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aus+uk / uk.rec.cars.maintenance / Re: Classic ignition problems

SubjectAuthor
* Classic ignition problemsDave Johnson
+* Re: Classic ignition problemsTheo
|`* Re: Classic ignition problemsDave Johnson
| +* Re: Classic ignition problemsDave Plowman (News)
| |`* Re: Classic ignition problemsDave Johnson
| | +* Re: Classic ignition problemsDave Plowman (News)
| | |`* Re: Classic ignition problemsDave Johnson
| | | `* Re: Classic ignition problemsDave Plowman (News)
| | |  `* Re: Classic ignition problemsDave Johnson
| | |   `* Re: Classic ignition problemsTim+
| | |    `* Re: Classic ignition problemsFredxx
| | |     +* Re: Classic ignition problemsTim+
| | |     |`- Re: Classic ignition problemsCursitor Doom
| | |     `- Re: Classic ignition problemsDave Plowman (News)
| | `* Re: Classic ignition problemsFredxx
| |  +* Re: Classic ignition problemsPeter Hill
| |  |+- Re: Classic ignition problemsFredxx
| |  |`- Re: Classic ignition problemsDave Plowman (News)
| |  +* Re: Classic ignition problemsDave Johnson
| |  |`* Re: Classic ignition problemsDave Plowman (News)
| |  | `* Re: Classic ignition problemsFredxx
| |  |  `- Re: Classic ignition problemsDave Plowman (News)
| |  `* Re: Classic ignition problemsCursitor Doom
| |   `* Re: Classic ignition problemsFredxx
| |    `* Re: Classic ignition problemsDave Plowman (News)
| |     `- Re: Classic ignition problemsCursitor Doom
| +- Re: Classic ignition problemsnewshound
| `* Re: Classic ignition problemsalan_m
|  +- Re: Classic ignition problemsIan Jackson
|  `- Re: Classic ignition problemsDave Plowman (News)
+* Re: Classic ignition problemsDave Plowman (News)
|+- Re: Classic ignition problemsFredxx
|`- Re: Classic ignition problemsnewshound
`* Re: Classic ignition problemsAbandoned_Trolley
 `* Re: Classic ignition problemsRoger Mills
  +* Re: Classic ignition problemsnewshound
  |`* Re: Classic ignition problemsDave Plowman (News)
  | `* Re: Classic ignition problemsAJH
  |  `- Re: Classic ignition problemsDave Plowman (News)
  `- Re: Classic ignition problemsFredxx

Pages:12
Classic ignition problems

<rdn1cg5othgvtsln48bjsjr72u2docaq2k@4ax.com>

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From: davejo...@pcl.co.uk (Dave Johnson)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Classic ignition problems
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 2021 16:30:42 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 13
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 by: Dave Johnson - Wed, 9 Jun 2021 15:30 UTC

Hi,
I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
could be).
cheers,
Dave,
Dagenham UK.

Re: Classic ignition problems

<wXB*u8dmy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>

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From: theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk (Theo)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Classic ignition problems
Date: 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST)
Organization: University of Cambridge, England
Lines: 21
Message-ID: <wXB*u8dmy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>
References: <rdn1cg5othgvtsln48bjsjr72u2docaq2k@4ax.com>
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Originator: theom@chiark.greenend.org.uk ([212.13.197.229])
 by: Theo - Wed, 9 Jun 2021 17:37 UTC

Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi,
> I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
> as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
> on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
> running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
> can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
> damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
> what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
> guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
> could be).

Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor?

If it's misfiring on one cylinder that suggests the plug/coil on that
cylinder. If it has a classic distributor then suggests that or the HT
leads.

Or anything perhaps related to moisture in the air intake?

Theo

Re: Classic ignition problems

<593a5cb6c7dave@davenoise.co.uk>

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Classic ignition problems
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 12:13:59 +0100
Organization: None
Lines: 37
Message-ID: <593a5cb6c7dave@davenoise.co.uk>
References: <rdn1cg5othgvtsln48bjsjr72u2docaq2k@4ax.com>
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Thu, 10 Jun 2021 11:13 UTC

In article <rdn1cg5othgvtsln48bjsjr72u2docaq2k@4ax.com>,
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi,
> I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
> as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
> on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
> running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
> can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
> damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
> what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
> guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
> could be).
> cheers,
> Dave,
> Dagenham UK.

A few points.

Older plug leads (carbon string) can fail. Examine them carefully for
signs of cracking. Measure their resistance (they are so much per foot, so
will vary by length) But a faulty one will be very much higher per foot.
Don't forget to check the king lead too.

While the leads are off, look for signs of corrosion where they plug in.

If replacing, get a decent quality conductive plastic type. Bosch, for
example. No need to buy expensive snake oil ones.

Examine the cap and rotor arm for damage and tracking. And note many
replacements are pretty poor quality. Same applied to the ignition amp, if
it has one.

