On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 05:49:21 +0000
Tone <email@address.com> wrote:

> It's damn difficult getting out of an upside down trolley under water.
> Takes a lot of training.

That's why there are so many of them tangled up with the bicycles
in Amsterdam's canals - I wonder who runs the training courses.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On 05/12/2021 10:23, Peter wrote:
> Tone <email@address.com> wrote in news:sohjt1$l2t$4@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 04/12/2021 21:20, Nick Odell wrote:
>>>> I think you do want inflatables - or at least them tyres filled with
>>>> foam. Trolleys don't have any suspension &, on anything less than a
>>>> perfectly flat surface, the vibrations 'll do your wrists & arms in
>>>> - if you're leaning on it for support.
>>> I'd go with inflatables myself - which automatically blow up to the
>>> size of tractor tyres on contact with water so that if it goes off
>>> meandering erratically into the canal, at least there's something
>>> floaty to hang on to until they come and fish you out.
>>>
>>> Nick
>>
>> But that would mean the trolley would invert in the water like
>> heliocopeters did when their wheel-mounted flotation gear went orft.
>>
>> It's damn difficult getting out of an upside down trolley under water.
>> Takes a lot of training.
>
> Probably best, then, if you're pushing a supermarket trolley, always to
> wear a lifejacket. I'll mention it to SWMBO.carrying a
>

Ah. You'd think so, but no! In training we were told to remove life
jackets in an inverted underwater trolley situation if they pin you to
the decking that has now become the deck-head.

OTOH carrying a whistle could be useful in the dark, if you do get out
at all at all.

Tone

Tone <email@address.com> wrote in news:soirvv$5cs$1@dont-email.me:

> On 05/12/2021 10:23, Peter wrote:
>> Tone <email@address.com> wrote in news:sohjt1$l2t$4@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 04/12/2021 21:20, Nick Odell wrote:
>>>>> I think you do want inflatables - or at least them tyres filled with
>>>>> foam. Trolleys don't have any suspension &, on anything less than a
>>>>> perfectly flat surface, the vibrations 'll do your wrists & arms in
>>>>> - if you're leaning on it for support.
>>>> I'd go with inflatables myself - which automatically blow up to the
>>>> size of tractor tyres on contact with water so that if it goes off
>>>> meandering erratically into the canal, at least there's something
>>>> floaty to hang on to until they come and fish you out.
>>>>
>>>> Nick
>>>
>>> But that would mean the trolley would invert in the water like
>>> heliocopeters did when their wheel-mounted flotation gear went orft.
>>>
>>> It's damn difficult getting out of an upside down trolley under water.
>>> Takes a lot of training.
>>
>> Probably best, then, if you're pushing a supermarket trolley, always to
>> wear a lifejacket. I'll mention it to SWMBO.
>>
>
> Ah. You'd think so, but no! In training we were told to remove life
> jackets in an inverted underwater trolley situation if they pin you to
> the decking that has now become the deck-head.
>
> OTOH carrying a whistle could be useful in the dark, if you do get out
> at all at all.

Thanks for that advice. I'd have got a clip round the ear if she got stuck
in an inverted trolley because I'd persuaded her to wear a life jacket. Who
knew that escape from a shopping trolley would be so hazardous. Methinks it
needs a risk assessment.

--
Peter
-----

On 05-Dec-21 17:13, Tone wrote:
> On 05/12/2021 10:23, Peter wrote:
>> Tone <email@address.com> wrote in news:sohjt1$l2t$4@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> On 04/12/2021 21:20, Nick Odell wrote:
>>>>> I think you do want inflatables - or at least them tyres filled with
>>>>> foam. Trolleys don't have any suspension &, on anything less than a
>>>>> perfectly flat surface, the vibrations 'll do your wrists & arms in
>>>>> - if you're leaning on it for support.
>>>> I'd go with inflatables myself - which automatically blow up to the
>>>> size of tractor tyres on contact with water so that if it goes off
>>>> meandering erratically into the canal, at least there's something
>>>> floaty to hang on to until they come and fish you out.
>>>>
>>>> Nick
>>>
>>> But that would mean the trolley would invert in the water like
>>> heliocopeters did when their wheel-mounted flotation gear went orft.
>>>
>>> It's damn difficult getting out of an upside down trolley under water.
>>> Takes a lot of training.
>>
>> Probably best, then, if you're pushing a supermarket trolley, always to
>> wear a lifejacket. I'll mention it to SWMBO.carrying a
>>
>
> Ah. You'd think so, but no! In training we were told to remove life
> jackets in an inverted underwater trolley situation if they pin you to
> the decking that has now become the deck-head.
>
> OTOH carrying a whistle could be useful in the dark, if you do get out
> at all at all.

