with "not a visa honest because we say so even though you have
>>> to provide your personal details and pay for it and might be rejected" Etias
>>> and ees.
>>
>> Reach Dover three hours early, drivers told before holiday rush
>>
>> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c7abaf1e-24c3-11ee-9959-3da1f328ac3c?shareTo
>> ken=3c3fef1e73ed3d844515e79273e595a9
>
> Only 3 hours? Sounds optimistic frankly. Why car drivers use the dover ferry
> (I understand why truckers do - rest periods) when the eurotunnel costs the
> same, takes 1/3rd the time and is far quicker to load I simply don't get.

Car drivers experience fatigue just as much as truck drivers, and
although they aren't subject to the same mandatory rest periods, if a
car driver is making a longer journey (say Midlands to southern France),
having a rest break on the ferry can be an appealing idea.

Robin

On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 19:17:30 +0100
Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>On 19/07/2023 19:05, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 15:40:39 -0000 (UTC)
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 10:11:28 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Incidentally, Heathrow Immigration is really efficient now. I got back at
>a
>>>>> busy time on Saturday afternoon, and found no queues at passport control:
>>>>> just walk up to one of the many eReaders, and you're through in no time at
>
>>>>> all. The latest machines seem to work very well, and can be used by the
>>>>> citizens of dozens of countries.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course, baggage delivery is still quite slow, so it doesn't make much
>>>>> difference if you have checked luggage. Similarly, speeding up the fastest
>
>>>>> step at St P will be equally ineffective at reducing overall processing
>>>>> time.
>>>>
>>>> I'm still waiting for some noises from dover and eurotunnel about how
>they're
>>>
>>>> going to deal with "not a visa honest because we say so even though you
>have
>>>> to provide your personal details and pay for it and might be rejected"
>Etias
>>>> and ees.
>>>
>>> Reach Dover three hours early, drivers told before holiday rush
>>>
>>>
>https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c7abaf1e-24c3-11ee-9959-3da1f328ac3c?shareTo
>
>>> ken=3c3fef1e73ed3d844515e79273e595a9
>>
>> Only 3 hours? Sounds optimistic frankly. Why car drivers use the dover ferry
>> (I understand why truckers do - rest periods) when the eurotunnel costs the
>> same, takes 1/3rd the time and is far quicker to load I simply don't get.
>>
>r
>Moe expensive and limited capacity.

The ferries are a bit cheaper, but its the ferries that have limited
capacity and hence the endless queues. Eurotunnel runs trains every 15 or 20
mins and I don't know how many cars fit on a train but it must be well over
100.

The only bad queues I've experienced with eurotunnel are in calais thanks to the
UK border force who seem to make it their business to take forever to check
each passport.

On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 21:32:06 +0100
Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>On 19/07/2023 19:05, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 15:40:39 -0000 (UTC)
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 10:11:28 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Incidentally, Heathrow Immigration is really efficient now. I got back at
>a
>>>>> busy time on Saturday afternoon, and found no queues at passport control:
>>>>> just walk up to one of the many eReaders, and you're through in no time at
>
>>>>> all. The latest machines seem to work very well, and can be used by the
>>>>> citizens of dozens of countries.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course, baggage delivery is still quite slow, so it doesn't make much
>>>>> difference if you have checked luggage. Similarly, speeding up the fastest
>
>>>>> step at St P will be equally ineffective at reducing overall processing
>>>>> time.
>>>>
>>>> I'm still waiting for some noises from dover and eurotunnel about how
>they're
>>>
>>>> going to deal with "not a visa honest because we say so even though you
>have
>>>> to provide your personal details and pay for it and might be rejected"
>Etias
>>>> and ees.
>>>
>>> Reach Dover three hours early, drivers told before holiday rush
>>>
>>>
>https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c7abaf1e-24c3-11ee-9959-3da1f328ac3c?shareTo
>
>>> ken=3c3fef1e73ed3d844515e79273e595a9
>>
>> Only 3 hours? Sounds optimistic frankly. Why car drivers use the dover ferry
>> (I understand why truckers do - rest periods) when the eurotunnel costs the
>> same, takes 1/3rd the time and is far quicker to load I simply don't get.
>>
>If you drive some distance to Dover then the longer break on the ferry
>gets you fresh for the onward travel and gives you time for a proper meal.
>
>You cannot do that by way of the tunnel.

Sure you can. Arrive at the terminal early and you can have a sit down meal
and do some shopping. No idea if you can do that at dover but I doubt it. Its
probably more a case of sitting in the car sweltering.

