<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-66244272>
--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-66244272>

Interesting extract:

After criticism from a number of the MPs, Mr Price admitted that the Welsh
Marches rail services have been performing "incredibly badly" due to
problems "which were not predicted".

This was mainly due to the temporary withdrawal of Class 175 trains for
safety checks after a number of fires meaning inferior trains had to be
used instead.

The replacements were "typically non-air conditioned", he said. "They are
typically trains that like to run at 75 miles an hour, not 90 miles an
hour, so they tend to lose time on longer distance journeys.

"As a consequence of all of those things coming together, we ran a poorer
quality service with less capacity that was struggling to keep to time for
a period of time."

Due to "global supply chain" component failures it had taken "four or five
months" for the company TfW leases the 175 trains from to get them back in
service.

"I would say we are approaching an acceptable level of performance," he
said.
"What I now need to do over the next couple of months is take that to a
good level of performance. And then our ambition, obviously, is to run an
excellent service."

Mr Price said that before the pandemic the Welsh Marches line had been
"much less utilised than it is today" and that now "we are seeing much
higher demand on the Marches line".

He said the Welsh Marches line was, in fact, "the only line that makes us
any money".

————

Given the last statement, I wonder if they couldn't have worked harder to
find some temporary substitutes for the 175s? For example, did GWR have
any spare Castles that had been stood down?

On 19/07/2023 17:28, Graeme Wall wrote:
> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-66244272>

In reply to recliner's post (which I have somehow lost from this
computer) - TfW has never had any HSTs, so it would probably take a year
or more to train enough crews to use them on the Marches line.

Indeed it might be slightly quicker to try and get a temporary easement
to permit Class 150 to run at 80mph instead of 75mph.
(In the days before radar traps, etc., both Classes 150 and 156 showed
they were able to reach about 85 mph on level track. )

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-66244272>
>
> Interesting extract:
>
> After criticism from a number of the MPs, Mr Price admitted that the Welsh
> Marches rail services have been performing "incredibly badly" due to
> problems "which were not predicted".
>
> This was mainly due to the temporary withdrawal of Class 175 trains for
> safety checks after a number of fires meaning inferior trains had to be
> used instead.
>
> The replacements were "typically non-air conditioned", he said. "They are
> typically trains that like to run at 75 miles an hour, not 90 miles an
> hour, so they tend to lose time on longer distance journeys.
>
> "As a consequence of all of those things coming together, we ran a poorer
> quality service with less capacity that was struggling to keep to time for
> a period of time."
>
> Due to "global supply chain" component failures it had taken "four or five
> months" for the company TfW leases the 175 trains from to get them back in
> service.
>
> "I would say we are approaching an acceptable level of performance," he
> said.
> "What I now need to do over the next couple of months is take that to a
> good level of performance. And then our ambition, obviously, is to run an
> excellent service."
>
> Mr Price said that before the pandemic the Welsh Marches line had been
> "much less utilised than it is today" and that now "we are seeing much
> higher demand on the Marches line".
>
> He said the Welsh Marches line was, in fact, "the only line that makes us
> any money".
>
> ————
>
> Given the last statement, I wonder if they couldn't have worked harder to
> find some temporary substitutes for the 175s? For example, did GWR have
> any spare Castles that had been stood down?
>

Crew traction knowledge is the limiting factor (three weeks conversion to
HST for drivers), plus things like stop boards etc.

You’d probably be better hiring train plus crew from one of the railtour
companies.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:56:11 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:

>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-66244272>
>>
>> Interesting extract:
>>
>> After criticism from a number of the MPs, Mr Price admitted that the Welsh
>> Marches rail services have been performing "incredibly badly" due to
>> problems "which were not predicted".
>>
>> This was mainly due to the temporary withdrawal of Class 175 trains for
>> safety checks after a number of fires meaning inferior trains had to be
>> used instead.
>>
>> The replacements were "typically non-air conditioned", he said. "They are
>> typically trains that like to run at 75 miles an hour, not 90 miles an
>> hour, so they tend to lose time on longer distance journeys.
>>
>> "As a consequence of all of those things coming together, we ran a poorer
>> quality service with less capacity that was struggling to keep to time for
>> a period of time."
>>
>> Due to "global supply chain" component failures it had taken "four or five
>> months" for the company TfW leases the 175 trains from to get them back in
>> service.
>>
>> "I would say we are approaching an acceptable level of performance," he
>> said.
>> "What I now need to do over the next couple of months is take that to a
>> good level of performance. And then our ambition, obviously, is to run an
>> excellent service."
>>
>> Mr Price said that before the pandemic the Welsh Marches line had been
>> "much less utilised than it is today" and that now "we are seeing much
>> higher demand on the Marches line".
>>
>> He said the Welsh Marches line was, in fact, "the only line that makes us
>> any money".
>>
>> ————
>>
>> Given the last statement, I wonder if they couldn't have worked harder to
>> find some temporary substitutes for the 175s? For example, did GWR have
>> any spare Castles that had been stood down?
>>
>
>Crew traction knowledge is the limiting factor (three weeks conversion to
>HST for drivers), plus things like stop boards etc.
>
>You’d probably be better hiring train plus crew from one of the railtour
>companies.

I wonder how many have stock compliant with the requirements for service (as opposed to charter) trains? For example,
most have slam doors.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:56:11 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-66244272>
>>>
>>> Interesting extract:
>>>
>>> After criticism from a number of the MPs, Mr Price admitted that the Welsh
>>> Marches rail services have been performing "incredibly badly" due to
>>> problems "which were not predicted".
>>>
>>> This was mainly due to the temporary withdrawal of Class 175 trains for
>>> safety checks after a number of fires meaning inferior trains had to be
>>> used instead.
>>>
>>> The replacements were "typically non-air conditioned", he said. "They are
>>> typically trains that like to run at 75 miles an hour, not 90 miles an
>>> hour, so they tend to lose time on longer distance journeys.
>>>
>>> "As a consequence of all of those things coming together, we ran a poorer
>>> quality service with less capacity that was struggling to keep to time for
>>> a period of time."
>>>
>>> Due to "global supply chain" component failures it had taken "four or five
>>> months" for the company TfW leases the 175 trains from to get them back in
>>> service.
>>>
>>> "I would say we are approaching an acceptable level of performance," he
>>> said.
>>> "What I now need to do over the next couple of months is take that to a
>>> good level of performance. And then our ambition, obviously, is to run an
>>> excellent service."
>>>
>>> Mr Price said that before the pandemic the Welsh Marches line had been
>>> "much less utilised than it is today" and that now "we are seeing much
>>> higher demand on the Marches line".
>>>
>>> He said the Welsh Marches line was, in fact, "the only line that makes us
>>> any money".
>>>
>>> ————
>>>
>>> Given the last statement, I wonder if they couldn't have worked harder to
>>> find some temporary substitutes for the 175s? For example, did GWR have
>>> any spare Castles that had been stood down?
>>>
>>
>> Crew traction knowledge is the limiting factor (three weeks conversion to
>> HST for drivers), plus things like stop boards etc.
>>
>> You’d probably be better hiring train plus crew from one of the railtour
>> companies.
>
> I wonder how many have stock compliant with the requirements for service
> (as opposed to charter) trains? For example,
> most have slam doors.
>