--
*Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Classic ignition problems

<s9t66n$guc$1@dont-email.me>

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From: fre...@nospam.co.uk (Fredxx)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Classic ignition problems
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 15:05:12 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 39
Message-ID: <s9t66n$guc$1@dont-email.me>
References: <rdn1cg5othgvtsln48bjsjr72u2docaq2k@4ax.com>
<593a5cb6c7dave@davenoise.co.uk>
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 by: Fredxx - Thu, 10 Jun 2021 14:05 UTC

On 10/06/2021 12:13, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <rdn1cg5othgvtsln48bjsjr72u2docaq2k@4ax.com>,
> Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
>> as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
>> on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
>> running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
>> can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
>> damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
>> what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
>> guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
>> could be).
>> cheers,
>> Dave,
>> Dagenham UK.
>
> A few points.
>
> Older plug leads (carbon string) can fail. Examine them carefully for
> signs of cracking. Measure their resistance (they are so much per foot, so
> will vary by length) But a faulty one will be very much higher per foot.
> Don't forget to check the king lead too.
>
> While the leads are off, look for signs of corrosion where they plug in.
>
> If replacing, get a decent quality conductive plastic type. Bosch, for
> example. No need to buy expensive snake oil ones.
>
> Examine the cap and rotor arm for damage and tracking. And note many
> replacements are pretty poor quality. Same applied to the ignition amp, if
> it has one.

In the 'good ole days' I would typically pull leads off spark plugs to
find the offending cylinder.

If random misfiring I would suspect mixture rather than ignition.

Re: Classic ignition problems

<pr05cg56kof3510t207jqut01uongu00dn@4ax.com>

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From: davejo...@pcl.co.uk (Dave Johnson)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Classic ignition problems
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2021 22:29:48 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 25
Message-ID: <pr05cg56kof3510t207jqut01uongu00dn@4ax.com>
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 by: Dave Johnson - Thu, 10 Jun 2021 21:29 UTC

On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

>Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
>> as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
>> on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
>> running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
>> can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
>> damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
>> what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
>> guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
>> could be).
>
>Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor?

The latter.

I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for
any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying
salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
ideas?

Re: Classic ignition problems

<593aa2bb06dave@davenoise.co.uk>

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Classic ignition problems
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 00:58:47 +0100
Organization: None
Lines: 36
Message-ID: <593aa2bb06dave@davenoise.co.uk>
References: <rdn1cg5othgvtsln48bjsjr72u2docaq2k@4ax.com> <wXB*u8dmy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> <pr05cg56kof3510t207jqut01uongu00dn@4ax.com>
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Thu, 10 Jun 2021 23:58 UTC

In article <pr05cg56kof3510t207jqut01uongu00dn@4ax.com>,
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
> On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> >Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >> I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
> >> as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
> >> on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
> >> running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
> >> can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
> >> damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
> >> what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
> >> guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
> >> could be).
> >
> >Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor?

> The latter.

> I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
> watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for
> any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying
> salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
> enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
> ideas?

I gave you the method of checking them. If using a DVM is outside your pay
grade just by new ones. ;-)

--
*I finally got my head together, now my body is falling apart.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Classic ignition problems

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From: davejo...@pcl.co.uk (Dave Johnson)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Classic ignition problems
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 09:14:32 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <mk66cgtto94vq5vr0tf103bl63at7jbmsf@4ax.com>
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 by: Dave Johnson - Fri, 11 Jun 2021 08:14 UTC

On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 00:58:47 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <pr05cg56kof3510t207jqut01uongu00dn@4ax.com>,
> Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
>> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> >Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
>> >> Hi,
>> >> I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
>> >> as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
>> >> on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
>> >> running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
>> >> can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
>> >> damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
>> >> what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
>> >> guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
>> >> could be).
>> >
>> >Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor?
>
>> The latter.
>
>> I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
>> watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for
>> any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying
>> salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
>> enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
>> ideas?
>
>I gave you the method of checking them. If using a DVM is outside your pay
>grade just by new ones. ;-)

yes, but that's not going to show up any insulation breakdown, though.
And you didn't say what values I should expect when I measure for
resistance.
I guess the reverse of the spraying salt water idea would be spraying
with WD40. Use salt water if the air is dry and warm when you test;
use WD40 when it's cold and damp. In the first instance, listen for
misfiring when you spray and in the second, listen for any misfiring
clearing up when you spray.

Re: Classic ignition problems

<593ad79069dave@davenoise.co.uk>

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Classic ignition problems
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 10:35:50 +0100
Organization: None
Lines: 33
Message-ID: <593ad79069dave@davenoise.co.uk>
References: <rdn1cg5othgvtsln48bjsjr72u2docaq2k@4ax.com> <wXB*u8dmy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> <pr05cg56kof3510t207jqut01uongu00dn@4ax.com> <593aa2bb06dave@davenoise.co.uk> <mk66cgtto94vq5vr0tf103bl63at7jbmsf@4ax.com>
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Fri, 11 Jun 2021 09:35 UTC

In article <mk66cgtto94vq5vr0tf103bl63at7jbmsf@4ax.com>,
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
> >I gave you the method of checking them. If using a DVM is outside your
> >pay grade just by new ones. ;-)

> yes, but that's not going to show up any insulation breakdown, though.

You do that by a careful visual examination. Any tracking will show. And
you also need to check the connections between the leads and cap etc for
corrosion.

> And you didn't say what values I should expect when I measure for
> resistance.

