Scotrail's experimental withdrawal of Anytime (aka 'peak') fares, which
they insist means "cheaper travel all day long" isn't quite true,
because they are also withdrawing Super-off-peak fares.

I'm not sure what's happening about season tickets, which I always
understood were calculated by an algorithm based on the Anytime fare
(which will be at the very least unpublished). It's possible therefore
some flows will be cheaper with multiple day-returns than a weekly
season.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> Scotrail's experimental withdrawal of Anytime (aka 'peak') fares, which
> they insist means "cheaper travel all day long" isn't quite true,
> because they are also withdrawing Super-off-peak fares.
>
> I'm not sure what's happening about season tickets, which I always
> understood were calculated by an algorithm based on the Anytime fare
> (which will be at the very least unpublished). It's possible therefore
> some flows will be cheaper with multiple day-returns than a weekly
> season.

Glasgow - Stirling weekly season is just over £60 in mid October. All day
Off peak day return £9.60
I suppose there might be people who make 7 of more trips in a week, but
yes, season tickets will be poor value for most.

On 17/09/2023 08:02, Tweed wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> Scotrail's experimental withdrawal of Anytime (aka 'peak') fares, which
>> they insist means "cheaper travel all day long" isn't quite true,
>> because they are also withdrawing Super-off-peak fares.
>>
>> I'm not sure what's happening about season tickets, which I always
>> understood were calculated by an algorithm based on the Anytime fare
>> (which will be at the very least unpublished). It's possible therefore
>> some flows will be cheaper with multiple day-returns than a weekly
>> season.
>
> Glasgow - Stirling weekly season is just over £60 in mid October. All day
> Off peak day return £9.60
> I suppose there might be people who make 7 of more trips in a week, but
> yes, season tickets will be poor value for most.

Are stored journey tickets still available? 40+ years ago when I
commuted in the west of Scotland, I bought a 50 journey ticket. No
expiry date.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> Scotrail's experimental withdrawal of Anytime (aka 'peak') fares, which
> they insist means "cheaper travel all day long" isn't quite true,
> because they are also withdrawing Super-off-peak fares.
>
> I'm not sure what's happening about season tickets, which I always
> understood were calculated by an algorithm based on the Anytime fare
> (which will be at the very least unpublished). It's possible therefore
> some flows will be cheaper with multiple day-returns than a weekly
> season.

According to the BBC’s report, “Kids for a Quid tickets will be valid all
day, every day, and ***season ticket holders will be able to apply for a
refund.***” [my emphasis]

<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66795296>

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

In message <ue9g16$1ou1p$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:32:38 on Mon, 18 Sep
2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> Scotrail's experimental withdrawal of Anytime (aka 'peak') fares, which
>> they insist means "cheaper travel all day long" isn't quite true,
>> because they are also withdrawing Super-off-peak fares.
>>
>> I'm not sure what's happening about season tickets, which I always
>> understood were calculated by an algorithm based on the Anytime fare
>> (which will be at the very least unpublished). It's possible therefore
>> some flows will be cheaper with multiple day-returns than a weekly
>> season.
>
>According to the BBC’s report, “Kids for a Quid tickets will be valid all
>day, every day, and ***season ticket holders will be able to apply for a
>refund.***” [my emphasis]

As long as it's a refund which reflects the circumstances, eg halfway
through a year get 50% back, not less because they subtract the cost of
six monthly seasons.

><https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66795296>
>
>Sam
>

--
Roland Perry

In message <asRhRTAKjEClFAvs@perry.uk>, at 13:55:38 on Mon, 18 Sep 2023,
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> remarked:
>In message <ue9g16$1ou1p$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:32:38 on Mon, 18 Sep
>2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>> Scotrail's experimental withdrawal of Anytime (aka 'peak') fares, which
>>> they insist means "cheaper travel all day long" isn't quite true,
>>> because they are also withdrawing Super-off-peak fares.
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what's happening about season tickets, which I always
>>> understood were calculated by an algorithm based on the Anytime fare
>>> (which will be at the very least unpublished). It's possible therefore
>>> some flows will be cheaper with multiple day-returns than a weekly
>>> season.
>>
>>According to the BBC’s report, “Kids for a Quid tickets will be valid all
>>day, every day, and ***season ticket holders will be able to apply for a
>>refund.***” [my emphasis]
>
>As long as it's a refund which reflects the circumstances, eg halfway
>through a year get 50% back, not less because they subtract the cost of
>six monthly seasons.
>
>><https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66795296>

"But Scotrail's costs could rise too, if more shoppers choose to travel
early, and Scotrail has to put on longer trains to cope."

Has any TOC ever done that, rather than expect passengers to breath in
when trying to board oversubscribed trains?