They've been used on various special public trains organised by TOCs
recently, but perhaps couldn't be used on a more regular, ongoing basis.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:56:11 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-66244272>
>>>>
>>>> Interesting extract:
>>>>
>>>> After criticism from a number of the MPs, Mr Price admitted that the Welsh
>>>> Marches rail services have been performing "incredibly badly" due to
>>>> problems "which were not predicted".
>>>>
>>>> This was mainly due to the temporary withdrawal of Class 175 trains for
>>>> safety checks after a number of fires meaning inferior trains had to be
>>>> used instead.
>>>>
>>>> The replacements were "typically non-air conditioned", he said. "They are
>>>> typically trains that like to run at 75 miles an hour, not 90 miles an
>>>> hour, so they tend to lose time on longer distance journeys.
>>>>
>>>> "As a consequence of all of those things coming together, we ran a poorer
>>>> quality service with less capacity that was struggling to keep to time for
>>>> a period of time."
>>>>
>>>> Due to "global supply chain" component failures it had taken "four or five
>>>> months" for the company TfW leases the 175 trains from to get them back in
>>>> service.
>>>>
>>>> "I would say we are approaching an acceptable level of performance," he
>>>> said.
>>>> "What I now need to do over the next couple of months is take that to a
>>>> good level of performance. And then our ambition, obviously, is to run an
>>>> excellent service."
>>>>
>>>> Mr Price said that before the pandemic the Welsh Marches line had been
>>>> "much less utilised than it is today" and that now "we are seeing much
>>>> higher demand on the Marches line".
>>>>
>>>> He said the Welsh Marches line was, in fact, "the only line that makes us
>>>> any money".
>>>>
>>>> ————
>>>>
>>>> Given the last statement, I wonder if they couldn't have worked harder to
>>>> find some temporary substitutes for the 175s? For example, did GWR have
>>>> any spare Castles that had been stood down?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Crew traction knowledge is the limiting factor (three weeks conversion to
>>> HST for drivers), plus things like stop boards etc.
>>>
>>> You’d probably be better hiring train plus crew from one of the railtour
>>> companies.
>>
>> I wonder how many have stock compliant with the requirements for service
>> (as opposed to charter) trains? For example,
>> most have slam doors.
>>
>
> They've been used on various special public trains organised by TOCs
> recently, but perhaps couldn't be used on a more regular, ongoing basis.
>

I thought they had to be booked as charter trains, and couldn't just
substitute for normal service trains?

Coming back to this case, I take it that there are no spare 158s or 170s
available? Does TPE have any surplus 185s? We know Avanti has at least a
couple of spare 221s (which might be heading to Grand Central to cover for
unreliable 180s).

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:56:11 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-66244272>
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting extract:
>>>>>
>>>>> After criticism from a number of the MPs, Mr Price admitted that the Welsh
>>>>> Marches rail services have been performing "incredibly badly" due to
>>>>> problems "which were not predicted".
>>>>>
>>>>> This was mainly due to the temporary withdrawal of Class 175 trains for
>>>>> safety checks after a number of fires meaning inferior trains had to be
>>>>> used instead.
>>>>>
>>>>> The replacements were "typically non-air conditioned", he said. "They are
>>>>> typically trains that like to run at 75 miles an hour, not 90 miles an
>>>>> hour, so they tend to lose time on longer distance journeys.
>>>>>
>>>>> "As a consequence of all of those things coming together, we ran a poorer
>>>>> quality service with less capacity that was struggling to keep to time for
>>>>> a period of time."
>>>>>
>>>>> Due to "global supply chain" component failures it had taken "four or five
>>>>> months" for the company TfW leases the 175 trains from to get them back in
>>>>> service.
>>>>>
>>>>> "I would say we are approaching an acceptable level of performance," he
>>>>> said.
>>>>> "What I now need to do over the next couple of months is take that to a
>>>>> good level of performance. And then our ambition, obviously, is to run an
>>>>> excellent service."
>>>>>
>>>>> Mr Price said that before the pandemic the Welsh Marches line had been
>>>>> "much less utilised than it is today" and that now "we are seeing much
>>>>> higher demand on the Marches line".
>>>>>
>>>>> He said the Welsh Marches line was, in fact, "the only line that makes us
>>>>> any money".
>>>>>
>>>>> ————
>>>>>
>>>>> Given the last statement, I wonder if they couldn't have worked harder to
>>>>> find some temporary substitutes for the 175s? For example, did GWR have
>>>>> any spare Castles that had been stood down?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Crew traction knowledge is the limiting factor (three weeks conversion to
>>>> HST for drivers), plus things like stop boards etc.
>>>>
>>>> You’d probably be better hiring train plus crew from one of the railtour
>>>> companies.
>>>
>>> I wonder how many have stock compliant with the requirements for service
>>> (as opposed to charter) trains? For example,
>>> most have slam doors.
>>>
>>
>> They've been used on various special public trains organised by TOCs
>> recently, but perhaps couldn't be used on a more regular, ongoing basis.
>>
>
> I thought they had to be booked as charter trains, and couldn't just
> substitute for normal service trains?
>
> Coming back to this case, I take it that there are no spare 158s or 170s
> available? Does TPE have any surplus 185s? We know Avanti has at least a
> couple of spare 221s (which might be heading to Grand Central to cover for
> unreliable 180s).
>