Because not all makes are the same. Somewhere about 5000 ohms per foot.
Total, including king lead and carbon brush of the order of 30k. But the
idea is to find the faulty one or ones. Which will read very much higher
per foot than the rest.

> I guess the reverse of the spraying salt water idea would be spraying
> with WD40. Use salt water if the air is dry and warm when you test;
> use WD40 when it's cold and damp. In the first instance, listen for
> misfiring when you spray and in the second, listen for any misfiring
> clearing up when you spray.

If you want to invent and test a new method, carry on. Let us know how it
succeeds.

--
*Give me ambiguity or give me something else.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Classic ignition problems

<s9vngt$1ue$1@dont-email.me>

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From: fre...@nospam.co.uk (Fredxx)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Classic ignition problems
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 14:13:01 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 55
Message-ID: <s9vngt$1ue$1@dont-email.me>
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 by: Fredxx - Fri, 11 Jun 2021 13:13 UTC

On 11/06/2021 09:14, Dave Johnson wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 00:58:47 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
> <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In article <pr05cg56kof3510t207jqut01uongu00dn@4ax.com>,
>> Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
>>> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>> Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
>>>>> as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
>>>>> on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
>>>>> running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
>>>>> can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
>>>>> damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
>>>>> what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
>>>>> guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
>>>>> could be).
>>>>
>>>> Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor?
>>
>>> The latter.
>>
>>> I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
>>> watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for
>>> any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying
>>> salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
>>> enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
>>> ideas?
>>
>> I gave you the method of checking them. If using a DVM is outside your pay
>> grade just by new ones. ;-)
>
> yes, but that's not going to show up any insulation breakdown, though.
> And you didn't say what values I should expect when I measure for
> resistance.
> I guess the reverse of the spraying salt water idea would be spraying
> with WD40. Use salt water if the air is dry and warm when you test;
> use WD40 when it's cold and damp. In the first instance, listen for
> misfiring when you spray and in the second, listen for any misfiring
> clearing up when you spray.

I think you get the impression DR is not impressed with your idea. The
idea of spraying salt water over high voltage electrics sound perverse.

The stock way to check for a faulty plug or HT lead is to manually
remove them one at a time. Ideally using decent dry gloves. If you hear
the 'tick' from the spark jumping the gap you know it's the plug or
something more serious.

If you can't decipher which cylinder it is then I would pursue the
mixture/carburation route.

Re: Classic ignition problems

<s9vrpq$1up9$1@gioia.aioe.org>

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From: skys...@yahoo.com (Peter Hill)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Classic ignition problems
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 15:26:04 +0100
Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
Lines: 72
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 by: Peter Hill - Fri, 11 Jun 2021 14:26 UTC

On 11/06/2021 14:13, Fredxx wrote:
> On 11/06/2021 09:14, Dave Johnson wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 00:58:47 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
>> <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <pr05cg56kof3510t207jqut01uongu00dn@4ax.com>,
>>>    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
>>>> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
>>>>>> as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
>>>>>> on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
>>>>>> running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run
>>>>>> properly. I
>>>>>> can only think of something from the past where I once had issues
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs.
>>>>>> But
>>>>>> what's the proper solution? Preferablya  permanent one (assuming my
>>>>>> guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
>>>>>> could be).
>>>>>
>>>>> Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor?
>>>
>>>> The latter.
>>>
>>>> I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
>>>> watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for
>>>> any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying
>>>> salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
>>>> enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
>>>> ideas?
>>>
>>> I gave you the method of checking them. If using a DVM is outside
>>> your pay
>>> grade just by new ones. ;-)
>>
>> yes, but that's not going to show up any insulation breakdown, though.
>> And you didn't say what values I should expect when I measure for
>> resistance.
>> I guess the reverse of the spraying salt water idea would be spraying
>> with WD40. Use salt water if the air is dry and warm when you test;
>> use WD40 when it's cold and damp. In the first instance, listen for
>> misfiring when you spray and in the second, listen for any misfiring
>> clearing up when you spray.
>
> I think you get the impression DR is not impressed with your idea. The
> idea of spraying salt water over high voltage electrics sound perverse.
>
> The stock way to check for a faulty plug or HT lead is to manually
> remove them one at a time. Ideally using decent dry gloves. If you hear
> the 'tick' from the spark jumping the gap you know it's the plug or
> something more serious.
>
> If you can't decipher which cylinder it is then I would pursue the
> mixture/carburation route.
>

Salt water is not a good idea. Nor is WD40 or any other can filled with
propane if there is any sign of external sparks.

My car was left at Heysham docks for a long weekend when I went to the
Manx GP with a friend. Got back to it and it wouldn't start, everything
under the bonnet was damp. Towed it out off the docks using the van.
Eventually it started firing on one or 2. Popped the bonnet and my mate
sprayed the sparks with WD40. Though the gap at the back of the bonnet I
saw the look of surprise his face as the can of WD40 turned into a
veritable flame thrower. The flame was about 6ft long and lit up the
night really well.

