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aus+uk / uk.comp.homebuilt / Re: UPS Advice?

SubjectAuthor
* UPS Advice?Anthony R. Gold
+* Re: UPS Advice?Jaimie Vandenbergh
|+* Re: UPS Advice?Ian
||`* Re: UPS Advice?Andy Burns
|| `- Re: UPS Advice?Jeff Gaines
|`- Re: UPS Advice?Anthony R. Gold
`* Re: UPS Advice?Theo
 `- Re: UPS Advice?newshound

1
UPS Advice?

<1v936gd44u5fkjkpldhdm27soe103n4okh@4ax.com>

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From: not-for-...@ahjg.co.uk (Anthony R. Gold)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: UPS Advice?
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 11:35:51 +0100
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 by: Anthony R. Gold - Mon, 29 Mar 2021 10:35 UTC

I'd like to put my router and WiFi onto UPS and am asking for advice. The
UPS need is very basic, just provide around 150W for a couple of hours to
sustain routers and components of mesh WiFi. My problem in the past has been
maintenance - that when aged gel batteries needed testing or replacing the
equipment was difficult to open in a confined attic space and any expired
batteries had become swollen and hard to extract. This equipment will be out
of sight and can be a total eyesore. Ideally I would buy a "naked" system
with its batteries external to any enclosure for the electronics. And maybe
the solution is to get a regular pretty box system, extract the batteries
and connect them back up with extension wiring. But suggestions would be
welcome.

Re: UPS Advice?

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From: jai...@usually.sessile.org (Jaimie Vandenbergh)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: UPS Advice?
Date: 29 Mar 2021 11:21:10 GMT
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 by: Jaimie Vandenbergh - Mon, 29 Mar 2021 11:21 UTC

On 29 Mar 2021 at 11:35:51 BST, ""Anthony R. Gold""
<not-for-mail@ahjg.co.uk> wrote:

> I'd like to put my router and WiFi onto UPS and am asking for advice. The
> UPS need is very basic, just provide around 150W for a couple of hours to
> sustain routers and components of mesh WiFi.

There's absolutely no way you need 150W for that load, they're more like
10W per item. A couple of hours is a long time in UPS terms, so best you
use the actual load to work out how many watt-hours you need.

> My problem in the past has been
> maintenance - that when aged gel batteries needed testing or replacing the
> equipment was difficult to open in a confined attic space and any expired
> batteries had become swollen and hard to extract.

After having this once and needing great care and two very large
screwdrivers, I check the trays of mine every year to look at the
batteries. The batteries have so far lasted six years per set, I'm on my
third.

> This equipment will be out
> of sight and can be a total eyesore. Ideally I would buy a "naked" system
> with its batteries external to any enclosure for the electronics. And maybe
> the solution is to get a regular pretty box system, extract the batteries
> and connect them back up with extension wiring. But suggestions would be
> welcome.

I've only seen very large UPSes have external hookups, so that does seem
practical. Do get very fat gauge wires for it though.

What I'd suggest is dropping a message to
https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/ups-trader?_trksid=p2047675.l2559 ups_trader
on eBay, who has been sorting my UPS needs for fifteen years now :)
There might be something ideal for you, or official cable extenders for
a certain model or something. Better not to piss around with high-ampage
gear.

Cheers - Jaimie
--
Sent from my SGI Onyx

Re: UPS Advice?

<KIl*ADhgy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

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From: theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: UPS Advice?
Date: 29 Mar 2021 15:00:08 +0100 (BST)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
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 by: Theo - Mon, 29 Mar 2021 14:00 UTC

Anthony R. Gold <not-for-mail@ahjg.co.uk> wrote:
> I'd like to put my router and WiFi onto UPS and am asking for advice. The
> UPS need is very basic, just provide around 150W for a couple of hours to
> sustain routers and components of mesh WiFi. My problem in the past has been
> maintenance - that when aged gel batteries needed testing or replacing the
> equipment was difficult to open in a confined attic space and any expired
> batteries had become swollen and hard to extract. This equipment will be out
> of sight and can be a total eyesore. Ideally I would buy a "naked" system
> with its batteries external to any enclosure for the electronics. And maybe
> the solution is to get a regular pretty box system, extract the batteries
> and connect them back up with extension wiring. But suggestions would be
> welcome.

I'll be reading this thread with interest, as I'm currently in the market
for something similar. In particular what I'm after is something to keep
the network and phones (say 20-30W) going during a power outage, which could
be several hours if I have turned the power off to do electrical work, or
during a storm when the wires come down.

Most UPSes seem to be designed for keeping your mega-server running for a
few minutes to shut down properly, and not intended for long term running.
In particular they seem to have really inefficient inverters, so runtime for
13W is something like 3x the runtime for 300W when it should be more like
20x.

I've been looking at building a 12V UPS that doesn't use an inverter.
There's various kit that can do this, but 'solar charge controllers' are one
- they hook up to a 12V lead acid battery and charge it from 'solar', which
could be a 12V power supply. The main thing is to make sure they have an
battery output they cut off if the battery gets too low, rather than just
driving it dead flat.

The 12ishV output could likely be fed directly to routers etc, or converted
to PoE for other things.