I saw today that the first 221s have already transferred to GC.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:56:11 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-66244272>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Interesting extract:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After criticism from a number of the MPs, Mr Price admitted that the Welsh
>>>>>> Marches rail services have been performing "incredibly badly" due to
>>>>>> problems "which were not predicted".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This was mainly due to the temporary withdrawal of Class 175 trains for
>>>>>> safety checks after a number of fires meaning inferior trains had to be
>>>>>> used instead.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The replacements were "typically non-air conditioned", he said. "They are
>>>>>> typically trains that like to run at 75 miles an hour, not 90 miles an
>>>>>> hour, so they tend to lose time on longer distance journeys.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "As a consequence of all of those things coming together, we ran a poorer
>>>>>> quality service with less capacity that was struggling to keep to time for
>>>>>> a period of time."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Due to "global supply chain" component failures it had taken "four or five
>>>>>> months" for the company TfW leases the 175 trains from to get them back in
>>>>>> service.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "I would say we are approaching an acceptable level of performance," he
>>>>>> said.
>>>>>> "What I now need to do over the next couple of months is take that to a
>>>>>> good level of performance. And then our ambition, obviously, is to run an
>>>>>> excellent service."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mr Price said that before the pandemic the Welsh Marches line had been
>>>>>> "much less utilised than it is today" and that now "we are seeing much
>>>>>> higher demand on the Marches line".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He said the Welsh Marches line was, in fact, "the only line that makes us
>>>>>> any money".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ————
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Given the last statement, I wonder if they couldn't have worked harder to
>>>>>> find some temporary substitutes for the 175s? For example, did GWR have
>>>>>> any spare Castles that had been stood down?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Crew traction knowledge is the limiting factor (three weeks conversion to
>>>>> HST for drivers), plus things like stop boards etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> You’d probably be better hiring train plus crew from one of the railtour
>>>>> companies.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder how many have stock compliant with the requirements for service
>>>> (as opposed to charter) trains? For example,
>>>> most have slam doors.
>>>>
>>>
>>> They've been used on various special public trains organised by TOCs
>>> recently, but perhaps couldn't be used on a more regular, ongoing basis.
>>>
>>
>> I thought they had to be booked as charter trains, and couldn't just
>> substitute for normal service trains?
>>
>> Coming back to this case, I take it that there are no spare 158s or 170s
>> available? Does TPE have any surplus 185s? We know Avanti has at least a
>> couple of spare 221s (which might be heading to Grand Central to cover for
>> unreliable 180s).
>>
>
> I saw today that the first 221s have already transferred to GC.
>

Thanks, that's quicker than I expected.

Incidentally, re the idea of charter companies providing back-up trains, I
just learned that WCR now provides quick response Thunderbird locos 24x7
for the busy double-track section of the WCML. NR commissioned and is
paying for the service, and reckons that it pays for itself.