Re: Classic ignition problems

<s9vt9v$7h0$2@dont-email.me>

 copy mid

https://www.novabbs.com/aus+uk/article-flat.php?id=71&group=uk.rec.cars.maintenance#71

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From: fre...@nospam.co.uk (Fredxx)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Classic ignition problems
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 15:51:44 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Fredxx - Fri, 11 Jun 2021 14:51 UTC

On 11/06/2021 15:26, Peter Hill wrote:
> On 11/06/2021 14:13, Fredxx wrote:
>> On 11/06/2021 09:14, Dave Johnson wrote:
>>> On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 00:58:47 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
>>> <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <pr05cg56kof3510t207jqut01uongu00dn@4ax.com>,
>>>>    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
>>>>> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>> I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as
>>>>>>> smooth
>>>>>>> as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it
>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>> on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
>>>>>>> running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run
>>>>>>> properly. I
>>>>>>> can only think of something from the past where I once had issues
>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>> damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the
>>>>>>> plugs. But
>>>>>>> what's the proper solution? Preferablya  permanent one (assuming my
>>>>>>> guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
>>>>>>> could be).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and
>>>>>> distributor?
>>>>
>>>>> The latter.
>>>>
>>>>> I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
>>>>> watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for
>>>>> any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying
>>>>> salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
>>>>> enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
>>>>> ideas?
>>>>
>>>> I gave you the method of checking them. If using a DVM is outside
>>>> your pay
>>>> grade just by new ones. ;-)
>>>
>>> yes, but that's not going to show up any insulation breakdown, though.
>>> And you didn't say what values I should expect when I measure for
>>> resistance.
>>> I guess the reverse of the spraying salt water idea would be spraying
>>> with WD40. Use salt water if the air is dry and warm when you test;
>>> use WD40 when it's cold and damp. In the first instance, listen for
>>> misfiring when you spray and in the second, listen for any misfiring
>>> clearing up when you spray.
>>
>> I think you get the impression DR is not impressed with your idea. The
>> idea of spraying salt water over high voltage electrics sound perverse.
>>
>> The stock way to check for a faulty plug or HT lead is to manually
>> remove them one at a time. Ideally using decent dry gloves. If you
>> hear the 'tick' from the spark jumping the gap you know it's the plug
>> or something more serious.
>>
>> If you can't decipher which cylinder it is then I would pursue the
>> mixture/carburation route.
>>
>
> Salt water is not a good idea. Nor is WD40 or any other can filled with
> propane if there is any sign of external sparks.
>
> My car was left at Heysham docks for a long weekend when I went to the
> Manx GP with a friend. Got back to it and it wouldn't start, everything
> under the bonnet was damp. Towed it out off the docks using the van.
> Eventually it started firing on one or 2. Popped the bonnet and my mate
> sprayed the sparks with WD40. Though the gap at the back of the bonnet I
> saw the look of surprise his face as the can of WD40 turned into a
> veritable flame thrower. The flame was about 6ft long and lit up the
> night really well.

A good lesson for all.

I recall when cans were filled with CFCs, you didn't have the problem of
flammability.

Re: Classic ignition problems

<593af4c1ecdave@davenoise.co.uk>

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Classic ignition problems
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 15:54:43 +0100
Organization: None
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Fri, 11 Jun 2021 14:54 UTC

In article <s9vrpq$1up9$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
Peter Hill <skyshac@yahoo.com> wrote:
> My car was left at Heysham docks for a long weekend when I went to the
> Manx GP with a friend. Got back to it and it wouldn't start, everything
> under the bonnet was damp. Towed it out off the docks using the van.
> Eventually it started firing on one or 2. Popped the bonnet and my mate
> sprayed the sparks with WD40. Though the gap at the back of the bonnet I
> saw the look of surprise his face as the can of WD40 turned into a
> veritable flame thrower. The flame was about 6ft long and lit up the
> night really well.

Friend was carrying out a compression check on an early injection engine.
Which runs the fuel pump with the starter motor. Dizzy ignition.
With all the plugs out, a spark occurred somewhere and ignited the mixture
being pumped out of the spark plug holes. He's in the US, and it was 'his'
mechanic carrying out the test.

--
* I like you. You remind me of when I was young and stupid

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Classic ignition problems

<g4k7cg1argsh7hfjd8ei3i25sk6ft2er64@4ax.com>

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From: davejo...@pcl.co.uk (Dave Johnson)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Classic ignition problems
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 22:12:27 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 40
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 by: Dave Johnson - Fri, 11 Jun 2021 21:12 UTC

On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 10:35:50 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <mk66cgtto94vq5vr0tf103bl63at7jbmsf@4ax.com>,
> Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
>> >I gave you the method of checking them. If using a DVM is outside your
>> >pay grade just by new ones. ;-)
>
>> yes, but that's not going to show up any insulation breakdown, though.
>
>You do that by a careful visual examination. Any tracking will show. And
>you also need to check the connections between the leads and cap etc for
>corrosion.
>
>> And you didn't say what values I should expect when I measure for
>> resistance.
>
>Because not all makes are the same. Somewhere about 5000 ohms per foot.
>Total, including king lead and carbon brush of the order of 30k. But the
>idea is to find the faulty one or ones. Which will read very much higher
>per foot than the rest.

That's the bit I needed to know; many thanks.