Inverted immersion in a trolley is unlikely to provide any handy air
pockets to aid the escapee.

Maybe each trolley needs emergency breathing apparatus?

--
Sam Plusnet

On 05/12/2021 17:27, Peter wrote:
> Tone <email@address.com> wrote in news:soirvv$5cs$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 05/12/2021 10:23, Peter wrote:
>>> Tone <email@address.com> wrote in news:sohjt1$l2t$4@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>> On 04/12/2021 21:20, Nick Odell wrote:
>>>>>> I think you do want inflatables - or at least them tyres filled with
>>>>>> foam. Trolleys don't have any suspension &, on anything less than a
>>>>>> perfectly flat surface, the vibrations 'll do your wrists & arms in
>>>>>> - if you're leaning on it for support.
>>>>> I'd go with inflatables myself - which automatically blow up to the
>>>>> size of tractor tyres on contact with water so that if it goes off
>>>>> meandering erratically into the canal, at least there's something
>>>>> floaty to hang on to until they come and fish you out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nick
>>>>
>>>> But that would mean the trolley would invert in the water like
>>>> heliocopeters did when their wheel-mounted flotation gear went orft.
>>>>
>>>> It's damn difficult getting out of an upside down trolley under water.
>>>> Takes a lot of training.
>>>
>>> Probably best, then, if you're pushing a supermarket trolley, always to
>>> wear a lifejacket. I'll mention it to SWMBO.
>>>
>>
>> Ah. You'd think so, but no! In training we were told to remove life
>> jackets in an inverted underwater trolley situation if they pin you to
>> the decking that has now become the deck-head.
>>
>> OTOH carrying a whistle could be useful in the dark, if you do get out
>> at all at all.
>
> Thanks for that advice. I'd have got a clip round the ear if she got stuck
> in an inverted trolley because I'd persuaded her to wear a life jacket. Who
> knew that escape from a shopping trolley would be so hazardous. Methinks it
> needs a risk assessment.
>

But then a clip around the ear could be useful in rescue. Something for
a boat-hook operative to grab a hold of?

Depending on the size of the clip and the subsequent ringing, of course.

Tone

Tone <email@address.com> wrote in news:sojb7t$gi6$1@dont-email.me:

> On 05/12/2021 17:27, Peter wrote:
>> Thanks for that advice. I'd have got a clip round the ear if she got
>> stuck in an inverted trolley because I'd persuaded her to wear a life
>> jacket. Who knew that escape from a shopping trolley would be so
>> hazardous. Methinks it needs a risk assessment.
>>
>
> But then a clip around the ear could be useful in rescue. Something
> for a boat-hook operative to grab a hold of?
>
> Depending on the size of the clip and the subsequent ringing, of
> course.

Ouch! Whichever meaning of clip, then Ouch!

--
Peter
-----

In article <XnsADF866B0B581CFactura3476@144.76.35.252>, Peter
<myshed@prune.org.uk> on Mon, 6 Dec 2021 at 10:05:42 awoke Nicholas
from his slumbers and wrote
>Tone <email@address.com> wrote in news:sojb7t$gi6$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 05/12/2021 17:27, Peter wrote:
>>> Thanks for that advice. I'd have got a clip round the ear if she got
>>> stuck in an inverted trolley because I'd persuaded her to wear a life
>>> jacket. Who knew that escape from a shopping trolley would be so
>>> hazardous. Methinks it needs a risk assessment.
>>>
>>
>> But then a clip around the ear could be useful in rescue. Something
>> for a boat-hook operative to grab a hold of?
>>
>> Depending on the size of the clip and the subsequent ringing, of
>> course.
>
>Ouch! Whichever meaning of clip, then Ouch!
>
ECT electrode clips? Double OUCH!
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 19:42:59 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