The annoying thing here is mounting everything, although maybe an old PC
case could be suitable. In your case it sounds like you want to mount
separately, which shouldn't be a problem with some nice fat wires.

There are some suspiciously cheap charge controllers on ebay - I need to dig
into the foibles of what's available.

Other things on my list are lithium ion UPSes:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Uninterruptible-100V-240V-8800mAH-Portable-Wireless-UPS-BLACK/dp/B07R4FGWDX
(not enough capacity for me)

enclosed 'CCTV' UPS boxes:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000969169449.html
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33028436946.html
(I'm a bit dubious of the quality of the power supply here)

DIN rail UPS modules like these:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001298118329.html
- I just came across this one and it looks a good option as it does mains to
battery charging and low voltage cutoff in one unit, and the packaging is
good. MeanWell is a well-known Taiwanese PSU brand. Being DIN rail mounted
you could put it on a wall and run cabling to whereever your batteries
lived. Seems ebay has UK sellers for this too, and the DRC-60 at Farnell.

Theo

Re: UPS Advice?

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From: ${send-d...@jusme.com (Ian)
<${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com>
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: UPS Advice?
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 14:27:04 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Ian - Mon, 29 Mar 2021 14:27 UTC

On 2021-03-29, Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:

> What I'd suggest is dropping a message to
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/ups-trader?_trksid=p2047675.l2559 ups_trader

Recommended (satisfied customer).

This thread prompted me to have a browse through his shop, as I may be in
the market for a large UPS soon. Curious about one item:

<https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Powerware-3110-550VA-pedestal-UPS-new-cells-fully-tested-with-12M-Wty/391386480783>

£10,028.38 for a 550VA doorstop?! 25 sold!!

--
Ian

"Tamahome!!!" - "Miaka!!!"

Re: UPS Advice?

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From: use...@andyburns.uk (Andy Burns)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: UPS Advice?
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2021 15:32:36 +0100
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 by: Andy Burns - Mon, 29 Mar 2021 14:32 UTC

Ian wrote:

> Curious about one item:
> <https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Powerware-3110-550VA-pedestal-UPS-new-cells-fully-tested-with-12M-Wty/391386480783>
> £10,028.38 for a 550VA doorstop?! 25 sold!!

Isn't "silly price" usually code for "out of stock but I don't want to
delete the listing"?

Re: UPS Advice?

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From: jgaines_...@yahoo.co.uk (Jeff Gaines)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: UPS Advice?
Date: 29 Mar 2021 14:53:42 GMT
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 by: Jeff Gaines - Mon, 29 Mar 2021 14:53 UTC

On 29/03/2021 in message <ice6o5Fl1rcU1@mid.individual.net> Andy Burns
wrote:

>Ian wrote:
>
>>Curious about one item:
>><https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Powerware-3110-550VA-pedestal-UPS-new-cells-fully-tested-with-12M-Wty/391386480783>
>>£10,028.38 for a 550VA doorstop?! 25 sold!!
>
>Isn't "silly price" usually code for "out of stock but I don't want to
>delete the listing"?

That's interesting - I tried to order a USB/MIDI converter recently and
the shop set a minimum order of 10, when I emailed them to query it they
said they do it while they're building them and change it when they have
stock.

--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
Every day is a good day for chicken, unless you're a chicken.

Re: UPS Advice?

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 by: newshound - Mon, 29 Mar 2021 18:02 UTC

On 29/03/2021 15:00, Theo wrote:
> Anthony R. Gold <not-for-mail@ahjg.co.uk> wrote:
>> I'd like to put my router and WiFi onto UPS and am asking for advice. The
>> UPS need is very basic, just provide around 150W for a couple of hours to
>> sustain routers and components of mesh WiFi. My problem in the past has been
>> maintenance - that when aged gel batteries needed testing or replacing the
>> equipment was difficult to open in a confined attic space and any expired
>> batteries had become swollen and hard to extract. This equipment will be out
>> of sight and can be a total eyesore. Ideally I would buy a "naked" system
>> with its batteries external to any enclosure for the electronics. And maybe
>> the solution is to get a regular pretty box system, extract the batteries
>> and connect them back up with extension wiring. But suggestions would be
>> welcome.
>
> I'll be reading this thread with interest, as I'm currently in the market
> for something similar. In particular what I'm after is something to keep
> the network and phones (say 20-30W) going during a power outage, which could
> be several hours if I have turned the power off to do electrical work, or
> during a storm when the wires come down.
>

I started thinking about this a few months ago when we were sometimes
getting two or three short power cuts a day for a week or so. However
they evidently sorted that problem.

Re: UPS Advice?

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From: not-for-...@ahjg.co.uk (Anthony R. Gold)
Newsgroups: uk.comp.homebuilt
Subject: Re: UPS Advice?
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2021 11:37:11 +0100
Organization: Microvest Limited, London
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 by: Anthony R. Gold - Tue, 30 Mar 2021 10:37 UTC

On 29 Mar 2021 11:21:10 GMT, Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org>
wrote:

> What I'd suggest is dropping a message to
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/ups-trader?_trksid=p2047675.l2559 ups_trader
> on eBay, who has been sorting my UPS needs for fifteen years now :)

Many thanks.

1
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