--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
> In message <asRhRTAKjEClFAvs@perry.uk>, at 13:55:38 on Mon, 18 Sep 2023,
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> remarked:
>> In message <ue9g16$1ou1p$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:32:38 on Mon, 18 Sep
>> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>> Scotrail's experimental withdrawal of Anytime (aka 'peak') fares, which
>>>> they insist means "cheaper travel all day long" isn't quite true,
>>>> because they are also withdrawing Super-off-peak fares.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure what's happening about season tickets, which I always
>>>> understood were calculated by an algorithm based on the Anytime fare
>>>> (which will be at the very least unpublished). It's possible therefore
>>>> some flows will be cheaper with multiple day-returns than a weekly
>>>> season.
>>>
>>> According to the BBC’s report, “Kids for a Quid tickets will be valid all
>>> day, every day, and ***season ticket holders will be able to apply for a
>>> refund.***” [my emphasis]
>>
>> As long as it's a refund which reflects the circumstances, eg halfway
>> through a year get 50% back, not less because they subtract the cost of
>> six monthly seasons.
>>
>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66795296>
>
> "But Scotrail's costs could rise too, if more shoppers choose to travel
> early, and Scotrail has to put on longer trains to cope."
>
> Has any TOC ever done that, rather than expect passengers to breath in
> when trying to board oversubscribed trains?
>

This is what Scotrail state they are doing re stock:

https://www.scotrail.co.uk/off-peak-fares-all-day-long

We will have every available carriage out on the network. For the start of
the trial we will have seven or eight carriage services operating during
traditional peak hours on the Edinburgh-Glasgow via Falkirk High route, and
additional carriages between Airdrie and Balloch, and on the Argyle Line.
We do not have any more diesel trains to increase capacity on the routes
where they operate, for example between Glasgow/Edinburgh and
Aberdeen/Dundee/Inverness.

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <asRhRTAKjEClFAvs@perry.uk>, at 13:55:38 on Mon, 18 Sep 2023,
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> remarked:
>>> In message <ue9g16$1ou1p$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:32:38 on Mon, 18 Sep
>>> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Scotrail's experimental withdrawal of Anytime (aka 'peak') fares, which
>>>>> they insist means "cheaper travel all day long" isn't quite true,
>>>>> because they are also withdrawing Super-off-peak fares.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure what's happening about season tickets, which I always
>>>>> understood were calculated by an algorithm based on the Anytime fare
>>>>> (which will be at the very least unpublished). It's possible therefore
>>>>> some flows will be cheaper with multiple day-returns than a weekly
>>>>> season.
>>>>
>>>> According to the BBC’s report, “Kids for a Quid tickets will be valid all
>>>> day, every day, and ***season ticket holders will be able to apply for a
>>>> refund.***” [my emphasis]
>>>
>>> As long as it's a refund which reflects the circumstances, eg halfway
>>> through a year get 50% back, not less because they subtract the cost of
>>> six monthly seasons.
>>>
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66795296>
>>
>> "But Scotrail's costs could rise too, if more shoppers choose to travel
>> early, and Scotrail has to put on longer trains to cope."
>>
>> Has any TOC ever done that, rather than expect passengers to breath in
>> when trying to board oversubscribed trains?
>>
>
> This is what Scotrail state they are doing re stock:
>
> https://www.scotrail.co.uk/off-peak-fares-all-day-long
>
> We will have every available carriage out on the network. For the start of
> the trial we will have seven or eight carriage services operating during
> traditional peak hours on the Edinburgh-Glasgow via Falkirk High route, and
> additional carriages between Airdrie and Balloch, and on the Argyle Line.
> We do not have any more diesel trains to increase capacity on the routes
> where they operate, for example between Glasgow/Edinburgh and
> Aberdeen/Dundee/Inverness.

AFAICT at a quick scan I don’t think ScotRail have enough Mk3s to make all
their Inter7City[1] sets up to 5 carriages.

[1] Since Dunfermline’s promotion it should be Inter8City.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

In message <uebcb7$27d3n$1@dont-email.me>, at 05:41:59 on Tue, 19 Sep
2023, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>> In message <asRhRTAKjEClFAvs@perry.uk>, at 13:55:38 on Mon, 18 Sep 2023,
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> remarked:
>>> In message <ue9g16$1ou1p$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:32:38 on Mon, 18 Sep
>>> 2023, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
>>>>> Scotrail's experimental withdrawal of Anytime (aka 'peak') fares, which
>>>>> they insist means "cheaper travel all day long" isn't quite true,
>>>>> because they are also withdrawing Super-off-peak fares.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure what's happening about season tickets, which I always
>>>>> understood were calculated by an algorithm based on the Anytime fare
>>>>> (which will be at the very least unpublished). It's possible therefore
>>>>> some flows will be cheaper with multiple day-returns than a weekly
>>>>> season.
>>>>
>>>> According to the BBC’s report, “Kids for a Quid tickets will be
>>>>valid all
>>>> day, every day, and ***season ticket holders will be able to apply for a
>>>> refund.***” [my emphasis]
>>>
>>> As long as it's a refund which reflects the circumstances, eg halfway
>>> through a year get 50% back, not less because they subtract the cost of
>>> six monthly seasons.
>>>
>>>> <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66795296>
>>
>> "But Scotrail's costs could rise too, if more shoppers choose to travel
>> early, and Scotrail has to put on longer trains to cope."
>>
>> Has any TOC ever done that, rather than expect passengers to breath in
>> when trying to board oversubscribed trains?
>>
>
>This is what Scotrail state they are doing re stock:
>
>https://www.scotrail.co.uk/off-peak-fares-all-day-long
>
>We will have every available carriage out on the network. For the start of
>the trial we will have seven or eight carriage services operating during
>traditional peak hours on the Edinburgh-Glasgow via Falkirk High route, and
>additional carriages between Airdrie and Balloch, and on the Argyle Line.
>We do not have any more diesel trains to increase capacity
************************ Thought so **********************
>on the routes where they operate, for example between Glasgow/Edinburgh
>and Aberdeen/Dundee/Inverness.

--
Roland Perry