On 21/07/2023 10:30, Recliner wrote:
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:56:11 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-66244272>
>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting extract:
>>>>>
>>>>> After criticism from a number of the MPs, Mr Price admitted that the Welsh
>>>>> Marches rail services have been performing "incredibly badly" due to
>>>>> problems "which were not predicted".
>>>>>
>>>>> This was mainly due to the temporary withdrawal of Class 175 trains for
>>>>> safety checks after a number of fires meaning inferior trains had to be
>>>>> used instead.
>>>>>
>>>>> The replacements were "typically non-air conditioned", he said. "They are
>>>>> typically trains that like to run at 75 miles an hour, not 90 miles an
>>>>> hour, so they tend to lose time on longer distance journeys.
>>>>>
>>>>> "As a consequence of all of those things coming together, we ran a poorer
>>>>> quality service with less capacity that was struggling to keep to time for
>>>>> a period of time."
>>>>>
>>>>> Due to "global supply chain" component failures it had taken "four or five
>>>>> months" for the company TfW leases the 175 trains from to get them back in
>>>>> service.
>>>>>
>>>>> "I would say we are approaching an acceptable level of performance," he
>>>>> said.
>>>>> "What I now need to do over the next couple of months is take that to a
>>>>> good level of performance. And then our ambition, obviously, is to run an
>>>>> excellent service."
>>>>>
>>>>> Mr Price said that before the pandemic the Welsh Marches line had been
>>>>> "much less utilised than it is today" and that now "we are seeing much
>>>>> higher demand on the Marches line".
>>>>>
>>>>> He said the Welsh Marches line was, in fact, "the only line that makes us
>>>>> any money".
>>>>>
>>>>> ————
>>>>>
>>>>> Given the last statement, I wonder if they couldn't have worked harder to
>>>>> find some temporary substitutes for the 175s? For example, did GWR have
>>>>> any spare Castles that had been stood down?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Crew traction knowledge is the limiting factor (three weeks conversion to
>>>> HST for drivers), plus things like stop boards etc.
>>>>
>>>> You’d probably be better hiring train plus crew from one of the railtour
>>>> companies.
>>>
>>> I wonder how many have stock compliant with the requirements for service
>>> (as opposed to charter) trains? For example,
>>> most have slam doors.
>>>
>>
>> They've been used on various special public trains organised by TOCs
>> recently, but perhaps couldn't be used on a more regular, ongoing basis.
>>
>
> I thought they had to be booked as charter trains, and couldn't just
> substitute for normal service trains?
>
> Coming back to this case, I take it that there are no spare 158s or 170s
> available? Does TPE have any surplus 185s? We know Avanti has at least a
> couple of spare 221s (which might be heading to Grand Central to cover for
> unreliable 180s).

I think most of the 158s are already fully occupied in active service,
whilst 170s would have the same problem as HSTs -- lack of traction
knowledge by many of the crews, and it would take months to train enough
to run a viable service.

Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 21/07/2023 10:30, Recliner wrote:
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:56:11 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-66244272>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Interesting extract:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After criticism from a number of the MPs, Mr Price admitted that the Welsh
>>>>>> Marches rail services have been performing "incredibly badly" due to
>>>>>> problems "which were not predicted".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This was mainly due to the temporary withdrawal of Class 175 trains for
>>>>>> safety checks after a number of fires meaning inferior trains had to be
>>>>>> used instead.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The replacements were "typically non-air conditioned", he said. "They are
>>>>>> typically trains that like to run at 75 miles an hour, not 90 miles an
>>>>>> hour, so they tend to lose time on longer distance journeys.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "As a consequence of all of those things coming together, we ran a poorer
>>>>>> quality service with less capacity that was struggling to keep to time for
>>>>>> a period of time."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Due to "global supply chain" component failures it had taken "four or five
>>>>>> months" for the company TfW leases the 175 trains from to get them back in
>>>>>> service.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "I would say we are approaching an acceptable level of performance," he
>>>>>> said.
>>>>>> "What I now need to do over the next couple of months is take that to a
>>>>>> good level of performance. And then our ambition, obviously, is to run an
>>>>>> excellent service."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mr Price said that before the pandemic the Welsh Marches line had been
>>>>>> "much less utilised than it is today" and that now "we are seeing much
>>>>>> higher demand on the Marches line".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> He said the Welsh Marches line was, in fact, "the only line that makes us
>>>>>> any money".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ————
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Given the last statement, I wonder if they couldn't have worked harder to
>>>>>> find some temporary substitutes for the 175s? For example, did GWR have
>>>>>> any spare Castles that had been stood down?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Crew traction knowledge is the limiting factor (three weeks conversion to
>>>>> HST for drivers), plus things like stop boards etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> You’d probably be better hiring train plus crew from one of the railtour
>>>>> companies.
>>>>
>>>> I wonder how many have stock compliant with the requirements for service
>>>> (as opposed to charter) trains? For example,
>>>> most have slam doors.
>>>>
>>>
>>> They've been used on various special public trains organised by TOCs
>>> recently, but perhaps couldn't be used on a more regular, ongoing basis.
>>>
>>
>> I thought they had to be booked as charter trains, and couldn't just
>> substitute for normal service trains?
>>
>> Coming back to this case, I take it that there are no spare 158s or 170s
>> available? Does TPE have any surplus 185s? We know Avanti has at least a
>> couple of spare 221s (which might be heading to Grand Central to cover for
>> unreliable 180s).
>
> I think most of the 158s are already fully occupied in active service,
> whilst 170s would have the same problem as HSTs -- lack of traction
> knowledge by many of the crews, and it would take months to train enough
> to run a viable service.
>
>