On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 09:07:37 +0200
Bob <bob@domain.com> wrote:
>On 19.07.23 20:05, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> Only 3 hours? Sounds optimistic frankly. Why car drivers use the dover ferry
>> (I understand why truckers do - rest periods) when the eurotunnel costs the
>> same, takes 1/3rd the time and is far quicker to load I simply don't get.
>
>Car drivers experience fatigue just as much as truck drivers, and
>although they aren't subject to the same mandatory rest periods, if a
>car driver is making a longer journey (say Midlands to southern France),
>having a rest break on the ferry can be an appealing idea.

Speaking as someone who frequently drives on the continent (and will be again
in august) I'd sooner get to france then look for somewhere nice to stop
for a cafe latte.

In message <u9amfp$2joji$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:07:37 on Thu, 20 Jul
2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>On 19.07.23 20:05, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 15:40:39 -0000 (UTC)
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 10:11:28 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Incidentally, Heathrow Immigration is really efficient now. I got
>>>>>back at a
>>>>> busy time on Saturday afternoon, and found no queues at passport control:
>>>>> just walk up to one of the many eReaders, and you're through in no time at
>>>>> all. The latest machines seem to work very well, and can be used by the
>>>>> citizens of dozens of countries.
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course, baggage delivery is still quite slow, so it doesn't make much
>>>>> difference if you have checked luggage. Similarly, speeding up the fastest
>>>>> step at St P will be equally ineffective at reducing overall processing
>>>>> time.
>>>>
>>>> I'm still waiting for some noises from dover and eurotunnel about
>>>>how they're
>>>
>>>> going to deal with "not a visa honest because we say so even though
>>>>you have
>>>> to provide your personal details and pay for it and might be
>>>>rejected" Etias
>>>> and ees.
>>>
>>> Reach Dover three hours early, drivers told before holiday rush
>>>
>>>
>>>https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c7abaf1e-24c3-11ee-9959-3da1f328ac3
>>>c?shareTo
>>> ken=3c3fef1e73ed3d844515e79273e595a9

>> Only 3 hours? Sounds optimistic frankly. Why car drivers use the
>>dover ferry (I understand why truckers do - rest periods) when the
>>eurotunnel costs the same, takes 1/3rd the time and is far quicker to
>>load I simply don't get.
>
>Car drivers experience fatigue just as much as truck drivers, and
>although they aren't subject to the same mandatory rest periods, if a
>car driver is making a longer journey (say Midlands to southern
>France), having a rest break on the ferry can be an appealing idea.

Given they aren't driving the train, surely Eurotunnel users have a rest
break baked in? If they need a longer break (or to fulfill the obsession
some seem to have with "meals") then stop at the services on the
motorway before arriving at the Chunnel Terminal. Or the mirror image
having left the French terminal.
--
Roland Perry

On 20/07/2023 06:10, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <u99kth$2arct$5@dont-email.me>, at 21:34:41 on Wed, 19 Jul
> 2023, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Coffee <martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
>>> On 19/07/2023 19:05, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 15:40:39 -0000 (UTC)
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 10:11:28 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Incidentally, Heathrow Immigration is really efficient now. I got
>>>>>>> back at a
>>>>>>> busy time on Saturday afternoon, and found no queues at passport
>>>>>>> control:
>>>>>>> just walk up to one of the many eReaders, and you're through in
>>>>>>> no time at
>>>>>>> all. The latest machines seem to work very well, and can be used
>>>>>>> by the
>>>>>>> citizens of dozens of countries.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Of course, baggage delivery is still quite slow, so it doesn't
>>>>>>> make much
>>>>>>> difference if you have checked luggage. Similarly, speeding up
>>>>>>> the fastest
>>>>>>> step at St P will be equally ineffective at reducing overall
>>>>>>> processing
>>>>>>> time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm still waiting for some noises from dover and eurotunnel about
>>>>>> how they're
>>>>>
>>>>>> going to deal with "not a visa honest because we say so even
>>>>>> though you have
>>>>>> to provide your personal details and pay for it and might be
>>>>>> rejected" Etias
>>>>>> and ees.
>>>>>
>>>>> Reach Dover three hours early, drivers told before holiday rush
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c7abaf1e-24c3-11ee-9959-3da1f328ac
>>>>> 3c?shareTo
>>>>> ken=3c3fef1e73ed3d844515e79273e595a9
>>>>
>>>> Only 3 hours? Sounds optimistic frankly. Why car drivers use the
>>>> dover ferry
>>>> (I understand why truckers do - rest periods) when the eurotunnel
>>>> costs the
>>>> same, takes 1/3rd the time and is far quicker to load I simply don't
>>>> get.
>>>>
>>> If you drive some distance to Dover then the longer break on the ferry
>>> gets you fresh for the onward travel and gives you time for a proper
>>> meal.
>
> A "proper meal" when making a long journey is a sandwich.