>On 05-Dec-21 17:13, Tone wrote:
>> On 05/12/2021 10:23, Peter wrote:
>>> Tone <email@address.com> wrote in news:sohjt1$l2t$4@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>> On 04/12/2021 21:20, Nick Odell wrote:
>>>>>> I think you do want inflatables - or at least them tyres filled with
>>>>>> foam. Trolleys don't have any suspension &, on anything less than a
>>>>>> perfectly flat surface, the vibrations 'll do your wrists & arms in
>>>>>> - if you're leaning on it for support.
>>>>> I'd go with inflatables myself - which automatically blow up to the
>>>>> size of tractor tyres on contact with water so that if it goes off
>>>>> meandering erratically into the canal, at least there's something
>>>>> floaty to hang on to until they come and fish you out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nick
>>>>
>>>> But that would mean the trolley would invert in the water like
>>>> heliocopeters did when their wheel-mounted flotation gear went orft.
>>>>
>>>> It's damn difficult getting out of an upside down trolley under water.
>>>> Takes a lot of training.
>>>
>>> Probably best, then, if you're pushing a supermarket trolley, always to
>>> wear a lifejacket. I'll mention it to SWMBO.carrying a
>>>
>>
>> Ah. You'd think so, but no! In training we were told to remove life
>> jackets in an inverted underwater trolley situation if they pin you to
>> the decking that has now become the deck-head.
>>
>> OTOH carrying a whistle could be useful in the dark, if you do get out
>> at all at all.
>
>Inverted immersion in a trolley is unlikely to provide any handy air
>pockets to aid the escapee.
>
>Maybe each trolley needs emergency breathing apparatus?

No. That would be silly.

What you really need is an uninflated barrage balloon, a helium
cylinder and an attitude detector all mounted on the upper rim of the
trolley basket. As soon as the trolley starts tipping over, bouf!, up
goes the balloon, dragging the trolley upright again. I suppose there
is always the possibility of overinflating the balloon and the whole
lot floating away but some barometrically operated explosive bolts
ought to fix that.

Nick

In article <0otrqgpcbq5ea3ol3jvp1v735mfbrbl2pg@4ax.com>, Nick Odell
<nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> on Mon, 6 Dec 2021 at 11:48:56 awoke
Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 19:42:59 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>
>>On 05-Dec-21 17:13, Tone wrote:
>>> On 05/12/2021 10:23, Peter wrote:
>>>> Tone <email@address.com> wrote in news:sohjt1$l2t$4@dont-email.me:
>>>>
>>>>> On 04/12/2021 21:20, Nick Odell wrote:
>>>>>>> I think you do want inflatables - or at least them tyres filled with
>>>>>>> foam. Trolleys don't have any suspension &, on anything less than a
>>>>>>> perfectly flat surface, the vibrations 'll do your wrists & arms in
>>>>>>> - if you're leaning on it for support.
>>>>>> I'd go with inflatables myself - which automatically blow up to the
>>>>>> size of tractor tyres on contact with water so that if it goes off
>>>>>> meandering erratically into the canal, at least there's something
>>>>>> floaty to hang on to until they come and fish you out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nick
>>>>>
>>>>> But that would mean the trolley would invert in the water like
>>>>> heliocopeters did when their wheel-mounted flotation gear went orft.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's damn difficult getting out of an upside down trolley under water.
>>>>> Takes a lot of training.
>>>>
>>>> Probably best, then, if you're pushing a supermarket trolley, always to
>>>> wear a lifejacket. I'll mention it to SWMBO.carrying a
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ah. You'd think so, but no! In training we were told to remove life
>>> jackets in an inverted underwater trolley situation if they pin you to
>>> the decking that has now become the deck-head.
>>>
>>> OTOH carrying a whistle could be useful in the dark, if you do get out
>>> at all at all.
>>
>>Inverted immersion in a trolley is unlikely to provide any handy air
>>pockets to aid the escapee.
>>
>>Maybe each trolley needs emergency breathing apparatus?
>
>No. That would be silly.
>
>What you really need is an uninflated barrage balloon, a helium
>cylinder and an attitude detector all mounted on the upper rim of the
>trolley basket. As soon as the trolley starts tipping over, bouf!, up
>goes the balloon, dragging the trolley upright again. I suppose there
>is always the possibility of overinflating the balloon and the whole
>lot floating away but some barometrically operated explosive bolts
>ought to fix that.
>
I've been hit by abandoned trolleys skidding down the pavement, sideways
and, just, avoided underwater trolleys in the cut, now I will have to
worry about dodging trolleys dropped from low flying Zeppelins.
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

"Nicholas D. Richards" <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote in
news:P4PM2jA1CgrhFAUn@salmiron.com:

> In article <0otrqgpcbq5ea3ol3jvp1v735mfbrbl2pg@4ax.com>, Nick Odell
> <nick@themusicworkshop.plus.com> on Mon, 6 Dec 2021 at 11:48:56 awoke
> Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>>On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 19:42:59 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 05-Dec-21 17:13, Tone wrote:
>>>> On 05/12/2021 10:23, Peter wrote:
>>>>> Tone <email@address.com> wrote in news:sohjt1$l2t$4@dont-email.me:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 04/12/2021 21:20, Nick Odell wrote:
>>>>>>>> I think you do want inflatables - or at least them tyres filled
>>>>>>>> with foam. Trolleys don't have any suspension &, on anything
>>>>>>>> less than a perfectly flat surface, the vibrations 'll do your
>>>>>>>> wrists & arms in - if you're leaning on it for support.
>>>>>>> I'd go with inflatables myself - which automatically blow up to
>>>>>>> the size of tractor tyres on contact with water so that if it
>>>>>>> goes off meandering erratically into the canal, at least there's
>>>>>>> something floaty to hang on to until they come and fish you out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nick
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But that would mean the trolley would invert in the water like
>>>>>> heliocopeters did when their wheel-mounted flotation gear went
>>>>>> orft.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's damn difficult getting out of an upside down trolley under
>>>>>> water. Takes a lot of training.
>>>>>
>>>>> Probably best, then, if you're pushing a supermarket trolley,
>>>>> always to wear a lifejacket. I'll mention it to SWMBO.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ah. You'd think so, but no! In training we were told to remove life
>>>> jackets in an inverted underwater trolley situation if they pin you
>>>> to the decking that has now become the deck-head.
>>>>
>>>> OTOH carrying a whistle could be useful in the dark, if you do get
>>>> out at all at all.
>>>
>>>Inverted immersion in a trolley is unlikely to provide any handy air
>>>pockets to aid the escapee.
>>>
>>>Maybe each trolley needs emergency breathing apparatus?
>>
>>No. That would be silly.
>>
>>What you really need is an uninflated barrage balloon, a helium
>>cylinder and an attitude detector all mounted on the upper rim of the
>>trolley basket. As soon as the trolley starts tipping over, bouf!, up
>>goes the balloon, dragging the trolley upright again. I suppose there
>>is always the possibility of overinflating the balloon and the whole
>>lot floating away but some barometrically operated explosive bolts
>>ought to fix that.
>>
> I've been hit by abandoned trolleys skidding down the pavement,
> sideways and, just, avoided underwater trolleys in the cut, now I will
> have to worry about dodging trolleys dropped from low flying
> Zeppelins.

They should tighten up the immigration rules so that trolleys can't get
into the country. Pay the unemployed to carry our shopping instead.

--
Peter
-----

Sam Plusnet said:
> On 05-Dec-21 17:13, Tone wrote:
>> On 05/12/2021 10:23, Peter wrote:
>>> Tone <email@address.com> wrote in news:sohjt1$l2t$4@dont-email.me:
>>>
>>>> On 04/12/2021 21:20, Nick Odell wrote:
>>>>>> I think you do want inflatables - or at least them tyres filled with
>>>>>> foam. Trolleys don't have any suspension &, on anything less than a
>>>>>> perfectly flat surface, the vibrations 'll do your wrists & arms in
>>>>>> - if you're leaning on it for support.
>>>>> I'd go with inflatables myself - which automatically blow up to the
>>>>> size of tractor tyres on contact with water so that if it goes off
>>>>> meandering erratically into the canal, at least there's something
>>>>> floaty to hang on to until they come and fish you out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nick
>>>>
>>>> But that would mean the trolley would invert in the water like
>>>> heliocopeters did when their wheel-mounted flotation gear went orft.
>>>>
>>>> It's damn difficult getting out of an upside down trolley under water.
>>>> Takes a lot of training.
>>>
>>> Probably best, then, if you're pushing a supermarket trolley, always to
>>> wear a lifejacket. I'll mention it to SWMBO.carrying a
>>>
>>
>> Ah. You'd think so, but no! In training we were told to remove life
>> jackets in an inverted underwater trolley situation if they pin you to
>> the decking that has now become the deck-head.
>>
>> OTOH carrying a whistle could be useful in the dark, if you do get out
>> at all at all.
>
> Inverted immersion in a trolley is unlikely to provide any handy air
> pockets to aid the escapee.
>
> Maybe each trolley needs emergency breathing apparatus?

You could wear a jacket full of spare air ?