>
>> I guess the reverse of the spraying salt water idea would be spraying
>> with WD40. Use salt water if the air is dry and warm when you test;
>> use WD40 when it's cold and damp. In the first instance, listen for
>> misfiring when you spray and in the second, listen for any misfiring
>> clearing up when you spray.
>
>If you want to invent and test a new method, carry on. Let us know how it
>succeeds.

The salt water spray just seems kind of wrong for obvious reasons.
However, it seems to be regularly promoted on US websites. My
variation was intended to be a kinder version of it, but unfortunately
I can't use it on my left 'ooker cos the HT leads run through grounded
metal sheaths for most of their routing and access to get a can of
WD40 in there is impossible.

Re: Classic ignition problems

<R-GdndA-D4LheV79nZ2dnUU78fnNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>

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NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 17:32:28 -0500
Subject: Re: Classic ignition problems
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
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From: newsho...@stevejqr.plus.com (newshound)
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 23:32:29 +0100
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 by: newshound - Fri, 11 Jun 2021 22:32 UTC

On 10/06/2021 22:29, Dave Johnson wrote:
> On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
>>> as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
>>> on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
>>> running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
>>> can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
>>> damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
>>> what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
>>> guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
>>> could be).
>>
>> Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor?
>
> The latter.
>
> I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
> watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for
> any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying
> salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
> enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
> ideas?
>

I've certainly done the "lightning" check successfully in the dim and
distant past on British 4 cylinder cars. I think salt water would be
asking for trouble, but WD40 makes more sense. You could also often
detect leakage by touching a lead or plug cap.

The classic way to find which cylinder was not firing (e.g. because of a
fouled plug) was to remove the plug caps one at a time and see which one
did *not* cause the tickover to collapse. Usually best to do this by
unclipping the plug caps and letting them rest on top of the plugs.

Of course if you go right back to the days *before* plug caps, where
each plug had an exposed screw terminal, you could short these out one
at a time with a screwdriver resting on the block, or with an "earthed"
screwdriver.

Re: Classic ignition problems

<R-GdndM-D4KBeF79nZ2dnUU78fmdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>

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NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 17:35:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Classic ignition problems
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
References: <rdn1cg5othgvtsln48bjsjr72u2docaq2k@4ax.com>
<593a5cb6c7dave@davenoise.co.uk>
From: newsho...@stevejqr.plus.com (newshound)
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2021 23:35:08 +0100
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 by: newshound - Fri, 11 Jun 2021 22:35 UTC

On 10/06/2021 12:13, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <rdn1cg5othgvtsln48bjsjr72u2docaq2k@4ax.com>,
> Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
>> as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
>> on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
>> running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
>> can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
>> damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
>> what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
>> guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
>> could be).
>> cheers,
>> Dave,
>> Dagenham UK.
>
> A few points.
>
> Older plug leads (carbon string) can fail. Examine them carefully for
> signs of cracking. Measure their resistance (they are so much per foot, so
> will vary by length) But a faulty one will be very much higher per foot.
> Don't forget to check the king lead too.
>
> While the leads are off, look for signs of corrosion where they plug in.
>
> If replacing, get a decent quality conductive plastic type. Bosch, for
> example. No need to buy expensive snake oil ones.
>
> Examine the cap and rotor arm for damage and tracking. And note many
> replacements are pretty poor quality. Same applied to the ignition amp, if
> it has one.
>
+1

Re: Classic ignition problems

<593b63be37dave@davenoise.co.uk>

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Classic ignition problems
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 12:06:58 +0100
Organization: None
Lines: 22
Message-ID: <593b63be37dave@davenoise.co.uk>
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Sat, 12 Jun 2021 11:06 UTC

In article <g4k7cg1argsh7hfjd8ei3i25sk6ft2er64@4ax.com>,
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
> The salt water spray just seems kind of wrong for obvious reasons.
> However, it seems to be regularly promoted on US websites. My
> variation was intended to be a kinder version of it, but unfortunately
> I can't use it on my left 'ooker cos the HT leads run through grounded
> metal sheaths for most of their routing and access to get a can of
> WD40 in there is impossible.

I'd be looking for problems where the leads enter and exit the trunking.

I know it was once common to run the HT leads in earthed metal trunking,
but to me, this is simply asking for trouble. The normal way is to keep
them a reasonable distance clear of any grounds, by the use of plastic
spacers, etc. Even more so if the ignition has been upgraded to produce a
better spark.

--
*My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people would stop dying.

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Classic ignition problems

<j9s9cg5ukh4e9jfi6qj2c7aq8jjov9r8b4@4ax.com>

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From: davejo...@pcl.co.uk (Dave Johnson)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Classic ignition problems
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 18:41:10 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Dave Johnson - Sat, 12 Jun 2021 17:41 UTC

On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 12:06:58 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <g4k7cg1argsh7hfjd8ei3i25sk6ft2er64@4ax.com>,
> Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
>> The salt water spray just seems kind of wrong for obvious reasons.
>> However, it seems to be regularly promoted on US websites. My
>> variation was intended to be a kinder version of it, but unfortunately
>> I can't use it on my left 'ooker cos the HT leads run through grounded
>> metal sheaths for most of their routing and access to get a can of
>> WD40 in there is impossible.
>
>I'd be looking for problems where the leads enter and exit the trunking.
>
>I know it was once common to run the HT leads in earthed metal trunking,
>but to me, this is simply asking for trouble. The normal way is to keep
>them a reasonable distance clear of any grounds, by the use of plastic
>spacers, etc. Even more so if the ignition has been upgraded to produce a
>better spark.