Not by my definition
..
>
>>> You cannot do that by way of the tunnel.
>>
>> Also, some cargoes aren't allowed through the Tunnel, and have to take
>> the
>> ferry.
>
> What cargoes in cars, aren't allowed? Maybe gas cylinders in campervans,
> but that's a tiny subset.

On 20/07/2023 09:28, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Wed, 19 Jul 2023 19:17:30 +0100
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 19/07/2023 19:05, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 15:40:39 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 10:11:28 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Incidentally, Heathrow Immigration is really efficient now. I got back at
>> a
>>>>>> busy time on Saturday afternoon, and found no queues at passport control:
>>>>>> just walk up to one of the many eReaders, and you're through in no time at
>>
>>>>>> all. The latest machines seem to work very well, and can be used by the
>>>>>> citizens of dozens of countries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course, baggage delivery is still quite slow, so it doesn't make much
>>>>>> difference if you have checked luggage. Similarly, speeding up the fastest
>>
>>>>>> step at St P will be equally ineffective at reducing overall processing
>>>>>> time.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm still waiting for some noises from dover and eurotunnel about how
>> they're
>>>>
>>>>> going to deal with "not a visa honest because we say so even though you
>> have
>>>>> to provide your personal details and pay for it and might be rejected"
>> Etias
>>>>> and ees.
>>>>
>>>> Reach Dover three hours early, drivers told before holiday rush
>>>>
>>>>
>> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c7abaf1e-24c3-11ee-9959-3da1f328ac3c?shareTo
>>
>>>> ken=3c3fef1e73ed3d844515e79273e595a9
>>>
>>> Only 3 hours? Sounds optimistic frankly. Why car drivers use the dover ferry
>>> (I understand why truckers do - rest periods) when the eurotunnel costs the
>>> same, takes 1/3rd the time and is far quicker to load I simply don't get.
>>>
>> r
>> Moe expensive and limited capacity.
>
> The ferries are a bit cheaper, but its the ferries that have limited
> capacity and hence the endless queues. Eurotunnel runs trains every 15 or 20
> mins and I don't know how many cars fit on a train but it must be well over
> 100.
>

The latest ferries on the route can carry more than 1000 cars per trip.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 20/07/2023 10:03, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <u9amfp$2joji$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:07:37 on Thu, 20 Jul
> 2023, Bob <bob@domain.com> remarked:
>> On 19.07.23 20:05, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 15:40:39 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 18 Jul 2023 10:11:28 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Incidentally, Heathrow Immigration is really efficient now. I got
>>>>>> back at a
>>>>>> busy time on Saturday afternoon, and found no queues at passport
>>>>>> control:
>>>>>> just walk up to one of the many eReaders, and you're through in no
>>>>>> time at
>>>>>> all. The latest machines seem to work very well, and can be used
>>>>>> by the
>>>>>> citizens of dozens of countries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course, baggage delivery is still quite slow, so it doesn't
>>>>>> make much
>>>>>> difference if you have checked luggage. Similarly, speeding up the
>>>>>> fastest
>>>>>> step at St P will be equally ineffective at reducing overall
>>>>>> processing
>>>>>> time.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm still waiting for some noises from dover and eurotunnel about
>>>>> how they're
>>>>
>>>>> going to deal with "not a visa honest because we say so even though
>>>>> you have
>>>>> to provide your personal details and pay for it and might be
>>>>> rejected" Etias
>>>>> and ees.
>>>>
>>>> Reach Dover three hours early, drivers told before holiday rush
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c7abaf1e-24c3-11ee-9959-3da1f328ac3
>>>> c?shareTo
>>>> ken=3c3fef1e73ed3d844515e79273e595a9
>
>>>  Only 3 hours? Sounds optimistic frankly. Why car drivers use the
>>> dover ferry  (I understand why truckers do - rest periods) when the
>>> eurotunnel costs the  same, takes 1/3rd the time and is far quicker
>>> to load I simply don't get.
>>
>> Car drivers experience fatigue just as much as truck drivers, and
>> although they aren't subject to the same mandatory rest periods, if a
>> car driver is making a longer journey (say Midlands to southern
>> France), having a rest break on the ferry can be an appealing idea.
>
> Given they aren't driving the train, surely Eurotunnel users have a rest
> break baked in? If they need a longer break (or to fulfill the obsession
> some seem to have with "meals") then stop at the services on the
> motorway before arriving at the Chunnel Terminal. Or the mirror image
> having left the French terminal.

If you choose to stop at services for your meal then your tunnel journey
becomes dead time.