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

On 06/12/2021 11:48, Nick Odell wrote:
> On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 19:42:59 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>
>> On 05-Dec-21 17:13, Tone wrote:
>>> On 05/12/2021 10:23, Peter wrote:
>>>> Tone <email@address.com> wrote in news:sohjt1$l2t$4@dont-email.me:
>>>>
>>>>> On 04/12/2021 21:20, Nick Odell wrote:
>>>>>>> I think you do want inflatables - or at least them tyres filled with
>>>>>>> foam. Trolleys don't have any suspension &, on anything less than a
>>>>>>> perfectly flat surface, the vibrations 'll do your wrists & arms in
>>>>>>> - if you're leaning on it for support.
>>>>>> I'd go with inflatables myself - which automatically blow up to the
>>>>>> size of tractor tyres on contact with water so that if it goes off
>>>>>> meandering erratically into the canal, at least there's something
>>>>>> floaty to hang on to until they come and fish you out.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nick
>>>>>
>>>>> But that would mean the trolley would invert in the water like
>>>>> heliocopeters did when their wheel-mounted flotation gear went orft.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's damn difficult getting out of an upside down trolley under water.
>>>>> Takes a lot of training.
>>>>
>>>> Probably best, then, if you're pushing a supermarket trolley, always to
>>>> wear a lifejacket. I'll mention it to SWMBO.carrying a
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ah. You'd think so, but no! In training we were told to remove life
>>> jackets in an inverted underwater trolley situation if they pin you to
>>> the decking that has now become the deck-head.
>>>
>>> OTOH carrying a whistle could be useful in the dark, if you do get out
>>> at all at all.
>>
>> Inverted immersion in a trolley is unlikely to provide any handy air
>> pockets to aid the escapee.
>>
>> Maybe each trolley needs emergency breathing apparatus?
>
> No. That would be silly.
>
> What you really need is an uninflated barrage balloon, a helium
> cylinder and an attitude detector all mounted on the upper rim of the
> trolley basket. As soon as the trolley starts tipping over, bouf!, up
> goes the balloon, dragging the trolley upright again. I suppose there
> is always the possibility of overinflating the balloon and the whole
> lot floating away but some barometrically operated explosive bolts
> ought to fix that.
>
> Nick
>

That is feasibubble as long as the balloon bag is sausage shaped and
mounted vertically, otherwise the operator is liable to be smacked in
the teeth by the inflating bag which might cause them to lose grip and
fall over, the very situation the trolley is designed to prevent.

The added advantage of a vertical balloon bag is that it would have more
purchase in righting a wronged trolley. Also we might need to limit the
inflation when indoors under a low ceiling. This would require a ceiling
height detector linked to the helium cylinder release valve mechanism.

I like your explosive bolts modification. The sheer weight of them would
help to prevent the trolley from taking off.

Of course we may need a second trolley to carry the helium bockles,
pushed by an assistant.

Obviously both pusher (not pusher) and assistant pusher should be
qualified, so a trolley licence should be required. I suggest we start a
trolley handling course to help folks through the trolley driving test.

Tone

Nick Odell said:
>
> What you really need is an uninflated barrage balloon, a helium
> cylinder and an attitude detector

"I don't trust your attitude, you're pissed. If you go anywhere near
that canal you will be exterminated".