I fully agree. It does seem a daft idea just to keep things neat under
the bonnet and like you say, there will be stresses at the entry and
exit points which over time could lead to insulation breakdown I would
imagine - and right up against grounded metal to boot.

Re: Classic ignition problems

<uvs9cglmcppktpcs62qmtm4taqgkcv0d8n@4ax.com>

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From: davejo...@pcl.co.uk (Dave Johnson)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Classic ignition problems
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 19:00:09 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 29
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 by: Dave Johnson - Sat, 12 Jun 2021 18:00 UTC

On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 14:13:01 +0100, Fredxx <fredxx@nospam.co.uk>
wrote:

>I think you get the impression DR is not impressed with your idea. The
>idea of spraying salt water over high voltage electrics sound perverse.

That was NOT my idea, though! I came up with the WD40 variant (which
I"ve since binned as a result of the flamethrower post).

>
>The stock way to check for a faulty plug or HT lead is to manually
>remove them one at a time. Ideally using decent dry gloves. If you hear
>the 'tick' from the spark jumping the gap you know it's the plug or
>something more serious.

Indeed, yes. Another brainwave I've come up with is to record the
sound from the exhaust. The problem with V8 engines is that it's
possible to have them running on only 7 cylinders without knowing it.
So I thought about setting up a laptop running Audacity (or whatever
other you please sound recording app) next to each of the exhausts in
turn (2 in total in my case) and then view the graphical results
expanded in the timeline so all the pulses are visible. In this way
any regular or irregular loss of a cylinder would be easy to spot and
hopefully trace to the cylinder responsible. The addition of a piece
of tracing paper taped as a flap over the exhaust outlet would perhaps
improve the sound level and crispen-up the pulses.
Having said that, I do have a habit of coming up with overly
complicated solutions with a less than stellar success rate. But hell,
I'm not short of imagination!

Re: Classic ignition problems

<1556562441.645214678.996093.tim.downie-gmail.com@news.individual.net>

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From: tim.dow...@gmail.com (Tim+)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Classic ignition problems
Date: 12 Jun 2021 18:19:46 GMT
Lines: 35
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 by: Tim+ - Sat, 12 Jun 2021 18:19 UTC

Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 12:06:58 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
> <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In article <g4k7cg1argsh7hfjd8ei3i25sk6ft2er64@4ax.com>,
>> Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
>>> The salt water spray just seems kind of wrong for obvious reasons.
>>> However, it seems to be regularly promoted on US websites. My
>>> variation was intended to be a kinder version of it, but unfortunately
>>> I can't use it on my left 'ooker cos the HT leads run through grounded
>>> metal sheaths for most of their routing and access to get a can of
>>> WD40 in there is impossible.
>>
>> I'd be looking for problems where the leads enter and exit the trunking.
>>
>> I know it was once common to run the HT leads in earthed metal trunking,
>> but to me, this is simply asking for trouble. The normal way is to keep
>> them a reasonable distance clear of any grounds, by the use of plastic
>> spacers, etc. Even more so if the ignition has been upgraded to produce a
>> better spark.
>
> I fully agree. It does seem a daft idea just to keep things neat under
> the bonnet and like you say, there will be stresses at the entry and
> exit points which over time could lead to insulation breakdown I would
> imagine - and right up against grounded metal to boot.
>

The modern way seem to be to move to coil packs and do away with the
distributor and HT leads. If it was my car I’d be researching the cost of
converting to this.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Re: Classic ignition problems

<sa2u9t$72f$2@dont-email.me>

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From: fre...@nospam.co.uk (Fredxx)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Classic ignition problems
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 19:27:10 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 34
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 by: Fredxx - Sat, 12 Jun 2021 18:27 UTC

On 12/06/2021 19:19, Tim+ wrote:
> Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 12:06:58 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
>> <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <g4k7cg1argsh7hfjd8ei3i25sk6ft2er64@4ax.com>,
>>> Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> The salt water spray just seems kind of wrong for obvious reasons.
>>>> However, it seems to be regularly promoted on US websites. My
>>>> variation was intended to be a kinder version of it, but unfortunately
>>>> I can't use it on my left 'ooker cos the HT leads run through grounded
>>>> metal sheaths for most of their routing and access to get a can of
>>>> WD40 in there is impossible.
>>>
>>> I'd be looking for problems where the leads enter and exit the trunking.
>>>
>>> I know it was once common to run the HT leads in earthed metal trunking,
>>> but to me, this is simply asking for trouble. The normal way is to keep
>>> them a reasonable distance clear of any grounds, by the use of plastic
>>> spacers, etc. Even more so if the ignition has been upgraded to produce a
>>> better spark.
>>
>> I fully agree. It does seem a daft idea just to keep things neat under
>> the bonnet and like you say, there will be stresses at the entry and
>> exit points which over time could lead to insulation breakdown I would
>> imagine - and right up against grounded metal to boot.
>>
>
> The modern way seem to be to move to coil packs and do away with the
> distributor and HT leads. If it was my car I’d be researching the cost of
> converting to this.