TfW have only just got rid of most of their fleet of 170s; but they never
(TTBOMK) operated north of Newport. I guess retaining them (have they
re-entered service elsewhere yet?) might have released some units from
other services, but there's a danger that it might just have been 153s…

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On 22/07/2023 09:17, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
> Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 21/07/2023 10:30, Recliner wrote:
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 20 Jul 2023 12:56:11 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-66244272>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Interesting extract:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After criticism from a number of the MPs, Mr Price admitted that the Welsh
>>>>>>> Marches rail services have been performing "incredibly badly" due to
>>>>>>> problems "which were not predicted".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This was mainly due to the temporary withdrawal of Class 175 trains for
>>>>>>> safety checks after a number of fires meaning inferior trains had to be
>>>>>>> used instead.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The replacements were "typically non-air conditioned", he said. "They are
>>>>>>> typically trains that like to run at 75 miles an hour, not 90 miles an
>>>>>>> hour, so they tend to lose time on longer distance journeys.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "As a consequence of all of those things coming together, we ran a poorer
>>>>>>> quality service with less capacity that was struggling to keep to time for
>>>>>>> a period of time."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Due to "global supply chain" component failures it had taken "four or five
>>>>>>> months" for the company TfW leases the 175 trains from to get them back in
>>>>>>> service.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "I would say we are approaching an acceptable level of performance," he
>>>>>>> said.
>>>>>>> "What I now need to do over the next couple of months is take that to a
>>>>>>> good level of performance. And then our ambition, obviously, is to run an
>>>>>>> excellent service."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Mr Price said that before the pandemic the Welsh Marches line had been
>>>>>>> "much less utilised than it is today" and that now "we are seeing much
>>>>>>> higher demand on the Marches line".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> He said the Welsh Marches line was, in fact, "the only line that makes us
>>>>>>> any money".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ————
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given the last statement, I wonder if they couldn't have worked harder to
>>>>>>> find some temporary substitutes for the 175s? For example, did GWR have
>>>>>>> any spare Castles that had been stood down?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Crew traction knowledge is the limiting factor (three weeks conversion to
>>>>>> HST for drivers), plus things like stop boards etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You’d probably be better hiring train plus crew from one of the railtour
>>>>>> companies.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder how many have stock compliant with the requirements for service
>>>>> (as opposed to charter) trains? For example,
>>>>> most have slam doors.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> They've been used on various special public trains organised by TOCs
>>>> recently, but perhaps couldn't be used on a more regular, ongoing basis.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I thought they had to be booked as charter trains, and couldn't just
>>> substitute for normal service trains?
>>>
>>> Coming back to this case, I take it that there are no spare 158s or 170s
>>> available? Does TPE have any surplus 185s? We know Avanti has at least a
>>> couple of spare 221s (which might be heading to Grand Central to cover for
>>> unreliable 180s).
>>
>> I think most of the 158s are already fully occupied in active service,
>> whilst 170s would have the same problem as HSTs -- lack of traction
>> knowledge by many of the crews, and it would take months to train enough
>> to run a viable service.
>>
>>
>
> TfW have only just got rid of most of their fleet of 170s; but they never
> (TTBOMK) operated north of Newport. I guess retaining them (have they
> re-entered service elsewhere yet?) might have released some units from
> other services, but there's a danger that it might just have been 153s…

Pairs of 153s seem to be replacing some former 170 services including to
Ebbw Vale.