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

In article <sol3ve$27c$1@dont-email.me>, Tone <email@address.com> on
Mon, 6 Dec 2021 at 13:42:06 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>On 06/12/2021 11:48, Nick Odell wrote:
>> On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 19:42:59 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 05-Dec-21 17:13, Tone wrote:
>>>> On 05/12/2021 10:23, Peter wrote:
>>>>> Tone <email@address.com> wrote in news:sohjt1$l2t$4@dont-email.me:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 04/12/2021 21:20, Nick Odell wrote:
>>>>>>>> I think you do want inflatables - or at least them tyres filled with
>>>>>>>> foam. Trolleys don't have any suspension &, on anything less than a
>>>>>>>> perfectly flat surface, the vibrations 'll do your wrists & arms in
>>>>>>>> - if you're leaning on it for support.
>>>>>>> I'd go with inflatables myself - which automatically blow up to the
>>>>>>> size of tractor tyres on contact with water so that if it goes off
>>>>>>> meandering erratically into the canal, at least there's something
>>>>>>> floaty to hang on to until they come and fish you out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nick
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But that would mean the trolley would invert in the water like
>>>>>> heliocopeters did when their wheel-mounted flotation gear went orft.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's damn difficult getting out of an upside down trolley under water.
>>>>>> Takes a lot of training.
>>>>>
>>>>> Probably best, then, if you're pushing a supermarket trolley, always to
>>>>> wear a lifejacket. I'll mention it to SWMBO.carrying a
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ah. You'd think so, but no! In training we were told to remove life
>>>> jackets in an inverted underwater trolley situation if they pin you to
>>>> the decking that has now become the deck-head.
>>>>
>>>> OTOH carrying a whistle could be useful in the dark, if you do get out
>>>> at all at all.
>>>
>>> Inverted immersion in a trolley is unlikely to provide any handy air
>>> pockets to aid the escapee.
>>>
>>> Maybe each trolley needs emergency breathing apparatus?
>>
>> No. That would be silly.
>>
>> What you really need is an uninflated barrage balloon, a helium
>> cylinder and an attitude detector all mounted on the upper rim of the
>> trolley basket. As soon as the trolley starts tipping over, bouf!, up
>> goes the balloon, dragging the trolley upright again. I suppose there
>> is always the possibility of overinflating the balloon and the whole
>> lot floating away but some barometrically operated explosive bolts
>> ought to fix that.
>>
>> Nick
>>
>
>That is feasibubble as long as the balloon bag is sausage shaped and
>mounted vertically, otherwise the operator is liable to be smacked in
>the teeth by the inflating bag which might cause them to lose grip and
>fall over, the very situation the trolley is designed to prevent.
>
>The added advantage of a vertical balloon bag is that it would have more
>purchase in righting a wronged trolley. Also we might need to limit the
>inflation when indoors under a low ceiling. This would require a ceiling
>height detector linked to the helium cylinder release valve mechanism.
>
>I like your explosive bolts modification. The sheer weight of them would
>help to prevent the trolley from taking off.
>
>Of course we may need a second trolley to carry the helium bockles,
>pushed by an assistant.
>
>Obviously both pusher (not pusher) and assistant pusher should be
>qualified, so a trolley licence should be required. I suggest we start a
>trolley handling course to help folks through the trolley driving test.
>
Malfunction while in the lift could be interesting.
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

Tone <email@address.com> wrote in news:sol3ve$27c$1@dont-email.me:

> Of course we may need a second trolley to carry the helium bockles,
> pushed by an assistant.
>
> Obviously both pusher (not pusher) and assistant pusher should be
> qualified, so a trolley licence should be required. I suggest we start
> a trolley handling course to help folks through the trolley driving
> test.

There would need to be occasional competence tests for pushers and
assistant pushers, and a mechanism for assistant pushers to be promoted
to pusher once they reach a cerain level of competence.

--
Peter
-----

On 06/12/2021 17:14, Peter wrote:
> Tone <email@address.com> wrote in news:sol3ve$27c$1@dont-email.me:
>
>> Of course we may need a second trolley to carry the helium bockles,
>> pushed by an assistant.
>>
>> Obviously both pusher (not pusher) and assistant pusher should be
>> qualified, so a trolley licence should be required. I suggest we start
>> a trolley handling course to help folks through the trolley driving
>> test.
>
> There would need to be occasional competence tests for pushers andbbit like the old heavy goods driver and driver's mate scheme. Good idea.
> assistant pushers, and a mechanism for assistant pushers to be promoted
> to pusher once they reach a cerain level of competence.
>

A bit like the old driver's mates who eventually became drivers
themselves? Good idea.

But as trolleys become more complex, and thus the possibility of
break-down en route looms, leaving pushers possibly stranded, I suggest
we start a Federal Associated Rescue Trolleys Society, FARTS for short.

Membership would needs be compulsory at circa £50py. I'll be treasurer.

Tone

Tone <email@address.com> wrote in news:soljeh$prt$1@dont-email.me:

> On 06/12/2021 17:14, Peter wrote:
>> Tone <email@address.com> wrote in news:sol3ve$27c$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>>> Of course we may need a second trolley to carry the helium bockles,
>>> pushed by an assistant.
>>>
>>> Obviously both pusher (not pusher) and assistant pusher should be
>>> qualified, so a trolley licence should be required. I suggest we
>>> start a trolley handling course to help folks through the trolley
>>> driving test.
>>
>> There would need to be occasional competence tests for pushers
>> andbbit like the old heavy goods driver and driver's mate scheme.
>> Good idea. assistant pushers, and a mechanism for assistant pushers
>> to be promoted to pusher once they reach a cerain level of
>> competence.
>>
>
> A bit like the old driver's mates who eventually became drivers
> themselves? Good idea.
>
> But as trolleys become more complex, and thus the possibility of
> break-down en route looms, leaving pushers possibly stranded, I
> suggest we start a Federal Associated Rescue Trolleys Society, FARTS
> for short.