On a V8 that can get expensive! There might be limited room above the
plug too.

Re: Classic ignition problems

<593b8d3881dave@davenoise.co.uk>

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From: dav...@davenoise.co.uk (Dave Plowman (News))
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Classic ignition problems
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 19:40:01 +0100
Organization: None
Lines: 34
Message-ID: <593b8d3881dave@davenoise.co.uk>
References: <rdn1cg5othgvtsln48bjsjr72u2docaq2k@4ax.com> <wXB*u8dmy@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk> <pr05cg56kof3510t207jqut01uongu00dn@4ax.com> <593aa2bb06dave@davenoise.co.uk> <mk66cgtto94vq5vr0tf103bl63at7jbmsf@4ax.com> <s9vngt$1ue$1@dont-email.me> <uvs9cglmcppktpcs62qmtm4taqgkcv0d8n@4ax.com>
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 by: Dave Plowman (News) - Sat, 12 Jun 2021 18:40 UTC

In article <uvs9cglmcppktpcs62qmtm4taqgkcv0d8n@4ax.com>,
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
> Indeed, yes. Another brainwave I've come up with is to record the
> sound from the exhaust. The problem with V8 engines is that it's
> possible to have them running on only 7 cylinders without knowing it.

A standard 90 degree V-8 has a burble due to irregular firing intervals.
But with a cylinder down, it sounds very different.

> So I thought about setting up a laptop running Audacity (or whatever
> other you please sound recording app) next to each of the exhausts in
> turn (2 in total in my case) and then view the graphical results
> expanded in the timeline so all the pulses are visible. In this way
> any regular or irregular loss of a cylinder would be easy to spot and
> hopefully trace to the cylinder responsible. The addition of a piece
> of tracing paper taped as a flap over the exhaust outlet would perhaps
> improve the sound level and crispen-up the pulses.
> Having said that, I do have a habit of coming up with overly
> complicated solutions with a less than stellar success rate. But hell,
> I'm not short of imagination!

A well designed twin pipe system will have a balance pipe between them. To
even out the extraction effect. But even without, all you've done is half
the choices.

A decent rev counter will show which cylinder is poor by unplugging each
plug in turn, and noting the engine speed. But you should be able to hear
this anyway.

--
*He's not dead - he's electroencephalographically challenged

Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Re: Classic ignition problems

<1279616149.645217655.867468.tim.downie-gmail.com@news.individual.net>

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From: tim.dow...@gmail.com (Tim+)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Classic ignition problems
Date: 12 Jun 2021 19:09:15 GMT
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 by: Tim+ - Sat, 12 Jun 2021 19:09 UTC

Fredxx <fredxx@nospam.co.uk> wrote:
> On 12/06/2021 19:19, Tim+ wrote:
>> Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 12:06:58 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
>>> <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <g4k7cg1argsh7hfjd8ei3i25sk6ft2er64@4ax.com>,
>>>> Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> The salt water spray just seems kind of wrong for obvious reasons.
>>>>> However, it seems to be regularly promoted on US websites. My
>>>>> variation was intended to be a kinder version of it, but unfortunately
>>>>> I can't use it on my left 'ooker cos the HT leads run through grounded
>>>>> metal sheaths for most of their routing and access to get a can of
>>>>> WD40 in there is impossible.
>>>>
>>>> I'd be looking for problems where the leads enter and exit the trunking.
>>>>
>>>> I know it was once common to run the HT leads in earthed metal trunking,
>>>> but to me, this is simply asking for trouble. The normal way is to keep
>>>> them a reasonable distance clear of any grounds, by the use of plastic
>>>> spacers, etc. Even more so if the ignition has been upgraded to produce a
>>>> better spark.
>>>
>>> I fully agree. It does seem a daft idea just to keep things neat under
>>> the bonnet and like you say, there will be stresses at the entry and
>>> exit points which over time could lead to insulation breakdown I would
>>> imagine - and right up against grounded metal to boot.
>>>
>>
>> The modern way seem to be to move to coil packs and do away with the
>> distributor and HT leads. If it was my car I’d be researching the cost of
>> converting to this.
>
> On a V8 that can get expensive! There might be limited room above the
> plug too.
>

Yaris packs seem to be very popular for conversions. £100 for 8 (or
thereabouts). Of course you’re gonna need other sensors and engine
management systems as well.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Re: Classic ignition problems

<sa337b$7vt$1@dont-email.me>

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From: fre...@nospam.co.uk (Fredxx)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Classic ignition problems
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 20:51:07 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Fredxx - Sat, 12 Jun 2021 19:51 UTC