Good plan, Retired members could be old FARTS. I'm pretty sure I qualify.

--
Peter
-----

On 06-Dec-21 13:42, Tone wrote:
> On 06/12/2021 11:48, Nick Odell wrote:
>> On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 19:42:59 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 05-Dec-21 17:13, Tone wrote:
>>>> On 05/12/2021 10:23, Peter wrote:
>>>>> Tone <email@address.com> wrote in news:sohjt1$l2t$4@dont-email.me:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 04/12/2021 21:20, Nick Odell wrote:
>>>>>>>> I think you do want inflatables - or at least them tyres filled
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> foam. Trolleys don't have any suspension &, on anything less than a
>>>>>>>> perfectly flat surface, the vibrations 'll do your wrists & arms in
>>>>>>>> - if you're leaning on it for support.
>>>>>>> I'd go with inflatables myself - which automatically blow up to the
>>>>>>> size of tractor tyres on contact with water so that if it goes off
>>>>>>> meandering erratically into the canal, at least there's something
>>>>>>> floaty to hang on to until they come and fish you out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nick
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But that would mean the trolley would invert in the water like
>>>>>> heliocopeters did when their wheel-mounted flotation gear went orft.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's damn difficult getting out of an upside down trolley under
>>>>>> water.
>>>>>> Takes a lot of training.
>>>>>
>>>>> Probably best, then, if you're pushing a supermarket trolley,
>>>>> always to
>>>>> wear a lifejacket. I'll mention it to SWMBO.carrying a
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ah. You'd think so, but no! In training we were told to remove life
>>>> jackets in an inverted underwater trolley situation if they pin you to
>>>> the decking that has now become the deck-head.
>>>>
>>>> OTOH carrying a whistle could be useful in the dark, if you do get out
>>>> at all at all.
>>>
>>> Inverted immersion in a trolley is unlikely to provide any handy air
>>> pockets to aid the escapee.
>>>
>>> Maybe each trolley needs emergency breathing apparatus?
>>
>> No. That would be silly.
>>
>> What you really need is an uninflated barrage balloon, a helium
>> cylinder and an attitude detector all mounted on the upper rim of the
>> trolley basket. As soon as the trolley starts tipping over, bouf!, up
>> goes the balloon, dragging the trolley upright again. I suppose there
>> is always the possibility of overinflating the balloon and the whole
>> lot floating away but some barometrically operated explosive bolts
>> ought to fix that.
>>
>> Nick
>>
>
> That is feasibubble as long as the balloon bag is sausage shaped and
> mounted vertically, otherwise the operator is liable to be smacked in
> the teeth by the inflating bag which might cause them to lose grip and
> fall over, the very situation the trolley is designed to prevent.
>
> The added advantage of a vertical balloon bag is that it would have more
> purchase in righting a wronged trolley. Also we might need to limit the
> inflation when indoors under a low ceiling. This would require a ceiling
> height detector linked to the helium cylinder release valve mechanism.
>
> I like your explosive bolts modification. The sheer weight of them would
> help to prevent the trolley from taking off.
>
> Of course we may need a second trolley to carry the helium bockles,
> pushed by an assistant.
>
> Obviously both pusher (not pusher) and assistant pusher should be
> qualified, so a trolley licence should be required. I suggest we start a
> trolley handling course to help folks through the trolley driving test.

I am worried that this scheme involves large quantities of an
irreplaceable natural resource:

"World’s helium supply ‘could run out within a decade’, chemistry
professor warns"
"By having helium balloons at your birthday party you may prevent people
from having an MRI scan"
(from an Independent.co.uk article on 22/01/2019)

Far better to have a 'Tilt' mechanism which detects a potential capsize
event, which then triggers explosive charges that destroys the trolley
before it can become a hazard to others.