On 12/06/2021 19:40, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <uvs9cglmcppktpcs62qmtm4taqgkcv0d8n@4ax.com>,
> Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
>> Indeed, yes. Another brainwave I've come up with is to record the
>> sound from the exhaust. The problem with V8 engines is that it's
>> possible to have them running on only 7 cylinders without knowing it.
>
> A standard 90 degree V-8 has a burble due to irregular firing intervals.
> But with a cylinder down, it sounds very different.
>
>> So I thought about setting up a laptop running Audacity (or whatever
>> other you please sound recording app) next to each of the exhausts in
>> turn (2 in total in my case) and then view the graphical results
>> expanded in the timeline so all the pulses are visible. In this way
>> any regular or irregular loss of a cylinder would be easy to spot and
>> hopefully trace to the cylinder responsible. The addition of a piece
>> of tracing paper taped as a flap over the exhaust outlet would perhaps
>> improve the sound level and crispen-up the pulses.
>> Having said that, I do have a habit of coming up with overly
>> complicated solutions with a less than stellar success rate. But hell,
>> I'm not short of imagination!
>
> A well designed twin pipe system will have a balance pipe between them. To
> even out the extraction effect. But even without, all you've done is half
> the choices.
>
> A decent rev counter will show which cylinder is poor by unplugging each
> plug in turn, and noting the engine speed. But you should be able to hear
> this anyway.

Funny, those were my precise thoughts too. An eye on the rev counter
should be sufficient to see the change.

I have known someone have a faulty ignition lead on his Rover V8 and not
know about it for months. He was an artist whose job was to airbrush
celebrity photos.

Re: Classic ignition problems

<5m4acgdt9kao2hfskl92hneiovavnti3r8@4ax.com>

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From: cd...@nowhere.com (Cursitor Doom)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Classic ignition problems
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 21:04:08 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Cursitor Doom - Sat, 12 Jun 2021 20:04 UTC

On 12 Jun 2021 19:09:15 GMT, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:

>Fredxx <fredxx@nospam.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 12/06/2021 19:19, Tim+ wrote:
>>> Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 12:06:58 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
>>>> <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In article <g4k7cg1argsh7hfjd8ei3i25sk6ft2er64@4ax.com>,
>>>>> Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> The salt water spray just seems kind of wrong for obvious reasons.
>>>>>> However, it seems to be regularly promoted on US websites. My
>>>>>> variation was intended to be a kinder version of it, but unfortunately
>>>>>> I can't use it on my left 'ooker cos the HT leads run through grounded
>>>>>> metal sheaths for most of their routing and access to get a can of
>>>>>> WD40 in there is impossible.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'd be looking for problems where the leads enter and exit the trunking.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know it was once common to run the HT leads in earthed metal trunking,
>>>>> but to me, this is simply asking for trouble. The normal way is to keep
>>>>> them a reasonable distance clear of any grounds, by the use of plastic
>>>>> spacers, etc. Even more so if the ignition has been upgraded to produce a
>>>>> better spark.
>>>>
>>>> I fully agree. It does seem a daft idea just to keep things neat under
>>>> the bonnet and like you say, there will be stresses at the entry and
>>>> exit points which over time could lead to insulation breakdown I would
>>>> imagine - and right up against grounded metal to boot.
>>>>
>>>
>>> The modern way seem to be to move to coil packs and do away with the
>>> distributor and HT leads. If it was my car I’d be researching the cost of
>>> converting to this.
>>
>> On a V8 that can get expensive! There might be limited room above the
>> plug too.
>>
>
>Yaris packs seem to be very popular for conversions. £100 for 8 (or
>thereabouts). Of course you’re gonna need other sensors and engine
>management systems as well.

Those plug-top coils don't have a very long service life, though. They
tend to fail far more frequently than the single, distantly-placed
coils. The cost of that could really add up.

Re: Classic ignition problems

<ma5acgps5vfqtdoakbceo6s5v4m3tc87oj@4ax.com>

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From: cd...@nowhere.com (Cursitor Doom)
Newsgroups: uk.rec.cars.maintenance
Subject: Re: Classic ignition problems
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 2021 21:16:17 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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 by: Cursitor Doom - Sat, 12 Jun 2021 20:16 UTC

On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 14:13:01 +0100, Fredxx <fredxx@nospam.co.uk>
wrote:

>On 11/06/2021 09:14, Dave Johnson wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 00:58:47 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
>> <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In article <pr05cg56kof3510t207jqut01uongu00dn@4ax.com>,
>>> Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
>>>> <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
>>>>>> as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
>>>>>> on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
>>>>>> running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
>>>>>> can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
>>>>>> damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
>>>>>> what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
>>>>>> guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
>>>>>> could be).
>>>>>
>>>>> Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor?
>>>
>>>> The latter.
>>>
>>>> I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
>>>> watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for
>>>> any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying
>>>> salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
>>>> enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
>>>> ideas?
>>>
>>> I gave you the method of checking them. If using a DVM is outside your pay
>>> grade just by new ones. ;-)
>>
>> yes, but that's not going to show up any insulation breakdown, though.
>> And you didn't say what values I should expect when I measure for
>> resistance.
>> I guess the reverse of the spraying salt water idea would be spraying
>> with WD40. Use salt water if the air is dry and warm when you test;
>> use WD40 when it's cold and damp. In the first instance, listen for
>> misfiring when you spray and in the second, listen for any misfiring
>> clearing up when you spray.
>
>I think you get the impression DR is not impressed with your idea. The
>idea of spraying salt water over high voltage electrics sound perverse.
>
>The stock way to check for a faulty plug or HT lead is to manually
>remove them one at a time. Ideally using decent dry gloves.

Or no gloves at all. Then if you cop a belt you'll know the
insulation's duff on that lead/cap.

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