--
Sam Plusnet

On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 20:55:23 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

>On 06-Dec-21 13:42, Tone wrote:
>> On 06/12/2021 11:48, Nick Odell wrote:
>>> On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 19:42:59 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05-Dec-21 17:13, Tone wrote:
>>>>> On 05/12/2021 10:23, Peter wrote:
>>>>>> Tone <email@address.com> wrote in news:sohjt1$l2t$4@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 04/12/2021 21:20, Nick Odell wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I think you do want inflatables - or at least them tyres filled
>>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>> foam. Trolleys don't have any suspension &, on anything less than a
>>>>>>>>> perfectly flat surface, the vibrations 'll do your wrists & arms in
>>>>>>>>> - if you're leaning on it for support.
>>>>>>>> I'd go with inflatables myself - which automatically blow up to the
>>>>>>>> size of tractor tyres on contact with water so that if it goes off
>>>>>>>> meandering erratically into the canal, at least there's something
>>>>>>>> floaty to hang on to until they come and fish you out.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nick
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But that would mean the trolley would invert in the water like
>>>>>>> heliocopeters did when their wheel-mounted flotation gear went orft.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's damn difficult getting out of an upside down trolley under
>>>>>>> water.
>>>>>>> Takes a lot of training.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Probably best, then, if you're pushing a supermarket trolley,
>>>>>> always to
>>>>>> wear a lifejacket. I'll mention it to SWMBO.carrying a
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ah. You'd think so, but no! In training we were told to remove life
>>>>> jackets in an inverted underwater trolley situation if they pin you to
>>>>> the decking that has now become the deck-head.
>>>>>
>>>>> OTOH carrying a whistle could be useful in the dark, if you do get out
>>>>> at all at all.
>>>>
>>>> Inverted immersion in a trolley is unlikely to provide any handy air
>>>> pockets to aid the escapee.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe each trolley needs emergency breathing apparatus?
>>>
>>> No. That would be silly.
>>>
>>> What you really need is an uninflated barrage balloon, a helium
>>> cylinder and an attitude detector all mounted on the upper rim of the
>>> trolley basket. As soon as the trolley starts tipping over, bouf!, up
>>> goes the balloon, dragging the trolley upright again. I suppose there
>>> is always the possibility of overinflating the balloon and the whole
>>> lot floating away but some barometrically operated explosive bolts
>>> ought to fix that.
>>>
>>> Nick
>>>
>>
>> That is feasibubble as long as the balloon bag is sausage shaped and
>> mounted vertically, otherwise the operator is liable to be smacked in
>> the teeth by the inflating bag which might cause them to lose grip and
>> fall over, the very situation the trolley is designed to prevent.
>>
>> The added advantage of a vertical balloon bag is that it would have more
>> purchase in righting a wronged trolley. Also we might need to limit the
>> inflation when indoors under a low ceiling. This would require a ceiling
>> height detector linked to the helium cylinder release valve mechanism.
>>
>> I like your explosive bolts modification. The sheer weight of them would
>> help to prevent the trolley from taking off.
>>
>> Of course we may need a second trolley to carry the helium bockles,
>> pushed by an assistant.
>>
>> Obviously both pusher (not pusher) and assistant pusher should be
>> qualified, so a trolley licence should be required. I suggest we start a
>> trolley handling course to help folks through the trolley driving test.
>
>I am worried that this scheme involves large quantities of an
>irreplaceable natural resource:
>
>"World’s helium supply ‘could run out within a decade’, chemistry
>professor warns"
>"By having helium balloons at your birthday party you may prevent people
>from having an MRI scan"
>(from an Independent.co.uk article on 22/01/2019)
>
>Far better to have a 'Tilt' mechanism which detects a potential capsize
>event, which then triggers explosive charges that destroys the trolley
>before it can become a hazard to others.

If you are worried about helium resources maybe we could use the
currently fashionable hydrogen instead - I'm sure that Hindenburg
business was just a flash in the pan.

In the same way that there is a great plan to connect electric cars to
their charging points and use them like a giant battery to even out
domestic power demand, our gas reserves could be multiplied by
connecting the shopping trolleys to the hydrogen main when not out and
about.

Nick

On 06/12/2021 20:55, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>
> I am worried that this scheme involves large quantities of an
> irreplaceable natural resource:
>
> "World’s helium supply ‘could run out within a decade’, chemistry
> professor warns"
> "By having helium balloons at your birthday party you may prevent people
> from having an MRI scan"
> (from an Independent.co.uk article on 22/01/2019)

https://physicstoday.scitation.org/do/10.1063/PT.6.2.20200605a/full/

"Helium shortage has ended, at least for now"

But I do think it's time that party balloons were filled with hydrogen
instead, which could considerably add to the entertainment.

On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 22:45:35 +0000
Mike Fleming <mike@tauzero.co.uk> wrote:

> But I do think it's time that party balloons were filled with hydrogen
-cyanide.

> instead, which could considerably add to the entertainment.

Briefly, but the neighbours would get peace until the blue flashing
lights arrived.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/